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Posted: 9/9/2004 6:35:52 AM EST
Something that bothers me is that our tax dollars are going to be spent to give aid to Florida, yet at the same time Floridians do NOT pay any state income tax.

Carnival Corp., Florida's 10th-largest public company with 4,220 South Florida employees and a $136-million state payroll, posted more than $1-billion in profits last year.

It also paid nothing in Florida corporate income tax.

Neither did Verizon Communications Inc., the phone giant that employs 12,500 people in Florida, or Saddlebrook Resorts Inc., the elite retreat in Wesley Chapel that is home to a famous tennis training center.

In fact, 98 percent of the estimated 1.5-million businesses in Florida paid nothing.


Opinions?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:37:28 AM EST
One doesn't relate to the other...

No state income tax is a state level budgetary issue. The Feds have granted themselves the right to provide relief to the states, and guess what, Florida is a state...
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:37:35 AM EST
yes.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:37:46 AM EST
But don't they pay federal taxes?


We're all AMERICANS and Florida is an American state, so why not?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:39:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:42:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By michaelj1978:
Something that bothers me is that our tax dollars are going to be spent to give aid to Florida, yet at the same time Floridians do NOT pay any state income tax.

Carnival Corp., Florida's 10th-largest public company with 4,220 South Florida employees and a $136-million state payroll, posted more than $1-billion in profits last year.

It also paid nothing in Florida corporate income tax.

Neither did Verizon Communications Inc., the phone giant that employs 12,500 people in Florida, or Saddlebrook Resorts Inc., the elite retreat in Wesley Chapel that is home to a famous tennis training center.

In fact, 98 percent of the estimated 1.5-million businesses in Florida paid nothing.


Opinions?



They, like TX, have higher sales tax to make up for it.
We should only send them funds if you want funds when the damn Mississippi floods in MO again.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:47:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By psychotr:
They, like TX, have higher sales tax to make up for it.
We should only send them funds if you want funds when the damn Mississippi floods in MO again.


The TX folks should count your blessings. Sunny Kali-fornia has TX's high sales tax AND a personal income tax, and Kali-fornia is still in bind financially. The liberal Dems have been giving away my money faster than I can make it. The Dems are like alcoholics, they won't admit they have a financial problem, so we won't be getting a cure anytime soon.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:51:36 AM EST

They, like TX, have higher sales tax to make up for it.
We should only send them funds if you want funds when the damn Mississippi floods in MO again.



I think Florida's sales tax is around 6% that's average to below average compared to the rest of the US. Hell, Kansas City just passed a 10% sales tax within city limits. I don't buy shit there anymore.

.....and yes, I already need more airsoft BB's, paying for Florida's nature problem might leave me without ammo to defend myself.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:52:44 AM EST
I think the bigger question is: Why do we continue to funnel federal dollars to help people out when they should be solely in control of their own destinies?

Live in Tornado Alley? Buy Insurance!
Live in Hurricane Alley? Buy Insurance!
Live in a Tinderbox? Buy Insurance!
Live on an Active Fault? Buy Insurance!
Live on a Flood Plain? Buy Insurance!

...btw - save some money to cover your deductible, and get some basic survival supplies to help you out.

Some people are always willing to beg for assistance from the federal gov.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:53:25 AM EST
Ah jeez, not this shit again. We just hashed this out after the last hurricane before Francis.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:54:22 AM EST
Yes...and remember where MOST of those federal dollars are coming from.



<hint> it's the other sunshine state.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:55:00 AM EST
Of course it is OK. It is the right thing to do. We are ALL part of the UNITED States after all. It makes us stronger to maintain close ties. The fact that they pay no state income tax has no meaning.

Would you prefer that we were "Balkanized" like Europe?

Would you prefer a system like the old Articles of Confederation?

<<Of course...there ARE always exceptions. I can't include Massachussetts.>>
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:13:53 AM EST
What we don't pay in State income taxes is made up in what we pay in property tax (mine's $3000 a year living on a 3 mile dirt road with ZERO services, (i.e. no garbage, no water, no sewage, no mosquito control, no LE patrols), tangable and intangable personal property taxes, fuel taxes ($0.68) on every gallon. We pay %7 sales tax on everything except food and medicine. We pay addtl taxes on our phone service, satellite services, cell phone services, telephone services. My vehicle tag cost $60 on avg, it's levied by vehicle wight. The plain fact is, we pay the same level of tax to fund the gov't as any other state, it's just in how it's levied. For example, Georgia has lower fuel costs than us because their fuel taxes are way lower but they pay on average of $400 per year for a tag.

