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Posted: 3/7/2010 10:35:23 PM EDT
Watching Die Hard 2 right now...  Wow.  I didn't realize it wasn't that long ago that people walked around airports (INDOORS!) lighting up.  

I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:28:37 PM EDT
I remember being a kid and my mother smoking in the hospital waiting room. Also my highschool had a "smoking ramp" they removed the year before I got to there tho.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:29:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2010 11:29:21 PM EDT by SMWeinbrenner]
I wish my master level classes were in rooms filled with cigar/cigarette/pipe smoke and alcohol was encouraged.

 
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:35:11 PM EDT



Originally Posted By SMWeinbrenner:


I wish my master level classes were in rooms filled with cigar/cigarette/pipe smoke and alcohol was encouraged.  


I have some of my classes in buildings that are close to 100 years old.



I have actually wondered before if there was a time when people were smoking in those buildings during class.



 
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:42:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2010 11:44:00 PM EDT by hughjafj]
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By SMWeinbrenner:
I wish my master level classes were in rooms filled with cigar/cigarette/pipe smoke and alcohol was encouraged.  

I have some of my classes in buildings that are close to 100 years old.

I have actually wondered before if there was a time when people were smoking in those buildings during class.
 


Yup, freedom was understood at one time. Now. even those who say they are for freedom will bitch about any little thing that hurts their delicate sensibilities.

And these same little fascists still don't understand why they are less free.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:46:57 PM EDT
I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:50:36 PM EDT
For all the youngsters:

luxury cars used to have not only ashtrays built in the arm rests, but lighters as well.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:54:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hawken50:
I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.

Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.

Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:58:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2010 12:05:53 AM EDT by hughjafj]
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:06:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2010 12:08:42 AM EDT by Hawken50]







Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Hawken50:



I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.
Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.




Go fuck yourself.  I know damn well it was his choice, and so does he.  Don't presume shit about me.  Don't you fucking infer that me wishing my dad didn't have cancer is me wishing away his right to choose.

 









Oh, wait, i get it. You think me wishing my dad didn't have cancer is a assault on your personal freedoms.  Excuse the fuck outta me.










I don't give a shit if i get a time out or a ban for this-  FUCK YOU.


 
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:10:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hawken50:

Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Hawken50:
I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.

Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.


Go fuck yourself.  I know damn well it was his choice, and so does he.  Don't presume shit about me.  Don't you fucking infer that me wishing my dad didn't have cancer is me wishing away his right to choose.  

Oh, wait, i get it.  Me wishing my dad didn't have cancer is a assault on your personal freedoms.  Excuse the fuck outta me.

I don't give a shit if i get a time out or a ban for this-  FUCK YOU.
 


I didn't infer any of the things you said I did.

I'm sorry for your dad and said a prayer for your family when I read that.

If you didn't think it was relevant to taking away our freedom to smoke in public then why the hell did you mention it here?
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:11:59 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Hawken50:


Originally Posted By hughjafj:


Originally Posted By Hawken50:

I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.



Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.

Go fuck yourself.  I know damn well it was his choice, and so does he.  Don't presume shit about me.  Don't you fucking infer that me wishing my dad didn't have cancer is me wishing away his right to choose.  



Oh, wait, i get it. You think me wishing my dad didn't have cancer is a assault on your personal freedoms.  Excuse the fuck outta me.




I don't give a shit if i get a time out or a ban for this-  FUCK YOU.
 


I didn't get any of that from hughjafj's post. I thought that he was just trying to affirm his own ideas about individual freedom, not saying that you were trying to take away freedom of choice. Maybe you read some things into his post that weren't there?



 
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:13:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2010 12:14:41 AM EDT by Flathead9]
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.


Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:14:33 AM EDT
I'm glad that more places are non-smoking.  I'm sad its a law.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:14:35 AM EDT
BTW, I lost my Great-grandmother to lung cancer at the age of 72. She never smoked a day in her life.

I lost my Father to acute alcoholic intoxication and I still don't think that should be illegal. Even though alcoholics smell like shit to me.

Freedom is not without risks.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:16:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Hawken50:
I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.

Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.



cause I'm sure smoking gave him bladder cancer ...LOL
did he inhale through his penis or something ?
me myself ,I'm reasonably sure the lungs and bladder aren't connected that way ,

BTW  sorry to hear that hawken , not making fun of his condition at all .
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:16:53 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Flathead9:



Originally Posted By hughjafj:


I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....
WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?



Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.



I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.
I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....



Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.

Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.



I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.



Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.



Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?



There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.



I have no dog in this fight but I must point out that there are two sides to that coin.



If you don't like being around smoke then you can decide to go somewhere else.



Forcing someone else to change their behavior is not freedom and is certainly not the only solution.



 
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:17:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wasnme:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Hawken50:
I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.

Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.



cause I'm sure smoking gave him bladder cancer ...LOL
did he inhale through his penis or something ?
me myself ,I'm reasonably sure the lungs and bladder aren't connected that way ,

BTW  sorry to hear that hawken , not making fun of his condition at all .


The carcinogens taken into your body from smoking can give you cancer anywhere, so yes, it is possible.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:18:28 AM EDT
I remember being in the grocery store, and people walking around shopping while smoking. I also remember when restaruants had a choice, Smoking or non-smoking.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:18:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.




Same argument the gun banner use. And no, second hand smoke is not proven to cause lung cancer. Smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer.

About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked. What does that tell you?
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:20:27 AM EDT



Originally Posted By hughjafj:



Originally Posted By Hawken50:




Originally Posted By hughjafj:


Originally Posted By Hawken50:

I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.



Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.





Go fuck yourself.  I know damn well it was his choice, and so does he.  Don't presume shit about me.  Don't you fucking infer that me wishing my dad didn't have cancer is me wishing away his right to choose.  



Oh, wait, i get it.  Me wishing my dad didn't have cancer is a assault on your personal freedoms.  Excuse the fuck outta me.




I don't give a shit if i get a time out or a ban for this-  FUCK YOU.
 




I didn't infer any of the things you said I did.



I'm sorry for your dad and said a prayer for your family when I read that.



If you didn't think it was relevant to taking away our freedom to smoke in public then why the hell did you mention it here?


well, if i took your post the wrong way, i apologize for my reaction.  but it seemed to me like you did infer that.  I applicate your prayers.



I bring it up because the topic is smoking in public.  I relayed a childhood memory of my father doing so.  His cancer is a direct result of that, so i included it.  However, NOWHERE in my post it i suggest that he should not have the right to do as he wished.  That much you did infer.  I fully respect his personal freedoms, and would hope everyone else would do the same.




In fact, i have a smoke now and again myself.  




You'll never hear me arguing on the side of restricting freedoms.



 





Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:20:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....
WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.
I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.

I have no dog in this fight but I must point out that there are two sides to that coin.

If you don't like being around smoke then you can decide to go somewhere else.

Forcing someone else to change their behavior is not freedom and is certainly not the only solution.
 


I agree with your argument to a certain extent, and I really struggle with this issue. I don't like the idea of telling a restaurant owner what rules he can and cannot have in his establishment.

I think the reason I eventually fall on the side I do is because of how wide-spread it is.

The "don't like it, go somewhere else" philosophy could essentially preclude you from going...well...anywhere.

I don't know, I think the other reason is like what I said, it serves no utility but it definitely does harm. Why is it so hard to just do it at home or in your car where you aren't hurting other people?
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:21:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.




Same argument the gun banner use. And no, second hand smoke is not proven to cause lung cancer. Smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer.

About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked. What does that tell you?



Well...if you don't think smoking causes cancer I can't debate with you. The sky is green too.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:22:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....
WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.
I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.

I have no dog in this fight but I must point out that there are two sides to that coin.

If you don't like being around smoke then you can decide to go somewhere else.

Forcing someone else to change their behavior is not freedom and is certainly not the only solution.
 


I agree with your argument to a certain extent, and I really struggle with this issue. I don't like the idea of telling a restaurant owner what rules he can and cannot have in his establishment.

I think the reason I eventually fall on the side I do is because of how wide-spread it is.

The "don't like it, go somewhere else" philosophy could essentially preclude you from going...well...anywhere.

I don't know, I think the other reason is like what I said, it serves no utility but it definitely does harm. Why is it so hard to just do it at home or in your car where you aren't hurting other people?


if enough people don't want to go to a smoking establishment , the market will supply a non-smoking establishment for them to frequent
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:22:55 AM EDT
His cancer is a direct result of that, so i included it.


