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Posted: 3/12/2005 6:39:52 AM EST
Minneapolis and St. Paul are probably going to pass a smoking ban at all bars. This pisses me off to the nth degree even though I don't smoke. Bars are private property and have the right to do anything on their property that doesn't violate anyone else's rights. Some will say that smoking violates others rights but it clearly doesn't. Nobody is forcing anyone else to go inside that bar and breathe the second hand smoke. They all go on their own volition. If they don't want to breathe it they don't have to go to the bar. We don't need the nanny state government telling us what to do. What do you think about smoking bans?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 6:57:49 AM EST
my gun smokes a little during fire....maybe this has something to do with it..
i noticed too that sometimes if you take a crap in the snow... it kinda gives off some smoke..
then again there are these politicians who do nothing more than blow smoke...
i just dont know what to make of it...probably impliment a program with a "plan" have a summit on it and then create a tax to support it..
sorry, what was the question ?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 6:58:22 AM EST
I hate smoke - but I support the Rights of smokers.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 6:59:22 AM EST
Just move to a free state.

Running from your problems is the "IN" thing to do.

SGatr15
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:07:27 AM EST
Could't we just get rid of Minneapolis already, if it wasn't for that city this
state would be a pretty good place.

They constantly want to copy California laws


Damn Libs.

GM
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:09:07 AM EST
I don't mind smokers having the right to smoke, agreed but some private places don't have proper seperations of smoking and non-smoking areas but I agree you have the option not to spend your money there, agreed. But I tkink this is a fall out from all the law suites that made alot of Trail lawyers rich. And leaving the tax payers the bill for all the so called smoke related illnesses. I hate laws restricting your rights. It just like the seatbelt law to me. Who are you to tell me I have to wear a seatbelt? It doesn't alter my driving.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:11:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By goodmedicine:

They constantly want to copy California laws

GM



That's because other states keep send there liberals here to Cali.

Then Cali passes laws and the libs get irritable when they find out they can only do so much.

That's when they get frustrated, which is where you come in.

For years other states have been telling Californians to "just move".

Well, they did move...not it is YOUR turn to deal with them.


Or..you can just move.

Your choice.

SGatr15
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:13:10 AM EST
It won't be long until the only city in the US that allows indoors smoking will be Las Vegas. 10-1.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:18:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Smoking Bans: Fascism by Another Name



fascism

n : a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)

Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:20:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By 10mmFan:
It won't be long until the only city in the US that allows indoors smoking will be Las Vegas. 10-1.



Anywhere that there is a Casino will always allow smoking. Whats funny is in Gulfport,MS my home state, they have non-smoking arears like that really works when 95% of the building has smoking areas, and I believe those machines in the non-smking area never really payout that good either.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:24:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Smoking Bans: Fascism by Another Name



fascism

n : a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)




Fascism is governmental control of private property. How is this not fascism?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:31:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Smoking Bans: Fascism by Another Name



fascism

n : a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)




Fascism is governmental control of private property.?



No, its not.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:33:24 AM EST
there are alot of laws restricting what one can do on private property, how is this different?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:38:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Smoking Bans: Fascism by Another Name



fascism

n : a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)




Fascism is governmental control of private property.?



No, its not.



An essential part of fascism is corporatism which is in fact government control of private property.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:40:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Smoking Bans: Fascism by Another Name



fascism

n : a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)




Fascism is governmental control of private property.?



No, its not.



An essential part of fascism is corporatism which is in fact government control of private property.



If that is the case than Fascism has been here for years and years. There are laws that say what you can and can not do on your own land.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:42:22 AM EST
Guys I really hate it when people use words like Fascist, Genocide, Racism, etc to describe lesser realities. Fascism in my book is autocratic control of industry, commerce, finance and oppression of the opposition by force.

Maybe if people keep misusing the word it will come to mean anyone they disagree with or anyone with a gun. Carry on.............
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:47:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
I hate smoke - but I support the Rights of smokers.



I really hate the smell of smoke when I come home from the bar and my clothes smell like an ashtray. But it was my decision to go to a "Private Establishment" to have some drinks with some friends. I still can't understand how the goverment can impose such laws on "Private Companies".

