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Posted: 6/16/2009 4:40:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 4:41:11 PM EST by marksman121]
When I go to the range I always find these weird magnum spent casings that have necks .223(looked like) necks. But the case looked like a .300 mag. I heard that all the powder burns faster and makes the round more consistent.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:42:25 PM EST
Because you need the latest "magnum" to kill a deer from 75 yards away.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:45:21 PM EST
Gimmick.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:46:13 PM EST
The point is to get people to buy the newest greatest rifle.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:46:59 PM EST
Well, I'm assuming you dont hunt much.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:47:06 PM EST
Even bullets want wider girth?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:48:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 4:49:58 PM EST by marksman121]
Originally Posted By ampn:
Because you need the latest "magnum" to kill a deer from 75 yards away.


lol

I see fudds firing their .338 mags at 50 yards and the target looks like they were patterning #4 buckshot at 50 yards. They also have the LARGEST cheap-o Walmart scopes you can find on them.

Originally Posted By indysteve:
Well, I'm assuming you dont hunt much.


What will the 'Short Action' kill that a "regular" load won't?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:50:28 PM EST
Long action oomph in a short action package.


Much the same as my philosophy
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:51:48 PM EST
Ok, So now a hot. 33 is also a short mag?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:54:01 PM EST
The same BS happens in the target shooting community. The 6.5 Creedmoor comes to mind.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:55:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By OKZJ:
Long action oomph in a short action package.


Much the same as my philosophy


lulz

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:02:40 AM EST
The point is to make $$$.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:07:21 AM EST
This is an old chart but some of the short mags can get up and boogie.

WSM and WSSM ballistic Comparison Chart

Caliber Bullet Weight Overall Cartridge Length Muzzle Velocity Trajectory at 300 yds(100yds zero) Muzzle Energy(Ft. Lbs.)
Ballistics Comparison for 270
270 WSM 130 grains 2.860" 3,275 fps -9.02 3,096
270 Win. 130 grains 3.340" 3,050 fps -10.89 2,685
270 Wby. Mag. 130 grains 3.295" 3,200 fps -9.57 2,955
Ballistics Comparison for 7MM
7mm WSM 140 grains 2.860" 3,225 fps -9.33 3,233
7mm Rem. Mag. 140 grains 3.290" 3,100 fps -10.16 2,987
Ballistics Comparison for 300
300 WSM 180 grains 2.860" 2,970 fps -11.8 3,526
300 Win. Mag. 180 grains 3.340" 2,960 fps -11.8 3,503
300 H&H 180 grains 3.600" 2,880 fps -13.2 3,316
Ballistics Comparison for 223
223 WSSM 55 grains 2.36" 3,850 fps -4.4 1,810
223 Rem. 55 grains 2.26" 3,240 fps -10.3 1,282
22-250 Rem. 55 grains 2.35" 3,680 fps -7.3 1,654
Ballistics Comparison for 243
243 WSSM 55 grains 2.36" 4,060 fps -3.9 2,013
243 WSSM 95 grains 2.36" 3,250 fps -5.7 2,258
243 Win. 55 grains 2.71" 3,910 fps -6 1,867
243 Win. 95 grains 2.71" 3,100 fps -10.3 2,021
Ballistics Comparison for 25
25 WSSM 85 grains 2.36" 3470 fps -8.2 2,273
25 WSSM 115 grains 2.36" 3060 fps -10.6 2,392
25 WSSM 120 grains 2.36" 2990 fps -12.2 2,383
25-06 Rem. 85 grains 3.250" 3470 fps -8.2 2,273
25-06 Rem. 115 grains 3.250" 3060 fps -10.6 2,392
25-06 Rem. 120 grains 3.250" 2990 fps -12.2 2,383
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:07:39 AM EST
Because Fudds are wimps and don't want to hump a 9 pound rifle. The short magnums are a trifle lighter.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:26:51 AM EST
Well, for one thing you can get 25-06 performance out of an AR-15.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:39:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Because Fudds are wimps and don't want to hump a 9 pound rifle. The short magnums are a trifle lighter.


Most hunting rifles are much lighter than 9lb - but yeah - why the fuck would you want to cart around a brick all damn day?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:40:28 AM EST
I kill almost all of my deer with a 30.06 or .308 (which have pretty much the same ballistics).
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:41:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
....The short magnums are a trifle lighter.


It really matters when you start making custom, light weight rifles. Short action rounds can keep the oz's off Vs. long action.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:42:48 AM EST
I don't see the point of any magnum east of the Mississippi. But then again I'm not a Fudd.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:42:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By marksman121:
Originally Posted By ampn:
Because you need the latest "magnum" to kill a deer from 75 yards away.


lol

I see fudds firing their .338 mags at 50 yards and the target looks like they were patterning #4 buckshot at 50 yards. They also have the LARGEST cheap-o Walmart scopes you can find on them.

