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Posted: 11/16/2011 4:45:03 PM EDT
Since the House passed National CCW today and we know the scum bags dems in the Senate will never pass it does anyone know how long the Bill can hang in limbo?

In other words can we keep this alive long enough to capture the Senate and White House?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68541.html
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 4:46:12 PM EDT
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 4:48:31 PM EDT
i think it will pass the senate. but i think its a toss up if Zero signs it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 4:49:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zipzipzipper:
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.
WTF are you talking about?

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 4:51:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zipzipzipper:
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.


don't worry, won't make it out of senate committee. If it does and passes Barry won't sign it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 4:53:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Originally Posted By zipzipzipper:
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.


don't worry, won't make it out of senate committee. If it does and passes Barry won't sign it.
So can anyone address my question as to , can we keep it alive from the house vote until we get the senate & white house?

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 4:54:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By zipzipzipper:
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.
WTF are you talking about?



State rights

It is bad law, but the 10th amendment is dead. I would vote for it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 4:55:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Originally Posted By zipzipzipper:
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.


don't worry, won't make it out of senate committee. If it does and passes Barry won't sign it.
So can anyone address my question as to , can we keep it alive from the house vote until we get the senate & white house?



No

It has to come up again

Be thankful. This shit works both ways
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 4:56:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Originally Posted By zipzipzipper:
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.


don't worry, won't make it out of senate committee. If it does and passes Barry won't sign it.
So can anyone address my question as to , can we keep it alive from the house vote until we get the senate & white house?



Doesn't matter. Pass the bill out of the House when we control the Senate and White House.

My guess is that the bill dies when the current session of Congress expires.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 4:56:08 PM EDT

Go ahead and veto it Obama, you POS.

Its time to start setting out the choices people have in whom to vote for.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 4:58:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By delemorte:
i think it will pass the senate. but i think its a toss up if Zero signs it.


This. I think its going to pass senate and 70/30 The silver tounged devil signs it
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:00:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Originally Posted By zipzipzipper:
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.


don't worry, won't make it out of senate committee. If it does and passes Barry won't sign it.
So can anyone address my question as to , can we keep it alive from the house vote until we get the senate & white house?



No. At the end of each Congress, all bills die. It would have to be re-introduced in the new Congress.

If Harry Reid wants a better NRA rating, ( which seems to be important to him ) he will have to bring it to a vote )

I think there may be enough pro-gun dems in the senate to pass it.

Will zero sign it, he might in an attempt to get the independents back, or he might not in order to shore up his base.

Nobody knows, not even him.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:06:06 PM EDT
Just a set up for the fedgov to take more control over gun regs.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:08:12 PM EDT
Under the radar gun control is somewhere being worked on.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:10:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TX80:
Just a set up for the fedgov to take more control over gun regs.


Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this the national receprocity bill? How is that setting up the fed gov to take control of anything. All it does is require other states to honor any states CCP. How is this different than being allowed to drive in PA with a NY drivers license?
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:11:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 5:14:24 PM EDT by ABNAK]
When and if the "Full Faith and Credit" clause of the Constitution is used to make force all states accept and recognize gay marriage then national CCW *should* be a given. Of course Libtards pick and choose what the Constitution covers......
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:12:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By TX80:
Just a set up for the fedgov to take more control over gun regs.


Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this the national receprocity bill? How is that setting up the fed gov to take control of anything. All it does is require other states to honor any states CCP. How is this different than being allowed to drive in PA with a NY drivers license?


It's not, stop using sound logic, it fucks up GD. It doesn't matter that it would take a whole different bill to do anything else, just like it would without this bill being law. How dare the fed govt pass a law saying that states can not infringe on the right to keep and bare arms of non-residents if they allow some of their residents to walk around armed.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:22:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TX80:
Just a set up for the fedgov to take more control over gun regs.


Would it be too much to ask for you to present a cogent argument?

