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Posted: 12/23/2008 11:52:43 AM EDT
I have a CD for about $7K that is maturing soon and I'm looking around at places to invest it. The interest rates on CDs, savings and most bonds are less than the expected inflation rate. The stock market doesn't look good either. I don't expect to need this money for at least 10 years.

I'm thinking about purchasing gold bullion or coins and have been doing a bit of research. It looks like there are several on-line vendors that sell gold and will mail it to you.

What happens when I want to sell it though? How easy is it to sell gold? What are the associated expenses?

Link Posted: 12/23/2008 1:04:55 PM EDT
Just roll the CD over.

With gold youll end up buying high and selling low. Everything is kind of stabilizing right now in the world of PM. Id seriously wait til next year to see what is going on. Atleast the CD is guaranteed return. It may not be much, but something is better than nothing.
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 1:09:17 PM EDT
Silver is down right now. Gold, not so much. If you look around you can get 3 - 4% return on saving accounts online.
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 2:12:38 PM EDT
Brian-

With all due respect, we are fighting a period of deflation-not inflation. Placing your money in a FDIC backed CD is not a bad option. With said CD you do not have principal risk. Purchasing gold=principal risk.

Link Posted: 12/23/2008 8:09:42 PM EDT
Metals can be volatile.

Right now, silver is a better bargain than gold.

Are you looking for physical, or stocks?

If you're looking ten years out, it may not be a bad investment right now.

Do not rely on metals - or any one thing - alone.
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 8:24:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2008 8:25:24 PM EDT by AROptics]
Dollars are breeding like lemmings. Soon enough their value is headed for a cliff.

Growth in money supply chart from the Fed.

Link Posted: 12/23/2008 8:39:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
With gold youll end up buying high and selling low.
This. Gold was under $400/oz in 1999; today's London price is $843.50/oz. Now would be the time to sell gold, but not to buy it.
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 9:12:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2008 3:24:38 AM EDT
OK - thanks guys. I'll hold off and see what happens in the next year or so.

I've already got a very diverse stock portfolio and am looking to diversify a bit.
Link Posted: 12/24/2008 3:47:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2008 4:52:40 AM EDT by rike]
Originally Posted By DigDug:
Silver is down right now. Gold, not so much. If you look around you can get 3 - 4% return on saving accounts online.


Bullshit. Tell one 3-4% savings account right now.

There isn't a one.

ETA: I was venting my frustation.



ING down to 2.75 they will have to go down soon, 3.25 for 12 month CDs with our declining currency.
Link Posted: 12/24/2008 5:27:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2008 5:39:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rike:
Originally Posted By DigDug:
Silver is down right now. Gold, not so much. If you look around you can get 3 - 4% return on saving accounts online.


Bullshit. Tell one 3-4% savings account right now.

There isn't a one.

ETA: I was venting my frustation.



ING down to 2.75 they will have to go down soon, 3.25 for 12 month CDs with our declining currency.


CDs are considered savings, yes there is penalty for early withdraw, but its guaranteed. My bank has them at over 3%.

Link Posted: 12/24/2008 6:10:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AROptics:
Dollars are breeding like lemmings. Soon enough their value is headed for a cliff.

Growth in money supply chart from the Fed.



Dollars are also vanishing. The presses are running overtime to try to run against the effects of the diminishing money multiplier. Frozen credit = no multiplier. Deflation is being seen in housing, stocks, comodities, wages. Inflation sucks but at least the normal guy gets to pay off the house and car at fractions of the loan value. With deflation the wages drop and loans must be repaid with dollars that are much harder to come by.

Forget government charts, real inflation/deflation can only be judged by the prices you pay for food, clothing, shelter and transportation. Through this cycle you are going to see a lot of people leave the house every day and bring home much less pay.

Link Posted: 12/24/2008 7:22:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2008 7:24:14 AM EDT by DigDug]
Originally Posted By rike:
Originally Posted By DigDug:
Silver is down right now. Gold, not so much. If you look around you can get 3 - 4% return on saving accounts online.