It honestly really pisses me off. They just passed it here for the whole state of MA.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:47:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By BGdave:
Guys I really hate it when people use words like Fascist, Genocide, Racism, etc to describe lesser realities. Fascism in my book is autocratic control of industry, commerce, finance and oppression of the opposition by force.

Maybe if people keep misusing the word it will come to mean anyone they disagree with or anyone with a gun. Carry on.............



If it walks like a duck.... We have been approaching fascism in this nation since the 30s. Luckily we haven't gone totally in yet.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:17:46 AM EST
I am not a smoker at all and can't see why people would want to start or why they even do it. But you know what I hate the ideas of smoking bans. Smokers have the same rights as non smokers. If I got to a place and there is someone smoking like a chimney and it bothers me I get up and move to a different location. It really is easy to go to places where smoking is allowed and not be around alot of smoke. My cousin lives in a town with a smoking ban and he says the bars that he use to go to are quite bare now since most of the people who went there to hang out were smokers. City counsils don't see that by passing thses stupid smoking bans that they are killing businesses in thier own towns. Thanks Arvin
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:25:26 AM EST
corpus christi just enacted one..........................almost makes me want to start smoking
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:21:31 AM EST
The reason you don't see as many people in bars after smoking bans is because, smokers, like alcoholics, are addicts. Cut out one of their drugs, and they'll go somewhere else. I'd just as soon the addicts find somewhere to congregate, as opposed to my having to find somewhere to eat, etc.

I probably don't feel much stronger about smoking than some others who've posted here, but if I had to choose whether my kids would shoot up heroin or smoke, I'd have to think on it a while.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:28:49 AM EST
Smoke free bar here down the street went tits up soley because they didn't allow smoking - I liked the place because you could spend a couple of hours there and not reek of stale ciggy butts - however most of my friends didn't like it (because they had to go outside to smoke).

I don't really care for the stink of the things, but not enough to keep me out of the bars (that'd be crazy). +1 on fascisim.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:32:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Minneapolis and St. Paul are probably going to pass a smoking ban at all bars. This pisses me off to the nth degree even though I don't smoke. Bars are private property and have the right to do anything on their property that doesn't violate anyone else's rights. Some will say that smoking violates others rights but it clearly doesn't. Nobody is forcing anyone else to go inside that bar and breathe the second hand smoke. They all go on their own volition. If they don't want to breathe it they don't have to go to the bar. We don't need the nanny state government telling us what to do. What do you think about smoking bans?



Private industry with limitless government regulations? Market wise, truly fascist.

We're already there economically, but the control is not centralized (the political aspect isn't there), thus the sloppy definition.

PS IL has several smoking bans in the works. Bi-partisan effort.


Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:35:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By BGdave:
Guys I really hate it when people use words like Fascist, Genocide, Racism, etc to describe lesser realities. Fascism in my book is autocratic control of industry, commerce, finance and oppression of the opposition by force.

Maybe if people keep misusing the word it will come to mean anyone they disagree with or anyone with a gun. Carry on.............



I agree. But holding to exact definitions isn't a staple of linguistics, words change over time, so I just kinda go along with it and work with it as best I can. Smoking bans are not necessarily fascist- but the Sherman anti trust act is.



Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:35:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 10:36:28 AM EST by sam1963]
I live in NJ and they pass every law they can. I would like to see a no smoking law in all eating establishments. The bars I could care less about. So let them have a place to suck up some tar.
Smokers who smoke indoors and in public don't care about there health or what the do to others.
I cant stand to see a parent carring a baby with a cancer stick hanging out of ther head and the poor kid needs a scot pack. Why would anybody do that ?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:36:30 AM EST
Now a lot of places are claiming it's not to protect the patrons as they have free choice to not go, but rather the employees. Of course, one might say work elsewhere.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 11:30:15 AM EST
I was at Magic Mountian on a non busy day in SoCal and walked my girlfried over to the bathrooms. I waited out side for her in a shady spot all by my self which happened to be near a row of 5 Coke machines and lit up a ciggarete ( I ALWAYS try to segragate my self from everyone(nonsmokers) especially little kids when I smoke in public). There is literaly 20 Coke machines grouped in fives in this area where the bathrooms are. Well this bitch with her little kid walks up to the group of Coke machines where I was and and NOBODY was with in 50+ feet of me except for them. They wanted to buy a soda. So this lady starts putting her quartes in for her $2.50 bottle of Coke and pauses then walks over to me and and says "Excuse me, I dont think your allowed to smoke here?....fake Caugh, fake caugh, fake caugh" (all with a nasty look on her face)

