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Posted: 10/25/2004 10:16:25 AM EST


I am thinking of sending my barrel off (24" lothar walther) to have it lightened under the guards, shortened to 20" and maybe threaded for a vortex style FH.

What do you guys think?

I really like the rifle.... but I am putting together a Remington 700 for long precision shots. The AR10TLW is just too damn heavy. It shoots sub-moa most of the time with FGMM right now.... I have done a few ragged hole 5 shot groups even, but then the next group may open up to 1"@100.


I dont think I will lose anything by cutting it down to 20", threading an installing a FH. I mean, from an accuracy perspective. Sure, I will lose a little velocity, but this is really going to be an 800YD max gun anyway, for me.

What about having it turned down under the guards? Think that might affect the accuracy of the barrel? I'd hat to do that.... but sure would field this rifle a lot more if I could shave a few pounds.

Am I missing anything?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:19:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 10:19:59 AM EST by _Ugly_]
No!!

The Lothar Walther barrel is a functional work of art.


Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:24:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:25:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By raf:
How about buying and installing another, lighter barrel? Then you still have the original if you want to change back, and you know it's accurate the way it is now. After mods, will it still be as accurate?
You are contemplating spending money to alter the original barrel, no? Put that money towards a lighter one. YMMV.


+1
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:29:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Planerench:

Originally Posted By raf:
How about buying and installing another, lighter barrel? Then you still have the original if you want to change back, and you know it's accurate the way it is now. After mods, will it still be as accurate?
You are contemplating spending money to alter the original barrel, no? Put that money towards a lighter one. YMMV.


+1




+2
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:33:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By JarheadChiro:

Originally Posted By Planerench:

Originally Posted By raf:
How about buying and installing another, lighter barrel? Then you still have the original if you want to change back, and you know it's accurate the way it is now. After mods, will it still be as accurate?
You are contemplating spending money to alter the original barrel, no? Put that money towards a lighter one. YMMV.


+1




+2


+3
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:40:36 AM EST
I have one of these. If you want something different, why don't you buy yourself a different upper? Have it configured they way you want it. If this one shoots fine, why mess with it. Let me speak Texan to Texan here, "Son, if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

John
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:45:36 AM EST
Well, it kinda is broke... its too big for what I want... but I really like how it shoots. Buying a new barrel, might not be as good, and costs a LOT more than cutting this one down.

So.... shortening it 4" and recrowning shouldnt have a negative effect on accuracy..... but then, I dont think taking off 4" will make that much difference in weight.... as much as getting it lighter under the guards. A complete reprofile, cut, thread, and sandblast is substantially cheaper than a new barrel.... and a WHOLE lot less expensive than a new upper.... with unknown accuracy potential, no?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:51:57 AM EST
Sub-MOA groups?

I wouldn't screw with it.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:52:16 AM EST
For a second I thought you asked if you should mod your A10.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:54:18 AM EST
New barrel or new upper is what I would do. How about selling the barrel you have now and buying a new one?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:59:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 11:01:31 AM EST by Steve6]
I shortened my 10T barrel to 20" and like the shorter length a lot better. The 4" of barrel dosen't seem like much and doesn't weigh much, but that extra length and weight coming off the end seems to make the rifle handle a lot better.

In addition, the accuracy of my rifle improved after shortening the barrel (haven't shot it at longer ranges but the groups tightened up at 100 yds).

I'd still like the rifle to be lighter. I'd like to put a carbon barrel on it once things get up and running at carbon barrels. I'm also considering cryo traetment for the barrel. I am told that cryo will reduce or eliminate the POI shift as the barrel heats up. I've also been told that cryo is marketing hype and doesn't do squat.

I've also considered replacint the barrel with a Krieger or Rock barrel but my money has other priorities right now.

For now, I'll live with approximately 1 MOA groups which open up to 1.5 MOA as the barrel heats until I make up my mind.

Edited to add, my rifle had the same grip pictured on yours until I swiched to the Sierra Precision SPR grip. I like the SPR grip a lot better. YMMV.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:07:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:09:52 AM EST
Yeah, I know what you mean about the barrel heating up. My first 5 shot group is ALWAYS sub MOA.... last weekend I put all 5 in the same jagged hole. Then every group after that opens up. I dont feel like cleaning it... letting it cool, putting a fouler shot down the tube, then repeating to see if it's me or the barrel. :-) Plus I havent loaded my own ammo for it.... which might find better results.

As to the grip, cant use the Sierra, its not ambi friendly, and I am a lefty. If I get this rifle shorter/lighter, I will be putting a hogue on it... I love those things.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:10:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By mojo:
FAL. Did you talk to TxLewis yet? IIRC, he shortened his AR 10T also, and happy with it.