So a doctor told you that? Can you show me anything that says his smoking definitely caused it?
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:22:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


Your rights end where mine begin.  IMO, it's my right to breathe smoke free air in public places.   Don't forget, this is coming from a smoker.

You want to smoke in a bar or restaurant?  Go ahead.  I don't have to go there or a business owner can make their own decision if they want to ban smoking.  An airport or the like where people basically have to go?  I don't want you or anyone else smoking in there.  

Comparing that to banning guns?  I didn't think anyone could be that mentally deficient.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:23:02 AM EDT



Originally Posted By max229:





Originally Posted By Hawken50:


Originally Posted By hughjafj:


Originally Posted By Hawken50:

I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.



Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.

Go fuck yourself.  I know damn well it was his choice, and so does he.  Don't presume shit about me.  Don't you fucking infer that me wishing my dad didn't have cancer is me wishing away his right to choose.  



Oh, wait, i get it. You think me wishing my dad didn't have cancer is a assault on your personal freedoms.  Excuse the fuck outta me.




I don't give a shit if i get a time out or a ban for this-  FUCK YOU.
 


I didn't get any of that from hughjafj's post. I thought that he was just trying to affirm his own ideas about individual freedom, not saying that you were trying to take away freedom of choice. Maybe you read some things into his post that weren't there?

 


If that is the case, he has my sincerest apologies, both in public and in the IM i am about to send.  I will delete my earlier post if he wishes.

 
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:24:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.




Same argument the gun banner use. And no, second hand smoke is not proven to cause lung cancer. Smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer.

About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked. What does that tell you?



Well...if you don't think smoking causes cancer I can't debate with you. The sky is green too.


At least ten people in my family smoked their entire lives and didn't get cancer and lived to be in their 80's. Explain that.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:24:59 AM EDT



Originally Posted By wasnme:



Originally Posted By hughjafj:


Originally Posted By Hawken50:

I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.



Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.







cause I'm sure smoking gave him bladder cancer ...LOL

did he inhale through his penis or something ?

me myself ,I'm reasonably sure the lungs and bladder aren't connected that way ,



BTW  sorry to hear that hawken , not making fun of his condition at all .




According to his doctors, the carcinogens that are inhaled make there way into the blood stream.  from there they are filtered out by the liver and possibly other organs, and are deposited into urine in the bladder.





 
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:25:42 AM EDT
ITT: Armchair Doctors
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:26:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


Your rights end where mine begin.  IMO, it's my right to breathe smoke free air in public places.   Don't forget, this is coming from a smoker.

You want to smoke in a bar or restaurant?  Go ahead.  I don't have to go there or a business owner can make their own decision if they want to ban smoking.  An airport or the like where people basically have to go?  I don't want you or anyone else smoking in there.  

Comparing that to banning guns?  I didn't think anyone could be that mentally deficient.


I never thought anyone could be so mentally deficient to advocate banning things that are stinky or scary.

Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:26:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hughjafj:

At least ten people in my family smoked their entire lives and didn't get cancer and lived to be in their 80's. Explain that.


Really?  That's your argument?????

Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:27:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.




Same argument the gun banner use. And no, second hand smoke is not proven to cause lung cancer. Smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer.

About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked. What does that tell you?



Well...if you don't think smoking causes cancer I can't debate with you. The sky is green too.


At least ten people in my family smoked their entire lives and didn't get cancer and lived to be in their 80's. Explain that.


That doesn't seem like a very large sample size.  Hell, they might have lived to 120.  What did they die of?
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:27:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hawken50:

Originally Posted By wasnme:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Hawken50:
I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.

Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.



cause I'm sure smoking gave him bladder cancer ...LOL
did he inhale through his penis or something ?
me myself ,I'm reasonably sure the lungs and bladder aren't connected that way ,

BTW  sorry to hear that hawken , not making fun of his condition at all .

According to his doctors, the carcinogens that are inhaled make there way into the blood stream.  from there they are filtered out by the liver and possibly other organs, and are deposited into urine in the bladder.

 


If they told you that his cancer is a direct cause of smoking then I would go see better doctors.

About half of cancer patients never smoked. Explain that.

Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:28:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.




Same argument the gun banner use. And no, second hand smoke is not proven to cause lung cancer. Smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer.

