Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 4/18/2007 1:33:30 AM EST
Hi there, new member here. I read this article today
news.uk.msn.com/virginia_campus_shootings_history_ignored.aspx

where I came across this statement

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said: “The latest school shooting demands an immediate end to the gun-free zone law which leaves the nation's schools at the mercy of madmen. It is irresponsibly dangerous to tell citizens that they may not have guns at schools. The Virginia Tech shooting shows that killers have no concern about a gun ban when murder is in their hearts.”

I would be interested to hear what members think about this - should school children be armed?

Regards

Andy
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 1:34:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 1:39:46 AM EST
And so the great troll migration begins.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 1:41:08 AM EST
Definately a troll. First post with a numbskull question like that? seriously? Look on the brightside, at least a 35 lb second grader wouldnt get his lunch money stolen...
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 1:46:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 1:47:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 1:48:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 1:52:14 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
I get the feeling this will be a drive by post.


I'll give him the opportunity to clarify himself before I boot him.


Maybe he's gone back to protecting his bridge.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 1:54:40 AM EST
troll, so I'm gonna shit on this thread
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 1:58:01 AM EST



This oughta do the trick.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:02:10 AM EST
Probably tracking the referrer (arfcom)

Some kind of commie plot, tighten the tin-foil gang.

Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:06:14 AM EST
Armed with "Gernades"
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:09:05 AM EST
He is referring to University students over 21 and in cases of primary and secondary schools, allowing the teachers to arm themselves if they so choose.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:09:30 AM EST
IBTL...
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:18:49 AM EST
Go back to DU and leave us alone.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:23:34 AM EST
OK guys, let me change my question - do you think that arming students (over the age of 21) would reduce the number of people who are killed and injured at places of education.

Cheers

Andy

PS. What's a troll?
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:29:40 AM EST
If any of the victims had been able to defend themselves , it would have made a difference.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:33:22 AM EST
But do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?

Andy
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:39:39 AM EST

Quoted:
OK guys, let me change my question - do you think that arming students (over the age of 21) would reduce the number of people who are killed and injured at places of education.

Cheers

Andy

PS. What's a troll?



Nobody is talking about arming students.

Some law-abiding adults choose to carry a weapon in compliance with the laws of their state.  Many states restrict that right on school property and and school sanctioned events.  Where it is not restricted by law, schools and colleges often have their own policy forbidding weapons.
We are just asking that those restrictions be lifted.

I would hope you believe that as a human being, you have the right to defend yourself from an attacker.  If someone is trying to stab you to death, I am guessing you would make some attempt to stop them, right?  Unless your answer is "No, I would stand there and allow myself to be stabbed to death", then to at least some degree you believe in the right to defense.  Why should reasonable means of self-defense be restricted on a school/university campus?

Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:40:50 AM EST

Quoted:
But do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?

Andy


Nobody is taling about arming students.  Absolutely nobody.  Anywhere.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:41:17 AM EST

Quoted:
But do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?

Andy


Why are you framing your question in such a way? Could you please reframe your qusetion in a non-loaded way, please? I feel like Geraldo or Jerry Springer just came on board with "gotcha" journalism.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:42:01 AM EST

Quoted:
OK guys, let me change my question - do you think that arming students (over the age of 21) would reduce the number of people who are killed and injured at places of education.

Cheers

Andy

PS. What's a troll?


  A troll is someone who registers on sight such as this one and asks leading or disruptive questions for the purpose of making said sight look bad or get political ammo.  Ie: Post # 1 and you asking if school children should be armed.  School children?  No one on this or any other board I have ever seen would advocate arming children.
ETA: Andy, by the time I got this typed you have posted again and it obvious you are a troll.  NO ONE is advocating arming ANYONE.  But adults should be allowed to defend themselves.  Please go somewhere else to troll.  This is a good site and you are stinking it up.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:47:24 AM EST
Since this came about as a result of the VT incident...

To get a concealed handgun permit in Virginia the applicant must be 21 years old or older.  So, obviously not every student would be armed, and Pratt (who lives in VA) obviously wasn't talking about arming "school children" as the OP stated.

Seniors, graduate students, faculty, and staff would have the option if they so chose.  Sadly they didn't have that option available, the shooter knew it, and knew that he could commit mass murder with impunity.

FWIW why do you think schools are the #1 target of these mass murderers?  It's because they know that no one will immediately stop them.  "Gun-free zones" are only gun-free to the law-abiding, not the criminals.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:51:13 AM EST

Quoted:
But do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?

