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Posted: 9/4/2015 8:50:23 AM EDT
Let's count the hypocrites.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 8:51:35 AM EDT
Troll thread gonna troll
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 8:51:51 AM EDT
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 8:52:30 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.
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I'll go with this.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 8:53:10 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.
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I like the way this guy thinks
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 8:57:40 AM EDT
Refusing to do your job should be a grounds for re-assignment or termination.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 8:57:52 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.
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Link Posted: 9/4/2015 8:58:56 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.
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Second post nails it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 8:59:23 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:


Refusing to do your job should be a grounds for re-assignment or termination.
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Pretty much my read on it too.  No one has a right to be a county clerk or a sheriff or any other public servant.  If they don't want to do the job required of the position, they should be fired.



 
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:00:03 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:





I like the way this guy thinks
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Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:



Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:

No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.


I like the way this guy thinks




 
x2
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:00:40 AM EDT
They shouldn't exist, but since they do, refusal to issue should be a jailable offense. Much like the current marriage license shenanigans in KY
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:00:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2015 9:01:01 AM EDT by Miles_Urbanus]
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Originally Posted By NavyDoc1:



Second post nails it.
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Originally Posted By NavyDoc1:
Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.



Second post nails it.


Yes I agree. Now how do we leverage this ruling to apply to sheriffs in may issue states that NEVER issue?
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:08:42 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Refusing to do your job should be a grounds for re-assignment or termination.
View Quote


yes, but there's a problem with that when it comes to marriage licenses and CCW' permits. both are issued by "ELECTED" officials so  re-assignment or termination doesn't work.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:11:44 AM EDT
That depends. Did a court order you to do it after you refused? And did you then refuse to obey the order?

If so, then yes. You should be jailed for contempt for disobeying the order.

Are you people still barking at this cloud?
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:13:45 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.
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This, and troll thread is troll.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:13:46 AM EDT
I also believe I must take my application to "my" county sheriff. Not the next county over or anywhere else in the US for that matter. Apples and oranges bub.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:15:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Coop4570:


yes, but there's a problem with that when it comes to marriage licenses and CCW' permits. both are issued by "ELECTED" officials so  re-assignment or termination doesn't work.
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Originally Posted By Coop4570:
Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Refusing to do your job should be a grounds for re-assignment or termination.


yes, but there's a problem with that when it comes to marriage licenses and CCW' permits. both are issued by "ELECTED" officials so  re-assignment or termination doesn't work.

Not in my state.  Besides, even if the issuing authority is elected, that person is free to resign his position if he does not want to do what the law compels.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:15:12 AM EDT
Not following the law as written as a public servant should be a jailable offense.

Not for just CCW's.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:16:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
That depends. Did a court order you to do it after you refused? And did you then refuse to obey the order?

If so, then yes. You should be jailed for contempt for disobeying the order.

Are you people still barking at this cloud?
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It really is that simple.  Why are people losing their shit over this?
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:16:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2015 9:16:47 AM EDT by pyotr_k]
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Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Not following the law as written as a public servant should be a jailable offense.

Not for just CCW's.
View Quote


This. If the Supreme Court were to find that elected officials must issue a CCW, issued direct orders to each sheriff or what have you to do just that, then any who don't should be jailed for contempt.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:16:42 AM EDT
Being reasonable?

Sheeeeeeet.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:18:16 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By pyotr_k:


This. If the Supreme Court were to find that elected officials must issue a CCW, issued direct orders to each sheriff or what have you to do just that, then any who don't should be jailed for contempt.
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Originally Posted By pyotr_k:
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Not following the law as written as a public servant should be a jailable offense.

Not for just CCW's.


This. If the Supreme Court were to find that elected officials must issue a CCW, issued direct orders to each sheriff or what have you to do just that, then any who don't should be jailed for contempt.



What to do with Police department employees who do not mirror your enthusiasm?
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:19:34 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Coop4570:


yes, but there's a problem with that when it comes to marriage licenses and CCW' permits. both are issued by "ELECTED" officials so  re-assignment or termination doesn't work.
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Originally Posted By Coop4570:
Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Refusing to do your job should be a grounds for re-assignment or termination.


yes, but there's a problem with that when it comes to marriage licenses and CCW' permits. both are issued by "ELECTED" officials so  re-assignment or termination doesn't work.



Sure, then maybe the fix for this is to simply just get the government out of these areas altogether?
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:20:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.
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Someone has had their coffee this morning.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:20:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By steveba4:
Let's count the hypocrites.
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I think the better question is why do we need a permit to exercise an explicitly stated constitutional right?

I see no right to "marriage" in the constitution, and I see an amendment that says rights not delegated to the federal government are reserved to the states.

