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Posted: 8/1/2005 7:04:01 AM EDT
As humans we are the top of the food chain and have a responsibility in the way we treat animals IMHO, especially our pets. We also hunt animals for food.

Sometimes when an animal gets injured we must put it out of it's misery. This is a responsible act even thought it involves killing the animal at our own hands.


Much like hunting is, we kill an animal at our own hands. Yet for some reason some people are repulsed by the idea of others killing an injuried animal while they think hunting is perfectly okay. Even though hunting CAUSES suffering, and the other STOPS suffering.

Personally, I think both acts are just fine and 100% justified.

Discuss


Sgatr15
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:07:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 7:08:12 AM EDT by DzlBenz]
As God's appointed stewards of His earthly domain, we must act with kindness and mercy toward the lesser creatures. A clear indication of this is when we act to end the suffering of an injured animal. Gaod gave us the game animals for our sustinence, and tame animals for companionship. However, we are given the power to terminate the lives of either under responsible circumstances.

Too easy.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:09:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 7:09:50 AM EDT by natedogg42]
I got dibs on Sarge's kitties when they get put down. BBQ at my place!
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:11:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 7:17:46 AM EDT by akethan]
Last week my wife's cat was really sick and we were going to put her out of her misery. I told her I would shoot it in the head with a .22, she thought I was joking.

We made an appointment with a vet I knew he said he would do it for $35

The cat must have heard us talking about her because the next day she was alot better and now she's back to 100%.



When I was around 10 y/o my cat had kittens and I helped my father shoot them in the head. I don't know what he was thinking, letting a kid shoot his cat's kittens.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:11:06 AM EDT
To me if you have a pet and it get's injured badly, you need to put it it down. I have.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:11:53 AM EDT
I've ended the suffering of a few pet dogs over the years, not the easiest thing to do but it needs to be done and why bother paying a vet a few hundred $ to do it, seems like a waste of money. My dad always said a man takes care of his own dog when the time comes.



Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:11:53 AM EDT
I've ended the suffering of a few pet dogs over the years, not the easiest thing to do but it needs to be done and why bother paying a vet a few hundred $ to do it, seems like a waste of money. My dad always said a man takes care of his own dog when the time comes.



Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:14:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
To me if you have a pet and it get's injured badly, you need to put it it down. I have.



As have I, and on more than one occasion. It's painful to do, but it's also the right thing to do.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:17:10 AM EDT
[DisneyBackgroundMusic] Old Yeller... Come back, Yeller... [DisneyBackgroundMusic]

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:31:00 AM EDT
I agree both acts are fine.

Hunting is fine for food, vermin control, population control, safety, other ethical reasons.

Eliminating suffering in a pet is fine by gun or needle. You have a higher standard to adhere to since a pet is trusting you for it's care unlike a wild animal. Money shouldn't be the single deciding factor in euthinizing a pet.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:31:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
As humans we are the top of the food chain and have a responsibility in the way we treat animals IMHO, especially our pets. We also hunt animals for food.

Sometimes when an animal gets injured we must put it out of it's misery. This is a responsible act even thought it involves killing the animal at our own hands.


Much like hunting is, we kill an animal at our own hands. Yet for some reason some people are repulsed by the idea of others killing an injuried animal while they think hunting is perfectly okay. Even though hunting CAUSES suffering, and the other STOPS suffering.

Personally, I think both acts are just fine and 100% justified.

Discuss


Sgatr15


Well, I agree with you on some points and don't on others. Understand though that through it all I'm still on your side and also see hunting and pet ownership as a big responsibilty.
Ok, on hunting, it is the hunters ethical duty to take the animal as cleanly as possible. That means practicing with your prefered method of hunting arm whether that be a bow, or gun.
So when you shoot the animal, it is dead either before it hits the ground or very shortly there after. The other thing is that the animal we shoot, we do not have an emotional attachment to it so that leads me to the next point.
We don't want to see our friends in pain and yet we don't want them to die either so taht is what causes us to prolong thier death if we can help it. It doesn't help the animal any and I'll be the first to say I'm all for ending suffering as soon as possible for the poor thing. However, I probably won't be shooting any of our pets in front of the kids, so you know.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:31:01 AM EDT
Its hell to shoot a companion behind the ear, but when he's been run over and is screaming in pain its the only thing you can do. It sure dont make losing your dog any easier tho.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:32:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:33:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By akethan:

When I was around 10 y/o my cat had kittens and I helped my father shoot them in the head. I don't know what he was thinking, letting a kid shoot his cat's kittens.


Yup, had a similar experience but it was puppies. Still can't look at puppies without thinking what my Dad made me do.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:33:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By coondog:
Ok, on hunting, it is the hunters ethical duty to take the animal as cleanly as possible. That means practicing with your prefered method of hunting arm whether that be a bow, or gun.



