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Posted: 5/4/2013 2:20:10 PM EDT
Attended the NRA convention today and as I found the Sig booth they had the pistol stabilizers on display on some of their pistols, I asked the Sig rep about shouldering it and he said that it was fine and that the ATF still considered it a pistol. We talked about it a few more minutes, I asked the price ($139) and if they had any, he pointed towards the sig booth and a credit card swipe later I now own this.

























While I was there I played with one of the pistols with the stabilizer attached and wouldn't you know it works great as a shoulder stabilizer as well


























Also included in the box is this letter from the ATF


























Now since I've only owned 1 AR pistol in my life I'm now going to start the process of building another and making it a nice little stable pistol using the Sig AR pistol stabilizer







..and for those who don't know what it is

















ETA: More pictures, it sure is smooth on the sides, almost like a stock.











 
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:21:51 PM EDT
I think it's time I get an AR pistol...
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:21:54 PM EDT
....may have to pick one up
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:21:55 PM EDT


Fuck the ATF.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:22:05 PM EDT
What is it made of?
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:22:58 PM EDT


Letters from the ATF are as good as toilet paper because sooner or later they will change their mind.

Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:23:13 PM EDT
INTRADESTING........
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:23:15 PM EDT
Quoted:
What is it made of?
Foam rubber I think.  

Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:23:35 PM EDT
Nice
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:23:44 PM EDT
Seems pointless really.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:24:17 PM EDT
Quoted:
Letters from the ATF are as good as toilet paper because sooner or later they will change their mind.



What if you already bought it, would it be grandfathered in? I'm considering buying the stock now and building the pistol later.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:24:22 PM EDT
I'm predicting this will be another Akins Accelerator debacle
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:24:44 PM EDT
How much are these?
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:24:53 PM EDT



Quoted:


Seems pointless really.


Minus the whole "not considered a rifle stock" thing of course...



 
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:25:06 PM EDT
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:25:16 PM EDT
Quoted:
Letters from the ATF are as good as toilet paper because sooner or later they will change their mind.



OH COME ON!  You make it sound like they've changed their minds before.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:25:22 PM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:

What is it made of?
Foam rubber I think.  






Yes it's a very firm and stiff rubber, very solid piece.





 
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:25:36 PM EDT
I'm not good at legalese, but, I don't believe that letter actually says shoulder firing with that thing would be "okay".

Obviously, they'd have to catch you shouldering it.

But it says if used as it's designed, and not from the shoulder, it is not subject to NFA.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:25:44 PM EDT
Quoted:
Seems pointless really.


You don't get it. It's a stock that ATF doesn't consider a stock. Game changer. NFA work around
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:26:10 PM EDT
wait.. what? that's legal? hmm might have to throw that on my spikes pistol i dont like the way buffer tubes look.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:26:19 PM EDT
Quoted:
I think it's time I get an AR pistol...


Yep this...
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:26:26 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Letters from the ATF are as good as toilet paper because sooner or later they will change their mind.



What if you already bought it, would it be grandfathered in? I'm considering buying the stock now and building the pistol later.


You mean how Street Sweepers were grandfathered in and didn't have to be registered as destructive devices?
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:26:28 PM EDT



Quoted:


Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?


Same place that it says that you can't

 
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:26:51 PM EDT





Quoted:



Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?



Where does it say you can't?





Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder."



-Beat-





 
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:27:10 PM EDT
Does it go up?
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:27:21 PM EDT



Quoted:


How much are these?


I paid $139 for mine from Sig today at the NRA convention so they may be more or less once they hit the retail market.

 
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:29:58 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?

Where does it say you can't?

Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder."

-Beat-
 


It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:34:07 PM EDT
I don't think I will trade off any of my SBR's
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:34:30 PM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:




Quoted:

Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?


Where does it say you can't?



Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder."



-Beat-

 




It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock.


..but the ATF is ok with AFGs on pistols but not VFGs, so what's the difference?

 
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:37:31 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?

Where does it say you can't?

Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder."

-Beat-
 


It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock.

..but the ATF is ok with AFGs on pistols but not VFGs, so what's the difference?  


I wish everyone would stop trying to apply logic to ATF rulings.

Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:40:34 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?

Where does it say you can't?

Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder."

-Beat-
 


It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock.

