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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:53:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 10:53:59 AM EDT by Zhukov]
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 5:56:09 AM EDT
i can't do A/C or trans stuff. Man, being at the mercy of those places bites.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 5:58:45 AM EDT
what you need to do is upgrade the truck..............get rid of that little pussy 2wd half-ton
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 5:58:54 AM EDT

What kind of mechanics does that place employ I wonder?


They hire high school dropouts that only know how to preform a couple of simple tasks. They don't hire "mechanincs."
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:04:26 AM EDT
Reason 126 no one but me works on my truck.

And the above poster is correct: apprentices do that kind of work, not the ASE wrenchers you see running around the shop with $30,000 in Snap-On and Mac tools.

Glad the shop is making it right for you, bro.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:06:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

What kind of mechanics does that place employ I wonder?


They hire high school dropouts that only know how to preform a couple of simple tasks. They don't hire "mechanincs."



This is the same problem USA wide.
Big Rigs, cars and "non-specialized" vehicles.
No more mechanics, just "parts swappers".
I have learned to fix things myself over the years, I will NOT buy a car/Pick up newer than 85, basicly nothing electronic. I hate that I take a vehicle in to get a repair and it always comes out more fucked up than when it went in
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:09:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 6:09:31 AM EDT by legalese77]
If it makes you feel any better, I dropped 10K on a remodel job and my marble floor is not level and the vanity countertop penetrates the wall.

It'll cost more than I wanna know to tear out, relevel the floor and install new.

Needless to say, I am not amused

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:18:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:19:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By legalese77:
If it makes you feel any better, I dropped 10K on a remodel job and my marble floor is not level and the vanity countertop penetrates the wall.

It'll cost more than I wanna know to tear out, relevel the floor and install new.

Needless to say, I am not amused




Yeah, but they threw in a free set of leaning linen cabinets that you bought anyway! Quit yer whining.

Sorry, bro, you know I'm only funning you. Those pictures were, um, amazing for want of a better term.

Besides, I'm trying to quit using profanity, so I can't comment on that job too much, LOL.

Oops, thread hijack! Sorry, OP.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:20:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By TexRdnec:
what you need to do is upgrade the truck..............get rid of that little pussy 2wd half-ton



At least my truck doesn't get stuck in little mud puddles...

And quit sending me text messages on the phone. I told you I don't swing that way. I'll give you TRG's number if you're desperate.









Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:23:02 AM EDT
"Shop installs transmission cooler - hilarity does not ensue."



I disagree. I laughed.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:24:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I bought a bigger camper this past weekend, and needed to upgrade my truck's tranmission cooling ability. I had already bought a nice cooler from Autozone for $40, but decided to let a local transmission shop do it "just to be safe." (For the low, low price of $180)

Riiiiiiiight

On my Chevy - as on most cars I'm sure - the tranny fluid runs through one of the radiators for cooling before returning to the tranny. The AUXILLARY cooler is supposed to be installed INLINE with the factory cooler, usually the return line. The only time you're supposed to bypass the factory cooler altogether is if it is heavily damaged, and then the bypass cooler needs to be two sizes larger than the one they normally recommend.

It wouldn't be so sad ifI hadn't SPECIFICALLY asked the guy if he was going to in-line it. But of course.

My wife picked up the truck, I get home, and guess what? Not hard to figure out, right? Factory cooler completely disconnected, and the Jiffy-Tite quick disconnect fittings in the factory setup had their retaining springs removed (and probably thrown away). Not only that, but it was a relatively small cooler, and the jackasses had mounted it BEHIND the front cooler (for a the A/C I think).

To say that I was would be an understatement. Nothing worse than coming home to that and the place closed 30 minutes earlier so I had to wait until this morning.

At least the guy immediately acknowledged that it was installed incorrectly and said he'd fix it. I'm still pissed because you shouldn be able to rely on a TRANSMISSION repair place to install a TRANSMISSION cooler correctly in the first place. I'm pretty sure my tranny would have burned up in the summer without towing my camper. Thank God I checked that - although I'm pretty sure they would have gladly replaced my tranny for $2K when it burned up. "Your tranny burned up? Gee, sorry about that. No idea why that happened. We'll fix it for you though."

What kind of mechanics does that place employ I wonder? Corporate will hear about this for sure. Lesson learned: If you want it done right....



Yet Another reaosn why GM sucks.

Fords come with auxiliary stacked plate transmission coolers (oil to air exchangers) of proper size

My 03 E-250 comes with a LARGE honking stacked plate tranny oil cooler and a large auxiliary power steering cooler, STANDARD, out of the factory.

My 00 Crown Vic came with an auxiliary OTA stacked plate ATf cooler and power steering cooler.

