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Posted: 4/14/2006 12:11:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 12:11:26 AM EST by Airwolf]


www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191681,00.html

Honda May Cut Hybrid Production

Thursday, April 13, 2006


NEW YORK — Honda Motor Co. (HMC) may cut production of the Honda Accord hybrid because sales have been so slow, Honda Executive Vice President Dick Colliver said Thursday at the New York Auto Show.

Colliver was the second executive in as many days to question the direction of hybrid sales during media previews for the show, which opens to the public Friday. Nissan Motor Co. Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn said Wednesday that hybrid sales appear to be slowing down, something he has warned could happen as consumers decide whether hybrids are worth their additional cost.

Colliver wouldn't give exact sales for the Accord hybrid, which went on sale in December 2004, but said they make up a tiny percentage of Honda's overall sales. Overall Accord sales were down 4 percent last year, according to Autodata Corp.

"We've had to reevaluate our position," Colliver said. "It's having a hard time in the market."

Colliver said a decision on the Accord will be made sometime this year.

Not all hybrids are suffering. The Honda Insight hybrid saw sales jump 15 percent last year, and Colliver said sales of the Honda Civic hybrid remain strong. The company expects to sell 25,000 hybrid Civics this year, or 8 percent of its total Civic volume.

Colliver said the problem with the Accord is that the hybrid system is paired with a V6 engine, compared to the smaller 4-cylinder engine in the Civic, and consumers aren't convinced it will offer them any fuel savings.

Toyota Motor Corp.'s (TM) Lexus luxury division is betting that consumers eventually will adopt so-called performance hybrids like the Accord, which give vehicles a bigger engine with better fuel economy and lower emissions.

The 2008 Lexus LS 600h, introduced at the New York show, is the first luxury vehicle to pair a powerful V-8 engine with a hybrid system. The combination gives the 600h the power of a 12-cylinder engine with the fuel efficiency of a smaller vehicle. Lexus said the sedan will have fuel economy ratings equal to or better than some mid-sized luxury sedans.

But Colliver said he's not convinced consumers will embrace performance hybrids.

"We're still looking at where's the best package for hybrids," Colliver said. "We're going to have to watch the market."

Jack Nerad, editorial director of Kelley Blue Book, an auto information service, said he also expects consumers will be slow to adopt performance hybrids because they think of hybrids only as fuel savers.

"The general public doesn't grasp there is such a thing as a performance hybrid," Nerad said.

Hybrids made up 1.5 percent of new-car sales last year, up slightly from the year before, even though there were new models on the market, according to J.D. Power and Associates.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 12:14:24 AM EST
Gee whiz...

A car that costs an extra $10k, requires a complete overhaul in 3-5yrs (when the batteries crap out)...

50mpg isn't worth that, sorry, no way....
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 12:43:19 AM EST
I saw a story yesterday that said most car companies were admitting that they jumped on the hybrid bandwagon a little to fast and I would have to agree.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 12:43:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Gee whiz...

A car that costs an extra $10k, requires a complete overhaul in 3-5yrs (when the batteries crap out)...

50mpg isn't worth that, sorry, no way....



Don't forget that neck snapping torque too
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 12:46:18 AM EST
hey now, there was a company that build a rather nice looking electric sports car that could out-accellerate a viper, and they proved it.

fast little bitch, ran on li-ion laptop batteries, no shit.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 12:47:25 AM EST
And also don't forget the extreme gheyness that comes free with every purchase.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 1:03:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By MTUSA:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Gee whiz...

A car that costs an extra $10k, requires a complete overhaul in 3-5yrs (when the batteries crap out)...

50mpg isn't worth that, sorry, no way....



Don't forget that neck snapping torque too



Actually the Hybrid Accord (the slow seller) will outperform the normal one. The problem is that people worried about the "hybrid" shit are generally nutless treehuggers who couldn't give a rat's ass about 0-60 times. They do just fine with the Prius.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 1:15:27 AM EST
People are finally realizing that hybrid vehicles make little or no economic sense.


