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Posted: 7/22/2002 7:56:50 PM EDT
If you guys are interested then put your name down so we can see if this things do-able.
This is just a first step to see if we can manage it. This seems do-able ,anyone have any thoughts on if they think we could pull this off? Quoted: Quoted: redray If we got 1000 members to go in on this ,it's only 800 bucks a man or woman,if we got only 500 ,it's still only 1600 per person. Come on guys AR15.com heaven [:D] View Quote or even 250 people at $3200 each, wouldnt be a bad investment. there is a house and for pete's sake, 1170 acres!!! and a pond! ARgon (Tony) do you know where this place is exactly? might visit this weekend. click here to view the property: [url]http://www.bigbearrevt.com/2014.asp[/url] View Quote [img]http://www.bigbearrevt.com/images/2014.jpg[/img] |
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Shit, I'm in... where is it though? If you say northern Canada, I'm gonna slap you around with a trout! [=P]
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Quoted: Shit, I'm in... where is it though? If you say northern Canada, I'm gonna slap you around with a trout! [=P] View Quote Would that be in a nice garlic and butter sauce? No it's in northern vermont and i really think we could have an AR15 retreat with a full auto range and all kinds of goodies goatboy. If 250 people go in on this and each member is responsible for building his or her own cabin it would be great,and we wouldn't have any trouble finding a perm. caretaker/armorer either. Goatboy i was being serious by the way ,i have seen other org's do simular things and it has worked out great. |
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I would be in, but finding people to do this is going to be difficult... Here's a few random thoughts:
1) The Gov sees our "AR15.Com" compound and sends in Reno and her goons... (She comes out of retirement to put on the foil!) 2) 1200 acres with 250 people may not float well since its 250 people all with their own goals, dreams, ideas, etc. 3) Perhaps with 50 or less it could work, but can we even find 50 who would be interested in north eastern hunting land in vermont??? ($16,000 per person... relatively easy loan to swing since it's basically another car payment if spread over 5 years, less if spread over more!) 4) The hunting trips and friendships could be amazing, but imagine what happens when one or more people are upset by something one person does. 5) The land would need to be evenly divided, with a common area for housing (say over 50-100 acres) this keeps everyone close together and the bulk of the land for hunting, fishing, etc. 6) Is there serious interest in this. [=)] Keep me posted and feel free to discuss it via email, but something like this is VERY hard to organize and complete... |
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i was serious too. i think its a good investment, besides being a good HQ(?)!! for AR15.COM (east coast chapter)he-he. so theres three of us, 247 more investors to go! the house that comes with the property can be the clubhouse (i havent seen the condition its in). like i told ARgon, i might drive up there this weekend and take some pictures. ill be more than happy to post it here if you guys are interested.
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Ok ,Does anyone want to get involved with this and see what we can do?
I have access to some moble homes we can use and keep and i have access to log suppliers at wholesale $$ and i have a guy that can put in septic systems for about 2 grand and a whole host of other contacts. If you want a for instance,the log package for the lodge i want to build on the other property and would be 10,000 sq. ft. would cost 74,000 ,that covers the exterior walls and interior walls and beams and rafters. [url]http://www.wholesaleloghomes.com/prices.html[/url] |
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It looks nice now but what does it look like in January when it's buried in 40 feet of snow?
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For $684 an acre, I'd be in for 4.68 @ $3,200. However, can something be foud that would be more towards the center of the country?
