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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/6/2006 9:02:33 PM EDT
Wasn't the plan to move good jobs (you know the ones Americans can't get - the kind with benefits and such) to MEXICO to help their economy so they wouldn't come here illegally?

So WTF is with this amnesty bullshit?

So now, not only is almost every TV a hunk of shit (because they are now ALL assembled in Mexico) we are gonna amnesty about 5 million illegals who will then be able to get good jobs HERE in the US (you are high on crack if you think they will still do lawns and agriculture work - that is for "illegals" who will soon show up to do the jobs "former illegals" will be unwilling to do).

So since NAFTA isn't fucking working, can we end that?

Maybe we can tag it on the Amnesty Bill as a last minute amendment.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:04:31 PM EDT
NAFTA was designed to bring low-cost goods to Americans.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:09:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:
NAFTA was designed to bring low-cost goods to Americans.



Why? We didn't have Wal Mart before NAFTA?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:10:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:12:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Wasn't the plan to move good jobs (you know the ones Americans can't get - the kind with benefits and such) to MEXICO to help their economy so they wouldn't come here illegally?

So WTF is with this amnesty bullshit?

So now, not only is almost every TV a hunk of shit (because they are now ALL assembled in Mexico) we are gonna amnesty about 5 million illegals who will then be able to get good jobs HERE in the US (you are high on crack if you think they will still do lawns and agriculture work - that is for "illegals" who will soon show up to do the jobs "former illegals" will be unwilling to do).

So since NAFTA isn't fucking working, can we end that?

Maybe we can tag it on the Amnesty Bill as a last minute amendment.



Hey! You're not supposed to remember that....

MOVE ALONG....NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:12:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By krpind:
NAFTA was designed to bring low-cost goods to Americans.



Why? We didn't have Wal Mart before NAFTA?



Why?

Hell you know why. Americans DEMAND the lowest cost provider of whatever it is they want.

Hell you sell guns......it is the PERFECT example of the mindset of lowest price provider gets the deal.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:15:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By krpind:
NAFTA was designed to bring low-cost goods to Americans.



Why? We didn't have Wal Mart before NAFTA?



Why?

Hell you know why. Americans DEMAND the lowest cost provider of whatever it is they want.

Hell you sell guns......it is the PERFECT example of the mindset of lowest price provider gets the deal.



We already HAD cheap shit before NAFTA. We were getting cheap shit made in China at Wal Mart.

I haven't seen the price of ANYTHING drop since NAFTA.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:21:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 9:23:04 PM EDT by krpind]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
We already HAD cheap shit before NAFTA. We were getting cheap shit made in China at Wal Mart.

I haven't seen the price of ANYTHING drop since NAFTA.



Damn, I'm too tired to argue this too long, but you should know that a LOT of stuff might not have gone down, but the prices haven't gone up as much as they would have.

Example.

Pressure Washers....which I sell everyday.

15 years ago Excell started selling a coldwater unit to Sams. It sold for $500.

Today that same unit is about $500. The reason is NAFTA. A Honda 5.5 hp engine costs me about $300 bucks. 30% of that cost is a tariff.
If that motor comes into the US with a pump attached it is tariff free. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to sell for less does it?

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:37:26 PM EDT
Hear that giant suckin sond?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:47:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Hear that giant suckin sond?



Why Yes, Yes I do.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:36:53 AM EDT
Three reasons NAFTA hasn't helped Mexico, and many illegals come here.

1. Our economy has grown rapidly, thus a huge demand for labor. Mexican economy has not grown rapidly.

2. Mexico is incredibly corrupt, and does a terrible job educating people especially poor people. So they do not have the skills they need to compete with China. As Turd World nations go, Mexico is about the richest in the world.

3. China is so much cheaper, has better infrastructure, and a better trained workforce so a lot of the manufacturing that might end up in Mexico otherwise is now in China.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:54:21 AM EDT
I tell you what is going to happen:

Amnesty will be given because it will be profitable for big biz and it make the libtard feel warm and fuzzy inside.

It will make the middle class weaker, becuase our wages will be undercut by an influx of cheap labor that sends back their money to Mexico.

Our crime will go up

The division of wealth will grow farther apart.

Unless your uber-rich, expect your class standing to go down. IE: if you are middle class now, in a few years you will be lower middle class.

I order to be competitive in the workplace you will have to know Spanish.

You will have to have a Masters degree or a PHD in order to get a good paying job because the immigrants are going to get a free ride to college thru affirmitive action. (so your taxes will be used to keep you down at the poverty level in order to support the immigranes on entitlement programs.)

You won't be able to afford a home and you will be force to live paycheck to paycheck

A new slave class will be prevelent. This slave class will work at minimum wage levels and will need two earners just to have a one room appartment. Of course you won't be a real slave, because you will have "freedom" but you will not decide how your money is spent. The elitist upper class will control how your over taxed incomes will be allocated to "the people."
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:07:44 AM EDT
I visited Monterrey a couple years ago and noted huge factory after huge factory on the drive from the airport. Most everyone had a car and cell phone, and there was a definite middle class there. Additionally there were Wal-marts, Home Depots, Chili's, and numerous other examples of American corporate generica.