I know for a fact you CAN get ATF, PS, and engine oil coolers on GM trucks/vans but I am not sure if they are options or standard.

The 2 latest Fords we have all came with ATF coolers and PS coolers
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:24:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:27:18 AM EDT
Yikes! I bought a transmission cooler for about $40 at some auto parts store, and had it installed myself in only about thirty minutes. Been working fine for about eight years now, so I guess I did it right.

Can't stand bringing my car in for work. You end up paying out the nose to have someone else fix your ride.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:28:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:32:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Yet Another reaosn why GM sucks.

Fords come with auxiliary stacked plate transmission coolers (oil to air exchangers) of proper size

My 03 E-250 comes with a LARGE honking stacked plate tranny oil cooler and a large auxiliary power steering cooler, STANDARD, out of the factory.

My 00 Crown Vic came with an auxiliary OTA stacked plate ATf cooler and power steering cooler.

I know for a fact you CAN get ATF, PS, and engine oil coolers on GM trucks/vans but I am not sure if they are options or standard.

The 2 latest Fords we have all came with ATF coolers and PS coolers



In all fairness - it's only a little 1/2 ton with no towing package. I never expected to be towing anything when I bought it.

It's not my fault Fords are so crappy that they have to add an auxillary cooler right off the bat...



LOL Ford didn't do this all the time, they used to let the auto trannies overheat and they'd pay up for the warranty replacements. They finally figured out it was cheaper for them to install the OTA exchangers. The 4R70W in the Vic and 3/4 ton E-250 isn't that bad. The 4R70W has been put behind 400+ ft-lb engines before and handle it just fine

We used to have a 1/2 ton Van taht came with absolutely nothing. I've learned that if you want a truck or van, go with the 3/4 ton (250/2500 series) and pony up the extra money for the beefy suspension and drivetrain

Now if Ford would figure out how to make paint stick to the body... but at least Ford doesn't tack all the engine compartment accessories to a single fender wall. You'd think that Ford made the Crown Vic to dish out PIT manuevers and not have much damage to the car at all
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:35:19 AM EDT
If your stock Trans cooler was in the radiator, they were correct in bypassing the stock ‘oil heater’. In-radiator coolers will heat the transmission oil to your engine coolant temp. So, if your coolant temp is running at 210, so is you trannie. Heat kills more Automatics then anything else.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:37:31 AM EDT
Woops forgot to ask, so what happened at the end? Which cooler did you get?

B&W, hayden, and a few others make a big honking 1.5" thick stacked plate cooler for engine oil and ATF. Mount that in the front of the A/C condenser, and route the ATF to the in-tank cooler first, and the have the aftermarket cooler dump the cooled ATF into the transmission. This allows the in-tank cooler to warm the ATF during the winter, and for extra cooling power in the summer.

My ATF temp sensor in the Vic shows readings in the 200F range in the summer. A trans expert told me that the ideal temp was 170F-180F (for the Ford transmission at least).

Also, using a fully synthetic ATF that meets/exceeds your ATF spec is a good idea. Has GM specified Dexron VI for all transmissions now or just new/special units? Mobil 1 ATF, available at AutoZone, meets/exceeds Dexron II/III, Mercon, and now Mercon-V.

Change your ATF every 15k-20k miles (drain torque converter, drop pan and change filter) for maximum transmission longevity.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:39:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 6:41:54 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By Wraith:
If your stock Trans cooler was in the radiator, they were correct in bypassing the stock ‘oil heater’. In-radiator coolers will heat the transmission oil to your engine coolant temp. So, if your coolant temp is running at 210, so is you trannie. Heat kills more Automatics then anything else.



That is true to an extent but your ECT (engine coolant temperature) should be in the 190F-210F range. The electric fans keep it to whatever spec is in the PCM programming. Trucks usually have mechanical fans so the ECT is kept almost constant and not above 210F.

In addition, you do NOT want to overcool your ATF in the winter. My Ford Crown Vic has an integrated thermostat that bypasses the cooler below a certain temp. The E-250 sends the ATF to the in-tank cooler first and it was installed at the factory. This allows the ATF to warm up faster in the winter, and gives you some added cooling ability in the summer. Remember that the ATF might be hotter than the coolant during heavy towing / racing, so the coolant is actually helping in that area.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:42:11 AM EDT
[ron white] the wheel fell off, it fell off, it fell the fuck off [/ron white]
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:49:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:
i can't do A/C or trans stuff. Man, being at the mercy of those places bites.



Yes you can. Get a factory service manual and you're good to go. I haven't taken a car to a shop in 5 years, because every time I did, some moron screwed something up.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:53:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:59:39 AM EDT
Zhukov,
Where did you take it?
How big (heavy) is your new trailer?

If you'd like to do a "trial tow" with a diesel pickup for comparison purposes, let me know and we'll set it up.

