User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:35:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Thier are a million and one ways to kill yourself. Trains, bridges, ropes, knives, guns, cars, pills, yada, yada...
The Second Amendement says SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. What part of that don't you understand 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:35:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Its too hard to tell if he's still suicidal or not. And theres really no way to tell.
I say cannot answer, not enough info. So technically, yes, he should be allowed firearms. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:36:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Really depends on multiple factors.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:37:40 PM EDT
[#4]
No dude i agree with you. This is the way I feel also. I was just wondering what the opinions were on the board and what anybody thought about how all of this new crap they want to do might affect this. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:42:39 PM EDT
[#5]
From the information in the original post, the person should not be barred from owning firearms. There is no legal reason to prevent this person from owning firearms, unless he had been adjucated mentally defective or had been involuntarily committed to a psychiatric facility.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:44:29 PM EDT
[#6]
If a police investigation determined that you attempted suicide, how is this different from being adjucated mentally defective? And whats going to happen to him when all of these new NICS reporting laws they want are going to show him as being someone who supposudely attempted suicide? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:44:31 PM EDT
[#7]
just because you tried to kill yourself doesn't mean you're mentally ill.
If he tried to kill himself and didn't know why.... then that might be a sign of mental illness IMO neither should result in having your constitutional rights taken away. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:47:13 PM EDT
[#8]
What about felons? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:47:22 PM EDT
[#9]
at the time I guess he was having problems in his marriage so he decided to cheat on his wife, felt guilty, got drunk, doesn't remember anything else. That's as much of the story as I know. He's active in our church now and doesn't drink. This was also a long time ago. I told him not to worry about it but he is kind of worried with all of this talk now (mostly me telling him stuff that i read on arfcom) that he might get screwed over. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:49:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Normally felons are people who infringed upon someones else's rights, therefore give up their claim to their own by default. While suicide is morally wrong, this person did not harm anyone else. That would be the difference, in my opinion. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:52:11 PM EDT
[#11]
I don't see anything in the constitution that states anything about a person's rights being taken away based on if they infringed upon another's. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:52:44 PM EDT
[#12]
People that attempt suicide must really suck at life to fail that, too.
Sorry, but I have little sympathy for those kinds of people. I'm up in the air on whether or not they can buy a gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:53:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Exactly what I was going to post. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:54:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Responsibility = Freedom. If you act in an irresponsible manner, you lose some freedom. Act in a very irresponsible manner and you lose all of your freedom by ending up in jail.
There was never meant to be unlimited freedom with no responsibility. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:54:46 PM EDT
[#15]
No.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:55:37 PM EDT
[#16]
No
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:56:00 PM EDT
[#17]
So who decides whose rights we get to take away, and by what standard? Obviously the Constitution doesn't specify this, it is implied. Just like it is wrong to hurt another person, it is wrong to take away their freedom or their rights. The exception being if they are hurting another person or infringing upon anothers persons right themselves, thereby violating the Constitution. not only the government can violate your liberty or your rights. A criminal who robs you at gunpoint is violating your rights, hence, we have just cause to take away theirs in order to stop them. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:56:37 PM EDT
[#18]
So what you're really saying is that although you are ignorant of the subject, you are still not sure you want to allow them their rights? Sounds a lot like the "you shouldn't be able to buy automatic weapons in any 7-11 so I'm going to vote for more gun control" people. They know not of what they speak, but they'd deny me my rights anyway. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:57:12 PM EDT
[#19]
suicidal? I don't really care, except for the fact that if they use the gun to off themselves it will be used to pass more laws
homicidal? now we have a problem |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:58:31 PM EDT
[#20]
The Constitution is not the only source of law in the United States. The Governement has the right to deprive an individual of his right to everything including life provided that there is due process IAW the 4A, 5A, etc. Break the law and lose your freedoms. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:58:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Well, did he ever have to go to court and/or have a judge rule that he was mentally defective or incompetent to manage his own affairs ? Was he ever involuntarily committed to a mental hospital or other facility ? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:58:59 PM EDT
[#22]
No, and no.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:59:11 PM EDT
[#23]
The other amendments apply to felons as much as law biding citizens however. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:00:42 PM EDT
[#24]
I don't understand your post. I agree that this person made a mistake. So does he. But the way I understand it, we are supposed to be free to make our own decisions in this country until the point that we hurt someone else, at which point the government has the justification to intervene. By your logic, if someday someboy decides that it is 'irresponsible' to watch porn, drink caffeine, eat red meat, drink beer, smoke cigarettes, or live a promiscuous lifestyle, then the government has the justification necessary to take away your freedoms and haul you to jail if you refuse to comply. I am pretty sure that we are supposed to be free to be dumbasses in this country if we want, so long as we don't ham anyone else or infringe upon anyone elses right to be a dumbass. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:00:43 PM EDT
[#25]
I think thats a bit of a stretch however. I am playing devil's advocate, so don't crucify me. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:02:26 PM EDT
[#26]
I tend to lean towards not allowing them to own firearms.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:03:11 PM EDT
[#27]
no....when he woke up in the hospital it really woke him up. No problems since then apparently. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:03:50 PM EDT
[#28]
No
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:04:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Was he involuntarily confined to the hospital psych ward ? |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:06:15 PM EDT
[#30]
I like the 'Shall not be infringed' part of that amendment.