You'd have to drive something like 50,000 miles per year for 5 years to "save" enough gas to overcome the initial costs vs a non-hybrid variant.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 1:26:02 AM EST
smug? or smog
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 1:31:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
smug? or smog




Both, maybe?
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 1:58:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
smug? or smog



probably smugness, as in the south park episode where Pious (ooops, Prius) drivers were rather smug and full of themselves, to the point of finding their own farts smelling good. There were clouds of smug from Sanfrancisco. They picked on George Clooney a bit in that episode.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:01:02 AM EST
I have looked the numbers over and am not impressed. The really impressive gains in mileage and performance generally happen in the lower speed stop and go driveing.(city and around town driveing) The problem is that most folks drive a large percentage of their mileage on the highway.The hybrid shows promise as a inner city type of vehicle-taxi,delivery and so forth.
For the normal person who drives a great pecentage of their mileage on the highway simply getting a car with a smaller engine,diesel,or better gearing seems to be the more reasonable way to go. A high mileage driver (by definition almost allways a highway driver) best deal would be to give up high performance and settle for the better mileage.
It seems to me that hybrid technoligy might be applied in larger vehicles-school buses,medium trucks and vans used around town,possibly a special inner city cop car.
I remember back in the mid to late 70's when most everyone was hot for the oldsmoble diesel.Stupid thing didn't last,plain could not get out of it's own way,and added 40% to the cost of the car. Gm could have replaced that dog with a 4cyl gas engine and got the same performace with none of the hassle and sold the car for less than the standard gas v8 model
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:21:27 AM EST
The whole concept of "Performance Hybrids" is totally idiotic.
I own a Toyota Prius and I can catagorically state that it's automotive performance is superior to the 1999 Ford Taurus (w/standard 3 liter V6 engine) that I traded for it.
The idea of a V6 hybrid Accord that get's only a marginal improvement in gas mileage over its own 4 cylinder counterpart is simply a ludicrous concept. THAT'S why people dont' want it; it's just a BAD idea!
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:38:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By nhsport:
I have looked the numbers over and am not impressed. The really impressive gains in mileage and performance generally happen in the lower speed stop and go driveing.(city and around town driveing) The problem is that most folks drive a large percentage of their mileage on the highway.The hybrid shows promise as a inner city type of vehicle-taxi,delivery and so forth.
For the normal person who drives a great pecentage of their mileage on the highway simply getting a car with a smaller engine,diesel,or better gearing seems to be the more reasonable way to go. A high mileage driver (by definition almost allways a highway driver) best deal would be to give up high performance and settle for the better mileage.
It seems to me that hybrid technoligy might be applied in larger vehicles-school buses,medium trucks and vans used around town,possibly a special inner city cop car.
I remember back in the mid to late 70's when most everyone was hot for the oldsmoble diesel.Stupid thing didn't last,plain could not get out of it's own way,and added 40% to the cost of the car. Gm could have replaced that dog with a 4cyl gas engine and got the same performace with none of the hassle and sold the car for less than the standard gas v8 model




Here's one more misconception about hybrids. If I addressed them all I'd be here all day.
"Hybrids only get their best gas mileage in city driving, not on the highway."
WRONG!
Hybrids are very similar to any other car in that they get better gas mileage on the highway than in stop and go city driving.

I'll repeat that for those who missed it the first time.

Hybrids are very similar to any other car in that they get better gas mileage on the highway than in stop and go city driving.

In continuous stop and go driving they will run down their battery fairly quickly and then the ICE will need to kick back on to recharge the battery.

The kind of traffic conditions in which hybrids really excel is in HIGHLY VARIABLE driving conditions, particularly long commutes (more than fifteen miles) under mixed conditions. This means heavy traffic that varies unpredictably between high speeds, slow speeds and medium speeds.

This is EXACTLY the type of driving that is encountered by a very large number of people who commute from the suburbs into the city and vice versa.

