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Posted: 4/19/2002 8:18:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 8:21:09 AM EDT by John91498]
Should the church be abolished because their priests were raping little boys and girls? I live in Orange County, Ca and so far, there have been 6 priests that were expulsed or fired or whatever they call it when a priest is asked to leave. I think these guys are worse than crooked cops. They should be publicly killed.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:25:20 AM EDT
No. Orange County should be abolished. [whacko]
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:29:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: No. Orange County should be abolished. [whacko]
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You're just mad because eventually the laws from Orange county will invade Arizona and take your guns. [beer][:D]
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:31:02 AM EDT
No - Pedophiles need jobs too!
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:34:23 AM EDT
Only defections by Catholics should bring down the Catholic shurch.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:34:29 AM EDT
[:K]
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:36:54 AM EDT
I have gotten many laughs from the Catholic Church. They are a primary source of my comedy entertainment(my girlfriend is Catholic and she thinks the church is rediculous). Luckly, the Catholic Church can't be abolished. I take that back. I'm sure The Peoples Republic of California can do it. If you were to force the laws of Orange County on the whole country, there would be a revolution.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:49:03 AM EDT
The Catholic church has known for years that some or even most of their priests were raping kids. In Africa, the priests were raping nuns. This has been going on for years and just about everyone knew it was going on. Now, all of a sudden, the criminals are being fired and some are even being arrested. Why now after all these years?
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:50:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Steelviper: [:K]
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You're a catholic, aren't you?
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:52:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Steelviper: [:K]
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Me? A Troll? Wowee Geez! Lighten Up Man, lifes too short to be so serious.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:54:04 AM EDT
John, your idea is a little hypocritical is it not ? Maybe we should ban all guns since some gun owners commit crimes with them.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:02:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498: The Catholic church has known for years that some or even most of their priests were raping kids. In Africa, the priests were raping nuns. This has been going on for years and just about everyone knew it was going on. Now, all of a sudden, the criminals are being fired and some are even being arrested. Why now after all these years?
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Media coverage.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:03:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: John, your idea is a little hypocritical is it not ? Maybe we should ban all guns since some gun owners commit crimes with them.
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Philly, That's a damn good point. But I don't use GOD to get into a little girl's pants.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:04:52 AM EDT
The Catholic church has known for years that some or even most of their priests were raping kids.
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"Most"?
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:07:40 AM EDT
The Catholic Church needs to stand up to it's own heretics like it stood up to communisim, that would have taken care of this mess before it ever got started. As Ann Coulter points out in her column the Church seems to have forgotton, "Despite the growing media consensus that Catholicism causes sodomy, an alternative view – adopted by the Boy Scouts – is that sodomites cause sodomy." [url]http://www.townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/ac20020322.shtml[/url] If only the Holy Father were not so enfeebled he could perhaps say to the Ted Kennedys of the Church "Support tearing children out of their mother's womb? Your excommunicated. Support the filth of homosexual sodomy? Don't let the door hit you." and go right on down the list removing the cancer that would include more than a few Bishops and Cardinals. About a decade ago Georgetown University took down the crucifixes from the school claiming that they would be offensive to non Catholics. Nothing was done, not by the Cardinal, not by anyone. This is a lack of leadership and is a small example of why things are so bad. The Church needs to kick out all the heritical priests, Bishops and Cardinals because of what's contained in books like this: [url]goodbyegoodmen.com[/url]
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:11:04 AM EDT
Maybe they should all be burned alive, like the Branch Davidians... After all, wasn't "suspected" child molestation the rational for sending in the ATF and FBI..? So why don't the Feds go after the Catholic Church..? Because then somebody has to answer to Carmine, Guido, Sal, and the rest of the boys! As much as I hate to admit it, the only "group" that could ever be considered strong enough to keep our government in check, is the Mafia... So we's don't want to be pissin' off da Pope!