NAFTA has also made it easier for my company (retail) to do business inside Mexico.

Though you might not be able to tell it from the frothing waves of illegals lapping at the border, we are successfully -- if slowly -- exporting American capitalism and the middle class way of life to Mexico. Not saying that NAFTA doesn't have its problems.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:10:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Hear that giant suckin sond?



Yeah, its coming from under my desk.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:23:25 AM EDT
Ironic.
Last year it was all about out-sourcing, so why do Mexicans risk their lives if all American jobs are moving to India & China?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:28:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SS109:
Ironic.
Last year it was all about out-sourcing, so why do Mexicans risk their lives if all American jobs are moving to India & China?



To flee the shithole that THEY made of their country.

Our country IS better. They can live better here ILLEGALLY than they can in their own shithole LEGALLY. And NOTHING anyone does is going to fix that because they won't fix THEIR country.

They will just come here and fuck up ours.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:38:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By SS109:
Ironic.
Last year it was all about out-sourcing, so why do Mexicans risk their lives if all American jobs are moving to India & China?



To flee the shithole that THEY made of their country.

Our country IS better. They can live better here ILLEGALLY than they can in their own shithole LEGALLY. And NOTHING anyone does is going to fix that because they won't fix THEIR country.

They will just come here and fuck up ours.



More irony. Their country is fucked! So they come here and want America to give California, New Mexico, Arizona & Texas back to Mexico so Vicente Fox can ruin those states too.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:42:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:
NAFTA was designed to bring low-cost goods to Americans.



...by the 'giant sucking sound' caused when all the American Manufacturers brought their plants to Mexico. Trouble is, the American Manufacturers sold out America: they took the money made from moving their lines down there and KEPT it...they did not pass the savings onto us. So, we made it easier for them to leave, gave them cheap labor, allowed them to duck out on tax responsibilities to the communities they left and they still charged us more money.

Great deal for America, right.
Fark......
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:45:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
I visited Monterrey a couple years ago and noted huge factory after huge factory on the drive from the airport. Most everyone had a car and cell phone, and there was a definite middle class there. Additionally there were Wal-marts, Home Depots, Chili's, and numerous other examples of American corporate generica.

NAFTA has also made it easier for my company (retail) to do business inside Mexico.

Though you might not be able to tell it from the frothing waves of illegals lapping at the border, we are successfully -- if slowly -- exporting American capitalism and the middle class way of life to Mexico. Not saying that NAFTA doesn't have its problems.



Problems??? Please...Entire communities paid for that frikkin mistake. And we're still paying as a nation. Remember, jobs leave, we gotta support those without work with subsidies. IMHO companies like Texas Instruments, Eureka, the big 3 and more should be forced to pay back the tax breaks they enjoyed for many years on our soil AND make sure their displaced and replaced American workers get another job/training before they are allowed to change a product line from "Made in the USA" to "Made in Mexico."
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:46:40 AM EDT
I remember walking into Wal-Mart and seeing hundreds of American flags hanging everywhere and seeing signs that said, "We at Wal-Mart take pride in offering American-made products."

LOL.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:50:20 AM EDT
Interestingly, Fox is becoming interested in helping with our illegal immigration problem. It seems the Mexican economy won't be able to sustain its growth without a larger labor pool.

Is that growth due to NAFTA? Who knows, but what else is interesting is despite some 11 or 12 million illegals our unemployment rate is at 4.7%.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:51:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Wasn't the plan to move good jobs (you know the ones Americans can't get - the kind with benefits and such) to MEXICO to help their economy so they wouldn't come here illegally?

So WTF is with this amnesty bullshit?

So now, not only is almost every TV a hunk of shit (because they are now ALL assembled in Mexico) we are gonna amnesty about 5 million illegals who will then be able to get good jobs HERE in the US (you are high on crack if you think they will still do lawns and agriculture work - that is for "illegals" who will soon show up to do the jobs "former illegals" will be unwilling to do).

So since NAFTA isn't fucking working, can we end that?

Maybe we can tag it on the Amnesty Bill as a last minute amendment.



Not only that Steyr but NAFTA also made provisions for special, easy statuses ("visa") that cost very little. The TN-1 and TN-2 statuses (TN is for Trade NAFTA) are available to Canadian and Mexican nationals respectively. All you had to do was have the appropriate credentials, have a letter from your future American employer and pay $50 at the port of entry when you came through. I have been on a TN-1 several times.
The TN statuses are non-resident statuses so you cannot transition to a green card from them. They are the "guest worker" program.



Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:01:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 9:09:35 AM EDT by nightstalker]
Every time I read a story here or anywhere about someone legally becoming a citizen I'm more incensed at this blatent disregard of the law by our Congress. They're perpetrating a fraud and have been since 1965. I'm only hoping that they just pass the enforcement part of the legislation they're considering. I don't think they can get a tough law past the media AND it's cohorts in Congress.