I didnt realize that. I'll IM him.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:22:47 AM EST
I'd say get a new upper (or a used one off Ebay). Get a carbine upper.

If you do opt to shorten the barrel, maybe get some guy to slug the barrel for you, and put the cut at the most constricted location. Any time you take away metal outside, you increase the daimeter inside, so I'd vote against turning down the barrel.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:28:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By another_shooter:
I'd say get a new upper (or a used one off Ebay). Get a carbine upper.

If you do opt to shorten the barrel, maybe get some guy to slug the barrel for you, and put the cut at the most constricted location. Any time you take away metal outside, you increase the daimeter inside, so I'd vote against turning down the barrel.



WTF?
how does cutting and recrowning increase the diameter inside?

This makes no sense.

I did not cut mine, I traded for a 10t carbine upper, which I LOVE.

Cutting 4 inches should be doable. I thought you were wanting to cut it shorter.

I am with you Falarak, I would cut that barrel, recrown, and thread for flash hider/suppressor.

Making it something you like to shoot is better than have a tack-driver that is a safe queen.

TXL
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:31:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 11:33:09 AM EST by SHIVAN]
Sure, have George Gardner do it....

I believe Jeff Hicks is also doing it.

They are both currently working on AR-10's and George has quite a bit of experience with them.

However, I would also not fight the option of buying a new, shorter, lighter barrel and keeping the 24" for a rainy day and new upper down the road.....
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:37:42 AM EST
Thanks guys.

I DONT want a carbine length.... I want no shorter than 20", but as light as possible while still maintaining accuracy. Getting a new barrel/upper is out of the question.... I dont want to sink that much money into this thing.... its already the most expensive rifle I have! I was just wanting to make it a little more "travel friendly" so I will shoot it more. So now, I am just leaning toward cutting it down to 20" and recrown. Shouldn't affect the gas system or anything like that should it?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:42:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Thanks guys.

I DONT want a carbine length.... I want no shorter than 20", but as light as possible while still maintaining accuracy. Getting a new barrel/upper is out of the question.... I dont want to sink that much money into this thing.... its already the most expensive rifle I have! I was just wanting to make it a little more "travel friendly" so I will shoot it more. So now, I am just leaning toward cutting it down to 20" and recrown. Shouldn't affect the gas system or anything like that should it?



The gas port is in the same spot as the 20" rifle. However, you may want to ask tech support if the diameter of the hole is the same.......that I am not sure of.

Again, have it done by a top precision rifle guy....
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 11:42:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By 338winmag:
I have one of these. If you want something different, why don't you buy yourself a different upper? Have it configured they way you want it. If this one shoots fine, why mess with it. Let me speak Texan to Texan here, "Son, if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

John



+1
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 12:21:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 12:22:36 PM EST by Jeep29]
Its your gun. Do what makes you happy.

Just curious, but what exactly is your AR10 too heavy for?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 12:25:21 PM EST
Those bad boys are too nice to butcher up. Leave it.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 12:33:06 PM EST
get another one
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 12:34:53 PM EST
Be a man and cut it off.. It will walk a bit more if you deside to turn it down under the forearm. If it gets threaded for FS / Break Have some one that knows about barrel harmonics do the work. The gas port might need to be opened up sightly to get it to time right.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 12:42:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 12:43:43 PM EST by 82ndAbn]
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 12:46:44 PM EST
I'd consider a new upper more suitable to your particular needs. However... the AR10T
is a heavy mother. But I knew that when I decided to purchase one.



Link Posted: 10/25/2004 12:57:14 PM EST
ArmaLite has confirmed that the gas port is the proper size for a 20" barrel.

Seth
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:00:13 PM EST
You say it's too expensive to get another upper instead of the one you have. If ever you do seriously consider doing this, I would be interested in buying your existing upper for a fair price. Feel free to contact me if you want to sell it to finance an upper more to your liking.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:13:51 PM EST
I had Steve at ADCO lighten mine. Cut to 22", turn front to .750", turn rear to .930", and flute rear area. What a difference! It handles like a new rifle. I have not yet shot it though. Cost me $177.00. It wears a Leupold MR/T. My idea of an all pourpose rifle.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:18:41 PM EST
I've spent weeks trying all different kinds of powders, bullets, and grain ranges and I still can't get sub moa with my 10T.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:51:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 3:54:13 PM EST by garr]
Please don't touch that barrel, Just get yourself a lightweight upper to play with when you do not want to lug all that weight around.
PS: The cost of having that barrel Cut/Turned down/Threaded has to be close to the price of a used lightweight upper assembly, Check the Equipment Exchange, AR10 Uppers turn up for sale often !
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:01:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By garr:
Please don't touch that barrel, Just get yourself a lightweight upper to play with when you do not want to lug all that weight around.
PS: The cost of having that barrel Cut/Turned down/Threaded has to be close to the price of a used lightweight upper assembly, Check the Equipment Exchange, AR10 Uppers turn up for sale often !