Even if not, I might still consider it with a whole butt load of conditions that everyone would have to agree to. I'm not in favor of community covenants, but I wouldn't be looking at as a cummunity. I'd be looking at it as a business opportunity. If at least 250 people, or enough people will to buy more than 4.68 acres each, could agree on everything then I'm in. Things I would throw out would be, everyone that buys 4.68 acres, get 1 acre to build up to 2 cabins. (Maybe only one, maybe more, I'm open to sugesstion) That would leave 920 acres for a shooting range and hunting grounds. All the 1 acre lots would have to be located in the same general area to allow the rest of the land to be used for "members only" or "licensees" for hunting and use of the firing range. It would be seasonal for the firing range. And when the firing range was open there would have to be an employee on duty. Perhaps a grounds keeper that lives in the existing house at no charge for working the grounds. (Agian, just an idea) People who build a cabin, or cabins on their 1 acre lot would handle cabin rentals on their own, or we could all agree on one agency...or maybe a combination of both. (You're free to pick anyone, but here's who we recommend) Rates would be dertimined by the cabin owner. Some people will do different things with them...some will have hot tubs while others may not. One thing I wouldn't budge on is that I own a private 1 acre track, the rest would be communial. Upkeep fees would be paid by the people who own the 1 acre tracks and could be paid for by the cabin rental fees, and the licensing fees charged by "the club". If it all falls apart, the land would be divided up and 3.68 acres given in purportion to how many 1 acre tracks you own...which would be a major problem! Some people will want the same tract. The only way to sove that would be for everyone to draw lot numbers out of a hat. Sounds like a big head ache, but if it can be worked out I'll consider it. |
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Sweep
With out to much effort we have 4 tenative members ,the idea you have are about the same as mine and i think with a little effort we could do this,we would need to write some by laws and a charter and if one of the members that gets involved is an lawyer that would be great. I am willing to use all my short cut knowlege with contacts and suppliers at no fee to anyone except real cost ,I have spent the last 25 years developing these contacts and they are a valuble thing to have believe me. Last year i put in a new kitchen for the wife and i got all GE profile performance appliances the $2200.00 refrigerator cost me $850.00,it's not what you know i have found out long ago ,it's who. I think if we check the property ,we will find a spot for the cabins to all a great view. |
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Quoted: Shit, I'm in... where is it though? If you say northern Canada, I'm gonna slap you around with a trout! [=P] View Quote ummmmm GOATBOY, just to let you know that you have violated this forums conduct code. Please be aware that you are officially put on notice. Threatening violence will NOT be tolorated. Now be a nice boy and say "I'm Sorry" [whacko] |
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Would this be a "retreat" similar too the one that Robin Williams bought into in the movie"The Survivors"?[50]
"You'll smoke a turd in hell for that one!" |
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I would be very interested in more pics and learning more about the area.
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Quoted: Would this be a "retreat" similar too the one that Robin Williams bought into in the movie"The Survivors"?[50] "You'll smoke a turd in hell for that one!" View Quote Nah, much crazier! Maybe even ad a gopher from another movie. Can you say AR50?[:D] |
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Quoted: I would be very interested in more pics and learning more about the area. View Quote There's alot of good info in this link, [url]http://www.state.vt.us/[/url] |
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Quoted: Quoted: I would be very interested in more pics and learning more about the area. View Quote There's alot of good info in this link, [url]http://www.state.vt.us/[/url] View Quote I appreciate the link but I was looking for some more specific information such as nearby restruants,airports,other tourist sites, shopping, things of that nature. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would be very interested in more pics and learning more about the area. View Quote There's alot of good info in this link, [url]http://www.state.vt.us/[/url] View Quote I appreciate the link but I was looking for some more specific information such as nearby restruants,airports,other tourist sites, shopping, things of that nature. View Quote It's in the #3 part of the little map,the jay area up near the canadian border,upper right side of vermont [url]http://www.1-800-vermont.com/planner/Search.asp?ctg=4[/url] |
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Hmmm, 2:30 am... can't sleep.
What's this? Interesting... hold on. Something seems strange. [url]www.bigbearrevt.com/over.asp[/url] 1170 plus acres $800,000.00 [url]www.bigbearrevt.com/land.asp[/url] 110 plus acres $850,000.00 Same photo. Hmmmm. (edited to say- I did it right but they keep changing. (?) oh hell, good night.) |
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Let's go kick Castro's ass out of Cuba!!! We'd have some prime land, good money making opportunities & a beautiful climate! Not mention the fact we could start OUR own government!
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Quoted: Hmmm, 2:30 am... can't sleep. What's this? Interesting... hold on. Something seems strange. [url]www.bigbearrevt.com/over.asp[/url] 1170 plus acres $800,000.00 [url]ww.bigbearrevt.com/land.asp[/url] 110 plus acres $850,000.00 Same photo. Hmmmm. (edited to say- I did it right but they keep changing. (?) oh hell, good night.) View Quote Same description of the house too. [url]www.bigbearrevt.com/land.asp[/url] |
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Looks like it may be time to call Tina! TINA LEBLOND - REALTOR/PRINCIPAL BROKER Tel. Office: (802) 744-6844 or Residence: (802) 334-1303 1-800-479-6844 Fax: (802) 744-6659 Box 179, Troy, VT. 05868 E-mail: [email protected] Anyone? [?] --LS |
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OK I called and talked to Tina and she said that the property is under contract butvthey have hit an impass and it might not go through.