I said back to her why not? we are not indoors... She didnt say anything and went on her way. Why would this lady come up to where I was and buy soda when she saw me smoking before she walked up? There were so many Coke machines in the same area that were closer to her with NO one using them.. I think she just wanted to give someone some shit and it was going to be me.

Ban Everything! Marlboro Lights will be added to the Assault weapon list in Cali pretty soon anyways.


Link Posted: 3/12/2005 12:13:43 PM EST
There is no way anybody should bitch at a smoker who is outside.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 8:50:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bosko:
I was at Magic Mountian on a non busy day in SoCal...................




You reply, "Then I suggest you make a citizens arrest. I have a concealed gun in my shorts. You should probably frisk me."
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 8:52:19 AM EST
If you don't like smoke, leave the bar.
Smoking bans in restaurants don't bug me but banning smoking in bars pisses me off.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:10:52 AM EST
oddly enough, a free market economy is absolutely capable of curing this "problem."

if there is a demand for non-smoking establishments, someone will supply them.

but we can't go around trusting a free market economy, now, can we?
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:13:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2005 10:15:38 AM EST by Dino]

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Minneapolis and St. Paul are probably going to pass a smoking ban at all bars. This pisses me off to the nth degree even though I don't smoke. Bars are private property and have the right to do anything on their property that doesn't violate anyone else's rights. Some will say that smoking violates others rights but it clearly doesn't. Nobody is forcing anyone else to go inside that bar and breathe the second hand smoke. They all go on their own volition. If they don't want to breathe it they don't have to go to the bar. We don't need the nanny state government telling us what to do. What do you think about smoking bans?



Honestly if its ok for the gov to tell people they can't smoke dope or shoot up heroin, its just as ok for them to tell people they can't smoke cigarettes.

I'm not a fan of any of those, but its legal for them to do so right now.

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:16:51 AM EST
Defy the laws, can't lock up thousands at the same time.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:01:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Minneapolis and St. Paul are probably going to pass a smoking ban at all bars. This pisses me off to the nth degree even though I don't smoke. Bars are private property and have the right to do anything on their property that doesn't violate anyone else's rights. Some will say that smoking violates others rights but it clearly doesn't. Nobody is forcing anyone else to go inside that bar and breathe the second hand smoke. They all go on their own volition. If they don't want to breathe it they don't have to go to the bar. We don't need the nanny state government telling us what to do. What do you think about smoking bans?



On the opposite side of that, People DONT HAVE to smoke. It's a choice. Just like me walking into that bar to play pool and drink alcohol. I shouldnt have to suffer lung cancer because of other's stupidity.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:06:16 AM EST
Smoking bans are not fascism, but assholism.

Bilster
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:09:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Defy the laws, can't lock up thousands at the same time.



hehe apparently you haven't heard of the War on Drugs

I full expect to see tobacco illegal before I die.

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:45:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Minneapolis and St. Paul are probably going to pass a smoking ban at all bars. This pisses me off to the nth degree even though I don't smoke. Bars are private property and have the right to do anything on their property that doesn't violate anyone else's rights. Some will say that smoking violates others rights but it clearly doesn't. Nobody is forcing anyone else to go inside that bar and breathe the second hand smoke. They all go on their own volition. If they don't want to breathe it they don't have to go to the bar. We don't need the nanny state government telling us what to do. What do you think about smoking bans?



On the opposite side of that, People DONT HAVE to smoke. It's a choice. Just like me walking into that bar to play pool and drink alcohol. I shouldnt have to suffer lung cancer because of other's stupidity.



You do not have to go into that bar. If a bar owner allows people to smoke they should be able to. If a bar owner wishes to have a smoke free establishment he is also within his rights.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:50:59 PM EST
I wish every smoker in the USA would quit tomorrow.

