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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:20:10 PM EDT
Attended the NRA convention today and as I found the Sig booth they had the pistol stabilizers on display on some of their pistols, I asked the Sig rep about shouldering it and he said that it was fine and that the ATF still considered it a pistol. We talked about it a few more minutes, I asked the price ($139) and if they had any, he pointed towards the sig booth and a credit card swipe later I now own this.
 While I was there I played with one of the pistols with the stabilizer attached and wouldn't you know it works great as a shoulder stabilizer as well  Also included in the box is this letter from the ATF  Now since I've only owned 1 AR pistol in my life I'm now going to start the process of building another and making it a nice little stable pistol using the Sig AR pistol stabilizer  ..and for those who don't know what it is  ETA: More pictures, it sure is smooth on the sides, almost like a stock.   |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:21:51 PM EDT
[#1]
I think it's time I get an AR pistol...
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:21:54 PM EDT
[#2]
....may have to pick one up
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:21:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Fuck the ATF. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:22:05 PM EDT
[#4]
What is it made of?
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:22:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Letters from the ATF are as good as toilet paper because sooner or later they will change their mind. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:23:13 PM EDT
[#6]
INTRADESTING........
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:23:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Foam rubber I think.
What is it made of? |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:23:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Nice
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:23:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Seems pointless really.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:24:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Letters from the ATF are as good as toilet paper because sooner or later they will change their mind.
What if you already bought it, would it be grandfathered in? I'm considering buying the stock now and building the pistol later. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:24:22 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm predicting this will be another Akins Accelerator debacle
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:24:44 PM EDT
[#12]
How much are these?
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:24:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Seems pointless really. Minus the whole "not considered a rifle stock" thing of course... |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:25:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:25:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Letters from the ATF are as good as toilet paper because sooner or later they will change their mind.
OH COME ON! You make it sound like they've changed their minds before. 
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:25:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Foam rubber I think. What is it made of? |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:25:36 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm not good at legalese, but, I don't believe that letter actually says shoulder firing with that thing would be "okay".
Obviously, they'd have to catch you shouldering it. But it says if used as it's designed, and not from the shoulder, it is not subject to NFA. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:25:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Seems pointless really. You don't get it. It's a stock that ATF doesn't consider a stock. Game changer. NFA work around |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:26:10 PM EDT
[#19]
wait.. what? that's legal? hmm might have to throw that on my spikes pistol i dont like the way buffer tubes look.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:26:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I think it's time I get an AR pistol... Yep this... |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:26:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Letters from the ATF are as good as toilet paper because sooner or later they will change their mind.
What if you already bought it, would it be grandfathered in? I'm considering buying the stock now and building the pistol later. You mean how Street Sweepers were grandfathered in and didn't have to be registered as destructive devices?
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:26:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder? Same place that it says that you can't |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:26:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder? Where does it say you can't? Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder." -Beat-  |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:27:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Does it go up?
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:27:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: How much are these? I paid $139 for mine from Sig today at the NRA convention so they may be more or less once they hit the retail market. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:29:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder? Where does it say you can't? Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder." -Beat-
It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:34:07 PM EDT
[#27]
I don't think I will trade off any of my SBR's
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:34:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder? Where does it say you can't? Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder." -Beat- It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock. ..but the ATF is ok with AFGs on pistols but not VFGs, so what's the difference? |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:37:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder? Where does it say you can't? Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder." -Beat-
It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock. ..but the ATF is ok with AFGs on pistols but not VFGs, so what's the difference? I wish everyone would stop trying to apply logic to ATF rulings. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:40:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder? Where does it say you can't? Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder." -Beat-
It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock. ..but the ATF is ok with AFGs on pistols but not VFGs, so what's the difference? I wish everyone would stop trying to apply logic to ATF rulings. Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:41:19 PM EDT
[#31]
sig's website says that they're taking preorders on them
guess i'll call on monday |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:43:15 PM EDT
[#32]
I should have gone.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:44:03 PM EDT
[#33]
In for ATF raid...
- Clint |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:46:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder? Where does it say you can't? Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder." -Beat- It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock. Would they get all bent out of shape if you fired any other AR pistol from the shoulder using only the buffer tube? If you fired a regular AR one handed without using the attached stock, would it be considered a pistol? The method with which you manipulate and fire the weapon doesn't change the classification or design in any way. This attachment is not considered a stock by the ATF, as per their letter, and as such the end user is free to utilize it in whatever manner they see fit  |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:46:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Is it stable?
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:47:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder? Where does it say you can't? Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder." -Beat-
It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock. ..but the ATF is ok with AFGs on pistols but not VFGs, so what's the difference? I wish everyone would stop trying to apply logic to ATF rulings. This. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:48:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Is it stable? Felt stable at the show, I didn't go running around with it clearing different vendors booths but it should work great, I'm seriously shopping for a pistol lower right now.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:50:45 PM EDT
[#38]
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:52:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:52:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it VFG is only ok on a firearm over 26" OAL. Then it is classified as a firearm and not and AOW that isn't a new ruling either. I'd hate to be the guy who is the test case for firing it from the shoulder. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:56:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. True. But some things to consider, though: 1. It's instant. No background check, waiting, etc. 2. Doesn't require notifying big brother gov when you cross state lines. 3. Doesn't put you on the "radar" (if that's a concern for you). 4. Some states simply don't allow any sort of NFA items, while they do allow AR pistols. 5. Some states allow you to keep a loaded pistol in your vehicle, while you cannot keep a loaded rifle (or SBR) in your vehicle. 6. Fuck the NFA. If I were still in a state that allowed AR pistols, I would buy this thing in hearbeat. YMMV. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:57:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder? Where does it say you can't? Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder." -Beat-
It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock. ..but the ATF is ok with AFGs on pistols but not VFGs, so what's the difference? I wish everyone would stop trying to apply logic to ATF rulings. Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it I so do not believe this. If true, I will buy 20 more AR pistols and AK pistols. Romanian wood dongs on the AKs and angled YHM VFGs with Hogues. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:57:42 PM EDT
[#43]
"...when attached to a forearm..." be careful...
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:58:26 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: $139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. I agree and honestly I thought the stabilizer cost $200+ but I'm still waiting on 2 tax stamps that I sent off in November, so this is instant and perfectly legal per the ATF themselves. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:58:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. Someone wouldn't be out of an NFA weapon if they had to use one of these in a self defense situation and it got taken. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:58:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it VFG is only ok on a firearm over 26" OAL. Then it is classified as a firearm and not and AOW that isn't a new ruling either. I'd hate to be the guy who is the test case for firing it from the shoulder. You can be arrested for firing it from the shoulder? How so? What would they charge you with? It's still an AR pistol, which is not designed to be fired from the shoulder. That's the key. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:59:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. Yep, and we have millions of SBRs here in Michigan. Not allowed in all 50....
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Posted: 5/4/2013 3:01:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Damn you for feeding this habit!
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Posted: 5/4/2013 3:01:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying. But no wait and they don't know you have it. |
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Posted: 5/4/2013 3:03:11 PM EDT
[#50]
ok now i want one to tide me over until stamp
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