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Posted: 9/7/2009 11:47:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2009 5:56:36 AM EST by BoatBuilder]
I live in Harrison County, Indiana. It is a farming area, with the closest town some 8-10 miles away from me. I have around a 3 acre yard. Yesterday, I had my Mossberg 930 SPX out killing moles that tear up my back yard. I probably shot 5 times into the ground at a better than 45 degree angle. The were no ricochets, as I would have gotten struck. I then shot a few rotten tomatoes from my garden that were on the ground. This is normal for me. I shoot at least once a day on my property. I am very careful about where my shots go, and I can account for each one when I pull the trigger. I also carry openly when I am on my property, as the moles don't keep scheduled hunting hours.
I have people who live around me, and they also shoot from time to time. So I was curious yesterday when I seen 2 deputies driving around like they were looking for something, as they rarely come around here. I had already finished shooting, and was entertaining family friends inside, when someone knocked on the door. I go to the door, and there are two deputies outside. One is facing the door, the other is beside the door hiding. I can see him through the window however. The one deputy facing the door yells for me to leave my gun inside(my M&P 357 sig in a desantis IWB rig) So, I slowly remove the entire holster and set it on my bookcase by the door and walk outside.
The first deputy asked me if I was the homeowner, to which I replied "yes, I am". He asked me for my license which I produced and gave to the other deputy. Then the first deputy started on a rant on how dangerous I was, and how there were children around and that they had gone code three to get here, and endangered other people going code three, because I was shooting. I tried to politely tell the deputy that I was very safe when I shoot, and was not aware there was any law I had broken in doing so. He replied that if this happens again, he will come out and "build a case" against me. I realize it does no good arguing in a situation like this, so I simply said "fair enough". They left, and I have been so fucking mad that I fear I may bust a vein. I support what these guys do, but i did nothing incorrect or unlawful.

Now, I simply ask for advice on what to do next. There are no laws around here that prohibit shooting. This is somewhat of a good ol' boy network, and I am an outsider for the most part.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:50:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 11:51:07 AM EST by GUNSFORHIRE]
Snip

I support what these guys do


Now you should reassess your thoughts!...

Just saying..
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:50:47 AM EST
Call the Sheriff and complain.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:51:14 AM EST
contact the sheriff and file a complaint about the officers remarks. See where that takes you.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:52:48 AM EST
Isolated incident
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:53:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By ColtM4:
contact the sheriff and file a complaint about the officers remarks. See where that takes you.


This would be my first choice.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:53:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By sel366:
Call the Sheriff and complain.


Go in and ask to file a complaint.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:54:06 AM EST
File a complaint about the "build a case" threat, that way its on file if they ever decide to try and build a case, lol.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:54:54 AM EST
The only advice I can give you is to make damn sure you know what IS written into local laws in your state.

Obviously one of your neighbors has a problem with your lifestyle.

If they called on you once, they will call on you again.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:55:30 AM EST
If there isn't any law prohibiting you from shooting on your property, and the rounds didn't leave your property, it sounds like the officers may have overstepped their authority a bit. Depending on how you want to proceed, you could call their department and file a formal complaint. If no laws were broken, they had no business threatening you with "building a case."

Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:55:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By ColtM4:
contact the sheriff and file a complaint about the officers remarks. See where that takes you.


Also have your friendly local land shark write a letter to the County Supervisors apprising them of what other people have been awarded by juries when their rights have been violated by counties. Mention that arresting for a legal and safe activity would almost certainly be considered a Federal Civil rights violation.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:56:00 AM EST
Tell them to fuck off... No law? then no worry... If they harass you, lawyer up.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:56:10 AM EST
You don't live in the boonies.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:56:55 AM EST
Make appointment to see sheriff and have him explain the laws that you broke. Have him show you the violations in the IC.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:57:25 AM EST
Tell them to get off your property
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:57:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By ColtM4:
contact the sheriff and file a complaint about the officers remarks. See where that takes you.


this

Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:59:15 AM EST
A couple of things.

