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Posted: 7/12/2008 6:44:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 10:19:54 AM EDT by 87GN]
I was 160 miles from home and my Mustang started getting hot, so I shut it down and got off the freeway. My options were a) tow it home at 5 bucks a mile for every mile over 100 or b) tow it to a nearby dealer to get it fixed. Had it towed to a nearby dealer and fixed. I told them that I suspected the water pump, as I'd replaced the thermostat only a week before...they said it was a bad hose clamp. $220 for 2.2 hours labor (at $95 an hour), coolant and the hose clamps...Drove home, no problems all week.

Went out today and coolant started leaking (ironically, as I was car shopping with my GF) and temp was 224-228. So I went right home and shut it down. There's no leak from the hose they fixed, but there is a leak from the water pump.

I asked the Ford service guy if they would warranty the other dealer's work, they said no.

I know I probably have no recourse but it kinda sucks. I thought I was doing the smart thing by having the dealer fix it for about the same cost as me having to get the car towed home and then still have to fix it myself. Now I'm out $220 plus whatever the water pump/gasket/sealer/etc. will cost...
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 6:48:36 PM EDT
What year is it and which engine do you have?
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 6:49:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
What year is it and which engine do you have?


1997 Cobra 4.6 DOHC
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 6:51:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
What year is it and which engine do you have?


1997 Cobra 4.6 DOHC


You should be able to change the pump yourself with simple hand tools.

$220 for hose clamps and antifreeze? OUch!
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 6:52:15 PM EDT
Next weakest link after the hose clamp.
Bad luck.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 6:53:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
What year is it and which engine do you have?


1997 Cobra 4.6 DOHC


You should be able to change the pump yourself with simple hand tools.

$220 for hose clamps and antifreeze? OUch!


Yeah, I can do it...just venting...that's all.

I was kinda stuck...get raped at the dealer or a pay huge tow bill.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 6:56:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:01:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 7:02:13 PM EDT by Quintin]

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
One Ford dealership will not warranty the work of another Ford dealership on a Ford vehicle? I've had Nissan dealerships warranty another Nissan dealership's work. I've had Buick dealerships warranty another Buick dealership's work. I was always under the impression that the dealership that did the original work reimbursed the dealership that had to do the follow-on work. I've had Firestone shops do work that was warrantied at another Firestone shop, same for Midas. Am I missing something?

The dealership replaced some hose clamps. The car runs fine for a week, and the water pump fails. I don't exactly see what there is that should be covered under warranty here.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:02:22 PM EDT
So, ah, how much you want for it?
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:04:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:07:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2008 7:09:56 PM EDT by ProfGAB101]
Sounds like the dealer didn't pressure test your system or the pump leak would have been evident.

The work was done by a Ford Franchise - it should be covered at any dealer - but they didn't replace the pump. If the pump (true issue) was replaced and still leaked then any other dealer should warrant the pump fix.

Edit 5.0 GT owner here.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:08:00 PM EDT
If a dealership installed OEM parts, then they should be covered under a 12/12 warranty.

But again, I'm failing to see what exactly should be covered under warranty in this particular instance.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:09:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ProfGAB101:
Sounds like the dealer didn't pressure test your system or the pump leak would have been evident.

Not always.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:11:37 PM EDT

Dealers rape you. That would be the last place I would take it. $250 for a hose clamp, that is hilarious. I got some ocean front property in arizona. interested?
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 7:11:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 87GN:

I know I probably have no recourse but it kinda sucks. I thought I was doing the smart thing by having the dealer fix it for about the same cost as me having to get the car towed home and then still have to fix it myself. Now I'm out $220 plus whatever the water pump/gasket/sealer/etc. will cost...


My high school gym coach inspired me with this story: He was on a family trip to the northeastern states (from TX) when the Wankel in his Vanagen blew up. Did he tow it home, call dealer, or rent a car? Nope. He did have it towed to a nearby junkyard. There, he rebuilt the engine from junkyard parts and tools borrowed from the guys at the junkyard. Took him a day. He had help from his son and daughter, both in high school. They then continued their trip. This happened over the summer of my junior year, and his daughter was my girlfriend and corroborated the story.

So that's what I do now. The car repair shop is the last place on my list.

The last thing that broke was my starter. I push started my car to the auto parts store, bought a new one, and had it running by the end of the day. $100.