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:11:07 AM EDT
Ok, I'll be serious for a moment. Abolished - No. Investigated, cleaned up and reformed - Yes. This problem of child rape and other issues have gone un-checked for too long.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:31:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 9:31:55 AM EDT by Atencio]
Originally Posted By John91498: Should the church be abolished because their priests were raping little boys and girls?
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And who is going to abolish the catholic church? They are not a little group of people like the ones at Waco. What a stupid question.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:33:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By antiUSSA: As much as I hate to admit it, the only "group" that could ever be considered strong enough to keep our government in check, is the Mafia... So we's don't want to be pissin' off da Pope!
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That might have been true 40 years ago. But today, the only group strong enough to keep our Gov't in check is... the NWO American Socialists.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:40:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 9:42:35 AM EDT by s0ulzer0]
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By antiUSSA: As much as I hate to admit it, the only "group" that could ever be considered strong enough to keep our government in check, is the Mafia... So we's don't want to be pissin' off da Pope!
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That might have been true 40 years ago. But today, the only group strong enough to keep our Gov't in check is... the NWO American Socialists.
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Do you really believe in the whole "Illuminati" secret society pulling all the puppet strings of the world? This is not a flame, but a serious question. I just happened to see something about it on the History channel the other night. I don't know if I can believe that or not.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:42:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:45:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Atencio:
Originally Posted By John91498: Should the church be abolished because their priests were raping little boys and girls?
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And who is going to abolish the catholic church? They are not a little group of people like the ones at Waco. What a stupid question.
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If it was such a stupid question, why did you answer this thread, dumbass?
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:48:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 9:50:04 AM EDT by the_reject]
Originally Posted By s0ulzer0: Do you really believe in the whole "Illuminati" secret society pulling all the puppet strings of the world? This is not a flame, but a serious question. I just happened to see something about it on the History channel the other night. I don't know if I can believe that or not.
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[url=http://www.skepdic.com/illuminati.html]http://www.skepdic.com/illuminati.html[/url] the_reject
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:57:30 AM EDT
Now if "I" had started this thread I'd be up on a cross...
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:59:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Now if "I" had started this thread I'd be up on a cross...
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Awww... You got a case of Jesus-envy, SA? [;)] the_reject
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:00:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498: The Catholic church has known for years that some or even [red]most[/red] of their priests were raping kids.
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You're not Catholic, are you? No, based on your posts you seem like just an arrogant, narcissistic athiest of below-average intelligence whose probably not even out of high school yet. My first reply to you was only partly facetious. You missed the point entirely as well as [b]Philadelphia_GunMan's[/b] analogy - hence the assumption about your poor intellect. You seem to find some juvenile delight in attacking the Catholic Church in your irrational rantings - and that is your right. I'd never be one to stop someone from making a retarded ass of himself like you're doing here. But you do remind me of a pig squealing in delight as he rolls in his own excrement. Have fun troll.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:00:46 AM EDT
Clearly John91498 wished to stir up crap with this ludicrous thread. "Should the Catholic Church be abolished" It amazes me that some people in here, including moderators, scream bloody murder when offensive threads concerning, homosexuals, blacks, jews or other minorities are targeted, yet bizare anti-Catholic diatribes on this and other threads are tolerated. Amazing. First, how can you condemn a Faith based on the actions of a few of its practictioners? Like stated earlier, the comparison with gun crime and banning all guns certainly applies here. Are Catholic priests the only ones capable of this horrendous crime? Absolutely not. Is it possible that other clergy of other faiths have committed similar crimes. Absolutely. What is the difference. Media frenzy. The Catholic Church is well aware of the media bias against it and wished to try (wrongly, but understandedly) to deal with it on its own. Media bias you say? One tiny example. In any movie where there is an evil religious figure, what religion is he typically? A Homicidal Hassidic? A Methodist Maniac? A bad-assed Baptist? No. It is generally a Catholic priest. The Catholic faith has been pilloried for centuries by this Protestant nation and continues to be so. [b]IndyLarry said: They are a primary source of my comedy entertainment(my girlfriend is Catholic and she thinks the church is rediculous). [/b] Oh, since you got an "in" with the Church, we'll give you a pass [rolleyes] [b]John91494 said: The Catholic church has known for years that some or even most of their priests were raping kids. [/b] MOST??? Where the hell do you get that data? Do you even know how ridiculous that sounded? Get off the Church's back
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:03:47 AM EDT
[b]IndyLarry said: They are a primary source of my comedy entertainment(my girlfriend is Catholic and she thinks the church is rediculous). [/b] Oh, since you got an "in" with the Church, we'll give you a pass [rolleyes] [b]John91494 said: The Catholic church has known for years that some or even most of their priests were raping kids. [/b] MOST??? Where the hell do you get that data? Do you even know how ridiculous that sounded? Get off the Church's back
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Oh No - Catholic Bashing!!