On the same note, things are really fucked here, really fucked! I could and probably will post a rant later. I still have no power at home, just got power at work. Forget any kind of relief services, the NG and nobody can supply the kind of support that is neccessary, ice, fuel are in short supply and we're not even close to being hardest hit. Forget the ice handouts, you can wait in line for hours and find out you don't get any. Forget getting a chainsaw or generator, there aren't any. Even perisable food is in short supply, hell Wendy's ran out of burger patties. Folks here are bathing in the rain which the flooding has now become a problem. Imagine, 93 degrees, 100% humidity, bugs galore and trying to sleep. You're lucky if the night temp gets down to 80 degrees as you lay in the still air sweating. Power is still out everywhere, catastrophic line damage, telling us maybe another week or more.

100 miles south of me must be pure unaduterated hell.

None the less, I somewhat prepared for it, I'm not suffering as bad as many others so no complaints. I will tell you this, this same level of distress can happen anywhere, fires & quakes in Kali, snow storms, drought, tornado outbreaks, flooding. If you don't prepare ahead of time and I mean like years in advance not weeks, you are a dumb ass. Something like this will happen in your lifetime, if your gear and supplies sits ready to go for years, so be it. It will be there when you need it most and will be priceless. Everyone should have a case of MRE's for each member of the family, eat them for lunch one meal a month to keep them in rotation. Well, now I'm getting into more than I want to discuss here. Later.......
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:14:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:19:57 AM EST by The_Macallan]
No.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
~ James Madison,
the "Father of the Constitution" commenting on how Congress appropriated $15,000 to assist French refugees of an uprising in Santo Domingo in 1794.


IMO, the Federal Gov't should NOT be in the business of providing personal property insurance to anyone. They can assist in repairing the infrastructure of the state (highways, postal roads, etc) - but not individual charity.

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:16:09 AM EST
Yes.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:19:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By michaelj1978:
Something that bothers me is that our tax dollars are going to be spent to give aid to Florida, yet at the same time Floridians do NOT pay any state income tax.

Carnival Corp., Florida's 10th-largest public company with 4,220 South Florida employees and a $136-million state payroll, posted more than $1-billion in profits last year.

It also paid nothing in Florida corporate income tax.

Neither did Verizon Communications Inc., the phone giant that employs 12,500 people in Florida, or Saddlebrook Resorts Inc., the elite retreat in Wesley Chapel that is home to a famous tennis training center.

In fact, 98 percent of the estimated 1.5-million businesses in Florida paid nothing.


Opinions?



Hey jackass - there is no individual Florida income tax, but there is a Florida corporate income tax. I'm not sure how Carnival or Verizon are structured, but if they are Corporations doing business in Florida with net taxable income, they are paying Florida corporate income tax.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:20:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:49:22 AM EST by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
No.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
~ James Madison,
the "Father of the Constitution" commenting on how Congress appropriated $15,000 to assist French refugees of an uprising in Santo Domingo in 1794.





Madison MAY have been correct concerning sending funds outside the US, but Article I, Section 8 clearly gives Congress the power to provide the aid in question to Floridians, who are after all Americans:


Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States...
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:21:04 AM EST
What the hell does not paying state tax have to do with receiving federal aid???
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:22:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:24:59 AM EST by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
No.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
~ James Madison,
the "Father of the Constitution" commenting on how Congress appropriated $15,000 to assist French refugees of an uprising in Santo Domingo in 1794.





Madison MAY have been correct concerning sending funds outside the US, but Article I, Section 8 clearly gives Congress the power to provide the aid in question to Floridians, whoare after all Americans:


Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States...

Wrong.

GENERAL welfare is not "selected" charity".

Courts be damned.

No one from the Fed Gov't aided ME when my air conditioner broke for last year and I had to endure two days of 110+ degree heat and pay for it out of my own pocket. The Feds never paid not even one dollar. So the same for the people foolish enough to live in a frickin HURRICANE BELT!!

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:22:26 AM EST
NO

See macallans post, it's not the job of gvt to hand out money. Providing for commerce and defense is it's purpose, that's it. For that reason rebuilding damaged river systems makes sense, millions of tons of goods travel our river systems and highway systems. But last I checked personal homes aren't regular stops for trucks or wharehouses are they?

Folks who choose to live in Florida take the risk of being wiped out by a hurricane just like folks that live in a flood plane take the risk of being flooded. Buy insurance for these risks, that's what private enterprise is good for.