Agreed.


However, I probably won't be shooting any of our pets in front of the kids, so you know.


Again agreed.


Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:35:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 7:35:34 AM EDT by PBIR]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
To me if you have a pet and it get's injured badly, you need to put it it down. I have.



+1. More proof of the pussification of America that we even need to discuss this.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:44:15 AM EDT
I hunt, and I have pets.

I have to agree with Sarge too. Both hunting and having pets are a big responsiblity.

I agree with the posters above in that you have a responsiblity to end the animals life you're hunting with the least amount of pain possible. None if at all possible. But nature is a cruel bitch, and she didn't design things that way.

You also have a responsibility to keep your pets safe, healthy and happy. When there comes a time that your pet is sick beyond means (medical or monetary) to keep them from suffering, it's your responsibility to end their suffering. It sucks, and it's hard to do, but I've done it many times. Hell, I've also spent enough money to save a dog that I was embarrassed to tell anyone.

Something else I've done is to put down stray dogs and cats. They weren't really suffering, just hungry, skinny and wild. Do you think this is an acceptable practice Sarge?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:44:37 AM EDT
my sister had a pet rat in highschool, it had bad cancer.. i took it out back and put a 22 in its head..
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:48:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:
I agree both acts are fine.

Hunting is fine for food, vermin control, population control, safety, other ethical reasons.

Eliminating suffering in a pet is fine by gun or needle. You have a higher standard to adhere to since a pet is trusting you for it's care unlike a wild animal. Money shouldn't be the single deciding factor in euthinizing a pet.



+1 but for goodness sakes, be compassionate about it. Its natural for people to get attached to their pets. I call myself Mommy to all my dogs. Are they the same as my kids? No. Would I put them down if they were suffering. Yes. Would I brag about it? No. Its not cool.

Patty
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:50:27 AM EDT
I think SgtAR meant to post this over on DU?

I would reckon that the overwhelming majority of ARFCOMMer's would agree with you on this subject.

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:51:15 AM EDT
Where I go hunting dogs often wander by and often get shot.

The last one was in my buddies dad's back yard. A little puppy, maybe 3 months old, came walking up, he had his ribs sticking out, his hair was gone in places, and his intestines were sticking out of a hole in his side. He got taken care of, its inhumane not to.

If my dog needed it I would, just as I would expect him to take care of me if the roles were reversed
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:52:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wlscott:
Something else I've done is to put down stray dogs and cats. They weren't really suffering, just hungry, skinny and wild. Do you think this is an acceptable practice Sarge?



That is why they make silencers isn't it?

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:54:07 AM EDT
ofcouse there was 1 time this summer where we had a injured mouse, and straped it to a bottle of tannerite :)
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:56:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wlscott:
Something else I've done is to put down stray dogs and cats. They weren't really suffering, just hungry, skinny and wild. Do you think this is an acceptable practice Sarge?



Very much so. Since I know I can't take care of them and no one else will then they might as well be put down. Luckily it's been awhile since I have had to do that.


On a side note, I was watching a nature show last night on parrots, one of the smartest birds around. The parrots had two chics but not much food. So they fed the biggest chic first everytime. Only after the biggest one got feed all it wanted did the second one get fed, which was rare. Usually the second weaker chic dies of starvation during lean years.



Nature is a cruel bitch indeed.


Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:56:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Yet for some reason some people are repulsed by the idea of others killing an injuried animal while they think hunting is perfectly okay.



Personally, I don't have the emotional attachment to the deer I shoot at, that I do with my pets.

I haven't had to deal with a pet mortally injured in the field, my experience has been sick pets that had to been put to sleep after the vet determined there was nothing that can be done. I had a cat that developed a brain tumor and had to be put to sleep. I had the vet do it; after 16 years with this cat, there was no way I could pull the trigger...

I also don't shoot at coyotes or squirrels or anything I don't plan on eating. But deer, antelope, elk, or humans intent on harming my family? No problem...

—Dan
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:59:57 AM EDT
I don't hunt btw.

I find it repuilsive.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:21:33 AM EDT
I think both acts are justified as well. My only qualification to that is that the dog is one of a handful of animals that have formed a mutualy beneficial relationship with us based on companionship. (cats are always wild, horses are closer to us than cats, but dogs choose to be with us)

I just think that special relationship is worthy of additional considerations such as veterinary care where it is reasonable (not talking about more money than I would spend on myself here)
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:23:44 AM EDT
Cats form just as close a bond to humans as dogs.



They just aren't as needy.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:26:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Cats form just as close a bond to humans as dogs.



They just aren't as needy.