For example, here is what I found on the NRA_ILA site

It is important to note that, despite what a handful of self-proclaimed "pro-gun" activists claim, H.R. 822 would not create a federal registration or licensing system, nor would it establish a minimum federal standard for a carry permit. Rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize driver's licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Unfortunately, these self-proclaimed "gun rights" supporters, who have no active lobbying presence in Congress or any legislature, have an agenda that has very little to do with promoting the interests of gun owners.


I have yet to hear a well-reasoned argument to support the assertion that this bill is a bad thing, but I am willing to be educated.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:23:01 PM EDT
I like this bill , a minor step in reinforcing the 2nd amendment and pissing off all the nut jobs that are opposing it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:23:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Since the House passed National CCW today and we know the scum bags dems in the Senate will never pass it does anyone know how long the Bill can hang in limbo?

In other words can we keep this alive long enough to capture the Senate and White House?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68541.html


It's very likely to pass the Senate.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:24:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By TX80:
Just a set up for the fedgov to take more control over gun regs.


Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this the national receprocity bill? How is that setting up the fed gov to take control of anything. All it does is require other states to honor any states CCP. How is this different than being allowed to drive in PA with a NY drivers license?


It is, and it isn't "a set up for the fedgov to take more control" over anything.

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:25:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By TX80:
Just a set up for the fedgov to take more control over gun regs.


Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this the national receprocity bill? How is that setting up the fed gov to take control of anything. All it does is require other states to honor any states CCP. How is this different than being allowed to drive in PA with a NY drivers license?


It's not, stop using sound logic, it fucks up GD. It doesn't matter that it would take a whole different bill to do anything else, just like it would without this bill being law. How dare the fed govt pass a law saying that states can not infringe on the right to keep and bare arms of non-residents if they allow some of their residents to walk around armed.

The cynic in me says it's setting precedent for the government to pass more gun laws. If everyone has to recognize the federal law then there should be some uniformity to requirements, right?

Personally, I think more localized authority is better. They need to repeal old gun laws instead of making more.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:26:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By zipzipzipper:
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.
WTF are you talking about?




Do a search for threads started by that poster.

Enjoy.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:27:08 PM EDT
Read the bill, very harmless, just a small step in the right direction
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:29:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 5:32:06 PM EDT by Turboguy1]
Originally Posted By delemorte:
i think it will pass the senate. but i think its a toss up if Zero signs it.


This will have a poison pill AWB attached to it before it gets signed, and it absolutely *WILL* have a new AWB on it. BET ON IT.

This is *NOT* A good thing folks.

There's a Feinstein and Shumer dying for this bill to make it to the Senate.

ETA: And the Republicans will vote for it even if it's got a new non expiring AWB on it. They should have fucking waited until *AFTER* the election before they opened this can of worms.

This is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA­AAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:33:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By TX80:
Just a set up for the fedgov to take more control over gun regs.


Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this the national receprocity bill? How is that setting up the fed gov to take control of anything. All it does is require other states to honor any states CCP. How is this different than being allowed to drive in PA with a NY drivers license?


It's not, stop using sound logic, it fucks up GD. It doesn't matter that it would take a whole different bill to do anything else, just like it would without this bill being law. How dare the fed govt pass a law saying that states can not infringe on the right to keep and bare arms of non-residents if they allow some of their residents to walk around armed.

States view drivers licenses as a privilege. I don't want the feds to reinforce this precedent, that carrying a firearm is a privilege. Even my home state of VA calls our CHPs a statutory privilege...something that the state grants you the ability to do, and can take away. VA has open carry which the state says satisfies our right to bear arms. I don't see anything in our state constitution that mentions open or concealed....

Of course I'd love to be able to carry into DC and Maryland as a VA resident.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:34:44 PM EDT
The house will kill it if it comes back screwed up, did you guys sleep thru civics class in high school
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:35:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach:
How dare the fed govt pass a law saying that states can not infringe on the right to keep and bare arms of non-residents if they allow some of their residents to walk around armed.


on the flip side, why shouldn't I be able to cary in MD (where i now live) if this bill passes, when I would have been able to if I were still a FL resident (where I got my permit).
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:36:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By watchwatch:
Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By zipzipzipper:
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.
WTF are you talking about?