About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked. What does that tell you?



Well...if you don't think smoking causes cancer I can't debate with you. The sky is green too.


At least ten people in my family smoked their entire lives and didn't get cancer and lived to be in their 80's. Explain that.


"Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States; exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. Tobacco use is a contributor to every chronic disease including diabetes, asthma and heart problems." - Take straight from the American Medical Association's website. I guess all those "doctors" don't know shit....
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:28:43 AM EDT



Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:



Originally Posted By hughjafj:


I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....
WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?



Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.



I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.
Your rights end where mine begin.  IMO, it's my right to breathe smoke free air in public places.   Don't forget, this is coming from a smoker.



You want to smoke in a bar or restaurant?  Go ahead.  I don't have to go there or a business owner can make their own decision if they want to ban smoking.  An airport or the like where people basically have to go?  I don't want you or anyone else smoking in there.  



Comparing that to banning guns?  I didn't think anyone could be that mentally deficient.


That makes sense. "Public" buildings should be regulated by the government as they belong to all.

Private buildings should be regulated by the owner and the free market will sort things out as it always does.



 
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:29:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


Your rights end where mine begin.  IMO, it's my right to breathe smoke free air in public places.   Don't forget, this is coming from a smoker.

You want to smoke in a bar or restaurant?  Go ahead.  I don't have to go there or a business owner can make their own decision if they want to ban smoking.  An airport or the like where people basically have to go?  I don't want you or anyone else smoking in there.  

Comparing that to banning guns?  I didn't think anyone could be that mentally deficient.


I never thought anyone could be so mentally deficient to advocate banning things that are stinky or scary.



You've chosen the dumbest possible analogy.  If you want to put it on the same plane, you'd have to suggest that it would be OK for people to randomly fire guns anywhere they wanted to.  I mean, hey, why not walk into the airport and dump a couple mags.  What's the worst that could happen?  You certainly wouldn't want to ban that just cause it's loud.  Fuck, it's not even dangerous if you just aim at the ceiling.

Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:29:58 AM EDT



Originally Posted By hughjafj:



His cancer is a direct result of that, so i included it.




So a doctor told you that? Can you show me anything that says his smoking definitely caused it?


His doctor told him, who told me.  I explained the mechanism above, as it was explained to me.

 
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:30:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.




Same argument the gun banner use. And no, second hand smoke is not proven to cause lung cancer. Smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer.

About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked. What does that tell you?



Well...if you don't think smoking causes cancer I can't debate with you. The sky is green too.


At least ten people in my family smoked their entire lives and didn't get cancer and lived to be in their 80's. Explain that.


That doesn't seem like a very large sample size.  Hell, they might have lived to 120.  What did they die of?


Pneumonia after breaking a hip mostly. many died of natural causes-organ shut down.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:30:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....
WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.
Your rights end where mine begin.  IMO, it's my right to breathe smoke free air in public places.   Don't forget, this is coming from a smoker.

You want to smoke in a bar or restaurant?  Go ahead.  I don't have to go there or a business owner can make their own decision if they want to ban smoking.  An airport or the like where people basically have to go?  I don't want you or anyone else smoking in there.  

Comparing that to banning guns?  I didn't think anyone could be that mentally deficient.

That makes sense. "Public" buildings should be regulated by the government as they belong to all.
Private buildings should be regulated by the owner and the free market will sort things out as it always does.
 


Exactly.  If it was a private airport, fine.  When it's a "public" place, no.  Privately owned places, it should be completely up to the owner.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:31:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2010 12:32:26 AM EDT by max229]





Originally Posted By Flathead9:


"Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States; exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. Tobacco use is a contributor to every chronic disease including diabetes, asthma and heart problems." - Take straight from the American Medical Association's website. I guess all those "doctors" don't know shit....



While I tend to believe their advice in purely medical areas I still treat it with a note of caution. They do have an agenda and one must make sure that it is not coloring what they are telling you. Let us not forget that the AMA is the same group that considers gun ownership to an increased risk lifestyle.





 
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:33:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2010 12:34:24 AM EDT by ragedracer1977]
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By Flathead9:
"Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States; exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. Tobacco use is a contributor to every chronic disease including diabetes, asthma and heart problems." - Take straight from the American Medical Association's website. I guess all those "doctors" don't know shit....