Bullshit. Tell one 3-4% savings account right now.

There isn't a one.

ETA: I was venting my frustation.



ING down to 2.75 they will have to go down soon, 3.25 for 12 month CDs with our declining currency.


3.01%

https://us.etrade.com/e/t/welcome/completesavings

Link Posted: 12/24/2008 7:48:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2008 7:50:19 PM EDT by RedWoods]
I would hold on to your money in these wild economic times. Wait for gold and silver to take a good sized price decline and you will see many panic sellers. Right after a good sized price drop stop by your local coin dealers and tell them you want to buy $_k worth of gold if they get a deal and want a fast turnover deal,leave contact info. Many times they get deals that push their liquidity and will give you a deal for a fast buck.

Right after a gold/ silver dip put an ad in a shopper type paper you are buying gold coins and offer a slightly lowball price on buying silver dollars. Have a catchy title like "$7.50 for $1 ?" When PM prices retreat or there are lots of lay offs this method works more than it doesn't. Do this even if you only want to buy gold,it brings in the sellers and a few silver dollars are a good thing to have anyway.

Never give out your home phone number, use a cell number. Never meet sellers at your house. Check the buy prices of the dealers each day before you buy because prices move a lot some days. Never pay retail at the market highs. Always buy right or don't buy!

Red
Link Posted: 12/26/2008 8:03:19 PM EDT
I would put 1/2 in gold, keep the other 1/2 in cash. For the next year or two forget about trying to make money - be more concerned with keeping your money local - as all the money sent to wall street seems to never return to main street.
Right now, prices are deflating due to people not spending. On the other hand, you have the FED printing presses running 24/7/365 - the dollar may not do so well in the long run.
Gold and oil used to parrallel each other.......not so now. Oil down gold up - why, people turn to gold as a place of safety when other investments fail.
I have friends who have lost 100K+ in the stock market companies that were too big to fail......and some of the same people who said what is happening now are saying the dow will go to 4500.
Link Posted: 12/28/2008 3:12:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AROptics:
Dollars are breeding like lemmings. Soon enough their value is headed for a cliff.

Growth in money supply chart from the Fed.



+1 the way I'm looking at the current situation. The question I keep asking myself is what happens when the value of the dollar goes into the toilet. There is not a country that has gone through the kind of massive debt as we have without having massive inflation. Now I'll admit, I'm anything but an expert, but people I talk to who think they know whats going on think we can't falter because then every other country will go down the proverbial toilet too. I don't buy that argument. Maybe I'm just too dumb to understand it all. It does give me a headache to keep worrying about this but I'm sure that will be the least of my wories when the big crash happens. I got a lot of money tied up in PM stocks as well industrial metal & material stocks with well established Companies, ABX & GFI, I also bought some SWHC, that was my biggest mistake of this past year! Best of luck to you all in the new year!
Link Posted: 12/28/2008 4:59:06 PM EDT
as someone who buys PMs.... only go PHYSICAL so you can have it in your possession.... Gold and Silver are REAL money not this FIAT Paper Crap.

Only buy with money you dont need for anything else... LONG TERM SAVINGS... its protection

Enough said here.....

Trust me with whats coming economically / socially you want some Gold and Silver and Cash on Hand.... Also investing in Lead these days..... It works out for me
Link Posted: 12/28/2008 6:11:05 PM EDT
also, buying Gold and Silver for SHTF scenario / or long term investment protection of your hard earned fake money the Govt prints is a GREAT thing.... This economic thing has barely begun, its going to get NASTY

The Next Bubbles to burst will be.... we are in the beginning stages of the ball game folks, and it will go into extra innings