State rights

It is bad law, but the 10th amendment is dead. I would vote for it.
I've got mixed feelings as well. I'm a 10th Amendment guy myself and don't care for the Federal Govt. getting into state's business. But this is a constitutional right. If some state decided to impose censorship(which is what everybody already does indirectly through all the PC bullshit), we wouldn't stand for it. Why do we allow states to individually restrict our constitutional right to keep and bear arms?

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:37:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
i think it will pass the senate. but i think its a toss up if Zero signs it.


This will have a poison pill AWB attached to it before it gets signed, and it absolutely *WILL* have a new AWB on it. BET ON IT.

This is *NOT* A good thing folks.

There's a Feinstein and Shumer dying for this bill to make it to the Senate.

ETA: And the Republicans will vote for it even if it's got a new non expiring AWB on it. They should have fucking waited until *AFTER* the election before they opened this can of worms.

This is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA­AAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!




It just passed the house with ZERO amendments. If the Senate adds something bad to it, the house will kill it.

But we have a pro-gun majority leader in the Senate, and this has been passed in the Senate before. It's not "bad", and if it comes to a silly scenario like you're claiming, it will simply be killed.

You do realize, do you not, that even the dems won't vote for an AWB, right? Out side of a couple of ideological morons, gun control is dead.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:39:39 PM EDT
Guam is going to capsize next.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:41:57 PM EDT
Because it's a really narrow island, who is that nut job and what state.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:43:15 PM EDT
I'm so glad none of you complain about state's rights when it comes to driver's licenses
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:43:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Josh:
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
i think it will pass the senate. but i think its a toss up if Zero signs it.


This will have a poison pill AWB attached to it before it gets signed, and it absolutely *WILL* have a new AWB on it. BET ON IT.

This is *NOT* A good thing folks.

There's a Feinstein and Shumer dying for this bill to make it to the Senate.

ETA: And the Republicans will vote for it even if it's got a new non expiring AWB on it. They should have fucking waited until *AFTER* the election before they opened this can of worms.

This is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA­AAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!




It just passed the house with ZERO amendments. If the Senate adds something bad to it, the house will kill it.

But we have a pro-gun majority leader in the Senate, and this has been passed in the Senate before. It's not "bad", and if it comes to a silly scenario like you're claiming, it will simply be killed.

You do realize, do you not, that even the dems won't vote for an AWB, right? Out side of a couple of ideological morons, gun control is dead.


No way is an AWB going to be put in play. Barry wouldn't sign it during an election year if he wants any chance of getting re-elected. He needs to rep himself as a moderate to get any chance of re-election.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:43:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ElCoyote:
Guam is going to capsize next.


That's what I'm afraid of

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:44:38 PM EDT
Session of Congress dies, all unsigned/unpassed legislation dies IIRC.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:45:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By Josh:
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
i think it will pass the senate. but i think its a toss up if Zero signs it.


This will have a poison pill AWB attached to it before it gets signed, and it absolutely *WILL* have a new AWB on it. BET ON IT.

This is *NOT* A good thing folks.

There's a Feinstein and Shumer dying for this bill to make it to the Senate.

ETA: And the Republicans will vote for it even if it's got a new non expiring AWB on it. They should have fucking waited until *AFTER* the election before they opened this can of worms.

This is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA­AAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!




It just passed the house with ZERO amendments. If the Senate adds something bad to it, the house will kill it.

But we have a pro-gun majority leader in the Senate, and this has been passed in the Senate before. It's not "bad", and if it comes to a silly scenario like you're claiming, it will simply be killed.

You do realize, do you not, that even the dems won't vote for an AWB, right? Out side of a couple of ideological morons, gun control is dead.