Link Posted: 7/12/2008 8:23:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skillshot:

Originally Posted By 87GN:

I know I probably have no recourse but it kinda sucks. I thought I was doing the smart thing by having the dealer fix it for about the same cost as me having to get the car towed home and then still have to fix it myself. Now I'm out $220 plus whatever the water pump/gasket/sealer/etc. will cost...


My high school gym coach inspired me with this story: He was on a family trip to the northeastern states (from TX) when the Wankel in his Vanagen blew up. Did he tow it home, call dealer, or rent a car? Nope. He did have it towed to a nearby junkyard. There, he rebuilt the engine from junkyard parts and tools borrowed from the guys at the junkyard. Took him a day. He had help from his son and daughter, both in high school. They then continued their trip. This happened over the summer of my junior year, and his daughter was my girlfriend and corroborated the story.

So that's what I do now. The car repair shop is the last place on my list.

The last thing that broke was my starter. I push started my car to the auto parts store, bought a new one, and had it running by the end of the day. $100.



well, I was out in the middle of nowhere...the nearest town was 30 miles away...and that was a small town, no junkyard and one auto parts place...Didn't have much of a choice.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 8:29:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Quintin:If a dealership installed OEM parts, then they should be covered under a 12/12 warranty.

But again, I'm failing to see what exactly should be covered under warranty in this particular instance.


The hose clamps they replaced were one of the first things you look at when you open the hood. I can guarantee you that the previous leak was not from that area. I was surprised to hear that the water pump was not at fault because that's where it seemed to be leaking from before.

Perhaps I misspoke - I meant that they should have fixed the problem the first time around, not necessarily that they warranty the previous work...oh and the hose clamps they used are not OEM style.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 8:34:50 PM EDT
Fuck dude, Toyota did my timing belt for $320.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:19:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Quintin:

Originally Posted By ProfGAB101:
Sounds like the dealer didn't pressure test your system or the pump leak would have been evident.

Not always.


Well I called and talked to them, the conversation included this tidbit:

me: "How do you do that pressure test? Do you stop at the sign of the first leak?"

service guy: (chuckle) " Well, we take the radiator cap off and run air through the whole system."

me: "Yeah, but the hose clamp that was replaced was on the radiator. To my way of thinking, that would be one of the first areas that would show a leak."

service guy: "..."

me: "And it doesn't say that the guy did a pressure test after he fixed that leak."

service guy: "Well, he would have done that. It's standard procedure..."

me: "Well he listed everything else he did, why wouldn't he list that? He also listed that I refused to have certain other things done...oil change, check engine light (which was an ECT-related issue) and lifter noise."

service guy: "It could be that hose that we said was swollen and you didn't want replaced..."

me: "I'm looking at it now and that hose is just fine."

service guy: "...well I don't see how I could help you from here..."

Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:23:00 AM EDT
They don't give a shit. Are you really surprised?
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:24:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jmarkma:
They don't give a shit. Are you really surprised?


No, my dad wanted me to call to see if they would pay to have the local Ford dealer fix their f-up. The service guy said "well bring it on by" after I told him I was 200 miles away and it was overheating. He then told me to get it towed. I said "at $5 a mile???!"
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:26:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 10:27:31 AM EDT by jmarkma]

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By jmarkma:
They don't give a shit. Are you really surprised?


No, my dad wanted me to call to see if they would pay to have the local Ford dealer fix their f-up. The service guy said "well bring it on by" after I told him I was 200 miles away and it was overheating. He then told me to get it towed. I said "at $5 a mile???!"


So they could screw it up some more? They have already proven themselves incompetent, even the service manager. I wouldn't touch that place with a 10ft pole at this point.

ETA: I understand what you mean, but that's what I would have told them on the phone.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:29:50 AM EDT
I would suspect the leak was caused by the inital overheating. If their crystal ball was working correctly they could have looked into the future and repaired the problem before it happened.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:33:10 AM EDT
What dealership did you take it too, my roomate is a service advisor for Holmes Tutle, he might be able to help out.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:34:54 AM EDT
Your car over heated. The dealer determined it was a hose clamp. They fixed it. They pressure tested your cooling system. Your car worked fine for a week. The water pump then failed.