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:04:57 AM EDT
Yes, I'd like a Bilderberger with cheese & extra mayo. Can I have fries with that?[BD]
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:09:54 AM EDT
First, how can you condemn a Faith based on the actions of a few of its practictioners? I will under take a few of your questions...the executive branch of the church knows, has known, and has covered up for the deviants in collars. None of your excuses--the church tried to deal with this--help and are only sickening to people that know about this and what has been happening. The catholic faith has been pilloried for centuries---correct and rightly so in MOST cases. Crusades, Inquisitions, poisoners for popes, rampant distruction of "pagan" culture, indulgences, celibacy,king-making, Joan of Arc... Some or most----I will give you my address and you can sit down and talk to an investigator that worked with the church for years on these cases...and saw with his own eyes the cover-up. And one more point---even the democrats wouldn't try to cover up a scandal like this...but the church will.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:12:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:17:21 AM EDT
Sure we could START there!
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:18:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Now if "I" had started this thread...
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I can't believe you didn't [:D] Just kidding.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:22:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 10:23:04 AM EDT by MIerinMD]
Originally Posted By hound: The catholic faith has been pilloried for centuries---correct and rightly so in MOST cases. Crusades, Inquisitions, poisoners for popes, rampant distruction of "pagan" culture, indulgences, celibacy,king-making, Joan of Arc...
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Going a little far back in time to try to make your point, aren't you? I said for centuries BY THIS PROTESTANT NATION. As I recall, "Joan of Arc" [rolleyes] happened a little before this countries birth. BTW, what exactly is your problem with celebacy anyway where you have to put it along with the others in your list of Catholic "crimes?"
Some or most----I will give you my address and you can sit down and talk to an investigator that worked with the church for years on these cases...and saw with his own eyes the cover-up. And one more point---even the democrats wouldn't try to cover up a scandal like this...but the church will.
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Okay, tell you what? Pony up some of this information and post it on the board. We'll discuss it then. Sheesh.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:25:26 AM EDT
Why should a religion be penalized for what a few men have done? That's like saying assault weapons should be banned because some shmuck (that would have done the same crime with a revolver and 30 speed loaders) used it to kill his co-workers....[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:30:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 10:33:37 AM EDT by Steelviper]
Originally Posted By John91498:
Originally Posted By Steelviper: [:K]
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You're a catholic, aren't you?
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Nope. Technically a "Southern Baptist", but more along the lines of non-denominational Protestant. (From my years of non-denominational Protestant services at Air Force churches).
Originally Posted By s0ulzer0: Me? A Troll?