Andy


Rephrase the question....

Do you think disarming everyone at a university is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?



Maybe someone forgot to tell Cho Seung-Hui that Virgina Tech is a gun free campus?
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:51:33 AM EST
Hi Guys, having read you definition I am not a troll. I am not trying to do anything here other than learn your opinions.

People seem to be willing to give me lots of opinions nobody seems happy to answer my question

Do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?

In case there is any confusion about my opinion - I think that people with guns kill more people than people without guns do.

Andy
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:51:53 AM EST

Quoted:
But do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?

Andy


Everyone? No. Many people just don’t have the mindset to be armed. These people are usually scared of firearms or weapons and wouldn’t be able to act if something were to happen. Fortunately they usually know this and don’t want to touch a firearm.

But allowing anyone who wanted to be armed, was over 21 (or 18 for that matter), and did not have a criminal history or a history or mental illness carry a gun would reduce the chances of something like this happening.

Does anyone doubt that having more police officers around would reduces the chances of something like this happening? Most liberal gun control types wouldn’t even question that this would help. Well, a cop is just a guy with a gun. The kind of people who carry concealed weapons are the same kind of people who would be police officers, if they weren’t doing some other job. Virtually everyone who has a CCW permit would qualify (Mentally and morally, not physically) to be hired as a police officer.

So, what’s the difference? Liberals would think it was a great thing to hire a bunch of people as cops, give them badges and guns, and put them out on the street. Liberals would feel safer. But, when you take those same people and let them carry concealed weapons on their own, liberals freak out. Sure some bad people can occasionally get CCW permits (it’s rare) but bad people also occasionally become police officers. They can do far more damage as a cop than they can as a citizen with a CCW permit.

Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:56:01 AM EST

Quoted:
Hi Guys, having read you definition I am not a troll. I am not trying to do anything here other than learn your opinions.

People seem to be willing to give me lots of opinions nobody seems happy to answer my question

Do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?

In case there is any confusion about my opinion - I think that people with guns kill more people than people without guns do.

Andy


I guess it is just hard to find your question relevant.  Nobody has said anything about everyone at a university carrying a weapon except you.
You are looking for an answer to a very specific question, hoping that an absurd senario will help you promote your position.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:57:45 AM EST
Anyone over 21 who has completed a CHL course should be able too.  As far as arming 10 year olds no way.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:57:50 AM EST

I think that people with guns kill more people than people without guns do.

That's brilliant.  

get outta here, son.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 2:58:52 AM EST
Not EVERYONE at a University should carry a gun. We believe that law-abiding citizens who are of age (21) and licensed, should be able to carry their weapon anywhere that they choose. If just a few of these licensed people were carrying on campus, this could have ended very differently.

No one should be required to carry a gun. Those who are legal and licensed should be allowed to carry at Universities. It would certainly make the University safer.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:00:27 AM EST

Quoted:
Not EVERYONE at a University should carry a gun. We believe that law-abiding citizens who are of age (21) and licensed, should be able to carry their weapon anywhere that they choose. If just a few of these licensed people were carrying on campus, this could have ended very differently.

No one should be required to carry a gun. Those who are legal and licensed should be allowed to carry at Universities. It would certainly make the University safer.

+1

I agree with this 100%!

Back in the 1970's, the PLO had a habit of staging attacks on elementary schools in Israel.  Teachers and administrators were armed after that and for some reason the problem stopped.  Seems that most attackers will look for a softer target if they are likely to encounter anyone who may fight back.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:02:44 AM EST

Quoted:
PS. What's a troll?




Ya, right.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:04:42 AM EST
If ONE person in one of the classrooms or the hallway had a pistol in that VT building then 32 students would have had better chances of being alright.

We put our students in a position to be sitting ducks. The best they can do is throw books while others shoot.


Would it reduce school shootings? I believe it would. Obviously schools get shot up becasue they are places where you cant have guns and alot of people gather in small areas. Google "crime displacement". If someone wants to shoot as many people as possible, school or the post office is the place to do it.

Its rare that malls or churches get shot up. There are to many people there who can shoot back.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:05:33 AM EST

Quoted:
Hi Guys, having read you definition I am not a troll. I am not trying to do anything here other than learn your opinions.

People seem to be willing to give me lots of opinions nobody seems happy to answer my question

Do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?