Commercial Real Estate
Bonds
US Dollar


Gold will be around $2500 within 5 -10 years (already is IF adjusted to inflation from 1980s) and silver should perform nicely as Gold rises to where it should be
Link Posted: 1/19/2009 7:37:06 AM EDT
the best precious metal is ammo, why buy gold if the spot is 800 you have to pay 850 to 900 for it and when you sell it you get 700 to 725 for it,, little guy always gets screwed, ill put my little extra cash in items i can eat, shoot or trade
Link Posted: 1/19/2009 12:03:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2009 12:14:12 PM EDT by raven]
Originally Posted By hossack:
Brian-

With all due respect, we are fighting a period of deflation-not inflation. Placing your money in a FDIC backed CD is not a bad option. With said CD you do not have principal risk. Purchasing gold=principal risk.



I agree half way.

If you buy gold, yes, you are risking that principal. But at the moment, gold is in an upswing to about the $840 point where it'll face resistance and be tested. You can buy a derivative, GLD that tracks the price of gold. A share of GLD is 10% of the price of gold so a spot price of gold at $860 = a share of GLD trading for $86.

The transaction costs of holding this stock is a lot lower than buying bullion gold, and you can set a stop order on your position to prevent you from losing your principal.

Full disclosure, this is what I am doing. Once GLD clears 83.69 (a 1% move) I am setting a stop to make sure I can't lose my principal but will get unrealized gains if the price of gold rises. The idea of the government spending money it doesn't have when we are already broke and eyeball deep in debt with unfunded liabilities and promises of more after we have de-industrialized our nation and will soon weigh it down with inefficient energy sources? How can we do this? I'm putting my money in gold.

In the meantime, I have a lot of cash in a Dollar Savings Direct at 3.92% APR compounded daily. That's money for my taxes (I dont have them withheld so I have to pony up on April 15th).
Link Posted: 1/20/2009 8:50:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/21/2009 5:23:19 PM EDT


Bullshit. Tell one 3-4% savings account right now.

There isn't a one.


I'm personally putting cash into silver and gold, physical, right now.

But, E-Trade's savings account is at 3.01% as of 20 seconds ago.
Link Posted: 1/21/2009 6:29:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By raven:

If you buy gold, yes, you are risking that principal. But at the moment, gold is in an upswing to about the $840 point where it'll face resistance and be tested. You can buy a derivative, GLD that tracks the price of gold. A share of GLD is 10% of the price of gold so a spot price of gold at $860 = a share of GLD trading for $86.

The transaction costs of holding this stock is a lot lower than buying bullion gold, and you can set a stop order on your position to prevent you from losing your principal.

Full disclosure, this is what I am doing. Once GLD clears 83.69 (a 1% move) I am setting a stop to make sure I can't lose my principal but will get unrealized gains if the price of gold rises. The idea of the government spending money it doesn't have when we are already broke and eyeball deep in debt with unfunded liabilities and promises of more after we have de-industrialized our nation and will soon weigh it down with inefficient energy sources? How can we do this? I'm putting my money in gold.

In the meantime, I have a lot of cash in a Dollar Savings Direct at 3.92% APR compounded daily. That's money for my taxes (I dont have them withheld so I have to pony up on April 15th).

I trade in and out of GLD from time to time.


One thing that bothers me is the fact that the US gold market opens a few hours before Wall Street. Is that somehow reconciled in the bid/ask price ?




No, I think it's just tied to what the spot is at at 9:30 EST
Link Posted: 1/23/2009 10:28:39 PM EDT
Gold is not an investment.

It is one thing to buy gold as a small part of your portfolio as a hedge against inflation. But if you "invest" in gold, you'll lose your ass. Look at the historic price info... it's a roller coaster, all over the place.

If you are sure that the US economy is going to tank and that TEOTWAWKI is coming, then again, some gold is a good idea... but land, ammo, food, tools, etc. is better.
Link Posted: 2/5/2009 6:58:04 PM EDT
Take a look at a 20 year gold chart... it'll change your mind about buying gold as an investment right now.
Link Posted: 2/11/2009 3:01:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David14:
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
With gold youll end up buying high and selling low.
This. Gold was under $400/oz in 1999; today's London price is $843.50/oz. Now would be the time to sell gold, but not to buy it.