I'm not seeing the problem, here. Did you want them to charge you for a water pump replacement on a hunch?
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:36:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 10:42:05 AM EDT by prk]
So basically, it sounds like your issue is not over the their R&R of parts, but their diagnosis and testing procedure and decision as to what needed to be originally done.

Interesting. I wonder what the warranty says. Also no matter how limited the warranty is, I gotta wonder whether it really limits your recourse.

You paid them to

A. Figure out what to do.
B. Do it.

If the warranty only covers B, why should that mean that they aren't responsible IF they screwed up A?
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:40:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
What year is it and which engine do you have?


1997 Cobra 4.6 DOHC


You should be able to change the pump yourself with simple hand tools.

$220 for hose clamps and antifreeze? OUch!


No shit, you got raped!! Hope you had lots of lube.

Bill3508
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:43:43 AM EDT
What did they charge for coolant? It's going for about $15 / gal. here.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:44:17 AM EDT
Was the car overheating the reason for the thermostat replacement? Did you make sure you got all the air out of the system after doing that, burping it? Can you feel fluid running through the hose once the stat open up? Are you fans coming on?

Bill3508
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:47:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Quintin:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
One Ford dealership will not warranty the work of another Ford dealership on a Ford vehicle? I've had Nissan dealerships warranty another Nissan dealership's work. I've had Buick dealerships warranty another Buick dealership's work. I was always under the impression that the dealership that did the original work reimbursed the dealership that had to do the follow-on work. I've had Firestone shops do work that was warrantied at another Firestone shop, same for Midas. Am I missing something?

The dealership replaced some hose clamps. The car runs fine for a week, and the water pump fails. I don't exactly see what there is that should be covered under warranty here.


Maybe when they replaced the hose clamp "debris" fell (or was added) into the coolant hose.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:54:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:
Your car over heated. The dealer determined it was a hose clamp. They fixed it. They pressure tested your cooling system. Your car worked fine for a week. The water pump then failed.

I'm not seeing the problem, here. Did you want them to charge you for a water pump replacement on a hunch?


The OP states they did not pressure test after the hose clamp fix. The OP also stated that the original leak was near the water pump and not near the hose clamp.

There should be plenty of evidence of a leak as coolant leaves a white flaky deposit.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:55:57 AM EDT
My ass hurts just reading this.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:56:32 AM EDT
I suspect that the root cause of this problem is a faulty thermostat. It likely could be the cause of the initial overheating that ended up with the faulty hose/hose clamps/water pump seal.

Be sure to have the thermostat replaced during the water pump service. It's a $10 part that could potentially save you $500 or $5000.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:00:48 AM EDT
If you honestly think you got hosed (no pun intended...well, maybe) make a call to FOMOCO, they're interested and will get to the bottom of things.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:02:16 AM EDT
2.2 hours to replace a hose clamp, I would have thrown a fit.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:09:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:
Your car over heated. The dealer determined it was a hose clamp. They fixed it. They pressure tested your cooling system. Your car worked fine for a week. The water pump then failed.

I'm not seeing the problem, here. Did you want them to charge you for a water pump replacement on a hunch?


They didn't pressure test after they "fixed" it.

That's my complaint.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:10:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
Your car over heated. The dealer determined it was a hose clamp. They fixed it. They pressure tested your cooling system. Your car worked fine for a week. The water pump then failed.

I'm not seeing the problem, here. Did you want them to charge you for a water pump replacement on a hunch?


They didn't pressure test after they "fixed" it.

That's my complaint.


You sure?
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:15:26 AM EDT
I always keep a decent set of tools in my truck, hose clamps are in there by accident but a plastic organizer bin of misc parts like that would be a good idea. All of my previous modified vehicles or old ones had a set of tools in them. My new car however has a pansy ass set of minor tools. Only slightly modified and nothing that would keep me from driving. Knock on wood. I hate dealers...
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:16:39 AM EDT
Always pay w/ a cc and if you feel like you got the shaft ... simply dispute the charges w/ your credit card co and then the merchant has to solidify and prove their standing in the issue.

I would be pissed if that happened to me.

And I would have no problem contacting my cc company as well as the HQ of the dealership back in Detroit or whichever it was.