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Nope. It wasn't pointed at you. [:)] The original post by John91498 seemed to fit the troll profile (controversial stance on a controversial topic to rile people up). My observation of that characteristic in no way indicates my position on the subject, just that it seemed like a troll. If any offense was taken, I apologize. I was just calling it as I saw it. Viper Out
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:40:10 AM EDT
The woman who was raped years ago was on TV and describing her ordeal. Can you imagine as a child and your parents, the people you trust the most, tell you to trust some priest and he rapes you. Then, when you try to tell your parents, who are devout Catholics, that this priest did this to you and they say there's no way he could of done that. No wonder this poor lady grew up imbalanced. It was funny, even after the priest in Saddleback admitted to raping kids, that his congregation still wanted him at the altar. Surprisingly, the parents of the kids that were raped were no longer attending that church.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:47:08 AM EDT
How about a solve all solution? Considering the church requires celibacy, and that priests join the church for life, why not castrate them? What is the need for their equipment anyway?
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:52:44 AM EDT
How about doing away with the archaic rule that forbids priests to marry? Priests or not, they are still men, and by allowing them to marry, maybe they can find the physical contact that humans desire, without seeking it from the members of their congregations.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:56:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By s0ulzer0: Me? A Troll?
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Nope. It wasn't pointed at you. [:)] The original post by John91498 seemed to fit the troll profile (controversial stance on a controversial topic to rile people up). My observation of that characteristic in no way indicates my position on the subject, just that it seemed like a troll. If any offense was taken, I apologize. I was just calling it as I saw it. Viper Out
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No apology needed, this whole thing is crap.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 11:01:15 AM EDT
excellent reply...and thanks for not sinking to name-calling..... First point yep ya said protestant---protest against what? the church and centuries of arrogance and deception. Celibacy---as stated in another posts celibacy was put in place for inheritance issues....not biblical General outline-priests being moved to other parishes or sent on retreats after accusations and then returned to prey on children again. Many of the names are ones you see in the news now. And this investigation was 10 years ago. Are you actually denying that these stories are true or are you just insisting that the church-the people in the pews are not responsible?
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 11:33:44 AM EDT
Interesting that this immoral behavior, and the suggestions of destruction (abolishing) the church are all discussed in the Book of Revelation. The news items are merely following the prediction. Call it what you will, it's all in print.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 11:41:39 AM EDT
MIerinMD, you sure did call that one right, twice!
It amazes me that some people in here, including moderators, scream bloody murder when offensive threads concerning, homosexuals, blacks, jews or other minorities are targeted, yet bizarre anti-Catholic diatribes on this and other threads are tolerated.
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(Changed slightly to add the second "r" in "bizarre.") Where are you guys now? It looks like the tables are turned and now you are "religionists" in the sense of "racists." That is, you will defend your narrow interests vehemently to the exclusion of all others.
What is the difference. Media frenzy.
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Once again the media has gone far beyond reporting the news to MAKING the news. There are parallels here to the almost nonexistent Y2K frenzy that the media created. Now, did some members of the clergy molest children? Undoubtedly. Likewise, were there Y2K problems? Yes. Does either case require huge media coverage? Absolutely not. Having said all of that, am I defending or minimizing the actions of those who have abused children? Again, absolutely not. Child abusers should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 11:49:57 AM EDT
well hardcase steps in...Having said all of that, am I defending or minimizing the actions of those who have abused children? Again, absolutely not. Child abusers should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.---not according to the councils which gave these guys another chance!!! As has been stated in threads on patriotism..if ya ain't for us you are against us...whether you are defending muslims or catholic priests...in this instance you are wrong. Media coverage is the only way to drag this into the light and get it fixed....we will see what the pope does...
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 12:13:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 12:48:40 PM EDT by loonybin]
Originally Posted By DonR: How about doing away with the archaic rule that forbids priests to marry? Priests or not, they are still men, and by allowing them to marry, maybe they can find the physical contact that humans desire, without seeking it from the members of their congregations.