..but the ATF is ok with AFGs on pistols but not VFGs, so what's the difference?  


I wish everyone would stop trying to apply logic to ATF rulings.



Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:41:19 PM EDT
sig's website says that they're taking preorders on them

guess i'll call on monday
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:43:15 PM EDT
I should have gone.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:44:03 PM EDT
In for ATF raid...

- Clint
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:46:32 PM EDT





Quoted:





Quoted:




Quoted:


Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?



Where does it say you can't?


Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder."


-Beat-


 



It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock.



Would they get all bent out of shape if you fired any other AR pistol from the shoulder using only the buffer tube?





If you fired a regular AR one handed without using the attached stock, would it be considered a pistol?





The method with which you manipulate and fire the weapon doesn't change the classification or design in any way. This attachment is not considered a stock by the ATF, as per their letter, and as such the end user is free to utilize it in whatever manner they see fit





 
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:46:46 PM EDT
Is it stable?
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:47:58 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?

Where does it say you can't?

Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder."

-Beat-
 


It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock.

..but the ATF is ok with AFGs on pistols but not VFGs, so what's the difference?  


I wish everyone would stop trying to apply logic to ATF rulings.



This.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:48:24 PM EDT



Quoted:


Is it stable?


Felt stable at the show, I didn't go running around with it clearing different vendors booths but it should work great, I'm seriously shopping for a pistol lower right now.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:50:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:52:26 PM EDT
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying.


Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:52:55 PM EDT



Quoted:





Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it


VFG is only ok on a firearm over 26" OAL.  Then it is classified as a firearm and not and AOW that isn't a new ruling either.

 



I'd hate to be the guy who is the test case for firing it from the shoulder.



Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:56:01 PM EDT
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying.


True.  But some things to consider, though:

1. It's instant.  No background check, waiting, etc.
2. Doesn't require notifying big brother gov when you cross state lines.
3. Doesn't put you on the "radar" (if that's a concern for you).
4. Some states simply don't allow any sort of NFA items, while they do allow AR pistols.
5. Some states allow you to keep a loaded pistol in your vehicle, while you cannot keep a loaded rifle (or SBR) in your vehicle.
6. Fuck the NFA.


If I were still in a state that allowed AR pistols, I would buy this thing in hearbeat.  YMMV.


Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:57:35 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Where does it say you can fire it from the shoulder?

Where does it say you can't?

Plus the ATF says they found that it was "not designed to fire from the shoulder."

-Beat-
 


It says fired with one hand. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the letter establishes the intent of the stock.

..but the ATF is ok with AFGs on pistols but not VFGs, so what's the difference?  


I wish everyone would stop trying to apply logic to ATF rulings.



Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it


I so do not believe this. If true, I will buy 20 more AR pistols and AK pistols. Romanian wood dongs on the AKs and angled YHM VFGs with Hogues.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:57:42 PM EDT
"...when attached to a forearm..."  be careful...

Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:58:26 PM EDT



Quoted:


$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying.


I agree and honestly I thought the stabilizer cost $200+ but I'm still waiting on 2 tax stamps that I sent off in November, so this is instant and perfectly legal per the ATF themselves.

 
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:58:57 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying.




Someone wouldn't be out of an NFA weapon if they had to use one of these in a self defense situation and it got taken.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:58:58 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:


Actually, apparently ATF is okay with VFG now. Someone posted a case recently that ruled the VFG to be G2G. Maybe someone will post a link to it

VFG is only ok on a firearm over 26" OAL.  Then it is classified as a firearm and not and AOW that isn't a new ruling either.  

I'd hate to be the guy who is the test case for firing it from the shoulder.



You can be arrested for firing it from the shoulder?  How so?  What would they charge you with?

It's still an AR pistol, which is not designed to be fired from the shoulder.  That's the key.

Link Posted: 5/4/2013 2:59:35 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying.




Yep, and we have millions of SBRs here in Michigan. Not allowed in all 50....
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 3:01:22 PM EDT
Damn you for feeding this habit!
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 3:01:26 PM EDT
Quoted:
$139 isn't that much less than a tax stamp. Just saying.


But no wait and they don't know you have it.
Link Posted: 5/4/2013 3:03:11 PM EDT
ok now i want one to tide me over until stamp
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