Here's a real world example.
I commute 36 miles daily from the western Philly suburbs into center city (72 miles total commute). I drive on Rte 1 (multiple access 4 lane, 55pmh limit), Rte 322 (double lane highway with speed limit varying from 35mph to 45 mph), I-95 (interstate highway) and then I-76 (congested city/interstate loop), and finally in the city itself until I get to my parking lot. Traffic conditions vary widely and are totally unpredictable. One might be flying along at 75mph one minute and then be crawling for the next twenty minutes at 10mph.
I pulled into my parking lot this morning and my fuel consumption calculator registered 53mpg AVERAGE over the past 150 miles since I last refueled.
I think I can live with that!
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:41:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Gee whiz...

A car that costs an extra $10k, requires a complete overhaul in 3-5yrs (when the batteries crap out)...

50mpg isn't worth that, sorry, no way....



Aw come on man, get educated about the batteries before you go spouting off at the mouth. Utter bullshit. The batteries are designed to last at LEAST 10 years of normal use. And they ARE designed to be easily recycleable. So get your shit straight.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:44:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Gee whiz...

A car that costs an extra $10k, requires a complete overhaul in 3-5yrs (when the batteries crap out)...

50mpg isn't worth that, sorry, no way....



Don't forget that neck snapping torque too



Actually the Hybrid Accord (the slow seller) will outperform the normal one. The problem is that people worried about the "hybrid" shit are generally nutless treehuggers who couldn't give a rat's ass about 0-60 times. They do just fine with the Prius.



I would say that most *adults* don't give a rat's ass about 0-60 times, esp in their daily driver.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:48:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By billclo:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Gee whiz...

A car that costs an extra $10k, requires a complete overhaul in 3-5yrs (when the batteries crap out)...

50mpg isn't worth that, sorry, no way....



Aw come on man, get educated about the batteries before you go spouting off at the mouth. Utter bullshit. The batteries are designed to last at LEAST 10 years of normal use. And they ARE designed to be easily recycleable. So get your shit straight.



There is 1911 koolaid, HK koolaid, Colt koolaid, Glock koolaid and now Pious...er Prius Koolaid.

Hybrids look interesting as a technology, but I think it will be a few more years before they become extremely viable.

Look at the railroad, they have been using hybrids for years now (diesel-electric). Even our Submarine fleet is hybrid (nuclear-electric). Just gotta get the technology to a level where it is viable on a wide-spread use and not as dependant on batteries.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:49:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I would say that most *adults* don't give a rat's ass about 0-60 times, esp in their daily driver.



Says you.

I bought a new Mustang for a reason, and it wasn't to go slow.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:56:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 3:58:15 AM EST by AeroE]
The only reason they don't sell in this region is because there aren't any available. I haven't seen nor heard of a Honda Civic or Accord hybrid at any dealership here.

If Honda wants to sell hybrids, and I think they need to get them into consumer hands to reveal their real weaknesses, they need to put an end to the price gouging and let the cars compete head to head with gas vehicles.

There isn't sufficient smog reduction from the small number of hybrids on the roads to be measureable at this date.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 3:58:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I would say that most *adults* don't give a rat's ass about 0-60 times, esp in their daily driver.



Says you.

I bought a new Mustang for a reason, and it wasn't to go slow.


Please, tell me it isn't a V6?

I lost 8MPG when I went from a tiny Saturn (32MPG) to the longest car since the '70s ('94 Cadillac Fleetwood 24MPG), weighs about 4600lbs and runs a 15 flat in the 1/4 mile. 8MPG was very likely the best trade-off I ever made. Forget econoboxes, I want luxury.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:02:40 AM EST
I think one important reason the Honda Accord Hybrid isn't selling is because it doesn't look like a hybrid.

A Honda Insight stands out so you can show all you neighbors that you are an enviro-geek.

Irony: If you really wanted to do something about the enviroment, just buy one of those old HF Hondas that got 50MPG on a normal engine.

Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:03:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I would say that most *adults* don't give a rat's ass about 0-60 times, esp in their daily driver.



Says you.

I bought a new Mustang for a reason, and it wasn't to go slow.


Please, tell me it isn't a V6?



It isn't a V6. It's a GT.

And I'll just head this one off at the pass:


Please tell me it isn't an automatic.