The cost of an upper is a LOT more. Uppers run $500+ Barrel work is a little over $160. But the feedback is good... I will mull it over for a while based on what I am hearing. Good stuff.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:02:59 PM EST
Do it! I am planning on doing something similar to one next year.

First thing I thought when I saw the SPR was how cool it would be to make one from an AR-10(T).
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:33:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:11:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 5:22:59 PM EST by Tate]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
with unknown accuracy potential



Shortening and reprofiling this barrel will give you the above result too in my not so informed opinion. ymmv

I'd sell the upper and put funds towards an upper configed like you wish. again, ymmv


edit - oops - didn't read the whole thread (another upper out of the question)
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:25:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By another_shooter:
I'd say get a new upper (or a used one off Ebay). Get a carbine upper.

If you do opt to shorten the barrel, maybe get some guy to slug the barrel for you, and put the cut at the most constricted location. Any time you take away metal outside, you increase the daimeter inside, so I'd vote against turning down the barrel.



WTF?
how does cutting and recrowning increase the diameter inside?

This makes no sense.

I did not cut mine, I traded for a 10t carbine upper, which I LOVE.

Cutting 4 inches should be doable. I thought you were wanting to cut it shorter.

I am with you Falarak, I would cut that barrel, recrown, and thread for flash hider/suppressor.

Making it something you like to shoot is better than have a tack-driver that is a safe queen.

TXL



TxLewis - he's talking about the *turning* - not the shortening.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:19:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By garr:
Please don't touch that barrel, Just get yourself a lightweight upper to play with when you do not want to lug all that weight around.
PS: The cost of having that barrel Cut/Turned down/Threaded has to be close to the price of a used lightweight upper assembly, Check the Equipment Exchange, AR10 Uppers turn up for sale often !



The cost of an upper is a LOT more. Uppers run $500+ Barrel work is a little over $160. But the feedback is good... I will mull it over for a while based on what I am hearing. Good stuff.



$160 is a very very good price for what you are looking to do. Does that include disassembly of the upper? Shipping & Insurance?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:09:07 AM EST
Good thread...can it be bumped to the AR-10 area?

I thought hard about the bore opening up as the outside was relieved. But the best I could find out is; that all button rifled tubes are turned AFTER drilling & rifling. So, even the 10T Carbine barrel was turned down from a bigger rifled tube. Just look at the front of a n AR10T barrel; the .800 diam. was turned down. It will probebly be two weeks before I can shoot it (can only shoot registered assault rifles in approved places here).

The rifle is usable now though. I could travel with it, and fight with it (in theory only!). Before, it was only a bench or prone rifle. To shoot off-hand, you had to use a target shooters stance; elbow on hip, hand under magazine. This is useless in SHTF. Now I can point and shoot. Shoot it like a hunting rifle. I just hope the 1 MOA holds!
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:21:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By DougH9:
Good thread...can it be bumped to the AR-10 area?



I posted it there first. After a few days.... only 1 reply. Noone reads that stuff like they do General Discussion. When I posted the exact same post here, I have a TON of replies within hours.....



I thought hard about the bore opening up as the outside was relieved. But the best I could find out is; that all button rifled tubes are turned AFTER drilling & rifling. So, even the 10T Carbine barrel was turned down from a bigger rifled tube. Just look at the front of a n AR10T barrel; the .800 diam. was turned down. It will probebly be two weeks before I can shoot it (can only shoot registered assault rifles in approved places here).

The rifle is usable now though. I could travel with it, and fight with it (in theory only!). Before, it was only a bench or prone rifle. To shoot off-hand, you had to use a target shooters stance; elbow on hip, hand under magazine. This is useless in SHTF. Now I can point and shoot. Shoot it like a hunting rifle. I just hope the 1 MOA holds!



I EAGERLY await your results!
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:37:26 PM EST
As a designated gunsmith. I have turned down numinous barrels. Machining the od of the barrel will not change the id of the bore if done properly. If anything it will shrink the id if the material is removed too fast. What I would worry about more is the barrel warping when the material is removed. Any smith has a barrel straighter in his shop so this should be a mute point.
If you do have the muzzle threaded and a Flash Suppressor or Break installed. Have them run the number for proper cutback/length for the added barrel length. Adding things to the end of the barrel will jack with the harmonics and increase your group size.
Also if available have an 11deg crown cut. Less of a chance of bunging up it up as compared to an stepped crown.
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