In my experience, there is absolutely no substitute for a diesel when towing. You'd have to compare to believe the difference.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:01:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Yet Another reaosn why GM sucks.

Fords come with auxiliary stacked plate transmission coolers (oil to air exchangers) of proper size



Not only have I seen fullsize GM 3/4 and 1 ton trucks with stacked plate transmission coolers, they also have electric fans and thermal switches on them to cool the transmission off when it gets a certain temperature.

Did your Ford have that from the factory?

If anyone wants to bash anything, they should tell him to become a man and row his own gears. My tow vehicle doesn't need a transmission cooler because it doesn't depend on the fluid for motion, only for lubrication.

Oh, and it isn't a Ford or a Chevy, FWIW.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:02:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By TexRdnec:
what you need to do is upgrade the truck..............get rid of that little pussy 2wd half-ton



At least my truck doesn't get stuck in little mud puddles...

And quit sending me text messages on the phone. I told you I don't swing that way. I'll give you TRG's number if you're desperate.



That little rat bastard got you too????

someone needs to get that guy a girl


TXL
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:09:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:10:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:26:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 7:29:48 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Yet Another reaosn why GM sucks.

Fords come with auxiliary stacked plate transmission coolers (oil to air exchangers) of proper size



Not only have I seen fullsize GM 3/4 and 1 ton trucks with stacked plate transmission coolers, they also have electric fans and thermal switches on them to cool the transmission off when it gets a certain temperature.

Did your Ford have that from the factory?

Oh, and it isn't a Ford or a Chevy, FWIW.



Actually I prefer Dodge pickup trucks with the 5.9L I6 Cummins turbodiesel. Ford has screwed us over big time with the shoddy paint and I've had it with them.

The E-250 has a mechanical clutch fan that keeps spinning regardless of CHT input.
I've seen aftermarket units with the little auxiliary electric fans attached to the cooler and that is a good idea. Dodge uses the power steering hydraulic system to power its cooling fan, which is kind of a neat idea.

From the factory, my Ford E-250 w/ the 5.4L 2V V8 came with:
* engine oil cooler (cast passages with Water to Oil heat exchanger) using coolant hoses to route coolant to the exchanger (Police cars use a water to oil heat exchanger but they route high pressure engine oil to the exchanger located in-line with the lower rad hose, lots of oil leaks at the seals... not so with the truck setup).
* 1.5" thick 32,000+ GVW stacked plate ATF OTA exchanger using the radiator in-tank cooler.
* stacked plate power steering cooler
E-250 has 8600 GVW rating and its expensive to renew the registration each year

From the factory, my Ford Crown Vic w/ the 4.6L 2V V8 came with:
* Long 24,000 GVW stacked plate cooler with integrated thermostatic bypass valve (180F)
* Long power steering cooler (tube/fin)

Both vehicles use the same Ford 4R70W automatic transmission. The 5.4l 2V V8 makes 350 ft-lb of torque, and the 4R70W has been known to handle up to 500 ft-lb of torque. Ford has a 4R100 model designed for the 350 series 5.4 V8, 6.8 V10, and 6.0L PSD V8.

I've monitored the trans fluid temperature using the TFT PID and its nothing to write home about. I just change it every 15k miles.

A manual transmission is what I want but none of the vehicles had an option for manual transmissions:
E-250 nope
crown Vic NOPE. Can you imagine grandpa rowing his own gears in the middle of traffic?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:22:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:32:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
UPDATE:

I just picked it up from the shop, and they did it right. The manager said they don't do many of these, and the ones they do are usually for damaged radiators where the aux cooler is all they use. Sounds fishy, but at least it's done. Just glad I checked it.

Now for a good follow-up karma story: Right next door is a Brake Specialists Plus store, and I wanted to get the rear diff oil changed. THey guy says they don't stock 75W90, so he told me to pick up some at Autozone or whereever and he'd charge me like $15. I got a couple of bottles, and then got stuck behind a lengthy state inspection and some chick from the State looking over his inspection records. He did my stuff in about 10 minutes flat, and when I asked him how much, he said "Don't worry about it - have a good day" !!!!

How cool is that? I'm thinking about e-mailing their corporate, but I don't want to get him in trouble either...



Go quietly slip him a gift certificate to a steakhouse or something. Or, just tell everyone you know what a great place this is (not necessarily including the "stuff for free" part) and send business his way.

Jim
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:52:42 AM EDT
I let my gear oil drain for 24+ hours (same for engine oil and ATF).
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:53:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:54:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:58:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waldo:
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=38907




what year is your Dodge truck?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:07:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 10:08:10 AM EDT by metroplex]
Yeah that would be a small trans cooler like the one on my Crown Vic. The Ford E250 has a 1.5" thick stacked plate cooler - larger but similar to the aftermarket "engine oil" coolers
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:09:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By supersix4:


what year is your Dodge truck?