Get the nanny off your back.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:22:36 AM EST
Yes. After all, it is The United States of America. That does include Florida.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:23:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By michaelj1978:
Something that bothers me is that our tax dollars are going to be spent to give aid to Florida, yet at the same time Floridians do NOT pay any state income tax.

Carnival Corp., Florida's 10th-largest public company with 4,220 South Florida employees and a $136-million state payroll, posted more than $1-billion in profits last year.

It also paid nothing in Florida corporate income tax.

Neither did Verizon Communications Inc., the phone giant that employs 12,500 people in Florida, or Saddlebrook Resorts Inc., the elite retreat in Wesley Chapel that is home to a famous tennis training center.

In fact, 98 percent of the estimated 1.5-million businesses in Florida paid nothing.


Opinions?



Are you serious? "TAX THE PEOPLE!!! TAX THEM TO DEATH!!! BWAHAHAHHAH!"

Get a grip. The fact that there is no personal income tax in Florida is completely unrelated to whether or not the Federal Government should aid the state. Floridians pay Federal income tax. Enough said.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:23:54 AM EST
No. Voluntary Charities should take it up.
Scott
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:24:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Torf:
I think the bigger question is: Why do we continue to funnel federal dollars to help people out when they should be solely in control of their own destinies?

Live in Tornado Alley? Buy Insurance!
Live in Hurricane Alley? Buy Insurance!
Live in a Tinderbox? Buy Insurance!
Live on an Active Fault? Buy Insurance!
Live on a Flood Plain? Buy Insurance!

...btw - save some money to cover your deductible, and get some basic survival supplies to help you out.

Some people are always willing to beg for assistance from the federal gov.



Try buying insurance in places like Homestead, FL or now Port Charlotte, FL. Insurance companies are about to abandon Florida due to bankrupcy.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:24:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:29:41 AM EST by captainpooby]
No, and take your next vacation in Idaho.

We sent aid to Somalia for shit sakes.

ETA: I sustained no damage and I do have insurance. FEMA dollars are low interest loans FYI not charity. I imagine most of the money sent here is to repair infrastructure.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:25:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Torf:
I think the bigger question is: Why do we continue to funnel federal dollars to help people out when they should be solely in control of their own destinies?

Live in Tornado Alley? Buy Insurance!
Live in Hurricane Alley? Buy Insurance!
Live in a Tinderbox? Buy Insurance!
Live on an Active Fault? Buy Insurance!
Live on a Flood Plain? Buy Insurance!

...btw - save some money to cover your deductible, and get some basic survival supplies to help you out.

Some people are always willing to beg for assistance from the federal gov.




Couldn't agree more.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:26:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:26:57 AM EST by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By Torf:
I think the bigger question is: Why do we continue to funnel federal dollars to help people out when they should be solely in control of their own destinies?

Live in Tornado Alley? Buy Insurance!
Live in Hurricane Alley? Buy Insurance!
Live in a Tinderbox? Buy Insurance!
Live on an Active Fault? Buy Insurance!
Live on a Flood Plain? Buy Insurance!

...btw - save some money to cover your deductible, and get some basic survival supplies to help you out.

Some people are always willing to beg for assistance from the federal gov.

Try buying insurance in places like Homestead, FL or now Port Charlotte, FL. Insurance companies are about to abandon Florida due to bankrupcy.

GOOD!!!

Let the market decide!

If you're so stupid you live in a frickin HURRICANE BELT that gets blasted EVERY FUCKING YEAR - then YOU should have to be responsible for your own decisions - not me.

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:26:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:27:40 AM EST by Jetlag]
No. We should help out as much as we feel is necessary. But nobody should hold a gun to your head.

ETA: Your rant about state tax makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:27:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By michaelj1978:
Something that bothers me is that our tax dollars are going to be spent to give aid to Florida, yet at the same time Floridians do NOT pay any state income tax.

Carnival Corp., Florida's 10th-largest public company with 4,220 South Florida employees and a $136-million state payroll, posted more than $1-billion in profits last year.

It also paid nothing in Florida corporate income tax.

Neither did Verizon Communications Inc., the phone giant that employs 12,500 people in Florida, or Saddlebrook Resorts Inc., the elite retreat in Wesley Chapel that is home to a famous tennis training center.

In fact, 98 percent of the estimated 1.5-million businesses in Florida paid nothing.


Opinions?





Feel the love.