You fail at trolling.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:20:54 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Badseed:



What to do with Police department employees who do not mirror your enthusiasm?
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Originally Posted By Badseed:
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Not following the law as written as a public servant should be a jailable offense.

Not for just CCW's.


This. If the Supreme Court were to find that elected officials must issue a CCW, issued direct orders to each sheriff or what have you to do just that, then any who don't should be jailed for contempt.



What to do with Police department employees who do not mirror your enthusiasm?


Same thing.

#It'sNotThatHardPeople
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:22:03 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.
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This guy gets it.

There are quite a few Sheriffs who wont issue CCW's.  None of them have gone to jail for it.

Now who's the hypocrites OP?
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:24:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Refusing to do your job should be a grounds for re-assignment or termination.
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And if it is an elected official, should the local people handle it through the election process, recall, or/and impeachment.

Or should the federal government swoop in and force the issue even when no federal law has been violated.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:27:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2015 9:27:35 AM EDT by pyotr_k]
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Originally Posted By Badseed:



What to do with Police department employees who do not mirror your enthusiasm?
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Originally Posted By Badseed:
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Not following the law as written as a public servant should be a jailable offense.

Not for just CCW's.


This. If the Supreme Court were to find that elected officials must issue a CCW, issued direct orders to each sheriff or what have you to do just that, then any who don't should be jailed for contempt.



What to do with Police department employees who do not mirror your enthusiasm?


Contempt of the Supreme Court? You do the same as with any other government employee or elected official in this hypothetical, and throw them in jail until they resign or comply. It's not a complicated situation.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:27:29 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By LibertyUberAlles:

It really is that simple.  Why are people losing their shit over this?
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Originally Posted By LibertyUberAlles:
Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
That depends. Did a court order you to do it after you refused? And did you then refuse to obey the order?

If so, then yes. You should be jailed for contempt for disobeying the order.

Are you people still barking at this cloud?

It really is that simple.  Why are people losing their shit over this?

Feels
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:28:15 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By chase45:
They shouldn't exist, but since they do, refusal to issue should be a jailable offense. Much like the current marriage license shenanigans in KY
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That is a clear cut case of civil disobedience, IMO a rebellion against the overreach of of the USSC.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:28:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:

Feels
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
Originally Posted By LibertyUberAlles:
Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
That depends. Did a court order you to do it after you refused? And did you then refuse to obey the order?

If so, then yes. You should be jailed for contempt for disobeying the order.

Are you people still barking at this cloud?

It really is that simple.  Why are people losing their shit over this?

Feels



feelz > realz

A lot of people here, especially in other threads, are sounding an awful lot like crybaby "social justice warriors".
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:30:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By pyotr_k:


Contempt of the Supreme Court? You do the same as with any other government employee or elected official in this hypothetical, and throw them in jail until they resign or comply. It's not a complicated situation.
View Quote


It would be contempt of the trial court that issued the direct order (consistent with the appellate decision(s)).

But yes, that's how it works. Defy a court order. Go to jail for contempt. Doesn't matter what the order is - mow you lawn, pay your child support, issue a license. Makes no difference.

Hard concept, I know.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:31:06 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.
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Agreed, but they do, so yes, there should be legal repercussions.

I like your thought process, OP.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:31:20 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By pyotr_k:

feelz > realz

A lot of people here, especially in other threads, are sounding an awful lot like crybaby "social justice warriors".
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These are the same people who think SCOTUS is going to save us from illegal immigrant anchor babies.

Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:33:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:


It would be contempt of the trial court that issued the direct order (consistent with the appellate decision(s)).

But yes, that's how it works. Defy a court order. Go to jail for contempt. Doesn't matter what the order is - mow you lawn, pay your child support, issue a license. Makes no difference.

Hard concept, I know.
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:


Contempt of the Supreme Court? You do the same as with any other government employee or elected official in this hypothetical, and throw them in jail until they resign or comply. It's not a complicated situation.


It would be contempt of the trial court that issued the direct order (consistent with the appellate decision(s)).

But yes, that's how it works. Defy a court order. Go to jail for contempt. Doesn't matter what the order is - mow you lawn, pay your child support, issue a license. Makes no difference.

Hard concept, I know.


Thank you for the clarification. You are, of course, absolutely right on the technical details, but the outcome is (and should be) the exact same. I don't get why some people are having so much trouble with this.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:41:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By pyotr_k:

Thank you for the clarification. You are, of course, absolutely right on the technical details, but the outcome is (and should be) the exact same. I don't get why some people are having so much trouble with this.
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A combination of their lack of understanding of civics, and their disagreement with SCOTUS decisions, with a healthy sprinkling of religion.

In other words, it's pretty much a waste of time to argue with them on the Internet.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:48:47 AM EDT
Is refusing to issue marriage permits a jailable offense?

