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Posted: 9/17/2005 9:11:16 PM EDT
Questione!

If you shoot corrosive in a weapon, folks will say "squirt Ammonia Windex down the bbl."

I say, clean the bore with one of the copper-removers that have ammonia solvents like Sweets 7.62 or Shooter's Choice Copper Remover, or Blue Wonder.

That should prevent weirdness from happening to your bores, right?
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 9:12:06 PM EDT
Warm soapy water, Hoppes 9 afterwards. Problem solved.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 9:13:37 PM EDT
The key word is "clean".

"squirt Ammonia Windex down the bbl" is the quick and easy way to clean the barrel after a day at the range shooting corrosive ammo.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 9:18:49 PM EDT
Soapy water that is warm, dry patches, hoppes, mild oil


Just like shooting Black Powder
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 9:22:03 PM EDT
tagged because I had the same stupid, silly question. We all learn by asking questions, and then by listening, so I am listening.

How does one differentiate between corrosive ammo and non-corrosive ammo?
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 9:29:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 9:56:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:

Originally Posted By richardh247:

How does one differentiate between corrosive ammo and non-corrosive ammo?



If you didnt get it off the shelf at K-mart, just consider it corrosive and you cant go wrong.



So, a warm, soapy barrel wash for all of my 8mm's and my Garand? I mean, can you be more specific, please? I don't want to mess up my bbls, but some of the ammo prices are ridiculous.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 10:02:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 10:05:16 PM EDT by TacticalPenguin]
Corrosive ammunition contains chemicals in the priming compound that turn into salts when fired, the salts absorb moisture from the air which of course leads to corrosion in your barrel.

Even M2 ball can be corrosive, I have a case that is. Just clean with soapy water....


Black Powder is corrsovie but it is the powder resdue that absorbs moisture like a sponge on that one

Edited because you asked how to tell..... You can smell the difference in corrosive ammunition and non corrosive. ALso you cna do a search on the headstamp.

Some ammunition is always corrosive, all the Czech .308 on the market is corrosive, some of the 7.62x25 is, that you have to check by manufacturer. 8mm is a crap shoot, ebst to check on a C&R forum or ammunition forum. On the internet soemone will know
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 10:46:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By richardh247:

Originally Posted By tc6969:

Originally Posted By richardh247:

How does one differentiate between corrosive ammo and non-corrosive ammo?



If you didnt get it off the shelf at K-mart, just consider it corrosive and you cant go wrong.



So, a warm, soapy barrel wash for all of my 8mm's and my Garand? I mean, can you be more specific, please? I don't want to mess up my bbls, but some of the ammo prices are ridiculous.



I mix a little dish soap with some water and then use it to swab the bore out good, then use some dry patch to dry the bore out, then let the gun set until it is completely dry, and then clean as usual. I learned the hard way with my M48 that CLP will not remove the corrosive compounds.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 11:18:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 11:23:25 PM EDT by Noname]
The main thing, regardless of what you use to clean the bore, is that it has to be water based.

After first cleaning--------------go back and use your usual cleaner (like CLP) to make sure you get the water out.


Go back in 2-3 days and inspect to make sure nothing is growing in there and mop again with CLP.



It's no biggie shooting corrosive ammo--------------you just need to stay on top of the cleaning...!



home.sprynet.com/~frfrog2/homemade.htm
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 9:29:03 AM EDT
Thanks, responders.

Bump for Day Crew Guidance!
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 9:59:32 AM EDT
As mentioned, it is the corrosive priming salts that cause the problem. Oil will not remove these salts.

I recently bought some cheap 8mm ammo to shoot in my M-1948 Yugo mauser. The rifle is new and has a new (and perfect) bore.

I just shoot the cheap corrosive ammo till I'm finished for the day. I bring a bottle of Ammonia Windex to the range with me. I spray the Windex down the bore and pass a patch through the bore a few times. I usually repeat this several times, until the patches are clean. Then I dry the bore and spray WD-40 in it till I get home.

Once home, I clean the bore with the usual bore cleaning procedure. In my case, I use a half and half mixture of Shooter's Choice and Kroil. I scrub it with a bore brush, wipe it clean and then lightly oil the bore before putting it in the safe.

Remember......You only get one chance to have a perfect bore. Forget to clean out those corrosive salts just once, and the bore will never be perfect again.

And, I don't shoot corrosive ammo in my Garand. There are too many "nooks and crannys" in a semi-auto for the salts to hide in. I only shoot corrosive ammo in bolt actions.

Link Posted: 9/18/2005 10:03:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2005 10:04:03 AM EDT by slimslade]
Key word is Ballistol.


www.ballistol.com
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 10:29:24 AM EDT
Ammonia neutralizes the corrosive salts from corrosive ammo... IMO you really need to use a cleaner with ammonia to make sure.