You have missed a $100 dollar move if you sold. Gold and Silver may go much higher. I have a portion in them, but I've bought them with the understanding that I will likely lose 50% if I don't need them. It's likely that I will more than make up for that loss with my stocks.

Balance people. Not all your eggs in one golden basket.
Link Posted: 2/14/2009 5:26:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2009 5:30:50 AM EDT by Pacu44]
Originally Posted By BrianC:
I have a CD for about $7K that is maturing soon and I'm looking around at places to invest it. The interest rates on CDs, savings and most bonds are less than the expected inflation rate. The stock market doesn't look good either. I don't expect to need this money for at least 10 years.

I'm thinking about purchasing gold bullion or coins and have been doing a bit of research. It looks like there are several on-line vendors that sell gold and will mail it to you.

What happens when I want to sell it though? How easy is it to sell gold? What are the associated expenses?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HpmrWRN6Ns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HpmrWRN6Ns



If you are thinking of buying gold, do it... Watch video above, someone is going to follow this strategy and there is nothing the liberals could do about it but blame gun owners and conservatives!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r93inhhrclo



Link Posted: 2/21/2009 12:38:25 PM EDT
Bald-Faced LIES!
And the Miserable Maggots Who Push Them
On an Unsuspecting Public

[A-Letter Editor Matthew Collins was temporarily ousted by Investment Director Eric Roseman for this Saturday's e-letter...]
I'm sitting here in my office...watching CNBC...and I've had it up to here.
What a mess... I mean, what an incredible stinking mess!
We've got rock-bottom interest rates...trillions in fresh government IOUs.Jobs are being shed. Homes are being lost. Dreams are being redefined DOWNWARD.
And yet - these CNBC bozos are bashing gold. They're attacking investors' patriotism to boot: "If you're long gold, you're short America."
It makes me want to smash my TV with a baseball bat. Really.
Because despite whatever it is that these mouth-breathing talking heads tell you, gold is actually the MOST patriotic investment anyone can make. It's a vote for a stable future. A landscape unmarred by reckless bubbles, runaway spending and crippling "busts."
It's a vote for sound money that retains its value from generation to generation - so your kids won't ever have to beg for a handout or strain to buy a home.
It's the spark that lights the flame of true prosperity - where good business and good ideas are rewarded by the market - not penalized by red tape and Washington "favoritism."
As I write this note, gold is sitting right around $1,000 an ounce... It's outperforming the DOW by 28.53%!
If you think it's expensive now, you may be right. I'm not saying we won't see a pullback...but it's equally possible that we are entering a "mania phase."
That's when the general public piles in - pushes it to US$1,500 an ounce (maybe higher) and those who thought it was expensive at US$1,000 call themselves all kinds of horrible names - and smack themselves in the forehead.
I've been there before...and it's not pretty.

But you know what's even worse than being forced to "buy high" at $1,500? Getting shut out completely.
That's a realistic problem for anyone who doesn't hold physical gold today. There's already a net supply deficit, and demand is picking up like a freight train running downhill.
Bottom line. Some day soon, you will get shut out because you can't afford it - or it's just
plain "sold out."
Regards,
Eric Roseman
Link Posted: 2/21/2009 3:44:06 PM EDT
I would like to have my own gold holdings, but damn I'm not going to buy at an all time high.
Link Posted: 2/21/2009 3:57:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By texasaggie:
I would like to have my own gold holdings, but damn I'm not going to buy at an all time high.


Since gold is a limited resource won't it always increase in demand and decrease in supply...(looking at say 10 year intervals)?
Link Posted: 2/22/2009 10:25:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hoosier122:
Originally Posted By texasaggie:
I would like to have my own gold holdings, but damn I'm not going to buy at an all time high.