I notice that these stories happen to guys who always describe their gun exactly along with their holster.

The other thing is I would told that cop to get ready to build his case, because I was about to shoot every round had over the next few hours.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 11:59:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By omega62:
The only advice I can give you is to make damn sure you know what IS written into local laws in your state.

Obviously one of your neighbors has a problem with your lifestyle.

If they called on you once, they will call on you again.



yup.

someone has it in for you.

Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:00:19 PM EST
Call the Sheriff and immediately report this. This is harassment and the Sheriff will immediately nip it in the bud. If your Sheriff is like our Sheriff, he's an elected official and has to serve the people who elect him. Tell him about his deputy's threats and making you feel like a criminal for exercising your constitutionally protected rights on your own property. This is the only way this sort of thing is going to end...especially if the deputy said something about "building a case against me" and "endangering children."
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:00:26 PM EST
Your home. Your property. Your gun - your right to wear it. No reason to produce ID. No reason to entertain deputy dipshit & partner.

Next time tell them to get off your property without a warrant.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:00:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By fike:
You don't live in the boonies.


Well, perhaps not as "boonie" as I would prefer, but definitely it is rural. My town consists of a four-way stop and 2 stores.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:00:56 PM EST
tag

Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:01:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By Raven101:
Tell them to get off your property


After you've filed a complaint that explicitly spells out the, "build a case against you," threat.


Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:01:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 12:02:00 PM EST by callgood]
I'm assuming you're outside the city limits. You need to research your county/state laws. IF you are ok, file a complaint with the Sheriff.

Maybe the Indiana home town forum can point you in the right direction.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:01:46 PM EST
never ever leave your house to talk to them.

EVER!
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:02:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By gotyoursix:
never ever leave your house to talk to them.

EVER!


Don't invite them inside, either.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:03:46 PM EST
I would relentlessly pester them about who complained. The fact that they Code3ed to your house isn't your fault if they have no charges. I would go let the sheriff have a piece of your mind face to face. Did you get the name or badge number of the deputy? I find that if you get real aggressive (without making threats) that it will make them rethink harassing you.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:05:23 PM EST
Get a supressor
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:06:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By krpind:
A couple of things.

I notice that these stories happen to guys who always describe their gun exactly along with their holster.

The other thing is I would told that cop to get ready to build his case, because I was about to shoot every round had over the next few hours.


I just though it important to describe the weapons and how I could have been perceived as a threat. I have other weapons I forgot to describe, that I did not use.
I will probably get tired of defending myself to everyone, but I am pretty dang normal. And I wanted info on how to proceed, not insights into my descriptive writing style.
Thanks though.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:07:19 PM EST
Research the firearm laws in your county and see if they differ from state laws. If there is no restrictions then go in and POLITELY have a chat with the Sheriff about how you were treated and that you were doing nothing wrong OR illegal.

Just because a cop does not LIKE what you are doing does not mean it is wrong or illegal. If he is doing it "for a buddy" [a friend doesn't LIKE what you are doing] then he is misusing the law for his own purposes. Usually this isn't tolerated in a decently run Police/Sheriff department.

Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:08:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By ColtM4:
contact the sheriff and file a complaint about the officers remarks. See where that takes you.


I will come and Make a Case aganist you, IF THAT is truly what a sheriff dept told me, I would calm down and then ask him if he was placeingme under arrest right now, if he said NO, I would excuse myself, ask for his badge number, say good day, and go call his boss, and your county commissionar and your congressman and anybody else in government that can FIRE THAT SOB..

that is a threat
that is illegal
that is FACISM AT ITS FINEST...


NAIL HIS ASS,
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:08:54 PM EST
You didnt have a recorder handy?
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:10:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By gtpness:
Your home. Your property. Your gun - your right to wear it. No reason to produce ID. No reason to entertain deputy dipshit & partner.