No, it's not a 1/2 ton and it's an 05 Powerwagon. It comes out of the box with all the coolers and such.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:12:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:16:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 10:17:27 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By Waldo:

Originally Posted By supersix4:


what year is your Dodge truck?



No, it's not a 1/2 ton and it's an 05 Powerwagon. It comes out of the box with all the coolers and such.



I've seen setups like that on the 250/2500+ Ford, GM, and Dodge trucks/vans. I don't see an engine oil cooler in your photo, so I'm assuming it is a water to oil exchanger like the Fords (somewhere near the engine?)
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:16:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waldo:

Originally Posted By supersix4:


what year is your Dodge truck?



No, it's not a 1/2 ton and it's an 05 Powerwagon. It comes out of the box with all the coolers and such.




oh, I have an 04 2500 CTD
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 11:27:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
UPDATE:

I just picked it up from the shop, and they did it right. The manager said they don't do many of these, and the ones they do are usually for damaged radiators where the aux cooler is all they use. Sounds fishy, but at least it's done. Just glad I checked it.



Let me clarify one thing for you. Trans shops (or even a dealer) usually will bypass an existing cooler in the event of a trans failure. Just because there is no surefire way to flush the crap out of the old ones. So, this is pretty much SOP for them.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 11:29:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
I've seen setups like that on the 250/2500+ Ford, GM, and Dodge trucks/vans. I don't see an engine oil cooler in your photo, so I'm assuming it is a water to oil exchanger like the Fords (somewhere near the engine?)



You're not looking close enough.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 1:23:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Waldo:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
I've seen setups like that on the 250/2500+ Ford, GM, and Dodge trucks/vans. I don't see an engine oil cooler in your photo, so I'm assuming it is a water to oil exchanger like the Fords (somewhere near the engine?)



You're not looking close enough.



From the left:
Radiator, ATF cooler, PS cooler

On the right: A/C Condenser? Engine oil cooler?

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:30:44 PM EDT
Tag.



-K
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:40:35 PM EDT
When I install transmission coolers, I put them on the input line. You want them on the input rather than the output because it will cool the fluid as much as possible, then it goes into the radiator, which should help warm it up a bit so that you don't over-cool it. If your transmission fluid is too cold, you'll wear it out quickly, just as you would if it were too hot.

A company makes a transmission cooler thermostat, but it's expensive as hell... but it's the ideal solution to keeping your tranny fluid right at 180-190*.

Also, the transmission cooler that's built into the tank is usually on the colder side of the radiator, so that it's not at engine temperature, but rather, at the temperature of the coolant going back into the engine.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:36:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 9:37:35 PM EDT by Tim84K10]

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Actually I prefer Dodge pickup trucks with the 5.9L I6 Cummins turbodiesel.



That's what it is.




Originally Posted By Waldo:

Originally Posted By supersix4:


what year is your Dodge truck?



No, it's not a 1/2 ton and it's an 05 Powerwagon. It comes out of the box with all the coolers and such.



You ever going to spool that winch cable off the drum or is it just for cruising the town?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:42:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:
i can't do A/C or trans stuff. Man, being at the mercy of those places bites.



Trans coolers are easy. I recommend it. I own a Chrysler minivan, its almost mandadotory if I wasnt to get more than 40k miles on the trans.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 5:52:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:32:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:
You ever going to spool that winch cable off the drum or is it just for cruising the town?




I took that pic when it was brand new.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:47:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:
When I install transmission coolers, I put them on the input line. You want them on the input rather than the output because it will cool the fluid as much as possible, then it goes into the radiator, which should help warm it up a bit so that you don't over-cool it. If your transmission fluid is too cold, you'll wear it out quickly, just as you would if it were too hot.



Too much cooling? Usually not a problem here in TX.

Sounds like a good idea for your climate.



Ford actually sticks the Crown Vic ATF cooler in between the A/C condenser and radiator. This is the setup for all Panther cars, from the taxi cabs to the police interceptors, to the old man cruisers for 1998-up models. I've heard of transmissions lasting 100k-300k miles w/o any fluid service whatsoever. The taxi fleet owners run the 4R70Ws until they die because they figure a new transmission costs less than frequent fluid service and filter changes That should be a testament to the 4R70W's durability in sub-400 ft-lb applications.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:34:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waldo:

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:
You ever going to spool that winch cable off the drum or is it just for cruising the town?




I took that pic when it was brand new.



Just givin' you crap, man.

My Dodge is for pavement pounding only. Although down in North Carolina, what we call pavement up here just didn't exist in some places.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:53:20 AM EDT
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