BUT a word of warning…

Ammonia will eat blue on a gun, so when you clean with ammonia you must also wipe down any blued surfaces and oil them.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 12:31:37 PM EDT
Don't forget to clean all of the other surfaces that come nto contact with the burning gases. I learned that the hard way with my FN49.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 12:56:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

In my case, I use a half and half mixture of Shooter's Choice and Kroil.




I knew we thought along the same lines.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 2:40:17 PM EDT
OK, so is Wolf Steel or White Bear Steel in 7.62x39 corrosive?

What about this 30.06 I have? The only markings on it are an "F" and "N" and "57."

Plwase tell me all three of those are ok.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 3:02:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Ammonia neutralizes the corrosive salts from corrosive ammo... IMO you really need to use a cleaner with ammonia to make sure.

BUT a word of warning…

Ammonia will eat blue on a gun, so when you clean with ammonia you must also wipe down any blued surfaces and oil them.




Ammonia acts as a solvent (oil etc) and attacks the copper fouling------------the water (which is the major ingredient in ammonia) is what neutralizes the salts.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 3:07:40 PM EDT
everyone that said WATER is correct. it is only the water in the windex etc that neutralizes the corrosive salts. after you do that clean as normal. don't forget to clean the bolt.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 3:15:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By richardh247:
OK, so is Wolf Steel or White Bear Steel in 7.62x39 corrosive?



No.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 3:28:50 PM EDT
First off-- what slimslade sez-- Ballistol-- do yourselves a favor and look it up. Good stuff, and has been around for 100 years---. I still like to scrub my bores down to bare metal when I can, but Ballistol STOPS any corrosion from corrosive ammo immediately. Most likely the reason so many armies used Ballistol for so many years to begin with. When I go camping and shooting for a week or so, I just pull a bore snake with Ballistol through each night, wipe the metal down with a ballistol soaked rag, and scrub when I get home. I shoot a LOT of corrosive ammo, and I have yet to have a problem.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 7:05:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By freewilly:
First off-- what slimslade sez-- Ballistol-- do yourselves a favor and look it up. Good stuff, and has been around for 100 years---. I still like to scrub my bores down to bare metal when I can, but Ballistol STOPS any corrosion from corrosive ammo immediately. Most likely the reason so many armies used Ballistol for so many years to begin with. When I go camping and shooting for a week or so, I just pull a bore snake with Ballistol through each night, wipe the metal down with a ballistol soaked rag, and scrub when I get home. I shoot a LOT of corrosive ammo, and I have yet to have a problem.



Thanks for the head's up on the Ballistol.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 9:19:27 PM EDT
FWIW, HOT water is medicine for Garands and other Gas Guns.

The salts get into EVERYTHING, trigger mechanism, everything. I saw am M1 ruined because they simply cleaned the bore and bolt face.

The trick is to soak the thing long enough in VERY hot water to heat the steel and get the water to evaporate off.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 9:36:58 PM EDT
Tagiferus Maximus
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 9:50:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Ammonia neutralizes the corrosive salts from corrosive ammo... IMO you really need to use a cleaner with ammonia to make sure.

BUT a word of warning…

Ammonia will eat blue on a gun, so when you clean with ammonia you must also wipe down any blued surfaces and oil them.




Ammonia acts as a solvent (oil etc) and attacks the copper fouling------------the water (which is the major ingredient in ammonia) is what neutralizes the salts.



+1

Ammonia does nothing to the corrosive salts!!! How many times does this have to be corrected? It is the water in windex that does the job, the Ammonia only helps with copper fouling.

So many times I have heard people say they use Ammonia from the store and say that it does the job on corrosive ammo. They fail to understand that most consumer-grade Ammonia is no more than about 10%. Guess what the other 90% is? WATER. That is what leads some to think that using pure "Ammonia" will clean out the corrosive salts.

Of course, you could always just use Hoppe's #9 to clean after using corrosive ammo since it cleans out corrosive fouling. I use it in my Mosin Nagants and 98k after shooting surplus ammo and I have never gotten rust. It says it cleans corrosive primer fouling on the bottle, and #9 has been around since the days of corrosive primers, so it would have had to take care of that problem during cleaning.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 9:54:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By piccolo:
FWIW, HOT water is medicine for Garands and other Gas Guns.

The salts get into EVERYTHING, trigger mechanism, everything. I saw am M1 ruined because they simply cleaned the bore and bolt face.

The trick is to soak the thing long enough in VERY hot water to heat the steel and get the water to evaporate off.