In case there is any confusion about my opinion - I think that people with guns kill more people than people without guns do.

Andy


Fool
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:05:57 AM EST

Quoted:
In case there is any confusion about my opinion - I think that people with guns kill more people than people without guns do.

Andy



And you base this misconception on what exactly?  What you read in the media?  

If you're going to ask such questions, you should bring balance to your inquisition and also ask how many people are killed with guns compared to those without.  Newsflash dognobbler, violent offenders don't give a second thought to gun legislation.  The only people affected are the law abiding taxpaying types with a clean record.  There is a background check ya know.

Unfortunately for your utopian view on gun control - reality doesn't work like that.  What happened at VT was and is a tragedy.  The solution doesn't lie with gun control legislation.  Clearly that won't fix the problem.  That rabbit hole goes much deeper than you're willing to look.

I also think people with guns are much polite than those without.  An armed society is a polite society.  

But no, in my opinion school children under the age of 18 should not be armed.  Leave that to security.  
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:08:49 AM EST
Quoted:
Hi there, new member here. I read this article today
news.uk.msn.com/virginia_campus_shootings_history_ignored.aspx

where I came across this statement

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said: “The latest school shooting demands an immediate end to the gun-free zone law which leaves the nation's schools at the mercy of madmen. It is irresponsibly dangerous to tell citizens that they may not have guns at schools. The Virginia Tech shooting shows that killers have no concern about a gun ban when murder is in their hearts.”

I would be interested to hear what members think about this - should school children be armed?

Are you serious.................Children and guns don't mix. You of all people should know that.  What really needs to happen is a revamp of our Courts, Judges, and Lawyers
and start holding people accountable for their actions.
I truly believe that if our courts starting picking up on European Cold War punishments
and executions, our jails and prisons would never be filled to maximum capacity, and
would be law breakers would more than likely think twice before their actions. Plain and
simple.........
It's time for a change.................
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:14:44 AM EST
Well, dognobbler...  You have four posts on ARFCOM now.  Do you own a homeland defense rifle yet?  Usually BRD spreads very quickly.


Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:16:01 AM EST
What exactly is Dog Nobbling?

Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:19:21 AM EST

Quoted:
What exactly is Dog Nobbling?



Yeah.  I was kinda wondering that myself, but was afraid to be the first one to ask.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:19:27 AM EST
The answer for VT and for every town, city and state in this country is the same as it has always been.  Some responsible citizens of society should be armed and allowed to protect themselves and others from harm of the few that choose to take liberties away from law abiding and peaceful citizens.  This does not mean you crank up the factories and hand out guns to every man, woman and child capable of picking up a weapon.  This means that competent, sane individuals ought to have full right to be armed and groups of such can also legally form militias for the purpose of protecting the well being of other citizens.

This is the job of police as well, however they cannot be everywhere all of the time.  So a subsection of us that arent full time Law Enforcement individuals should also take it upon ourselves to shoulder some of that burdon.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:21:23 AM EST

Quoted:
What exactly is Dog Nobbling?




1 British : to incapacitate (a racehorse) especially by drugging


So he drugs dogs, and then fucks them in the ass presumably. Why else would you drug dogs other than to fuck 'em and eat them?
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:24:14 AM EST

Quoted:
In case there is any confusion about my opinion - I think that people with guns kill more people than people without guns do.


I think people with cars kill more people than people with guns do.

Yet I don't hear you asking if we should give cars to children.

BTW, the minimum age for CCW in almost all states is 21.  Hardly a child.

Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:25:22 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
What exactly is Dog Nobbling?




1 British : to incapacitate (a racehorse) especially by drugging


So he drugs dogs, and then fucks them in the ass presumably. Why else would you drug dogs other than to fuck 'em and eat them?


Allright, Andy or DogFucker or whatever your name is, JUST GO AWAY.  That's a troll.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:28:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:32:23 AM EST
Hey foolish troll I guess you cant handle a firearm in a responsible manner so I agree you should stay away from them. Please dont paint everone with your lowered standards.

I had access to my own guns from 7th grade on, it was rare day when I couldnt go into the school parking lot or right into my backpack and get a pistol or rifle. My friends had shotguns/rifle in the back window of their trucks in the school parking lot all the time.

Every single one of the spree killings with the highest death toll have one thing in common, nobody was there with a gun during the early stages of the event to challenge the coward. Yet, in the case of the Pearl, Mississippi School shooting, the Alrosa Villa shooting in Columbus, Ohio and the Appalachian Law School tragedy someone was there to stop the murderer and the death toll was lessened.