Since gold is a limited resource won't it always increase in demand and decrease in supply...(looking at say 10 year intervals)?


No. Supply can come in from other sources and take down gold. Gold was $800/oz in the early 80's and it came down. But right now with our psychotic government, few wants to put their money in bonds or business. Gold's pretty much the only game in town.

Link Posted: 2/22/2009 11:13:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By hoosier122:
Originally Posted By texasaggie:
I would like to have my own gold holdings, but damn I'm not going to buy at an all time high.


Since gold is a limited resource won't it always increase in demand and decrease in supply...(looking at say 10 year intervals)?


No. Supply can come in from other sources and take down gold. Gold was $800/oz in the early 80's and it came down. But right now with our psychotic government, few wants to put their money in bonds or business. Gold's pretty much the only game in town.



Did the price come down because of lack of demand or an increase of supply?
Link Posted: 2/24/2009 10:29:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hoosier122:
Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By hoosier122:
Originally Posted By texasaggie:
I would like to have my own gold holdings, but damn I'm not going to buy at an all time high.


Since gold is a limited resource won't it always increase in demand and decrease in supply...(looking at say 10 year intervals)?


No. Supply can come in from other sources and take down gold. Gold was $800/oz in the early 80's and it came down. But right now with our psychotic government, few wants to put their money in bonds or business. Gold's pretty much the only game in town.



Did the price come down because of lack of demand or an increase of supply?


If the price remains high it becomes worthwhile to extract gold from places not viable at lower prices.

Substitutes will also be found for industrial gold uses.

Link Posted: 2/26/2009 6:29:29 PM EDT
If gold pulls back to $800 or so, that would be a good point to buy.
Link Posted: 2/27/2009 5:07:28 PM EDT
THINK ABOUT IT...........its a want not a need......imo its next bubble to burst w/kumbia obama in office, or maybe TIPS but that'd really screw things up.really,TECH/bio-tech bubble/ dotcom bubble/RE bubble/Comomodity bubble/GAS bubble/financial(BKX) bub,...........not nessessarly in that order last decade..its a gamble!
Link Posted: 3/3/2009 6:54:50 PM EDT
If you buy gold, you will have to hold it for at least 20 years to make serious money on it. By then, Obama's policies will hopefully be history.

Gold is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it. If people can't afford it, the value goes down (until a crisis point is reached). Only once the crisis point is reach will it have a huge value. Of course, then it would be dangerous to even let people know you own it in large quantities.

In any third world nation, guns and ammo out-value gold. If you have tons of guns and ammo, then you are OK.
Link Posted: 3/3/2009 7:37:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2009 7:57:41 PM EDT by AROptics]
Nah.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 4:40:14 AM EDT
Whether or not you should buy it depends upon what you think will happen; hyperinflation, or deflation?

The current price of gold is a prediction that many people are expecting an inflationary environment once we get through this current (probably very brief) deflationary situation. This makes sense what with all the government spending and the actions of the Federal Reserve.

Regarding the 1980 price spike. That spike was a temporary panic which lasted only a few days during January of that year in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the seizure of the U.S. embassy in Tehran the previous November. The entire "bull market" for gold lasted well less than one year; from about Nov. '79 thru about the summer 0f '80. The current bull market in precious metals has been running now since about the end of '02 (IIRC). And it probably has another six or seven years to run.

The inflation adjusted price for gold at the peak in 1980 would equal somewhere around $2,050 today.
A lot of people are betting that gold can (and will) go MUCH higher. For at least the past seven years, they have been right. I don't know why so many people insist that they are wrong. Clearly someone is badly informed.
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 11:04:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2009 11:05:54 AM EDT by Patmos]
Originally Posted By jnojr:
Gold is not an investment.

+1


Originally Posted By jnojr:It is one thing to buy gold as a small part of your portfolio as a hedge against inflation. But if you "invest" in gold, you'll lose your ass.