These NAFTA Visa programs are just legal cover for businesses to hire foreign workers at lower wages. Otherwise, I'm assuming the businesses will threaten to move to another State or out of the country altogether.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:05:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PlaymoreMinds:

Problems??? Please...Entire communities paid for that frikkin mistake. And we're still paying as a nation. Remember, jobs leave, we gotta support those without work with subsidies. IMHO companies like Texas Instruments, Eureka, the big 3 and more should be forced to pay back the tax breaks they enjoyed for many years on our soil AND make sure their displaced and replaced American workers get another job/training before they are allowed to change a product line from "Made in the USA" to "Made in Mexico."



I agree.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:16:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
Every time I read a story here or anywhere about someone legally becoming a citizen I'm more incensed at this blatent disregard of the law by our Congress. They're perpetrating a fraud and have been since 1965. I'm only hoping that they just pass the enforcement part of the legislation they're considering. I don't think they can get a tough law past the media AND it's cohorts in Congress.

These NAFTA Visa programs are just legal cover for businesses to hire foreign workers at lower wages. Otherwise, I'm assuming the businesses will threaten to move to another State or out of the country altogether.



Passing it is one thing... actually enforcing it is another enchilada...
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:29:33 AM EDT
The only way to fix the illegal Mexican immigration problem(actually there are many other illegal aliens in the USofA, but the Mexicans are the most blatant), lies in Mexico. Why are they people coming to the USofA? Short answer, they want a better life for themselves and their family. There is nearly zero economic oppurtunities in Mexico, ie if you are born poor, you will pretty much die poor. The problem is that the Mexican government is not willing to cede any power or wealth. In Mexico, 20% of the people control nearly 80% of the wealth. The Mexican govt has pushed their problems their govt created into the USofA.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:19:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:27:03 AM EDT by TRW]
I guess that was the premise.

I never agreed with NAFTA anyway and don't see why we (America) should volunteer to take it up the ass everytime a country somewhere in the world has an economic problem.

They should have built the damn wall after the amnesty of 86. If they had, we wouldn't have needed NAFTA, but I guess all the politicians went back to their life of greed, power, and corruption; thinking that the sheeple were well placated for at least the next 20 years.

The people should not fear the government, the Government should fear the people!!

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:25:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By go3:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Hear that giant suckin sond?



Yeah, its coming from under my desk.





That was a good one!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:35:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By go3:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Hear that giant suckin sond?



Yeah, its coming from under my desk.



That you, Mr. Clinton?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:59:46 AM EDT


Not happy with the way NAFTA turned out? Wait till we get the FTAA that the administration is pushing...

Dunno what the FTAA is? Click here.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:46:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
The only way to fix the illegal Mexican immigration problem(actually there are many other illegal aliens in the USofA, but the Mexicans are the most blatant), lies in Mexico. Why are they people coming to the USofA? Short answer, they want a better life for themselves and their family. There is nearly zero economic oppurtunities in Mexico, ie if you are born poor, you will pretty much die poor. The problem is that the Mexican government is not willing to cede any power or wealth. In Mexico, 20% of the people control nearly 80% of the wealth. The Mexican govt has pushed their problems their govt created into the USofA.



And the ONLY problem with that is you CAN'T fix Mexico.

It sucks, it always has sucked and it always will suck.

The problem won't be fixed by letting them all come here and make THIS COUNTRY suck.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:49:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:
NAFTA was designed to bring low-cost goods to Americans.



So, it should have included China, not Mexico.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:52:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
2. Mexico is incredibly corrupt, and does a terrible job educating people especially poor people. So they do not have the skills they need to compete with China. As Turd World nations go, Mexico is about the richest in the world.



The Chinese have a different ethic in regard to education that you don't see in Mexico.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:19:20 PM EDT
The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 was supposed to cure the illegal immigration problem, too.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:23:45 PM EDT
Shit, that's a great plan.... I'll call the President
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 12:59:29 PM EDT
1. NATFA has been good for the US economy. Estimates are as high as 1 percent of GDP growth the past 12 years have been as a result of NAFTA. Any other free trade area we can get into, we should join.

2. Regarding illegal immigration, you also have to examine the counter-factual: how bad would it be without NAFTA? I suspect it would be worse.

The one argument you could make her is that since NAFTA accelerated the US economy it created demand for additional illegals. But I suspect that without it the Mexican economy would be even worse. Remember, most of the illegals no longer come from Northern Mexico, which has become industrialized. They now come from Southern Mexico and other impoverished mountain regions.

This could also be the result of what is known as the "Dutch Disease" where an economy ends up with higher unemployment because one export sector is booming (oil, industry) and the currency becomes too valuable.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 1:09:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
The one argument you could make her is that since NAFTA accelerated the US economy it created demand for additional illegals.



I not sure I believe it. The types of jobs typically taken by illegals in the city are now in China. Assembly, textiles, and things like that.

A lot of illegals are now in construction, displacing American workers who would be glad to have those jobs, as well as fast food, which now makes it difficult for teens to find afterschool and summer work.

There may be a shortage of people in certain farming fields (not just picking), but that could be because the jobs suck and the pay is horrible.

We have plenty of our own unskilled people who need work. Add to that the war on drugs, and there are even more people who need those low-end jobs to get back on their feet. If those jobs disappear, what will they do?
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