No way is an AWB going to be put in play. Barry wouldn't sign it during an election year if he wants any chance of getting re-elected. He needs to rep himself as a moderate to get any chance of re-election.


Exactly..
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:45:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By novaDAK:

Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By TX80:
Just a set up for the fedgov to take more control over gun regs.


Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this the national receprocity bill? How is that setting up the fed gov to take control of anything. All it does is require other states to honor any states CCP. How is this different than being allowed to drive in PA with a NY drivers license?


It's not, stop using sound logic, it fucks up GD. It doesn't matter that it would take a whole different bill to do anything else, just like it would without this bill being law. How dare the fed govt pass a law saying that states can not infringe on the right to keep and bare arms of non-residents if they allow some of their residents to walk around armed.

States view drivers licenses as a privilege. I don't want the feds to reinforce this precedent, that carrying a firearm is a privilege. Even my home state of VA calls our CHPs a statutory privilege...something that the state grants you the ability to do, and can take away. VA has open carry which the state says satisfies our right to bear arms. I don't see anything in our state constitution that mentions open or concealed....

Of course I'd love to be able to carry into DC and Maryland as a VA resident.


Carrying concealed is a privilege too.

"Keep and Bear Arms" should mean open carry. There's no historical precedence for that meaning concealed carry.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:46:03 PM EDT
This will pass the senate, as Reed (who is pretty pro-gun) will bring it up for a vote. Whether or not Obama signs it...we'll see. It would be a good albatross to hang around his neck come election time should he choose to veto it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:47:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
i think it will pass the senate. but i think its a toss up if Zero signs it.


This will have a poison pill AWB attached to it before it gets signed, and it absolutely *WILL* have a new AWB on it. BET ON IT.

This is *NOT* A good thing folks.

There's a Feinstein and Shumer dying for this bill to make it to the Senate.

ETA: And the Republicans will vote for it even if it's got a new non expiring AWB on it. They should have fucking waited until *AFTER* the election before they opened this can of worms.

This is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA­AAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!

Homework assignment: Find out what happened to the last bill the Democrat Party tried to attach an AWB to.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:49:59 PM EDT
BHO will not sign this unless they can tack on some BS that just screws us in the long run.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:51:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Capt-Planet:
Originally Posted By novaDAK:

Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By TX80:
Just a set up for the fedgov to take more control over gun regs.


Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this the national receprocity bill? How is that setting up the fed gov to take control of anything. All it does is require other states to honor any states CCP. How is this different than being allowed to drive in PA with a NY drivers license?


It's not, stop using sound logic, it fucks up GD. It doesn't matter that it would take a whole different bill to do anything else, just like it would without this bill being law. How dare the fed govt pass a law saying that states can not infringe on the right to keep and bare arms of non-residents if they allow some of their residents to walk around armed.

States view drivers licenses as a privilege. I don't want the feds to reinforce this precedent, that carrying a firearm is a privilege. Even my home state of VA calls our CHPs a statutory privilege...something that the state grants you the ability to do, and can take away. VA has open carry which the state says satisfies our right to bear arms. I don't see anything in our state constitution that mentions open or concealed....

Of course I'd love to be able to carry into DC and Maryland as a VA resident.


Carrying concealed is a privilege too.

"Keep and Bear Arms" should mean open carry. There's no historical precedence for that meaning concealed carry.

Concealed carry is a right, just as open carry. Concealed carry has been around just as long as open carry.

It's been said that George Mason's hand is in his coat in his portrait because he carried a pistol there.



‘‘To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.’’
-George Mason
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:51:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hourglassing:
Originally Posted By TX80:
Just a set up for the fedgov to take more control over gun regs.


Would it be too much to ask for you to present a cogent argument?