While I tend to believe their advice in purely medical areas I still treat it with a note of caution. They do have an agenda and one must make sure that it is not coloring what they are telling you. Let us not forget that the AMA is the same group that attributes gun ownership to an increased risk lifestyle.
 


I find it nearly impossible to believe that anyone out there thinks that smoking isn't hazardous to your health.

Is it guaranteed to cause cancer?  Obviously, no.  Does it increase your risk?  I'm sure it does.  

Do I still choose to smoke?  Yeah.  But I also choose to never smoke around my children or other family members who aren't smokers.  Just like I wouldn't go popping off rounds in their general direction.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:34:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By Flathead9:
"Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States; exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. Tobacco use is a contributor to every chronic disease including diabetes, asthma and heart problems." - Take straight from the American Medical Association's website. I guess all those "doctors" don't know shit....

While I tend to believe their advice in purely medical areas I still treat it with a note of caution. They do have an agenda and one must make sure that it is not coloring what they are telling you. Let us not forget that the AMA is the same group that considers gun ownership to an increased risk lifestyle.
 


Ok, Ok, I get that. But seriously. Are we seriously arguing about whether smoking causes cancer or not? I mean, really?!?!?

I guess I agree with the public building argument. I just wish people would be a bit more considerate of those around them. I think that goes for every aspect of life too, not just smoking.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:34:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.




Same argument the gun banner use. And no, second hand smoke is not proven to cause lung cancer. Smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer.

About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked. What does that tell you?



Well...if you don't think smoking causes cancer I can't debate with you. The sky is green too.


At least ten people in my family smoked their entire lives and didn't get cancer and lived to be in their 80's. Explain that.


"Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States; exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. Tobacco use is a contributor to every chronic disease including diabetes, asthma and heart problems." - Take straight from the American Medical Association's website. I guess all those "doctors" don't know shit....


Living is the leading cause of preventable death. Not one person who doesn't smoe has lived forever. You don't have to smoke to get cancer or any other leading cause of death. Sorry, you and them are full of shit.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:35:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Flathead9:


I guess I agree with the public building argument. I just wish people would be a bit more considerate of those around them. I think that goes for every aspect of life too, not just smoking.


Yup.

IMO, only rude asshole cocksuckers light up in the middle of a crowd of children, but I don't think it should be illegal to do so.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:36:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


Your rights end where mine begin.  IMO, it's my right to breathe smoke free air in public places.   Don't forget, this is coming from a smoker.

You want to smoke in a bar or restaurant?  Go ahead.  I don't have to go there or a business owner can make their own decision if they want to ban smoking.  An airport or the like where people basically have to go?  I don't want you or anyone else smoking in there.  

Comparing that to banning guns?  I didn't think anyone could be that mentally deficient.


I never thought anyone could be so mentally deficient to advocate banning things that are stinky or scary.



You've chosen the dumbest possible analogy.  If you want to put it on the same plane, you'd have to suggest that it would be OK for people to randomly fire guns anywhere they wanted to.  I mean, hey, why not walk into the airport and dump a couple mags.  What's the worst that could happen?  You certainly wouldn't want to ban that just cause it's loud.  Fuck, it's not even dangerous if you just aim at the ceiling.



Pot meet kettle.

I didn't advocate blasting rounds into crowds bub.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:36:47 AM EDT



Originally Posted By hughjafj:



Originally Posted By Hawken50:




Originally Posted By wasnme:


Originally Posted By hughjafj:


Originally Posted By Hawken50:

I can remember as a kid,  probably '87 or so, my dad smoking in the entry vestibule at my elementary school.   now he's  got bladder cancer.   go figure.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




And it was his freedom to take that risk. Go figure.



Ask him if he'd like to see more crackdowns on smoking. Let us know his answer.







cause I'm sure smoking gave him bladder cancer ...LOL

did he inhale through his penis or something ?

me myself ,I'm reasonably sure the lungs and bladder aren't connected that way ,



BTW  sorry to hear that hawken , not making fun of his condition at all .




According to his doctors, the carcinogens that are inhaled make there way into the blood stream.  from there they are filtered out by the liver and possibly other organs, and are deposited into urine in the bladder.



 




If they told you that his cancer is a direct cause of smoking then I would go see better doctors.



About half of cancer patients never smoked. Explain that.