Contrast those cases with Columbine, the Luby’s massacre in Killeen, TX, and the McDonald’s massacre in California, where nobody was able to defend themselves due to being legally disarmed, and it becomes apparent that people are safer from spree killers when they resist with a gun.

There are also hundreds of thousands of Americans each year that are alive because they chose to fight back with a firearm.

All the anti-gunners have to show for their 30 year crusade to disarm Americans is a constant parade of murders in areas where guns are specifically banned. Schools and workplaces being the most common gun free zone where homicidal maniacs ply their trade. Doesn’t anyone ever ask why the murders that do this don’t choose police stations or other government buildings to vent their rage at society?

Please stay around the site since you took the time to become a member. You will find out how normal people can be trusted to not only protect their own life but also those around them.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:37:24 AM EST

Quoted:
I would be interested to hear what members think about this - should school children be armed?


Nobody is advocating handing seven year olds .44 magnum revolvers, meathead.

College students who are eligible for concealed carry permits are at least 21 years old....meaning they aren't SCHOOL CHILDREN.

I know that there is a massive trend to try and infantilize college students, but the fact remains that they are ADULTS.

The faculty and staff members are usually well over 21.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:39:31 AM EST

Quoted:
But do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?


Not everyone.

Just the people who can legally do so, namely those with concealed carry permits.

Namely people like me.

I have been regularly carrying at a university for years. Nobody's ever been killed or injured by my weapons. Nobody knows that I am carrying them.

If someone like Cho shows up in one of my classes, you can bet your sweet bippy that the number of gun deaths is going to be reduced, because I am going to kill that motherf*cker or die trying.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:49:06 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
But do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?


Not everyone.

Just the people who can legally do so, namely those with concealed carry permits.

Namely people like me.

I have been regularly carrying at a university for years. Nobody's ever been killed or injured by my weapons. Nobody knows that I am carrying them.

If someone like Cho shows up in one of my classes, you can bet your sweet bippy that the number of gun deaths is going to be reduced, because I am going to kill that motherf*cker or die trying.


I say again - Gun education, not gun control.  We need more people thinking and acting such as John_Wayne777.

Had John been in that classroom - the death toll would have been much less.  Is that worth something?  Of course it is.

He'd sure as hell be much more effective in rectifying a mass murder scene than those fat ass outta shape security guards clambering around on television.  The nation would be better served vamping their campus security than blindly advocating gun control legislation that only affects the law abiding taxpayers with no criminal intent.

Open your eyes and look outside that small box you call a perspective.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 3:52:23 AM EST

Quoted:
I say again - Gun education, not gun control.  We need more people thinking and acting such as John_Wayne777.


If some miserable poster child for the necessity of abortion wants to kill me, he is damn sure going to earn it.

As I said in the now locked VT thread, I am not lining up against the wall for anybody.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 4:00:15 AM EST

Quoted:
Hi Guys, having read you definition I am not a troll. I am not trying to do anything here other than learn your opinions.

People seem to be willing to give me lots of opinions nobody seems happy to answer my question


Maybe because it's your first post with a loaded question - ie one that seems more like a Brady bunch trap than real info seeking? We've seen this behavior before... usually from folks who "cut and paste" back to DU.


Do you think having everyone at university carrying a gun is going to reduce the overall number of gun deaths?


None of us believe that everyone should carry - there are enough people out there that are afraid of their own shadow (much less guns) that have no business carrying a firearm. What most of us would like is simply not to be disarmed due to feel-good rules and regulations that do not stop gun crime. Remember, VT was a "gun free campus"... we saw how much good it did the students and faculty.


In case there is any confusion about my opinion - I think that people with guns kill more people than people without guns do.

Andy


Hmm... so, folks who drive cars kill more people than those who walk?

What about the folks killed with baseball bats, knives, or pillows? Do they kill more people than those without?

And generally, there are two types of people who "kill with guns" - those who are criminals, and those who lawfully defend themselves or others against criminals. BTW - criminals don't care about laws.

This issue has been covered in numerous posts here - a simple effort and a few minutes time would have given you the info you seek.

Even your statement of your opinion seems loaded for a fourth post, and more like a gun grabber than a scholar.

Link Posted: 4/18/2007 4:09:21 AM EST
Huh? What grade are you in, your parents should be monitoring what you post on the internet.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Top Top