I think they should and yeah I live here. I felt the same way before moving here in 97. I have insurance, just like anyone else does. And my rates will go up after this year. And if there is a disaster in MO, I hope to God "my" money will go there to help out.

What exactly do you propose for people to do when their home is scrubbed off the earth by 100mph winds? Live in a fucking cardboard box?

What the fuck do state taxes have to do with anything? I used to live in Delaware. We had no sales tax at all. If there was a catastrophe there, I wouldn't be pissed that they were getting "my" money. Would you?



Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:29:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:30:43 AM EST by BayEagle]

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

GOOD!!!

Let the market decide!

If you're so stupid you live in a frickin HURRICANE BELT that gets blasted EVERY FUCKING YEAR - then YOU should have to be responsible for your own decisions - not me.




Mac - I've lived here since 97 and the only hurricanes I've seen til now are the ones that I lived through when I lived in New Jersey for Crissake.

Where the fuck is safe to live in the US?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:29:23 AM EST
It's not the aid that irks me, it is the foregone conclusion by Congress that aid should be given--the vote took mere minutes with zero debat and unanimous approval. They fall all over each to spend our money with zero accountability. There were times in American history in which disaster funding was voted down and/or heavily debated. That should still be the case today. Instead, there are 535 criminals in office picking our pockets and acting like it is no big thing.

Plus, Jeb Bush is Governor of Florida, so there is the family factor at work there.

Florida = many thousands of double-wides and trailers not structurally sound.

And before you label me as heartless, did you donate any cash (by choice, I mean) to the relief effort? I am 100% in favor of private charities doing the heavy lifting because they can do it far superior to the fedgov.

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:29:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By michaelj1978:
Opinions?

Explain wtf the payment or non-payment of STATE Income Tax has to do with FEDERAL Aid.

How much FEDERAL Aid money, MY FEDERAL Tax Dollars, have gone to your fellow Missourians who were unfortunate enough to live in a FLOOD PLAIN?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:30:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
No.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
~ James Madison,
the "Father of the Constitution" commenting on how Congress appropriated $15,000 to assist French refugees of an uprising in Santo Domingo in 1794.


Madison MAY have been correct concerning sending funds outside the US, but Article I, Section 8 clearly gives Congress the power to provide the aid in question to Floridians, whoare after all Americans:


Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States...

BTW... Madison was speaking in terms NOT specific to whether the recipients of Gov't Charity were citizens or not.

The "general welfare" clause should NEVER be used to start parcelling out SPECIFIC payments to CERTAIN hard-luck cases.

"general" means it should be spent on behalf of ALL the US, not just those who live on earthquake faults or in hurricane belts.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:30:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Let the market decide!

If you're so stupid you live in a frickin HURRICANE BELT that gets blasted EVERY FUCKING YEAR - then YOU should have to be responsible for your own decisions - not me.




Get off the coke man, it's fucking up your personality.

While we're on this topic, no one should live along the Mississippi, it floods every couple of years and fucks things up. No one should live in California, because there are earthquakes. No one should live in Hawaii, because there are volcanos. No one should live in the North because there are blizzards that freeze people and kill people. No one should live in the midwest, because tornados are a bitch. In fact, KILL YOUR FUCKING SELF because no where on earth is safe.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:32:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:36:02 AM EST by pen]
Voluntary charities are taking it up. We have people here from all over the country just because they want to help. I have talked to volunteers from Texas, Nebraska, Iowa, N & S Carolina, Ga, Tenn, Al, and the list goes on. Churches have sent disaster teams from all over. Power companies have linemen in from all over. Some of those guys are working 16 to 18 hr days and sleeping in their trucks.

My hat is off to all of them. Many thanks.

edit because I can't spell
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:32:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By BayEagle:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

GOOD!!!

Let the market decide!

If you're so stupid you live in a frickin HURRICANE BELT that gets blasted EVERY FUCKING YEAR - then YOU should have to be responsible for your own decisions - not me.




Mac - I've lived here since 97 and the only hurricanes I've seen til now are the ones that I lived through when I lived in New Jersey for Crissake.

Where the fuck is safe to live in the US?

Live wherever you want!

Just be responsible for YOUR own decsions - and don't expect the Fed to bail you out.

If you want the US to be responsible for paying for your living condtion when the rains come - then WE should have a lot of say in WHERE you choose to live. I doubt you want that though, I know I wouldn't.


The Federal Gov't should NOT be in the business of charity, period.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:33:33 AM EST
It's not just Florida, guys. The Gov't should not be in the coersion-of-charity business. If they taxed me less because they didn't have so much "aid" (and other unConstitutional) spending, I'd have more to give. But this isn't a kick in the Floridians ribs cuz they're down. i say the same thing about Ohioans with Tornado damage...