It should also be noted that even if we didn't want to go out of pocket for the purchase it would cost each member(250 memebers)$64.00 dollars a month for 5 years at 7.5 rate of interest. I would also tell you the taxes are 5200.00 a year and it will cost $15,000 to bring the electric to the property,thats 60 bucks per man. Everything we do will be relativley cheap because of the amount of people we are spreading it out with. |
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I think 250 is too many to make this a reality, then again 110 acres isn't enough or worth all that cash.
50 paying $16k is very realistic and I think doable. We can also decide on building one large lodge facitlity and turning it into a full time hunting lodge and hire a staff to run it, etc. (This way it pays for itself!) That area should be AMAZING for hunting and could be made into a very popular retreat. [=)] |
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Quoted: I think 250 is too many to make this a reality, then again 110 acres isn't enough or worth all that cash. 50 paying $16k is very realistic and I think doable. We can also decide on building one large lodge facitlity and turning it into a full time hunting lodge and hire a staff to run it, etc. (This way it pays for itself!) That area should be AMAZING for hunting and could be made into a very popular retreat. [=)] View Quote I was thinking the same thing today. A lodge or two or three with other nice amenities,and a bunch of us investing in the project seems like the way to go. Just my.02 |
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Quoted: I think 250 is too many to make this a reality, then again 110 acres isn't enough or worth all that cash. 50 paying $16k is very realistic and I think doable. We can also decide on building one large lodge facitlity and turning it into a full time hunting lodge and hire a staff to run it, etc. (This way it pays for itself!) That area should be AMAZING for hunting and could be made into a very popular retreat. [=)] View Quote Goatboy,I just check with Tina at the realtors office and it is def. 1170 plus acres. I'm in even if we have to have less members involved,the property is located 5 min. from jay peak ski mountain and that means big rental fees for anyone who wants to rent out their cabin during skiing season,this could pay for it self very easy. I moght even be able to get us some of those moose hunting permits won by lottery over in maine [:D] |
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This just might be doable for us. As some of you probably know, my wife has been wanting to move to Vermont, for a few years now in fact.
We were discussing this last night, and she mentioned reading there's not alot of industry in Vermont. Most businesses are small Mom-and-Pop types, and many local businesses are seasonal. She mentioned a couple who owned a bed and breakfast type inn where they charge up to $2700 a week during the summer months. They're closed during the winter but the money they pull in during the summer months is enough to support them for the full year. Now I'm thinking Vermont probably has year-round hunting, depending on what's in season, and hunting lodges would probably do very well there. But I don't know what's already there and what the competition might be, if any. And I don't know what areas are good to hunt. Can any of you Vermonters weigh in on this? Are there any trap/skeet/sporting clays/rifle/pistol ranges in that area, and is there a need for that? That this acreage is close to skiing is an added bonus. I have another stupid question. If we built a cabin there and rented it out, where would we stay? [:\] |
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Not to rock the boat, but how about Penn, where it is more accessable to more people? I'd be interested in help fund a [s]compound[/s], ummmm, I mean LODGE. Penn would be more accessable and IMO a better location for all of us. A central lodge would be the best idea, screw the cabins, that would only lead to problems, since most wouldn't be able to build their own with proper waste management. A 30 room lodge with bunks could accomodate many people and would offer the most in regards to comradery. Not to mention, it'd be a kick ass SHTF gathering point.
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Sorry to nix the Pa. idea as far as i'm concerned ,but vermont has much more appeal and we can draw canadians down who can not own or shoot AR15's in canada,the property that we are talking about has 2 miles of border with canada.
The property actually buts right up to our canuk brothers. Drawing people from around the country will be an easy feat because of all the contacts we have and the snow in the winter is a big plus for skiers and snowmobilers,and ice fishing to. |
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I would be up for this type of venture. Heck it sounds profitable.