If someone wants to end their life, it's their own right. If they've tried to kill other people before, then I could understand not wanting to give them a gun (or any weapon really). If they haven't tried anything in several years, then I don't think it really matters. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:06:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Yes, and they should be issued a 12ga shotgun and a round of birdshot upon leaving the hospital.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:08:38 PM EDT
[#32]
nope i guess he spent a good month in the ICU after it happened. By the time he was conscious they sent psychiatrists to interview him and stuff, and no one thought that he was a suicide risk. He says he was just glad to be alive. He also voluntarily went to treatment for a time after the incident. He doesn't anymore. He says he didn't need to be doped up by psychiatrists to fix his problems. This was also a long time ago. |
|||||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:09:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Agreed. It's a person's own problem if they want to be foolish and kill themselves. It's a much bigger deal, however, when they're threatening to kill others. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:09:55 PM EDT
[#34]
yeah that is another matter altogether |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:10:00 PM EDT
[#35]
Then it sounds to me like he should be good to go. I am not a lawyer, obviously. |
||||||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:10:39 PM EDT
[#36]
I think if someone has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution and/or hospital as the result of a suicide attempt, they should be barred from purchasing firearms.
This restriction could be lifted after obtaining a referral from a private psychologist (with the session being paid for by the state) stating that you are no longer a danger to yourself. Seems fair to me, anyway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:12:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Just remember that what constitutes "insane" or "mental problems" can be VERY flexible, depending who is deciding it.
Any of you folks on Prozac? Better be VERY wary of who is deciding the above. Ever been treated for depression, like after the death of a loved one? Watch out. See my point? The road to hell is paved with good intentions....... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:13:59 PM EDT
[#38]
The worst part about it is the police declared it a suicide attempt, but he says he really doesn't remember, and I believe him. He does admit that during that time he thought about it. His wife thinks he was drunk and playing with the idea, and when he passed out accidently shot himself.
I don't know what really happened. I do know that this guy is not a danger to anyone. All of this new talk about NICS and mental illness got me thinking about this. I think the real issue with all of this is who is going to be included in the list of people that are 'allowed' to go on excersizing their rights, especially when some of these people have never hurt anyone else. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:14:31 PM EDT
[#39]
+1 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:15:54 PM EDT
[#40]
yeah what psychologist would ever do that. What kind of liability would that thrust into their lap. not to mention I wouldn't doubt that a great deal of them are anti's t begin with. This guy wasn't involuntarily commited to anything. He was thankful that the people in the intesive care unit that saved his life. I know, I visited him in the hospital. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:17:53 PM EDT
[#41]
He owns firearms now. A lot of them in fact, and has for a long time. We go shooting all the time. I know he is good to go now, its after all of this new legislation people are talking about that he might be screwed. |
|||||||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:23:24 PM EDT
[#42]
In regard to the suicide angle of the question, there are a thousand ways to kill yourself, and a gun is messy, violent, and rude. There are a dozen other ways to do it that leave the family an opportunity to call it a tragic accident or find some way to convince themselves the dead party wasn't so callous to their feelings as to off himself. And the guilt trips and all the bullshit that goes with it.
As for your friend in this particular example he should certainly have the right to own firearms, just as much as you or I. The mental health restrictions as they are set out today are fair and adequate. Any other talk of mental health issues being used to restrict gun ownership infringes on the Second Ammenment. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:27:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Suicide attempt - No loss of rights .
Non violent felony - No loss of rights once penalty is over . Violent felony - Loss of all rights for good . Times have changed since the 2nd amendment was written . Like it or not . Back then , what constitutes a violent felony today would get you dead . Either by the states hand or the community . Those that did go to prison often didn't survive the sentence , or if they did it was enough of a deterrent that you didn't want to do it again . Compared to what we have today , many criminals consider the time to be an acceptable risk . |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:32:35 PM EDT
[#44]
If someone is convicted of being a child molester years ago, should they be allowed to open a day care at some point in the future?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:35:30 PM EDT
[#45]
child molester = predator suicide attempt = dumbass who only hurt themselves....much like a smoker or an alcoholic |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:37:02 PM EDT
[#46]
So a suicide doesn't hurt others? Really? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:37:30 PM EDT
[#47]
While I agree with you in principle about the 2nd amendment, there are certain cases were people have proven they are not responsible enough to own guns. For example, should prisoners in prison be allowed to own guns while in jail? What about convicted felons once they have served their time? People that have been committed to a mental institution? You have to draw a line somewhere and say certain people have demonstrated without a shadow of doubt they cannot be trusted with firearms. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:37:32 PM EDT
[#48]
This person is not a threat or danger to anyone else. Even IF they are a threat to themselves, how does that give anyone else the right to infringe upon their rights. Especially without being able to prove that this person has intent to harm themselves. It doesn't make any sense. "We want to protect your life by taking it away from you" WTF? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:38:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Someone can kill themselves just as easly w/o a gun. If the person is deemed no danger to him/herslef or others, then IMO there's no reason why they cant own a gun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:39:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Not directly. Not in the sense of violating someone elses rights. Suicide is wrong. So is watching pornography. Its the family and possibly the Churches realm, not the governements. Suicide hurts others just like alcoholism or laziness hurts others. |
|||
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