Christ, you guys are making me very uncomfortable with this talk. Since Clint Fowler (look him up) accurized my Garand, I have been very reluctant to take it apart (2000) I have like 600 rounds downrange and haven't cleaned the gas tube yet. I'm afraid I'll screw up the laser-like accuracy the gun now routinely displays, but I know I should get in there and hose her out.

I wonder how carboned up it is? I live in Denver, one of the driest places on earth, and am liberal with the gun oil, so I hope I've prevented any corrosive tragedies...
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:22:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 4:23:01 AM EDT by Old_Painless]

Originally Posted By samsong:

Originally Posted By piccolo:
FWIW, HOT water is medicine for Garands and other Gas Guns.

The salts get into EVERYTHING, trigger mechanism, everything. I saw am M1 ruined because they simply cleaned the bore and bolt face.

The trick is to soak the thing long enough in VERY hot water to heat the steel and get the water to evaporate off.



Christ, you guys are making me very uncomfortable with this talk. Since Clint Fowler (look him up) accurized my Garand, I have been very reluctant to take it apart (2000) I have like 600 rounds downrange and haven't cleaned the gas tube yet. I'm afraid I'll screw up the laser-like accuracy the gun now routinely displays, but I know I should get in there and hose her out.

I wonder how carboned up it is? I live in Denver, one of the driest places on earth, and am liberal with the gun oil, so I hope I've prevented any corrosive tragedies...



You probably have only shot non-corrosive ammo in it, unless you are shooting very old military surplus ammo.

Modern ammo is non-corrosive and will not cause rust in your Garand. Carbon primarily builds up in the bore and gas system. It is easy to remove, but will not be really bad about causing rust. It can attract moisture, but nothing like corrosive primer salts.

And cleaning materials made from oil will remove carbon. They will not remove corrosive salts.

Just stick with non-corrosive ammo and you will be fine.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:01:04 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:10:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Ammonia neutralizes the corrosive salts from corrosive ammo... IMO you really need to use a cleaner with ammonia to make sure.



No, it does not. This is an Internet myth that just won't go away.

You need water to flush the salts out of your bore. Ammonia does not "neutralize" salt. The reason that Windex works to prevent rust from corrosively primed ammunition is because it is mostly water. The ammonia in Windex will work on any copper fouling in the bore, however.

The easiest way to clean a gun after shooting corrosive ammo is to first swab the bore using a couple of patches wet with Windex, windshield wiper fluid, or plain old water. Then dry patch it, followed up with your regular bore cleaner, e.g., Hoppe's No.9 or CLP.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:17:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

You probably have only shot non-corrosive ammo in it, unless you are shooting very old military surplus ammo.

Modern ammo is non-corrosive and will not cause rust in your Garand. Carbon primarily builds up in the bore and gas system. It is easy to remove, but will not be really bad about causing rust. It can attract moisture, but nothing like corrosive primer salts.

And cleaning materials made from oil will remove carbon. They will not remove corrosive salts.

Just stick with non-corrosive ammo and you will be fine.



Thanks for the head's up, OP. I have been shooting MG (blacktip) ammo out of the gun. Year of manufacture is as early as 1953. I sure hope the USGI stuff was loaded with non-corrosive. I haven't seen any evidence of rust in the bore.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:31:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Ammonia neutralizes the corrosive salts from corrosive ammo... IMO you really need to use a cleaner with ammonia to make sure.

BUT a word of warning…

Ammonia will eat blue on a gun, so when you clean with ammonia you must also wipe down any blued surfaces and oil them.



Not even close. Nothing will neutralize potassium chloride. It does not absorb moisture but rather with moisture, it allows electron flow which is the mechanism of corrosion.

Cleaning with a water-based cleaner and lots of it is the fastest way of removing these salts. Be warned, these salts are layered with nitrocellulose residue which isn't removed by some cleaners. Repeat often and check after a few days to be sure.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:25:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:

Thanks for the head's up, OP. I have been shooting MG (blacktip) ammo out of the gun. Year of manufacture is as early as 1953. I sure hope the USGI stuff was loaded with non-corrosive. I haven't seen any evidence of rust in the bore.



Black tip is AP. If it is 1953, it may be corrosive. I believe the last military corrosive was produced in the 1953-54 time frame.

Check your bore carefully.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:20:31 PM EDT
Get some of the USGI WW2 rifle bore cleaner, this was made to clean up after firing corrosive ammo. I see this for sale on eBay all the time.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:53:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By samsong:

Thanks for the head's up, OP. I have been shooting MG (blacktip) ammo out of the gun. Year of manufacture is as early as 1953. I sure hope the USGI stuff was loaded with non-corrosive. I haven't seen any evidence of rust in the bore.



Black tip is AP. If it is 1953, it may be corrosive. I believe the last military corrosive was produced in the 1953-54 time frame.

Check your bore carefully.



[checking!!]
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