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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/9/2005 5:45:00 PM EDT
Here's the deal.

I been studying martial arts for a few decades now. In addition to having my own students that I teach I still attend classes with my instructors and belong to a few clubs.

Most of them quit charging me the regular rate long ago as I ended up contributing far more than money in many capacities. Some no longer accept money from me at all.

About six months ago I turned up one of my instructors from long ago and resumed training with him. The club fees are pretty minor and I have no problem paying them at all.

However in the last two months he has begun to heavily depend on me to "run things." Seems every other week he doesn't show and asks me to run the class for him.

Now I don't mind paying the club fees. I don't even mind helping out if he just can't make it. But I do kinda mind paying club fees if he isn't gonna be there (I can work out on my own anyplace, I pay to study with him) and I'm starting to get annoyed at paying a monthly fee to volunteer my time as a regular substitute instructor.

The man is extremely knowledgable and has a great deal to offer me in the form of instruction but sadly he is also one of those 1960s "wandering spirit" kinda people who is prone to just not show up. In fact that is how he ended up studying martial arts in the first place...in the late 50s and 60s he simply "wandered west" and ended up studying with some instructors of particular reknown.

On one hand this can be considered paying my dues and helping "the club" with my contribution but on the other hand it could also get out of hand with me being the designated "substitute instructor" and me paying a monthly fee to essentially volunteer my time in an instructor capacity.

In situations like this I'd normally walk and that would be the end of it and solve itself. But I do want to train with this guy and continue learning from him. Even if he had some high ranking "assistant instructor" quality students I'd remain to simply train with them. But the highest ranked students (while talented in their own right) don't have the capacity to teach in any organized manner so I don't get a whole lot from them.

I'm thinking about just not paying my club fees this month and when asked for them just remind everyone that I didn't "take" any classes this month.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 5:47:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 5:47:38 PM EDT by sgtar15]
Approach him with a proposition. Tell him straight up that in return for helping him out OCCASSIONALLY you get free training. And that both of you can end the agreement at any time for any reason.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:05:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Approach him with a proposition. Tell him straight up that in return for helping him out OCCASSIONALLY you get free training. And that both of you can end the agreement at any time for any reason.

Sgat1r5



Here's the other issue.

I worry about being responsible for this man's income.

If I screw up his classes I screw up his livelihood.

I've got an entirely different teaching style than my instructor.

I'm of the opinion that a martial artists should develop 3 basic skills:

1. The ability to fight

2. The ability to inflict serious injury

3. The ability to sustain injury and keep fighting

And the way I teach reflects that mindset.

And the advanced students love it. They all claim my classes are harder and the most beneficial to them. But students who are looking for that tend to be the exception and not the majority.

But I worry about alienating the casual students who are mostly adults seeking diverse exercise. For the most part they don't enjoy the "boot camp" mentality and excessive physical training. If they were my personal students I'd simply refer them to a more suitable instructor for them.

If these guys start dropping out because of the way I teach I'm gonna feel terrible.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:18:34 PM EDT
Well, IMHO if he asks you to teach in exchange for free dues then you should teach the way he want it done.

A little conversation will go a long way here.

SGat1r5
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:20:03 PM EDT
I think you should draw down on him.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:47:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Approach him with a proposition. Tell him straight up that in return for helping him out OCCASSIONALLY you get free training. And that both of you can end the agreement at any time for any reason.

Sgat1r5



Here's the other issue.

I worry about being responsible for this man's income.

If I screw up his classes I screw up his livelihood.

I've got an entirely different teaching style than my instructor.

I'm of the opinion that a martial artists should develop 3 basic skills:

1. The ability to fight

2. The ability to inflict serious injury

3. The ability to sustain injury and keep fighting

And the way I teach reflects that mindset.

And the advanced students love it. They all claim my classes are harder and the most beneficial to them. But students who are looking for that tend to be the exception and not the majority.

But I worry about alienating the casual students who are mostly adults seeking diverse exercise. For the most part they don't enjoy the "boot camp" mentality and excessive physical training. If they were my personal students I'd simply refer them to a more suitable instructor for them.

If these guys start dropping out because of the way I teach I'm gonna feel terrible.



Know anybody in the NY/NJ area who thinks like you do?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:58:23 PM EDT
Aren't martial arts supposed to be a lot about discipline and respect? And this guy doesn't even show up to his the classes that he teaches?

Anyway. Have a chat, say you don't mind paying fees when you are recieving instruction, and that you don't mind helping out when he's in a pinch, but that you shouldn't have to pay for times when you help him by instructing and don't get a chance to talk to him.

I wouldn't engage in any sort of subterfuge or make subtle statements, man up, talk to him, he sounds like he's oblivious to this sort of thing.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 7:02:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
I can work out on my own anyplace, I pay to study with him



That should say it right there. You're paying him money to train with him. You're not getting what you are paying for.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 7:07:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Aren't martial arts supposed to be a lot about discipline and respect? And this guy doesn't even show up to his the classes that he teaches?

Anyway. Have a chat, say you don't mind paying fees when you are recieving instruction, and that you don't mind helping out when he's in a pinch, but that you shouldn't have to pay for times when you help him by instructing and don't get a chance to talk to him.

I wouldn't engage in any sort of subterfuge or make subtle statements, man up, talk to him, he sounds like he's oblivious to this sort of thing.



That is what I needed to hear. I just wanted to avoid confronting him out of respect. But I don't think it is gonna fix itself.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 7:10:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 7:11:56 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By BoreSighted:


Know anybody in the NY/NJ area who thinks like you do?



They exist but most of them probably aren't in the Yellow Pages.

You have some serious instructors in your area and I imagine the students of guys like Peter Urban will be fairly hard core. My advice is to start visiting schools and watching classes.

Make it plain the kind of instruction you are seeking and most sincere teachers will provide you with a referral. I do it all the time when a student is seeking the kind of instruction I really don't offer.
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