It isn't, it's a 5spd.

And while I'm busy putting good questions into people's mouths:


Please tell me you aren't going to leave it bone stock


I'm not going to leave it bone stock. In fact, I'm seriously considering ordering up a short block and forged internals for a supercharger build.

Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:16:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Belfry_Express:

Originally Posted By billclo:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Gee whiz...

A car that costs an extra $10k, requires a complete overhaul in 3-5yrs (when the batteries crap out)...

50mpg isn't worth that, sorry, no way....



Aw come on man, get educated about the batteries before you go spouting off at the mouth. Utter bullshit. The batteries are designed to last at LEAST 10 years of normal use. And they ARE designed to be easily recycleable. So get your shit straight.



Hybrids look interesting as a technology, but I think it will be a few more years before they become extremely viable.

Look at the railroad, they have been using hybrids for years now (diesel-electric). Even our Submarine fleet is hybrid (nuclear-electric). Just gotta get the technology to a level where it is viable on a wide-spread use and not as dependant on batteries.



I agree, the economics of hybrids is marginal NOW. But who knows how much better the next generation will be? I've already seen a British article on the next gen Prius that gets about 113mpg (BRITISH GALLONS). See here: www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/66260/prius_hits_113mpg.html

If they can keep the price difference down to reasonable levels, that'd go a long way to making the technology more viable.

EVERY new technology goes through it's phases: new, expensive, not terribly efficient, to been around, moderately expensive and somewhat efficient, then old, cheap, and efficient. This is no different.

It just gets my goat when people go around spouting inaccurate statements - batteries crapping out in 3-5 years. Bull.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:21:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Belfry_Express:
Even our Submarine fleet is hybrid (nuclear-electric).



Now that would be a goddamned good truck engine...
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:26:25 AM EST
The big three should do Hybrids and Diesels.
Diesels get excellent gas mileage
I had diesel jetta 15 years ago and i would easily get ~35-45 mpg
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:32:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I would say that most *adults* don't give a rat's ass about 0-60 times, esp in their daily driver.



Says you.

I bought a new Mustang for a reason, and it wasn't to go slow.



Then I would submit you are neither "most" nor "adult".
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:33:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By ken_mays:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I would say that most *adults* don't give a rat's ass about 0-60 times, esp in their daily driver.



Says you.

I bought a new Mustang for a reason, and it wasn't to go slow.



Then I would submit you are neither "most" nor "adult".



I also run with scissors while bump firing.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:34:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By billclo:

Originally Posted By Belfry_Express:

Originally Posted By billclo:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Gee whiz...

A car that costs an extra $10k, requires a complete overhaul in 3-5yrs (when the batteries crap out)...

50mpg isn't worth that, sorry, no way....



Aw come on man, get educated about the batteries before you go spouting off at the mouth. Utter bullshit. The batteries are designed to last at LEAST 10 years of normal use. And they ARE designed to be easily recycleable. So get your shit straight.



Hybrids look interesting as a technology, but I think it will be a few more years before they become extremely viable.

Look at the railroad, they have been using hybrids for years now (diesel-electric). Even our Submarine fleet is hybrid (nuclear-electric). Just gotta get the technology to a level where it is viable on a wide-spread use and not as dependant on batteries.



I agree, the economics of hybrids is marginal NOW. But who knows how much better the next generation will be? I've already seen a British article on the next gen Prius that gets about 113mpg (BRITISH GALLONS). See here: www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/66260/prius_hits_113mpg.html

If they can keep the price difference down to reasonable levels, that'd go a long way to making the technology more viable.

EVERY new technology goes through it's phases: new, expensive, not terribly efficient, to been around, moderately expensive and somewhat efficient, then old, cheap, and efficient. This is no different.

It just gets my goat when people go around spouting inaccurate statements - batteries crapping out in 3-5 years. Bull.



The Hybrids are designed to have 10 year batt replacement, however, there arent any that are that old yet, we'll just have to see.