Originally Posted By indysteve:
Well, I'm assuming you dont hunt much.


What will the 'Short Action' kill that a "regular" load won't?

How fast can your car go?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:45:12 AM EST
Short actions are stiffer and supposedly more accurate not only because of the stiffer action but the more even ignition of a shorter powder column in the case. So I've been told by the benchrest guys.

But yeah, it is splitting hairs IMO. 99.9% of fudds will never see a difference.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:47:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By 230JHP:
I don't see the point of any magnum east of the Mississippi. But then again I'm not a Fudd.


After moving to Alaska from Pennsylvania... I agree. .308 will take care of anything out East.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:51:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By okiehunter39:
Well, for one thing you can get 25-06 performance out of an AR-15.


Yep

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:08:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By marksman121:
When I go to the range I always find these weird magnum spent casings that have necks .223(looked like) necks. But the case looked like a .300 mag. I heard that all the powder burns faster and makes the round more consistent.


Easier to get certain scopes on a short action than a long action. I've got a Stevens 200 long action. My Nikon Prostaff just barely gets between the rings using one extension ring, with the cross slots on the bases closest to each other (rear base cross slot closest to the muzzle, front base cross slot closest to the shooter).

Been a major pain in the ass to deal with and I'm not even sure if the scope will be stable mounted this way.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:15:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By doorgunner84:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
....The short magnums are a trifle lighter.


It really matters when you start making custom, light weight rifles. Short action rounds can keep the oz's off Vs. long action.




Fair enough. Ive not even tried to follow all these new short magnums. I mean wasnt there like short magnum, then super short magnum. Then Remington started offering new crap.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:18:42 AM EST
Over kill for alot of game but I have a 300WSM That I use for Caribou in Quebec and a few oz makes a difference when you are walking across spongy ass tundra all day. My old man used a 300 win mag up there for the longest time but he too has switched to the WSM
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 8:21:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By ampn:
The same BS happens in the target shooting community. The 6.5 Creedmoor comes to mind.


The Creedmoor isnt a magnum. It is more comparable to 260 remington. It was designed because factory target ammo was hard to find in some of the more desirable calibers.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 11:00:29 AM EST
A properrly loaded 308 can be accurate* out to 1300 yards.
A properly loaded 300 WSM can be accurate out to 1600 yards.

The shor magnums are for when you need the next 200-300 yards.

(*) 155 scenars in 308 at 2950 fps does not suffer from Mach transistion until 1250 to 1300 yards at standard atmospheric conditions.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 11:05:41 AM EST
The short magnums do have their place, but Jesus, do you really need a .25, .270, 7mm, .300 and .325 short magnum?

I mean good lord! Same for the super shorts. Why get a .223 or .243 super short? You are not saving any weight and for a varmint gun, you want it heavy.

Funny about the Fudds buckshot pattern lol. Old neighbor acted like a big shot with his 7mmRUM, for those long 75 yard shots. Turns out he can't hit shit with it because of the bad flinch he has.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 11:13:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By marksman121:
When I go to the range I always find these weird magnum spent casings that have necks .223(looked like) necks. But the case looked like a .300 mag. I heard that all the powder burns faster and makes the round more consistent.


Very little improvement uses less powder , not enough to be important to me. I'll stick with the old tried and true
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 11:20:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 11:28:48 AM EST by brasidas]
There are advantages the WSMs, though they are fairly marginal.
-In factory ammo, the 300 WSM will generally be a little faster than the 300 Win Mag.
-In handloads, the 300 Win Mag will be slightly ahead of the 300 WSM (about 80 fps or so with 180s). Surprisingly, the gap narrows when you use heavier bullets (I think because the WSMs generally have lower load densities).
-The WSM will be slightly more accurate, because of the shorter powder column, shorter (stiffer) action and the fact that it doesn't have a belt.
-Some competitive shooters have been getting extremely long barrel lives out of WSMs (but that could be a fluke).
-The WSMs kick a little less because they use less powder.
-WSM brass can be shot more times because it does not have the belt.
-The WSM rifles can be more compact and lighter, because the action is not as long and you can use a shorter barrel to get optimal peformance.

My primary huntin rifle is a 300 Win Mag and I see no need to replace it, but if I didn't already have my rifle I would probably get the WSM. There is no downside that I can see.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 11:26:39 AM EST
Range buddy of mine has some 7mm short magnum in a long action and seats those LLLLOOONNNGGGG VLD bullets in it. pretty neat set up if you Must have a magazine.
great 600-900 rifle.

but in the bigger picture I say they are a gimmick
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 11:27:32 AM EST
WSSM's will fit in a smaller magazine for autoloaders
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