Scott
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:35:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Let the market decide!

If you're so stupid you live in a frickin HURRICANE BELT that gets blasted EVERY FUCKING YEAR - then YOU should have to be responsible for your own decisions - not me.




Get off the coke man, it's fucking up your personality.

While we're on this topic, no one should live along the Mississippi, it floods every couple of years and fucks things up. No one should live in California, because there are earthquakes. No one should live in Hawaii, because there are volcanos. No one should live in the North because there are blizzards that freeze people and kill people. No one should live in the midwest, because tornados are a bitch. In fact, KILL YOUR FUCKING SELF because no where on earth is safe.


Let me say it again...

LIVE WHEREVER THE HELL YOU WANT!!!

But don't expect the Fed to come bail you out if you build your house on a river bank that floods every 10 years or if you live on a earthquake fault line or in a hurricane belt...

Comprende?

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:35:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:36:52 AM EST by motown_steve]
I'd rather have my Federal Taxes go to help the Floridiots rebuild their state than go to Forgein Aid!

1 Timothy 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. "
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:37:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:
In fact, KILL YOUR FUCKING SELF because no where on earth is safe.



No, you should live where you want, and take reasonable precaution to avert disaster or rebuild when it strikes. You should also be relieved of the rediculous tax burden so that you can freely and voluntarily give to those who are struck by disaster.

Scott
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:38:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
It's not the aid that irks me, it is the foregone conclusion by Congress that aid should be given--the vote took mere minutes with zero debat and unanimous approval. They fall all over each to spend our money with zero accountability. There were times in American history in which disaster funding was voted down and/or heavily debated. That should still be the case today. Instead, there are 535 criminals in office picking our pockets and acting like it is no big thing.

Plus, Jeb Bush is Governor of Florida, so there is the family factor at work there.

Florida = many thousands of double-wides and trailers not structurally sound.

And before you label me as heartless, did you donate any cash (by choice, I mean) to the relief effort? I am 100% in favor of private charities doing the heavy lifting because they can do it far superior to the fedgov.




FIRST
I donated $500 cash to Charley relief

SECOND
I spent a week UNPAID helping Charley victims cleanup and distributing disaster supplies. Basically another few thousand bucks.

THIRD
I coordinated a supply relief drive and drove the truck down there.

FOURTH
I donated 3/4 of my home supplies to vicitms. I then had to replenish those stores - about another $400.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:38:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scottman:

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:
In fact, KILL YOUR FUCKING SELF because no where on earth is safe.



No, you should live where you want, and take reasonable precaution to avert disaster or rebuild when it strikes. You should also be relieved of the rediculous tax burden so that you can freely and voluntarily give to those who are struck by disaster.

Scott



Follow the thread, I was making a point using sarcasm.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:39:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Let me say it again...

LIVE WHEREVER THE HELL YOU WANT!!!

But don't expect the Fed to come bail you out if you build your house on a river bank that floods every 10 years or if you live on a earthquake fault line or in a hurricane belt...

Comprende?




ROGER!

Crap man, CALM THE FUCK DOWN. We're all friends here. Why are you so worked up? I know it bothers you, but breathe with me... 1... 2.. .3..
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:41:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Let me say it again...

LIVE WHEREVER THE HELL YOU WANT!!!

But don't expect the Fed to come bail you out if you build your house on a river bank that floods every 10 years or if you live on a earthquake fault line or in a hurricane belt...

Comprende?




ROGER!

Crap man, CALM THE FUCK DOWN. We're all friends here. Why are you so worked up? I know it bothers you, but breathe with me... 1... 2.. .3..

Okay, sorry.

breathe........ Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............


Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:42:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By michaelj1978:

They, like TX, have higher sales tax to make up for it.
We should only send them funds if you want funds when the damn Mississippi floods in MO again.



I think Florida's sales tax is around 6% that's average to below average compared to the rest of the US. Hell, Kansas City just passed a 10% sales tax within city limits. I don't buy shit there anymore.

.....and yes, I already need more airsoft BB's, paying for Florida's nature problem might leave me without ammo to defend myself.


Try 8.25% here. On top of 15-25% income tax.

CW
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:43:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Okay, sorry.

breathe........ Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............





There we go, we're happy now.

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:44:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By michaelj1978:
Something that bothers me is that our tax dollars are going to be spent to give aid to Florida, yet at the same time Floridians do NOT pay any state income tax.