Hell, look at cellphones. When they came out in the 80, only drugdealers and rich people had them because they were a status symbol. I think we are seeing the same thing with hybrids. Only its a status symbol to most of the green peace types. I think hybrids will become more viable. However, until I see a hybrid running the low 12s in the 1/4 mile, no thanks

I think I will stick to diesel which can now win things like Sebring

We took my mom's jetta to sun n fun last week. Got 54 MPG and we were BEATING on it. It was so great going from atlanta to orlando to lakeland on one tank. Filling up on monday then commuting to the event all week on one more tank, then filling up before we left west palm beach on saturday. I love high MPG. Makes my 28 I get in the subaru look like crap
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:42:00 AM EST
Hybrids are a waste of money.

Full out electric cars are the way to go, the Battery technology is nearly here, they just need to improve the charge time a bit (they are at 1 hour now) , but the have the range and power. Coupled with a well designed brushless motor, there little doubt in my mind that an electric can out preform an gasoline car.


There is just not market for electric car now, and there won't be untill gas is as go as gone.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 4:44:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

I also run with scissors while bump firing.



Unless it's underwater, I'm not impressed.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 5:17:57 AM EST
Someone's been farking.....

Link Posted: 4/14/2006 5:25:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 5:34:29 AM EST
A Mustang and Hybrid both fall into the same worthless catagory and do about the same for me.


Hybrid = Tree Huggers Dream Car

Mustang = Single Persons Dream Car

Link Posted: 4/14/2006 5:36:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By iroc409:
hey now, there was a company that build a rather nice looking electric sports car that could out-accellerate a viper, and they proved it.

fast little bitch, ran on li-ion laptop batteries, no shit.



would make a heck of a fun car to zip around town in



T-zero

Expensive as all get out and not really in production as far as I can tell. An interesting proof of concept at least
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 5:39:03 AM EST
As much as we like to complain about the price of gas and its conspiratorial causes, gas is still cheap enough to have only a minor influence on people's transportation decisions.

There's just no real incentive to change our habits.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 5:39:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Mustang = Single Persons Dream Car




Link Posted: 4/14/2006 5:41:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By quijanos:
A Mustang and Hybrid both fall into the same worthless catagory and do about the same for me.


Hybrid = Tree Huggers Dream Car

Mustang = Single Persons Dream Car




Why does everybody say that about Mustangs or other sporty cars? Why do "family" cars always have to be so big and boring? I should take pictures of my Stang with my daughter's car seat in the back. I haul groceries with it, too.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:09:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
A Mustang and Hybrid both fall into the same worthless catagory and do about the same for me.


Hybrid = Tree Huggers Dream Car

Mustang = Single Persons Dream Car




Why does everybody say that about Mustangs or other sporty cars? Why do "family" cars always have to be so big and boring? I should take pictures of my Stang with my daughter's car seat in the back. I haul groceries with it, too.



Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:11:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By mytwocents:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
A Mustang and Hybrid both fall into the same worthless catagory and do about the same for me.


Hybrid = Tree Huggers Dream Car

Mustang = Single Persons Dream Car




Why does everybody say that about Mustangs or other sporty cars? Why do "family" cars always have to be so big and boring? I should take pictures of my Stang with my daughter's car seat in the back. I haul groceries with it, too.



img502.imageshack.us/img502/4154/lardmobile3ad.jpg



WTF is that?
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:13:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By mytwocents:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
A Mustang and Hybrid both fall into the same worthless catagory and do about the same for me.


Hybrid = Tree Huggers Dream Car

Mustang = Single Persons Dream Car




Why does everybody say that about Mustangs or other sporty cars? Why do "family" cars always have to be so big and boring? I should take pictures of my Stang with my daughter's car seat in the back. I haul groceries with it, too.



img502.imageshack.us/img502/4154/lardmobile3ad.jpg</a>



WTF is that?



Its pretty much any GM car
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:16:27 AM EST
There needs to be government support for the development of these cars, because the public will not buy enough right now to support the costs of development. LEt gas go up another dollar or 2 on a full time basis, and it will be a different market.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:21:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:39:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:
There needs to be government support for the development of these cars, because the public will not buy enough right now to support the costs of development. LEt gas go up another dollar or 2 on a full time basis, and it will be a different market.