All Gold bullion should be thought of as a barter/bribe item. Its only a "investment" in that one can trade for something else, or bribe your way through somewhere, or to keep one's self from getting your throat slit. That's it. I would only buy the smallest denominations of a troy OZ. Easier to trade.
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 10:30:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2009 8:42:41 AM EDT by AROptics]
Link Posted: 3/22/2009 10:41:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2009 11:16:40 PM EDT by MisterB]
Originally Posted By Patmos:
Originally Posted By jnojr:
Gold is not an investment.

+1


Originally Posted By jnojr:It is one thing to buy gold as a small part of your portfolio as a hedge against inflation. But if you "invest" in gold, you'll lose your ass.




All Gold bullion should be thought of as a barter/bribe item. Its only a "investment" in that one can trade for something else, or bribe your way through somewhere, or to keep one's self from getting your throat slit. That's it. I would only buy the smallest denominations of a troy OZ. Easier to trade.



That is what I'm doing. In gold and silver.(and in very small amounts as I can)

I buy small coins and bullion, only .999 though, no scrap. I figure in the event of an economic collapse, or another type of TEOTW situation, I may want to have instant liquid assets, other than ammo and guns.

I understand that food, guns, ammo, water, survival equipment and livestock would all be valuable in a REALLY bad situation, but I'd likely be reluctant to give up any of these items. So I have a few stashes of gold and silver bars/coins. Usually 5grams or less per piece.

Its not an investment, really, its more of an insurance policy.
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 11:43:08 AM EDT
While there is nothing wrong with having a small amount of gold (or other precious metals) in one's portfolio, in general, gold is a bad investment.

Making money on gold requires you to successfully time the market. And since even most of the pros can't time the market very well, there's little reason to think an average joe will do better.

Sure, you may get lucky. It happens all the time. But over longer periods of time, gold is a poor investment, returning something like 2%. If you buy gold now, you'll be committing a classic investment mistake: chasing returns.

The time to make money in gold was a few years ago. Buy it now, and I'd bet there's a better than 50/50 chance you lose money.
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 11:56:40 AM EDT
I forgot to add...

A lot of the hucksters selling gold right now present gold as an "obvious" screaming buy. They make it sound as if you almost can't lose money by buying gold. And they also engage in good, ol' fashioned fear-mongering to get people to pick up the phone.

But remember...no investment is "obvious" or a "no brainer". If such investments existed, we'd all know about 'em, and we'd all be rich. Beware when people make it sound as if making money is too easy or almost guaranteed.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 4:33:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MisterB:
Originally Posted By Patmos:
Originally Posted By jnojr:
Gold is not an investment.

+1


Originally Posted By jnojr:It is one thing to buy gold as a small part of your portfolio as a hedge against inflation. But if you "invest" in gold, you'll lose your ass.




All Gold bullion should be thought of as a barter/bribe item. Its only a "investment" in that one can trade for something else, or bribe your way through somewhere, or to keep one's self from getting your throat slit. That's it. I would only buy the smallest denominations of a troy OZ. Easier to trade.



That is what I'm doing. In gold and silver.(and in very small amounts as I can)

I buy small coins and bullion, only .999 though, no scrap. I figure in the event of an economic collapse, or another type of TEOTW situation, I may want to have instant liquid assets, other than ammo and guns.

I understand that food, guns, ammo, water, survival equipment and livestock would all be valuable in a REALLY bad situation, but I'd likely be reluctant to give up any of these items. So I have a few stashes of gold and silver bars/coins. Usually 5grams or less per piece.

Its not an investment, really, its more of an insurance policy.



Absolutely correct reasoning. Gold is an insurance policy; it's NOT an investment.
Gold is not about MAKING money; it's about guaranteeing that you don't lose EVERYTHING.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:30:06 PM EDT




I think the Silver/Gold deal is a Bubble... Waiting to POP after/if it reaches 1,500/2,000.

The fear mongers on the radio keep pushing it... they all bought in at $300....
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