Next time tell them to get off your property without a warrant.


deputy dipshit
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:10:34 PM EST
Thanks for the replies. I will go and talk to the Sheriff and County Prosecutor tomorrow. I will update what I find out.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:12:48 PM EST
I'm not a believer in inviting the man into my life, but if I was 100% certain that I was within the law in firing a gun on my property, that "come back and build a case against you" schtick would not sit will at all. That might be enough to make me go on the warpath. At very least I think I'd see if he was willing to repeat it or if he knows he was out of line and it's your word against his. If he's stupid enough to repeat it in front of witnesses, I'd file a complaint and I'd be tempted to talk to a lawyer about further legal action. If it's going to be your word against his, just forget it, unless he's got a stack of similar complaints, you won't win that battle. I'd also be damn sure I recorded all future conversations with him.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:13:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:18:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 12:21:12 PM EST by the_ak_kid]
Originally Posted By krpind:
A couple of things.

I notice that these stories happen to guys who always describe their gun exactly along with their holster.

The other thing is I would told that cop to get ready to build his case, because I was about to shoot every round had over the next few hours.


Every round would take me ALOT more than a few hours. And I wouldn't expend every round anyway. Gotta have something to fight with.

Other than that, This.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:20:16 PM EST
Might have been someone driving by that reported the shots. I would, as others have advised, file a complaint about the threat. I would also make damn sure that you WERE doing something completely legal. Then keep a recorder next to your door and a lawyers phone # in your wallet for if/when they return.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:21:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By BoatBuilder:
Thanks for the replies. I will go and talk to the Sheriff and County Prosecutor tomorrow. I will update what I find out.


Definitely do that, although I would do as others have suggested and first research the laws of your county/state so you sound like you know what you're talking about. I would also submit a written statement documenting the deputy's threats and behavior, for future use. I would furthermore ask for a copy of the incident report, that may or may not have been completed, and that will probably tell who the complainant was. Now, don't go and abuse that information, but use it to build a defense should it later come to charges. I.e., "There's no way that Mrs. XXX could have been in danger because I was shooting in a direction opposite of her home." That kind of thing.

I'm LE, and I've responded to countless calls of this nature. Most of the time I don't even bother obtaining much info, because there's little that can be done in most unincorporated areas without someone (or someone's property) being damaged. I hate to see good folks being harangued by sorry do-good neighbors.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:26:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 12:26:52 PM EST by SevenMaryThree]
Three whole acres huh?

I can't imagine why anybody would be concerned about hearing gunfire and thinking that projectiles might leave your property.

Get a pellet gun.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:27:23 PM EST
I am sure that even with probable cause permission is needed to enter the property or at least a "warning", mistakes do happen by deputies or homeowners and the sheriff should know when his deputies are on someone's property especially in rural settings.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:29:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By BoatBuilder:
Originally Posted By krpind:
A couple of things.

I notice that these stories happen to guys who always describe their gun exactly along with their holster.

The other thing is I would told that cop to get ready to build his case, because I was about to shoot every round had over the next few hours.


I just though it important to describe the weapons and how I could have been perceived as a threat. I have other weapons I forgot to describe, that I did not use.
I will probably get tired of defending myself to everyone, but I am pretty dang normal. And I wanted info on how to proceed, not insights into my descriptive writing style.
Thanks though.


You had plenty of great advice already.....and you posted it in GD.

It not that big of a deal, it is just kind of a common thing.

I bet you are fairly new to shooting, or didn't grow up around guns.

When you have been around guns for 30 or 40 years, you know that most people don't care what kinda gun you got or what kinda holster you have.

Or maybe it's a Texas thing that we don't care what others carry.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:29:39 PM EST
I see a couple scenarios here.

Some jerk is taking offense and he migh know a deputy or 2 and got them to intimidate you.