Am I reading this right? Since the unwashed masses can't make the "right" choice, the government should subsidize hybrid development? Are you kidding me?
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:16:21 AM EST
that 113 mpg yota is 94 mpg us.


still THATS FUCKING AWESOME!

I'd definatly spring for it.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:23:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Coolio:

Originally Posted By nhsport:
I have looked the numbers over and am not impressed. The really impressive gains in mileage and performance generally happen in the lower speed stop and go driveing.(city and around town driveing) The problem is that most folks drive a large percentage of their mileage on the highway.The hybrid shows promise as a inner city type of vehicle-taxi,delivery and so forth.
For the normal person who drives a great pecentage of their mileage on the highway simply getting a car with a smaller engine,diesel,or better gearing seems to be the more reasonable way to go. A high mileage driver (by definition almost allways a highway driver) best deal would be to give up high performance and settle for the better mileage.
It seems to me that hybrid technoligy might be applied in larger vehicles-school buses,medium trucks and vans used around town,possibly a special inner city cop car.
I remember back in the mid to late 70's when most everyone was hot for the oldsmoble diesel.Stupid thing didn't last,plain could not get out of it's own way,and added 40% to the cost of the car. Gm could have replaced that dog with a 4cyl gas engine and got the same performace with none of the hassle and sold the car for less than the standard gas v8 model




Here's one more misconception about hybrids. If I addressed them all I'd be here all day.
"Hybrids only get their best gas mileage in city driving, not on the highway."
WRONG!
Hybrids are very similar to any other car in that they get better gas mileage on the highway than in stop and go city driving.

I'll repeat that for those who missed it the first time.

Hybrids are very similar to any other car in that they get better gas mileage on the highway than in stop and go city driving.

In continuous stop and go driving they will run down their battery fairly quickly and then the ICE will need to kick back on to recharge the battery.

The kind of traffic conditions in which hybrids really excel is in HIGHLY VARIABLE driving conditions, particularly long commutes (more than fifteen miles) under mixed conditions. This means heavy traffic that varies unpredictably between high speeds, slow speeds and medium speeds.

This is EXACTLY the type of driving that is encountered by a very large number of people who commute from the suburbs into the city and vice versa.

Here's a real world example.
I commute 36 miles daily from the western Philly suburbs into center city (72 miles total commute). I drive on Rte 1 (multiple access 4 lane, 55pmh limit), Rte 322 (double lane highway with speed limit varying from 35mph to 45 mph), I-95 (interstate highway) and then I-76 (congested city/interstate loop), and finally in the city itself until I get to my parking lot. Traffic conditions vary widely and are totally unpredictable. One might be flying along at 75mph one minute and then be crawling for the next twenty minutes at 10mph.
I pulled into my parking lot this morning and my fuel consumption calculator registered 53mpg AVERAGE over the past 150 miles since I last refueled.
I think I can live with that!


Wow, South Park did a whole episode just about you.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:38:52 AM EST
I'd buy this hybrid

In 1800, Alessandro Volta arranged zinc and copper discs in a column and invented the battery. 204 years later, Toyota has electrified automotive history with the first high-performance hybrid, named in his honor. The Giugiaro-designed carbon-fiber body seats three people abreast and features "drive-by-wire" controls, allowing you to position the steering wheel and pedals in front of any one of them. And the Volta's 408-hp Hybrid Synergy Drive® (a 3.3-liter V6 with an electric motor for each axle) not only delivers 435 miles on a 13.7-gallon tank, but 0-60 acceleration in a mere four seconds. Somewhere, Count Volta is smiling.

Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:43:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:

Originally Posted By Coolio:

Originally Posted By nhsport:
I have looked the numbers over and am not impressed. The really impressive gains in mileage and performance generally happen in the lower speed stop and go driveing.(city and around town driveing) The problem is that most folks drive a large percentage of their mileage on the highway.The hybrid shows promise as a inner city type of vehicle-taxi,delivery and so forth.
For the normal person who drives a great pecentage of their mileage on the highway simply getting a car with a smaller engine,diesel,or better gearing seems to be the more reasonable way to go. A high mileage driver (by definition almost allways a highway driver) best deal would be to give up high performance and settle for the better mileage.
It seems to me that hybrid technoligy might be applied in larger vehicles-school buses,medium trucks and vans used around town,possibly a special inner city cop car.
I remember back in the mid to late 70's when most everyone was hot for the oldsmoble diesel.Stupid thing didn't last,plain could not get out of it's own way,and added 40% to the cost of the car. Gm could have replaced that dog with a 4cyl gas engine and got the same performace with none of the hassle and sold the car for less than the standard gas v8 model




Here's one more misconception about hybrids. If I addressed them all I'd be here all day.
"Hybrids only get their best gas mileage in city driving, not on the highway."
WRONG!
Hybrids are very similar to any other car in that they get better gas mileage on the highway than in stop and go city driving.

I'll repeat that for those who missed it the first time.

Hybrids are very similar to any other car in that they get better gas mileage on the highway than in stop and go city driving.

In continuous stop and go driving they will run down their battery fairly quickly and then the ICE will need to kick back on to recharge the battery.

The kind of traffic conditions in which hybrids really excel is in HIGHLY VARIABLE driving conditions, particularly long commutes (more than fifteen miles) under mixed conditions. This means heavy traffic that varies unpredictably between high speeds, slow speeds and medium speeds.

This is EXACTLY the type of driving that is encountered by a very large number of people who commute from the suburbs into the city and vice versa.

Here's a real world example.
I commute 36 miles daily from the western Philly suburbs into center city (72 miles total commute). I drive on Rte 1 (multiple access 4 lane, 55pmh limit), Rte 322 (double lane highway with speed limit varying from 35mph to 45 mph), I-95 (interstate highway) and then I-76 (congested city/interstate loop), and finally in the city itself until I get to my parking lot. Traffic conditions vary widely and are totally unpredictable. One might be flying along at 75mph one minute and then be crawling for the next twenty minutes at 10mph.
I pulled into my parking lot this morning and my fuel consumption calculator registered 53mpg AVERAGE over the past 150 miles since I last refueled.
I think I can live with that!


Wow, South Park did a whole episode just about you.



Dude.
I'm glad it so funny for you to have four 900 pound gorillas take turns ass raping you every time you gas up (OPEC, oil companies, Federal government and State government).
It's good that you enjoy it so much because by the time Summer rolls around they're going to have you bent over so far you'll be able to watch.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:55:51 AM EST
Nice to see there is still a TON of ignorance when it comes to hybrid vehicles. That's why they're not selling well.


I'd dig a performance hybrid. Check it:

Electric motors get the most torque at 0RPM. Couple that with a gasoline engine, and you can get a lot more power to the ground from 0mph. Shifting some of the work from the gasoline engine to an electric motor to get the car moving helps where fuel economy is the worst: Stop and go.

And geeze, hybrids don't have any new technology in them!

Electric motors
Batteries
Internal Combustion Engine
Computers

All have been around for decades, if not more than a century.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:59:58 AM EST
Forget mustangs or hybrids. I am happy as can be with the 4cyl. Camry and V6 Tacoma.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:08:08 AM EST
Try selling the POS for a reasonable price and THEN sales may pick up. BTW....why not create a hybrid that gets 250 mpg, like the hacked version of the Prius? I think that might peak the interest of your consumer base...
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 12:42:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By JBowles:
Hybrids are a waste of money.

Full out electric cars are the way to go, the Battery technology is nearly here, they just need to improve the charge time a bit (they are at 1 hour now) , but the have the range and power. Coupled with a well designed brushless motor, there little doubt in my mind that an electric can out preform an gasoline car.


There is just not market for electric car now, and there won't be untill gas is as go as gone.



Those electric cars don't have a good heat source in the winter, that's why they will never work.
Resistance heat is way too big of a power user, even some sort of heat pump will eat those batteries power. That's a big reason for the push in hybrid, you can burn gas to generate heat for the cab.
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