Although, I'm not a hunter (don't give a shit about it.. just don't) but, at that acreage, wouldn't it get hunted out pretty quick? |
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I'd DEFINITELY be up for this !
Will you folks allow NJ residents on the grounds? [:D] |
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Quoted: Shit, I'm in... where is it though? If you say northern Canada, I'm gonna slap you around with a trout! [=P] View Quote If ONLY you were THAT lucky!!!! |
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Quoted: Sorry to nix the Pa. idea as far as i'm concerned ,but vermont has much more appeal and we can draw canadians down who can not own or shoot AR15's in canada,the property that we are talking about has 2 miles of border with canada. The property actually buts right up to our canuk brothers. View Quote Can we invade?? Drawing people from around the country will be an easy feat because of all the contacts we have and the snow in the winter is a big plus for skiers and snowmobilers,and ice fishing to. View Quote Why is this beginning to remind me of the 10th Mountain Division? |
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Quoted: ,but vermont has much more appeal and we can draw canadians down who can not own or shoot AR15's in canada. . View Quote jrzy......you might just want to learn a little more about your neighbours...... These are mine....the only people who cannot have ARs are the criminals...we can also have bayo lugs, short barrels etc. [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Stormbringer666/blackrifles.jpg[/img] 71..........BRING IT ON!!![50] |
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Quoted: Quoted: ,but vermont has much more appeal and we can draw canadians down who can not own or shoot AR15's in canada. . View Quote jrzy......you might just want to learn a little more about your neighbours...... These are mine....the only people who cannot have ARs are the criminals...we can also have bayo lugs, short barrels etc. [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Stormbringer666/blackrifles.jpg[/img] 71..........BRING IT ON!!![50] View Quote My sincere apology's Storm I hate it when someone get NJ's laws wrong and I know where you're coming from.Sorry |
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In order to make it somewhat a viable project, I would want to see a community association or "operating entity". Planned communities are nothing new. In my home county, a bunch of people decided to get together and buy a bunch of acreage to build a dam across a creek. The resulting lake community is now larger than the county seat.
Also, there are timeshared resort development operators that could be contracted. |
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Quoted: Can't we just buy Montana instead? View Quote no, i already own it |
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2 miles of Canadian border huh ?
Does this mean we can smuggle high-flow toilets into the US ??? This all sounds like a very "doable" thing... Put a deposit on the property to secure the deal, shake the AR15.com member tree and see how much loose change falls out of our pockets... This whole deal here seems like a "Win-win" situation... A few of my own dumb ideas: 1) You could sell off some of the timber to recoup some money... 2) You could build an "upscale" hunting lodge that caters to the rich & famous... 3) You could sub-divide and sell off a few small plots to other members... 4) You could do 10 acre parcels for 50 people, and still have 670 acres available to hunt or use for recreation... I'll keep following this thread... I've got plenty of equity in my home to get on board if it comes down to it... |
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So if I buy into this all I need is a double wide trailer, lots of junked out non-running cars, a bath tub with trasmission in it for the front yard, lots of tighty whiteys, and hanes tank tops?
[:)] |
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Hmmm, Before you go any further, you need to see how this is going to work. In other words, I have seen a good number of posts about what to do with the land...
You better figure up some sort of voting system or something and some way to have ideas and motions heard. I am not saying there will be any, but just in case. Some sort of voting method. You had better organize this affair before it comes back to bite someone in the ass. Anyways. Good Luck to you guys.. Ben |
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Where is the nearest airport in relation to this property? I went to school in southern NH and have relatives in southern VT. and northern VT has a lot more cows than people and the northern part of the state is not loaded with amenities. That which makes it desireable also makes it inaccessable to many. From here on Long Island it would be a good 10-12 hours drive to the northern part of the state. How much use do most of us think they would reallyl get out of this location??? Winter lasts a long time up there and the snow cover lingers long into the spring. I love VT but also would look into other locations before doing anything impulsive. my .02
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Put me down as a tenitive. I am interested in buying land in Vt anyway, sounds like if this is
done right the niebors will be the right kind... Just a bit further north than I wanted. |
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"...I got some, [b]OCEAN FRONT PROPERTY[/b] in
Aaaa-Ra---zo---na... From my front porch I can see the sea..." |
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I could get in assuming it is under 20K, and I have at least 4 weeks advance notice.