For example, here is what I found on the NRA_ILA site

It is important to note that, despite what a handful of self-proclaimed "pro-gun" activists claim, H.R. 822 would not create a federal registration or licensing system, nor would it establish a minimum federal standard for a carry permit. Rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize driver's licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Unfortunately, these self-proclaimed "gun rights" supporters, who have no active lobbying presence in Congress or any legislature, have an agenda that has very little to do with promoting the interests of gun owners.


I have yet to hear a well-reasoned argument to support the assertion that this bill is a bad thing, but I am willing to be educated.

NRA sends me junk mail, and I am illiterate.

Fuck the NRA.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:53:19 PM EDT
I think the Tenth Amendment is a catch all for "everything we didn't put in the Constitution already" and as such the Second Amendment isn't really affected. If one state required you to have a permit to practice your religion, publish your blog, or protest an unfair government policy, and this permit was not recognized by another state, the Federal government would not be out of line to compel other states to recognize your right to freedom of speech, religion, etc.

Gay marriage, abortion, marijuana, etc, are completely different debates because they are not mentioned in the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights. I think HR 822 is a step in the right direction.

Besides, I have a valid GA permit and live in CA, probably moving to HI soon, so this bill helps me directly
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:53:50 PM EDT
I am assuming it is just another step towards Constitutional carry, right?
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:56:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Josh:
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
i think it will pass the senate. but i think its a toss up if Zero signs it.


This will have a poison pill AWB attached to it before it gets signed, and it absolutely *WILL* have a new AWB on it. BET ON IT.

This is *NOT* A good thing folks.

There's a Feinstein and Shumer dying for this bill to make it to the Senate.

ETA: And the Republicans will vote for it even if it's got a new non expiring AWB on it. They should have fucking waited until *AFTER* the election before they opened this can of worms.

This is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA­AAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!




It just passed the house with ZERO amendments. If the Senate adds something bad to it, the house will kill it.

But we have a pro-gun majority leader in the Senate, and this has been passed in the Senate before. It's not "bad", and if it comes to a silly scenario like you're claiming, it will simply be killed.

You do realize, do you not, that even the dems won't vote for an AWB, right? Out side of a couple of ideological morons, gun control is dead.


Check your facts....I think they did add one amendment......if you have one fact wrong..what else do you have wrong?

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:57:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Turboguy1:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
i think it will pass the senate. but i think its a toss up if Zero signs it.


This will have a poison pill AWB attached to it before it gets signed, and it absolutely *WILL* have a new AWB on it. BET ON IT.

This is *NOT* A good thing folks.

There's a Feinstein and Shumer dying for this bill to make it to the Senate.

ETA: And the Republicans will vote for it even if it's got a new non expiring AWB on it. They should have fucking waited until *AFTER* the election before they opened this can of worms.

This is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA­AAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!




Why not attach an AWB to any of the 87 bills that pass the Senate every week?
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:57:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By watchwatch:
Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By zipzipzipper:
Ultra vires. This legislation is shit.
WTF are you talking about?



State rights

It is bad law, but the 10th amendment is dead. I would vote for it.


Oh, here we go. My, and your, gun rights are not a fucking state's rights issue.

Why should people on California, NYC, and others have to be less equal that everyone else when it comes to gun rights?

Ya know, George Wallace screamed "state's rights" when he stood in the doorway and UofA, don't you.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:57:59 PM EDT
I fear this might be a stepping stone to a federal issued CCW.
And who knows what requirements you would have to have to get one.
I say leave it the way it is.
The way it is now the lib states just get less tourism money.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:58:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Badlatitude:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
i think it will pass the senate. but i think its a toss up if Zero signs it.


This. I think its going to pass senate and 70/30 The silver tounged devil signs it


I would like to have some of whatever it is you two are smoking.

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 5:59:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Greenfeet:

Besides, I have a valid GA permit and live in CA, probably moving to HI soon, so this bill helps me directly


Not if you become a resident of CA or HI. Then your GA permit would be a non-resident permit and will not help you.

The same thing with me since I moved to MD. Now my FL permit is a non-resident... even though then never mailed me a new one without my FL address on it.
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