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Posted: 7/2/2012 9:03:06 AM EDT
I own a signatory company in a service industry. I am also a member of this Union, and work in the field.  My brother is a business agent for the same union in another part of the country. He was part of a recent negotiation for our next contract.

My brother called the other day and mentioned that the numbers from the health insurance actuaries that were used in the contract negotiations included what anticipated cost increases the union (we have our own health plan) would need to included to cover the plan in the coming few years.

These are the numbers according to him, and I believe him:

With no Obamacare add $0.50 per hour per year (approximately $1000 Y1, $2000 Y2, $3000 Y3, $4000 Y4, $5000 Y5)
With Obamacare add $0.85 per hour per year (approximately $1700 Y1, $3400 Y2, $5100 Y3, $6800 Y4, $8500 Y5)

Difference over 5 Years = $10,500 out of our pockets. Of course it won't seem like this to most, because it is coming from money that we would have had to pay our bills.

For an excluded group, it seems to be costing us 170% over what we'd have paid without their help.

How is this possible?

We haven't even gotten into this mess yet, and a "Special" group is feeling it already.

What will it be like when he pulls the rug out from under us later on, and hits us as a Cadillac health plan?



Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:05:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Just imagine what we in the private sector are going to be paying
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:05:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Looks like you get to suffer with the rest of us.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:08:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Looks like you get to suffer with the rest of us.


Yep.

I'd rather that we were free to fend for ourselves :)
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:09:01 AM EDT
[#4]
I think the problem with healthcare is the what do I pay viewpoint.  It masks the true cost so free market can't do it's job.

Heart Surgery is $100,000.

Person A has 20% deductible.

Person B has $100 deductible.

Person C has no deductible.

Who's surgury costs the most?

Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:10:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Obamacare has already driven up health premiums in my are by 25%, just because of the requirements to remove annual and lifetime maximums on coverage.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:12:28 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I think the problem with healthcare is the what do I pay viewpoint.  It masks the true cost so free market can't do it's job.

Heart Surgery is $100,000.

Person A has 20% deductible.

Person B has $100 deductible.

Person C has no deductible.

Who's surgury costs the most?



What is the total premium paid by A, B, and C?

Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:12:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Just be happy you're helping the less-fortunate.

Your loss is their gain!
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:14:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
I think the problem with healthcare is the what do I pay viewpoint.  It masks the true cost so free market can't do it's job.

Heart Surgery is $100,000.

Person A has 20% deductible.

Person B has $100 deductible.

Person C has no deductible.

Who's surgury costs the most?



BINGO!!!

Not one thing in Obastard's plan deals with HEALTH CARE COST.  It just attempts to hide it under a bigger basket.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:16:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I think the problem with healthcare is the what do I pay viewpoint.  It masks the true cost so free market can't do it's job.

Heart Surgery is $100,000.

Person A has 20% deductible.

Person B has $100 deductible.

Person C has no deductible.

Who's surgury costs the most?



Person B or C, depending on where they live and "network" issues.

Person A will always drive the market towards the balance of price and quality that they are comfortable with, since their out-of-pocket expenses are directly tied to the cost of treatment.

Person A will be more likely to shop around and make the best decision for their financial situation and health.  B and C will go to the percieved best facility that is covered by their insurance without a thought on cost.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:30:50 AM EDT
[#10]
You reap what you sow.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:51:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Snip...
Difference over 5 Years = $10,500 out of our pockets.   Snip....
For an excluded group, it seems to be costing us 170% over what we'd have paid without their help.

How is this possible?

Snip....



Your Union (like most) contracts with an insurance company to cover benefits.

Your Union may be exempt (basically that means that the government regulations concerning what is a basic and/or what are Cadillac plans don't apply).    

So...most Unions have what are considered "Cadillac" plans (i.e...pay nothing or very little for service, have high yearly maximums, etc.)....so they won't be taxed on the extra value of the insurance plan.

However.....the insurance companies you are BUYING your plans from have to cover more people with more medical problems...so they have to raise their plan costs to compensate (in addition to the $$ the government is going to extract from them in new fees/taxes).    

So your Union brethren are going to be paying for all the people that normally couldn't afford insurance coverage and now can....because you're subsidizing their extra costs.....oh, wait....it gets better.....you're also going to see large tax increases in the future to pay for the new people being added to Medicare and Medicaid rolls (all of which are paid for by your tax dollars as most don't pay taxes).

AFARR
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 9:52:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think the problem with healthcare is the what do I pay viewpoint.  It masks the true cost so free market can't do it's job.

Heart Surgery is $100,000.

Person A has 20% deductible.

Person B has $100 deductible.

Person C has no deductible.

Who's surgury costs the most?



What is the total premium paid by A, B, and C?



My point was that all three surgeries cost 100k and insurance, government, deductibles, co-pays and premiums are just a way of shuffling the numbers around.  The doctor's pay rate, medical supplies, depreciation on hospital buildings, ect will be unaffected.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 10:41:02 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think the problem with healthcare is the what do I pay viewpoint.  It masks the true cost so free market can't do it's job.

Heart Surgery is $100,000.

Person A has 20% deductible.

Person B has $100 deductible.

Person C has no deductible.

Who's surgury costs the most?



What is the total premium paid by A, B, and C?



My point was that all three surgeries cost 100k and insurance, government, deductibles, co-pays and premiums are just a way of shuffling the numbers around.  The doctor's pay rate, medical supplies, depreciation on hospital buildings, ect will be unaffected.


And then what really happens is the doctor only gets paid what the insurance company THINKS it should have cost.  We've been on government health insurance for over twenty years (.mil), and the statements we get are bizzare.  Cost of procedure:  $2500.  Allowable cost:  $700.  Paid to provider:  $700.  

I foresee lots of doctors getting out of the business.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 10:57:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Yup. My insurance costs skyrocketed this year in anticipation of obamacare. Thanks for the help Obama.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 11:38:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Our local is self insured, still waiting to see the damage.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 11:41:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Cadillac Tax will be rolling your way in 2018; enjoy it, Obama loves you.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 3:00:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Our local is self insured, still waiting to see the damage.


I don't even think we're seeing the damage yet, Messiah and his minions are just getting started.
Link Posted: 7/2/2012 3:07:39 PM EDT
[#18]
You guys are fools.  Obamacare is going to bring back the 90's!!!  Who knows what heights we will reach with electric cars and no coal plants!!  AMERICA HAS ITS BEST DAYS RIGHT IN FRONT OF US!!!! WOOOOOOOOT!
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 2:55:44 AM EDT
[#19]
No Union Brothers defending Obamacare?

Link Posted: 7/3/2012 2:59:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
No Union Brothers defending Obamacare?



Probably the ones who are exempt.  I understand certain groups are not requried to be in the system like everyone else.  Not sure if correct but overheard the other day.  Kind of like teachers and Social Security.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 3:23:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Cadillac Tax will be rolling your way in 2018; enjoy it, Obama loves you.


By that time Obamacare will have collapsed (as it is intended to do) and the Fedgov will be running and paying for all medical treatment.
The only "Cadillac" health insurance plan in the nation will be the one reserved for former and current members of Congress, former and current high ranking bureaucrats and union bosses.
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