The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

good luck
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:27:37 AM EDT
Cheap lesson. It could have been much worse.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:39:22 AM EDT
2.5 hours for that is BS. I would say a pressure test is probably about .5 hours, and probably .1 hours to change a hose clamp. Sounds like they charged you book rate for a complete DX, repair, and another pressure test but only did the PT and clamp change. I would take your invoice to your current dealer, and ask the service manager for the book times on the services actually listed in that invoice. And contact FoMoCo if they indeed charged you excessively.

I think you can make a case for the water pump being OK for that week, so I don't see the dealer doing anything wrong there. They fixed it and got you home.

My GM dealer would have pressure tested the system, fixed that hose clamp, and called me immediately if the water pump leaked. Then they would let me get a cheaper part from Auto Zone and bring it in, install it, and pressure test the system again before releasing the car back to me. Without the water pump change....1 hour. With it, 2.5 hours.

A good service manager is worth his weight in gold.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:39:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 11:41:26 AM EDT by iNuhBaDNayburhood]
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:41:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 11:46:34 AM EDT by Powerkicker]
If they replaced a hose clamp that they said was leaking and the car ran fine for week, it would seem they did fix the problem as it existed at that time. Are you certain that the pump failure is not a new problem?

As for local mechanics... I took my Xterra in for an oil change and a crack harmonic balancer that was making a slight ringing noise as it struck the front of the engine periodically. They fixed it up and the racket went away. All was good and I drove it the 2 blocks tomy house without ever opening the hood. I drove it the next day to Hampton and just as soon as I exited the HRB Tunnel, the temp went through the roof and coolant started spewing out of my hood seams! I pulled off at the next exit and shut her down. I opened the hood and found my radiator cap...wedged under the coolant hose on top of the engine where a mechanic surely must have left it. I put the cap back on, refilled the coolant after a short walk to Pep-boys and all has been fine since. The shop that did the work swears they never even touched the radiator cap...
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:42:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 11:44:45 AM EDT by Dragracer_Art]
Raped at a dealership ?

What a surprise.

How the fuck some dealers stay in business is beyond comprehension.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:45:27 AM EDT
I take it your car is paid off? I'd be looking to get into something new and reliable.

You buy a used car and spend every weekend working on this, replacing that. By the time you get everything fixed. It's time to sell the fucking car.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:47:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I take it your car is paid off? I'd be looking to get into something new and reliable.

You buy a used car and spend every weekend working on this, replacing that. By the time you get everything fixed. It's time to sell the fucking car.


I don't know about you, but even the worst beater I've ever owned didn't cost me $20,000+ in repairs...
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:49:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I take it your car is paid off? I'd be looking to get into something new and reliable.

You buy a used car and spend every weekend working on this, replacing that. By the time you get everything fixed. It's time to sell the fucking car.


I don't know about you, but even the worst beater I've ever owned didn't cost me $20,000+ in repairs...


Yep...I drive them 'til the wheels fall off or the engine blows...or until repair costs outweigh the value of the vehicle.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:53:29 AM EDT
Before I lost my job I didn't have a lot of family time. Saturday was IT. The last thing I wanted to do was spend all day working on some unreliable POS.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:54:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I don't know about you, but even the worst beater I've ever owned didn't cost me $20,000+ in repairs...


No shit...

The two used vehicles I drive now have been completely trouble-free and zero maintenance.

The '98 Tahoe was bought for $5500 a year ago... New ? it was probably a $28-30k vehicle no problems / zero maintenance other than filters/oil.

The '01 Suburban was around $14k two years ago... New ? over $40k.
In two years... no problems / zero maintenance other than filters/oil.

I don't mind driving something used and a couple years old... because it makes me happy to know I didn't lose THOUSANDS of dollars in depreciation driving it off the showroom floor.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:55:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:57:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By asknight:
I suspect that the root cause of this problem is a faulty thermostat. It likely could be the cause of the initial overheating that ended up with the faulty hose/hose clamps/water pump seal.

Be sure to have the thermostat replaced during the water pump service. It's a $10 part that could potentially save you $500 or $5000.



Dealers NEVER want to replace the thermostat, yet that stupid $4 part is the cause of so much trouble. I have had 5+ cars with cooling system issues, and I have to insist they replace the damn thing before my car is fixed. Now anytime there is a colling system issue I check in this order:

1. Fan
2. Thermostat
3. Water pump.

If the pump is less than $100 to change I just do it as a matter of course.

Incomplete burping or a head gasket leak could also be the issue. MOST of the time, however, it's the pump of the thermostat.
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