Well then, there's your answer.

Refusing to issue liquor licenses should also now be a jailable offense.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:50:31 AM EDT
Yes.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:50:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:


A combination of their lack of understanding of civics, and their disagreement with SCOTUS decisions, with a healthy sprinkling of religion.

In other words, it's pretty much a waste of time to argue with them on the Internet.
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:

Thank you for the clarification. You are, of course, absolutely right on the technical details, but the outcome is (and should be) the exact same. I don't get why some people are having so much trouble with this.


A combination of their lack of understanding of civics, and their disagreement with SCOTUS decisions, with a healthy sprinkling of religion.

In other words, it's pretty much a waste of time to argue with them on the Internet.


Indeed.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:51:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:


I think the better question is why do we need a permit to exercise an explicitly stated constitutional right?

I see no right to "marriage" in the constitution, and I see an amendment that says rights not delegated to the federal government are reserved to the states.

You fail at trolling.
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By steveba4:
Let's count the hypocrites.


I think the better question is why do we need a permit to exercise an explicitly stated constitutional right?

I see no right to "marriage" in the constitution, and I see an amendment that says rights not delegated to the federal government are reserved to the states.

You fail at trolling.


You fail at what RIGHT means.  

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

That IS in the Constitution.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 9:55:47 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:

I like the way this guy thinks
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Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.

I like the way this guy thinks

Link Posted: 9/4/2015 10:04:31 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By camarojsmith:

I'll go with this.
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Originally Posted By camarojsmith:
Originally Posted By I_am_Dan:
No, because like Marriage Licenses, they shouldn't exist.

I'll go with this.


Me too.
(I'll have to change my vote though   )
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 10:06:43 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Refusing to do your job should be a grounds for re-assignment or termination.
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"Just Following Orders."
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 10:13:07 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Shqype:

"Just Following Orders."
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Originally Posted By Shqype:
Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Refusing to do your job should be a grounds for re-assignment or termination.

"Just Following Orders."



Not sure where you are trying to lead this one...
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 10:15:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2015 10:15:39 AM EDT by orpheus762x51]
Yes, because guns are in the constitution and marrying who you're butt fucking isn't.

ETA: Oh, and FPNI.  Troll.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 10:15:20 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Shqype:

"Just Following Orders."
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Originally Posted By Shqype:
Originally Posted By TacticalHeater:
Refusing to do your job should be a grounds for re-assignment or termination.

"Just Following Orders."


Yes, doing your job and not violating rights is tantamount to the Nazi extermination of millions.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 10:17:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Yes, because guns are in the constitution and marrying who you're butt fucking isn't.

ETA: Oh, and FPNI.  Troll.
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You don't have enough emanations from your penumbra to understand, bro.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 10:22:22 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:


You fail at what RIGHT means.  

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

That IS in the Constitution.
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Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By steveba4:
Let's count the hypocrites.


I think the better question is why do we need a permit to exercise an explicitly stated constitutional right?

I see no right to "marriage" in the constitution, and I see an amendment that says rights not delegated to the federal government are reserved to the states.

You fail at trolling.


You fail at what RIGHT means.  

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

That IS in the Constitution.


Then everything can be argued to be a right. Ridiculous. That's a bullshit interpretation that creates yet another catch all for the federal government to constantly expand its power. If the federal government declares something a right, they then use incorporation to impose their will upon the states. This lys completely in the face of our constitutional foundation which called for a federal government with limited powers, strong protections for the states, and a very limited judiciary that has increased it's power through fiat.

The powers not delegated to the federal government are reserved to the states. If marriage is a right, it's one that is regulated by the states, NOT the federal government.
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 10:27:00 AM EDT
I'd be ok with that if the law states that the chief or sheriff is obligated to issue them and he/she simply refuses.

Of course, in California the law is structured and worded suck that the issuing chief LEO has sole discretion over whether or not he/she will issue.  It is "may issue" and requires "good cause".  Most every department openly declares that "defense of self, family, and home" is NOT good cause.

Fortunately, my Sheriff's policy is "shall issue".

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/4/2015 10:27:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:


A combination of their lack of understanding of civics, and their disagreement with SCOTUS decisions, with a healthy sprinkling of religion.

In other words, it's pretty much a waste of time to argue with them on the Internet.
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:

Thank you for the clarification. You are, of course, absolutely right on the technical details, but the outcome is (and should be) the exact same. I don't get why some people are having so much trouble with this.


A combination of their lack of understanding of civics, and their disagreement with SCOTUS decisions, with a healthy sprinkling of religion.

In other words, it's pretty much a waste of time to argue with them on the Internet.


Fun time-waster, though. Beats sitting here bored out of my mind, waiting to work.
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