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Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
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Posted: 4/28/2001 1:45:47 PM EST
I July I am planing on buying my first AR, as of right now I will get either a bushy XM15 E2S 20 A2 or a bushy M4.  I am buying on because: For Sh!ts and gigglz, hunting groundhogs and yotes, plinking/target shooting, SHTF, and home defense in no praticular order.  I guess it would be 3-9 or 4-10 power range.  Should I leave alone or add one on? Also, it will be the only AR I plan on buying, must save up now for a Browning .300WSM.
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 1:58:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 3:18:26 PM EST
You can shoot groundhogs with iron sights. You can also buy a 20" flattop upper to go with the M4 upper. You have the carbine for home defense and the rifle with a scope for varmints. That is the really neat thing about ARs.


If you buy the AR15.com Limit Edition, you will be in business because it is a flattop carbine that will take a scope and a carry handle or OKO scope, all of which you can order at the same time.  So what are you waiting for?  
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 3:47:01 PM EST
The 20" with A2 sights will give you groundhog accuracy to 200+yds. I can put continuous 10-shot strings into the 10-ring at 200. This is off the bench of course.

If you KNOW you will be mounting a scope get a flat-top. It'll make things much easier.
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:52:50 PM EST
Figure out what your usage is going to be (plinking, target, home defense, assault an enemy position, etc.) and but scope/mount accordningly.

I use a  1x red dot mounted in front of carry handle over handguards for "general purpose" applications.  May go to a flat top one of these days...

The Sniper
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:57:25 PM EST
For old eyes like mine, I prefer a scope. It is just a cheap BEC 4X, cost me $30, and still allows me the use of iron sights.
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 8:21:44 PM EST
HEY, that's my scope and I like my scope!  It's perfect as a, you might say, "built in spotting scope" (just tip your head and see where you are) and perfect for 300+ yard shots.  Best long-range high quality scope you can get for under $400.

...but yeah I'll admit that does look kinda ridiculous doesn't it [:P]

[i]"Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes".  Whites nothing...I can tell you what your prescription is[/i]
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 8:59:34 PM EST
No, No it's not longer than the barrel...

...until you put the sunshades on it, then it get pretty close [;D]

Link Posted: 4/28/2001 9:36:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 4:26:24 AM EST
USPC40, how does it effect targeting when you have your scope that high above the barrel line?  Ex.  at 100 yrds, 200 yrds, 300 yrds....

I'm thinking of buying a flattop upper so the scope will be closer to the barrel.  I've always been told that you should have the scope as close as you can get it to the barrel.  HOWEVER, if it really doesn't make that much of a difference, I may just keep using the scope mount on the handle and save time and money.  

Link Posted: 4/30/2001 4:29:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 7:38:04 AM EST
markm, care to elaborate?!  

No, it makes no difference.
No, don't use a handle mounted scope rail.
No, height above the barrel line doesn't make a difference.
Or No, I won't give you my opinion!  :)

Link Posted: 4/30/2001 9:59:14 AM EST
Get the a2 upper. If you want a scope you can always get a cheek rest and a scope rail later. I'd go with a 20" match barrel and standard iron sights. Sight it in correctly and use decent ammo (I reload my own, usually .55 grain fmj, powder charge varies with application). Can hit a 10" * 6" steel plate at 150 to 200 yards, no problem, w/ iron sights. DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT GET AN A1 UPPER!
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 10:14:14 AM EST
That scope picture wasn't from USPC40, it was from me.

As far as ranges go, the ONLY range I've shot on so far has been a 100 yard range near my home.  I've only owned the gun for about 3 months (or should I say *a* gun for 3 months), but hopefully sometime this summer I should get a few good hours in on a 300 yard range before I go to a reduced-course competition.

So, I really can't answer your question about how accurate the thing is on different ranges.  I've sighted it in on 100 yards for the sheer use of having it as a makeshift spotting scope (which it does quite well, I might add).  It'll put 80% of my shots in the 10-ring (2-inch circle), so good enough for that.  I will eventually use my ironsights for ranges UP TO 200 yards (maybe 300), and then sight my scope in for 300 or 600 ranges, depending on what I do with my irons.  If the only courses I shoot are 300 max, then I will use it for that range purpose.

OH by the way, my "Why Do I Suck Ass?" post (because I can't hit more than an 8-ring at 100 friggin yards off a bipod and bench with my irons...I did one time, now I just seem to be getting worse) is coming soon guys...look for it sometime this week!

[i]I love you guys....ahh, screw you guys[/i] - South Park
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 10:14:46 AM EST
World Wolf, I actually HAVE a complete AR, with the A2 upper.  However, I was going to get a flattop upper housing thinking that you're supposed to have the scope down as close as you can to the barrel.  

My question was, does it really make a difference if the scope is on the level of a flattop, or a handle mounted scope rail.  
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 11:24:07 AM EST
You probably can learn about your gun's potential a little easier with a scope. That was my philosophy for mounting one to the carry handle of my AR-10A2.

My experience, however, is that a carry handle mount is less than ideal, since the knurled knob that holds the mounting rail tends to loosen after a few shots. Maybe others do not have this problem, but I've tried several different rails and all are equally plagued by this problem, even if I tighten with a big tool... Anyway, I usually retighten or check tightening after several rounds. Also, some silicon gasket sealer between the rail and the handle seems to improve the re-zeroing, but not the loosening.

Heck, I plan to get a 10(T) upper, anyway. The 10A2 upper will go back to it's original, sleek, open-sighted state.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 12:33:43 PM EST
Put one finger over the scope and the other over the bipod and see what a good looking rifle you have. If you are looking for a dead accurate sniper rifle then buy one of those. If you want an all around lifelong rifle than buy a good quality AR or FAL
Cant afford a flame suit but I got plenty of asbestos. oh well, just my opinion

Link Posted: 4/30/2001 12:47:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 12:48:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 4:31:12 PM EST
Well, like I said it makes a great spotting scope.  And honestly, that will (sadly) be its primary use.  I will have it set for that one 300/600 range, and then leave it there and use it as a spotter for any and all ranges using my irons.

Etched mil-dots, side parallax adjust (basically my built-in range finder [:P]), 60x max. magnification...not quite as much eye relief as my old 3-9x Leupold (but hey what scope does), this wasn't a bad deal for $350.

As far as mounting goes, I don't LOVE the mount I'm using now, considering I wish the scope eyepiece was just about an inch or two farther away so I could get a better picture with my irons (and probably a good reason why I'm not shooting great scores with them, either).  But, it's just about the longest mount I could find, cheaply at that, that would not cover forego the use of the ironsights.  If anyone can find a better, in budget rail mount out there, please tell me and I'll definately consider it.
Luckily, this mount is very stable...

Link Posted: 4/30/2001 5:34:14 PM EST
Scope? Well depends on how old you are and what you want to do with the rifle. If you can no longer identify the person with long hair walking towards you a half a block away as male or female, yeah, you probably need a scope. Or if you want to "reach out and touch something" you need a scope. A nice compromise between iron sights and a "jewbroni special" is an ACOG TA01 - small, light, really nice unit, albeit pricey.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 5:28:29 AM EST
For God's sake don't put a scope on it this big:




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That's a nice RIFLE you have mounted to your SCOPE!
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 5:57:34 AM EST
I have a simmons 2-8x40 scope on mine.  The 2x power works great on shooting beavers at the creek at close range.  Crank it up to 6 or 8 power for coyotes.  I think it was around $70.

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