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We've had a few personal email exchanges about this and I will try to share the general feeling.
- Self supporting year round facility. We'd hire a staff (of our own guys if need be) to handle lodgings, reservations, ski bookings, hunting trips, maintenance, etc. - Promoting to increase revenue. We would promote the hunting and lodging capabilities in order to get business growth. This would mean knowing WHEN the investment group wishes to use the facilities. - Other income sources. As it turns out, there are other means of making up funds quickly and constantly for years to come. As the 1170 acres is mostly wooded, there are a number of lumber companies interested in working with us already. (Scarry isn't it!) Obviously this would be a SMALL area where it would not harm the look/quality/value of the property as well as not hurting the animals after examining environmental concerns. - The group would need to be small. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but 250 owners will not work. 25-50 will. - Bylaws We would need to establish bylaws for each "partner" in the investment. This means as a group we would all receive one vote in a public forum to lay down rules and change them as needed. This means everyone's voice would be heard. The general rules, I imagine, would include items such as if a partner wants to "sell" his share of the property (remaining members have dibs on it and also must approve the sale to an outside person) as well as issues regarding what we build on the property or any changes to it. - Facilities One large lodging facility with perhaps 2 small cabins would be ideal. This allows the lodging to be a dedicated business and a place of residence for all the "partners" when large events take place. (I for one would love a multi year gathering for hunting, skiing, relaxing, and sharing family weekends.) One cabin would house the manager/onsite staff (my goal is one family runs it!). The other cabin would be for "high end" visitors and kept mostly empty for "partner" visits. This way there's always a place for us to go. These smaller cabins should have 3-4 bedrooms with their own baths, a common kitchen and living room, and a mud room/entry for easier cleaning. The Main house for the staff would obviously include more homely conveniences. I don't want to make this MY project, but this is important stuff to discuss. As I said, 50 people is $16k a person, while 25 is $34k a person and both are realistic. I think we can also offer 25 "partners" each with one vote, and then people can opt to split their own share amongst 2 or more if needed. 25 seats on a ruling body would be plenty. [=)] This is definitely a possible project and the area is incredible for hunting, skiing, and vacationing... As I said before, I'm in!!! |
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GB, I'm assuming $16K is for the property investment, what are the taxes? Do you have any approximations on the cost of facilities?
Good plans, but $16k would be the tip of the iceberg, you'll need people with more than that in venture capital. How about money for lawyers? You'll need them for sure, especially within 2 miles of the Canuk border. I'm only assuming, but its better to have contingency plans, than to be screwed with no money and have to sell the project. Will you screen your investors for financial ability to carry through to the end of the project? If they can't, will you be prepared to let them keep their 1/50th share of the property? (Again, you'll need contract lawyers.) Then again, I do not know how you came up with the $16k number, so I guess at this point I'm only asking if you have everything considered in your price, or if this is prop only? |
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Balzac72
I have talking with the realtor and i have been working some numbers with GB,so i can tell you what i know so far,the taxes are about $5200.00 a year right now with the house and some out buildings,the 16K is the outlay for the purchaes of the property,The sale of some of the hardwoods would go a long way to the building fund and other projects for the property,if you think about it ,to build a range all we need is a guy using a bulldozer to build burms,thats the basics and there are very inexpensive ways to build really nice cabins,the A frame is one and i have most if not all the contacts to save us a great deal of money on most of the projects. If we put one half down and as a group finance the balance $400,000.00,that comes to $8000.00 owed per member at 7.5 annual interest,that payment would be $160.00 a month for 5 years. The benefit of doing it like that is a smaller outlay of cash at first for the members that come on board and we would get back almost $400,000.00 for timber right away to use for the project it self. These numbers are based on 50 members. There are many options avilable to us and we will need to get together on who is in and who is not tentatively of course and then go from there and establish riles and by-laws and iron out details. I will also look into other property up there and see if we can get a better deal,but the area is exactly what we want i believe. |
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im going to do a visual on the area this weekend hopefully. will post the humint report when i get back. im definitely in, just want to get a feel for the area. oh and ill take digi pictures too.
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