Alot more than half of skydivers never die from smashing into the ground at a high rate of speed, but some do, and it is a direct result of skydiving. going skydiving increases ones risk of smashing into the ground at a high rate of speed.



I do believe that smoking increases the risk of cancer.  specifically bladder cancer.  I am not going to debate the subject with you any further.

 
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:36:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hawken50:

Originally Posted By hughjafj:
His cancer is a direct result of that, so i included it.


So a doctor told you that? Can you show me anything that says his smoking definitely caused it?

His doctor told him, who told me.  I explained the mechanism above, as it was explained to me.  


I'd find him another doctor, seriously.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:37:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
I smoke, but I sure am glad you can't do that anymore....


WHAT THE FUCK? WHY?

Freedom comes with risks. You're in the same league as gun banners.

I cannot believe any red-blooded American would condone the incremental loss of freedoms that has gotten us to this lowly point in history.


I don't really know how you can compare smoking with banning guns....

Second hand smoke definitely (this is conclusively proven, not even a little budge room for argument) gives people cancer. It also serves no public utility (like guns). <––- Edit, i'm saying guns DO serve a public utility here, in case that wasn't clear.
Its because of rude assholes that think its ok to blow smoke in other people's faces that these laws were enacted.

I'm not sure how anybody can justify smoking in public - you are KNOWINGLY injuring other people around you, just because you like how it makes you feel.

Guns serve a utility - to protect yourself and your family. Any accidental deaths from gun ownership are tragic collateral damage, because the purpose of their ownership is worth that loss of life.

Approx. 1,500 people die from lunch cancer in this country every day. Many of which were caused from second hand smoke. What public utility did that smoke serve?

There is a difference between "destroying freedom" and creating laws that make sense to protect other people from assholes that don't care about anything but themselves.




Same argument the gun banner use. And no, second hand smoke is not proven to cause lung cancer. Smoking hasn't even conclusively been shown to cause cancer.

About half of the people who get lung cancer never smoked. What does that tell you?



Well...if you don't think smoking causes cancer I can't debate with you. The sky is green too.


At least ten people in my family smoked their entire lives and didn't get cancer and lived to be in their 80's. Explain that.


"Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States; exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. Tobacco use is a contributor to every chronic disease including diabetes, asthma and heart problems." - Take straight from the American Medical Association's website. I guess all those "doctors" don't know shit....


Living is the leading cause of preventable death. Not one person who doesn't smoe has lived forever. You don't have to smoke to get cancer or any other leading cause of death. Sorry, you and them are full of shit.


Wow, now that is some hard-core denial. Well, of all things in life I never expected to be called "full of shit" for asserting that smoking causes cancer. I guess I can call it an accomplishment?

You know who else is full of shit? All those people who think the earth is round!
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:37:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hughjafj:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:


You've chosen the dumbest possible analogy.  If you want to put it on the same plane, you'd have to suggest that it would be OK for people to randomly fire guns anywhere they wanted to.  I mean, hey, why not walk into the airport and dump a couple mags.  What's the worst that could happen?  You certainly wouldn't want to ban that just cause it's loud.  Fuck, it's not even dangerous if you just aim at the ceiling.



Pot meet kettle.

I didn't advocate blasting rounds into crowds bub.


That's odd.  I just went back and read what I wrote.  Surprisingly, I found that I never said you did.

Link Posted: 3/8/2010 12:38:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By Flathead9:
"Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States; exposure to secondhand smoke is the third leading cause of death. Tobacco use is a contributor to every chronic disease including diabetes, asthma and heart problems." - Take straight from the American Medical Association's website. I guess all those "doctors" don't know shit....

While I tend to believe their advice in purely medical areas I still treat it with a note of caution. They do have an agenda and one must make sure that it is not coloring what they are telling you. Let us not forget that the AMA is the same group that attributes gun ownership to an increased risk lifestyle.
 


I find it nearly impossible to believe that anyone out there thinks that smoking isn't hazardous to your health.

Is it guaranteed to cause cancer?  Obviously, no.  Does it increase your risk?  I'm sure it does.  

Do I still choose to smoke?  Yeah.  But I also choose to never smoke around my children or other family members who aren't smokers.  Just like I wouldn't go popping off rounds in their general direction.


If you don't know the difference.....
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