Then we would have the extreme pleasure of watching a lot of people run around screaming like fools, because all that tax money they were getting is now gone. They would have to tax the hell out of something else for a change. I'd really like to see that...

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:32:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

Originally Posted By BGdave:
Guys I really hate it when people use words like Fascist, Genocide, Racism, etc to describe lesser realities. Fascism in my book is autocratic control of industry, commerce, finance and oppression of the opposition by force.

Maybe if people keep misusing the word it will come to mean anyone they disagree with or anyone with a gun. Carry on.............



If it walks like a duck.... We have been approaching fascism in this nation since the 30s. Luckily we haven't gone totally in yet.



This is crap. Please show data that backs up your claim that since 1930 there is increased government control of industry, commerce, finance and oppression of the opposition by force. Not regulation, control.

Ain't no duck it's a frog.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:36:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2005 1:39:33 PM EST by migradog]
.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:39:01 PM EST
Where is the "Right" to smoke found? As opposed to the "right" to enjoy a meal etc. in a smoke free area?

And why would the "right" to smoke, supercede the "right" to a smoke free area?
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:41:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By migradog:
Where is the "Right" to smoke found? As opposed to the "right" to enjoy a meal etc. in a smoke free area?

And why would the "right" to smoke, supercede the "right" to a smoke free area?



It isn't found anywhere. As far as I'm concerend, it's a property rights issue. I don't have a right to eat where I can smoke, and you don't have a right to eat in a smoke-free environment. It should be up to the property owner. If either of us doesn't like it, we are free to leave. Simple. Neither of us have the "right" to be there in the first place.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:50:44 PM EST
Smoker Nazis strike again!
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:59:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Minneapolis and St. Paul are probably going to pass a smoking ban at all bars. This pisses me off to the nth degree even though I don't smoke. Bars are private property and have the right to do anything on their property that doesn't violate anyone else's rights. Some will say that smoking violates others rights but it clearly doesn't. Nobody is forcing anyone else to go inside that bar and breathe the second hand smoke. They all go on their own volition. If they don't want to breathe it they don't have to go to the bar. We don't need the nanny state government telling us what to do. What do you think about smoking bans?



I agree, however, I don't think that just because some business is privately owned that it shouldn't have

to meet certain specifications and guidelines for the welfare of the consumer.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 2:54:25 PM EST
I like the way they do it in my state ( NJ ) just keep taxing the hell out of them. I get a good laugh each time I see some fool handing over a five doller bill for a pack. Make them so high people are forced to make a choice between cigs or food.
I rather spend it on ammo.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:00:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By sam1963:
I like the way they do it in my state ( NJ ) just keep taxing the hell out of them. I get a good laugh each time I see some fool handing over a five doller bill for a pack. Make them so high people are forced to make a choice between cigs or food.
I rather spend it on ammo.



How would you feel if they taxed ammo like that? All sin taxes are bullshit.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:06:14 PM EST
I pay my 6%
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:58:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

How would you feel if they taxed ammo like that? All sin taxes are bullshit.





Bullshit is finding out at 32 years old you have lung cancer from exposure to second-hand smoke.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 4:12:45 PM EST
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Pot Smokers
and I did not speak out
because eveb though I was a Pot Smoker, I was pretty fucking high at the time.
Then they came for the Cigarette smokers
and I did not speak out
because I'd already paid Philip Morris the equivalent of a brand new C230 for my smokes before I wised up and quit the stupid habit,
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 4:27:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2005 4:28:46 PM EST by Carbine10]

This is how the Liberals played it in Kalifornia.

1st passed smoking ban state wide. early to mid 1990's.

2nd passed state ABW ban. mid to late 1990's.

3rd passed state .50BMG ban. mid 2001's.

4th confiscated all guns. soon.



So this is how it will work, in your state to.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 5:41:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By migradog:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

How would you feel if they taxed ammo like that? All sin taxes are bullshit.





Bullshit is finding out at 32 years old you have lung cancer from exposure to second-hand smoke.



It is your choice to associate with smokers. We all know the risks we take.
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