The other thing is that the same jerk has called so often that the deputies came out just to get the jerk off of their asses.



First thing I'd research is who has moved in recently. Good chance there's where the trouble lies.


If you said you live in NC, first thing I'd ask is "who recently moved there from New Jersey?"
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:31:06 PM EST
'build a case against you' ?

I would have told them to FOAD.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:31:20 PM EST
Tannerite as a cratering charge at the opening of your driveway. Then fill the hole with grass, put up some warning signs, a no trespassing notice and go shooting again.

Yes, I'm kidding.
Call the sheriff and ask to have the laws explained. Get the complaint procedures explained too... Then have a local lawyer file a ten page complaint against the SO and the RP.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:31:45 PM EST
Tag for updates.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:32:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 12:36:12 PM EST by JBlitzen]
You were right to talk to them, and to disarm yourself while you did so.

Your responses were also appropriate. No billy badass "make me!" stuff to uniformed officers, it looks terrible in court, and pisses off the douchebag's previously uninvolved partner.

Tag to see what the sheriff says.

If your neighbors really are annoyed about the shooting, you'll probably have a difficult time identifying them. If you manage that, though, you'd do well to have a very polite and entirely unarmed conversation with them; happy neighbors don't call the police. Maybe there's a time of day that they'd prefer you not shoot at, and then everyone would be happy.

Maybe the sheriff can ask them and let you know, and thus act as a go-between in case they're scared hippies.

On the other hand, you really don't have to do any of that in most rural jurisdictions, and being neighborly these days just isn't often perceived as being neighborly.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:38:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2009 12:39:20 PM EST by jjrockbush]

Originally Posted By SevenMaryThree:
Three whole acres huh?

I can't imagine why anybody would be concerned about hearing gunfire and thinking that projectiles might leave your property.

Get a pellet gun.

I'm glad I don't have to read further into this thread before I find someone else who thinks that blowing lead randomly( not into some sort of berm, something) on three acres is a good idea.




Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:39:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By krpind:
Originally Posted By BoatBuilder:
Originally Posted By krpind:
A couple of things.

I notice that these stories happen to guys who always describe their gun exactly along with their holster.

The other thing is I would told that cop to get ready to build his case, because I was about to shoot every round had over the next few hours.


I just though it important to describe the weapons and how I could have been perceived as a threat. I have other weapons I forgot to describe, that I did not use.
I will probably get tired of defending myself to everyone, but I am pretty dang normal. And I wanted info on how to proceed, not insights into my descriptive writing style.
Thanks though.


You had plenty of great advice already.....and you posted it in GD.

It not that big of a deal, it is just kind of a common thing.

I bet you are fairly new to shooting, or didn't grow up around guns.

When you have been around guns for 30 or 40 years, you know that most people don't care what kinda gun you got or what kinda holster you have.

Or maybe it's a Texas thing that we don't care what others carry.



No problem brother. I grew up around guns, spent 8 years in the army, and have always had at least one. I was just being descriptive, and honestly, this whole thing makes me mad as hot dog fuck. I am also 42 years old, and have a family. Been married 20 years too. I am not some dumb ass johnny come lately.
I do appreciate the advice, and it feels better just to get it out of my system before I fucking move to a walled compound.
I hope everyone notices I did not "Blade 45 degrees to my door" or anything like that.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:41:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By SevenMaryThree:
Three whole acres huh?

I can't imagine why anybody would be concerned about hearing gunfire and thinking that projectiles might leave your property.

Get a pellet gun.

Let me guess, you've lived in a city your whole life. With a proper backstop or angle of fire 3 acres is more than enough to shoot on.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 12:42:55 PM EST
I would hold off making complaints, etc. I would call the head guy and ask for clarification on the laws and what is allowed and not to open a dialog. If he takes your side and says they were wrong, you are done. If not, you can ask for copies of what they are trying to enforce. Politely.
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