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Don, Interesting thought, however it does not answer the true problem -- homosexual priests. Out of all the priests accused in all of these sex scandals, only 3 or so are pedophiles (attraction to pre-pubescent kids of either sex). Many of the convicted pedophiles in society are married men, so ending celibacy isn't the answer. The rest of the priests who have been accused are ephebophiles (homosexual attraction to teenage boys). Ending celibacy for them would mean allowing homosexual priests to marry-- a moral and sacramental impossibility. The answer would have been to screen them out during seminary so that they never would have been ordained. A man getting ordained [b]knows[/b] he is expected to remain celibate. No one forces him to. If he doesn't think he can be celibate (or doesn't intend to), then he has no business getting ordained.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 12:20:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By loonybin: The answer would have been to screen them out during seminary so that they never would have been ordained.
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Now that is the most logical answer on this whole thread!!! Congrats loonybin!!
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 12:37:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By loonybin: Ending celibacy for them would mean allowing homosexual priests to marry-- a moral and sacramental impossibility.
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I don't think it has to go THAT far. Especially considering that the US Government doesn't even respect same-sex marriages, let alone the Catholic church. The policy in question is whether priests should be able to enter into heterosexual marriages, as a Catholic homosexual marriage is something of a paradox at this time (unless the Catholic church does an about face on the whole homosexuality thing). Viper Out
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 12:47:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Celibacy---as stated in another posts celibacy was put in place inheritance issues....not biblical
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Celibacy was NOT instituted for inheritance issues. It was encouraged by Augustine for the preists under his direction at the end of the 4th century. The whole bunk about it being a medieval invention to get power and land is just that-- bunk. As for celibacy not being biblical, read your Bible again. John the Baptist was celibate. Jesus was celibate. Paul was celibate. Both Jesus and Paul recommended celibacy for some people: Matt. 19:10-12 The disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry." But he said to them, "Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who [b]have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it[/b]." 1 Corinthians 7:8 To the unmarried, and the widows I say that [b]it is well for them to remain single as I do[/b]. 1 Corinthians 7:32-38 I want you to be free from anxieties. [b]The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided[/b]. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, hot to be holy in body and spirit;...If any one thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marry -- it is no sin. but whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity buy having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well. So that he who marries his betrothed does well; [b]and he who refrains from marriage will do better.[/b] And in regards to the "some or [b]most[/b] statement: Studies on this issue have shown that the percentage of Catholic clergy who abuse children is around 2% (2% too many IMHO), which is nowhere close to "most." Let's debate this issue with facts and truth instead of inflamatory rhetoric.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 12:58:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 1:00:07 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By hound: Celibacy---as stated in another posts celibacy was put in place for inheritance issues....
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Oh, puhleeeeeeze! [rolleyes] You're really reaching for this one. That idea was shot down in other posts. So in case you missed it... If the inheritance of priestly property was a problem, the Church could have MUCH MORE EASILY handled it by proclaiming that the priests were legal representatives of the Church and that all property acquired by priests is acquired on behalf of the Church. Period. End of story. you can keep your wife and have your sex. But remember you're just tenents living on Church property. Seems THAT would be a much easier sell than "total celibacy".
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 1:04:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Steelviper:
Originally Posted By loonybin: Ending celibacy for them would mean allowing homosexual priests to marry-- a moral and sacramental impossibility.
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I don't think it has to go THAT far. The policy in question is whether priests should be able to enter into heterosexual marriages, as a Catholic homosexual marriage is something of a paradox at this time (unless the Catholic church does an about face on the whole homosexuality thing). Viper Out
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But the issue is NOT celibacy. There are some in the Church who are trying to use these scandals to advance their own adgendas (ending celibacy being one of them), and the media is playing along. As I stated, ending celibacy isn't the answer, because the vast majority of the abuse cases have been cases of homosexuals breaking their vows by abusing teenage boys. Allowing straight men to become priests won't stop the homosexual priests from abusing kids.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 1:24:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By loonybin: But the issue is NOT celibacy. Allowing straight men to become priests won't stop the homosexual priests from abusing kids.
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I agree totally. If they were homosexual in the first place, allowing them to enter into a false marriage (for appearance sake) would help nothing. I was just addressing the allowing marriage = allowing homosexual marriage statement earlier. Viper Out
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