Carnival Corp., Florida's 10th-largest public company with 4,220 South Florida employees and a $136-million state payroll, posted more than $1-billion in profits last year.

It also paid nothing in Florida corporate income tax.

Neither did Verizon Communications Inc., the phone giant that employs 12,500 people in Florida, or Saddlebrook Resorts Inc., the elite retreat in Wesley Chapel that is home to a famous tennis training center.

In fact, 98 percent of the estimated 1.5-million businesses in Florida paid nothing.


Opinions?



OF COURSE THEY SHOULD GET HELP. IT'S ALL THE SAME COUNTRY, YOU KNOW!

1) NO BUSINESS EVER PAYS A PENNY IN TAXES. PERIOD.

If Verizon was charged state income tax, all of you with VZW cell phones would pay it every month!

If Carnival was charged, everyone who took a cruise would pay.

COMPANIES DON'T PAY TAXES, CUSTOMERS DO.

2) FLA doesn't need a state income tax, they make enough money from sales tax to vover their budget.

The advantages of being (1) a tourist economy, and (2) a vacation/retirement spot for rich folks who buy expensive toys, you see...

3) FLA is part of the U.S.

We are ONE NATION, not 50.

Therefore, if there is a federal program to help with disaster recovery, FLA should not be excluded. And there is.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:58:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
It's not the aid that irks me, it is the foregone conclusion by Congress that aid should be given--the vote took mere minutes with zero debat and unanimous approval. They fall all over each to spend our money with zero accountability. There were times in American history in which disaster funding was voted down and/or heavily debated. That should still be the case today. Instead, there are 535 criminals in office picking our pockets and acting like it is no big thing.

Plus, Jeb Bush is Governor of Florida, so there is the family factor at work there.

Florida = many thousands of double-wides and trailers not structurally sound.

And before you label me as heartless, did you donate any cash (by choice, I mean) to the relief effort? I am 100% in favor of private charities doing the heavy lifting because they can do it far superior to the fedgov.




Once again, you're off your rocker...

In the current era, the population of any state is unsustainable without electricity, running water, and other amenities. So someone's gotta go down there and get it all working again... Oh, and they've also got to distribute supplies to keep everyone alive & healthy w/o running water & electricity.

What 'private' charity is capable of doing that?

Looting... Got a 'private' charity that can field an army (literally) to maintain order? The local PDs aren't up to the task, you know...

Oh, and I don't know about you, but I've dealt with insurance before - car insurance, even... It takes about 4-6mos of haglling from when you file your claim untill they actually agree to pay you a reasonable settlement...

So, FEMA & the National Guard are absolutely neccicary here.....

This is an example of beneficial government in action. And ya know what, when there's a disaster in your town, they'll help there too...

This is why we have govt, and they are doing a splendid job of handling the situation...
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:59:40 AM EST
Shoot the looters.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 8:07:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:
Shoot the looters.



I'm thinkin'



Link Posted: 9/9/2004 8:10:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
No.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
~ James Madison,
the "Father of the Constitution" commenting on how Congress appropriated $15,000 to assist French refugees of an uprising in Santo Domingo in 1794.


Madison MAY have been correct concerning sending funds outside the US, but Article I, Section 8 clearly gives Congress the power to provide the aid in question to Floridians, whoare after all Americans:


Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States...

BTW... Madison was speaking in terms NOT specific to whether the recipients of Gov't Charity were citizens or not.

The "general welfare" clause should NEVER be used to start parcelling out SPECIFIC payments to CERTAIN hard-luck cases.

"general" means it should be spent on behalf of ALL the US, not just those who live on earthquake faults or in hurricane belts.



Get a grip. Madison WAS speaking specifically about sending federal money to NON-CITIZENS!. Nearly all of the money for current hurricane relief is LOANS, not handouts. They have to pay it back. That and infrastructure rebuilding. Both fall well within the "General welfare" clause of the Constitution.

While quoting Madison and Jefferson is often fun, it also pays to see what they actually DID while they were Presidents. Jefferson purchased the Louisiana Territory without a specific Constitutional provision granting the federal government that power. Madison sought to recharter the National Bank, establish protective tariffs (for SPECIFIC INDUSTRIES), and a provide for a system of internal improvements, all of which at one time or another he decried as being outside the powers of the Federal government. His justification: The General Welfare and Necessary and proper Clauses of th Constitution.

You would have done fabulously railing against the Whigs in the early 19th Century.
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