Sgat1r5



he he, I don't know I just hate cats so much I couldn't argue one way or ther other on that one, but what do they say - if you die, the cat is one pet that will joyfully begin eating your dead ass? I'd like to think the dog would just protect my carcass. or hump it, who knows.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:27:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FordGuy

:....... but what do they say - if you die, the cat is one pet that will joyfully begin eating your dead ass? I'd like to think the dog would just protect my carcass. or hump it, who knows.



He would humps and leave a gift for the cat.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:29:29 AM EDT
Ive had to put down many animals on the ranch, but the hardest was my dog that i had for 14 years. When i walked out with the gun i swear he knew what was up and i almost couldnt do it. he was yellow lab go figure. But when you grow up on a ranch you learn not to get attached. I dont think hunting is cruel by any stretch of the mind. Id mutch rather be shot then tore to shit by coyotes or slowly starve.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:34:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 8:36:00 AM EDT by gaspasser]
I don't hunt anymore, but I don't think it's bad. Just not for me. You must put down an injured pet because they can't rationalize pain like people can. I've had to do it and hated it, but I figured I owed it to them to be there when it happened for the years of friendship they gave me.
However, I couldn't pull the trigger. A nice shot from the vet and they slip away.
btw, our hunting cat has been given 3-6 months with lymphoma, so I'll be headed to the vet with him as soon as he shows signs. Damn.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:49:07 AM EDT
I have never met a pro-hunting person who is uncomfortable with the idea of putting down an injured pet.

Who or what are you referring to?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:53:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I don't hunt btw.

I find it repuilsive.

Sgat1r5



Why? I think its a lot of fun. Patty
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:56:59 AM EDT
i find it repulsive shooting those poor sensative paper targets, they have feelings and bond with you just as mutch as a cat..
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:02:17 AM EDT

When I was around 10 y/o my cat had kittens and I helped my father shoot them in the head. I don't know what he was thinking, letting a kid shoot his cat's kittens.


Yeah I thought about that. My grandpa use to "baptise" them a sack at a time ni the canal. I really didn't care.
We do animal control around here. Strays will not become my problem (so save the PETA type comments). I will not let my son be around it at all, although he will hunt/fish/ect. The lines could get a liittle blurry and I don't want that.
I damn sure wouldn't pay a vet and go to town to have a pet put down.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:04:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By coondog:

Originally Posted By akethan:

When I was around 10 y/o my cat had kittens and I helped my father shoot them in the head. I don't know what he was thinking, letting a kid shoot his cat's kittens.


Yup, had a similar experience but it was puppies. Still can't look at puppies without thinking what my Dad made me do.



That is fucked up....
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:24:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 9:26:26 AM EDT by SWO_daddy]
I recently had my first cat euthanized at 15 years of age. He had been slowly deteriorating over the last six months, but the first weekend in July he took a turn for the worse. By that Monday, he could bare stand and he was down to bare bones. I had been reluctant to euthanize him any earlier because he was still carrying on a semi-normal life and was not in any pain that I could tell. But by the Monday, I knew the humane thing to do was to let him go.

Now, I could have easily put a 22LR bullet in his skull. But call me sentimental and silly, I didn't think a violent, messy death was the respectful thing to do. He was not in any severe distress, so there was no hurry to kill him DRT. I drove him to the vet, and he laid on his bed on the front seat of the truck next to me w/o moving the whole way. The Dr was very kind and understanding. He explained the effect the drug would have, first rendering him unconscious then stopping his brain functions w/o pain. It was only $35 (who the hell charges hundreds of dollars for s simple injection?) and IMO, well worth it to let my first pet leave this world quietly and peacefully.

I miss him. He was a good companion and gave comfort and fun to my wife when I was gone for months at sea during my naval service. Goodbye, Frisky.

However, if any pet of mine were suffering from excruciating pain from what are obviously mortal injuries, you bet I'd plug him to end his pain. They don't deserve that suffering.

ETA: Just in case someone thinks I'm some bleeding heart, I feel no remorse in filling a duck or pheasant full of shot or drilling a deer from one side to the other with a bullet so they can become my dinner.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:30:12 AM EDT
I did it once when I was about 19 years old. It will forever be marked as one of the saddest days of my life. But I couldn't imagine letting him suffer any longer.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:42:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By FordGuy

:....... but what do they say - if you die, the cat is one pet that will joyfully begin eating your dead ass? I'd like to think the dog would just protect my carcass. or hump it, who knows.



He would humps and leave a gift for the cat.

Sgat1r5



And who says cats don't like a little extra marinade.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:03:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I don't hunt btw.

I find it repuilsive.

Sgat1r5



Why? I think its a lot of fun. Patty




Honestly?


A varmit like squirrels and such is no problem.


But I shoot a deer once when I really wasn't hungry and I saw thos ebig beautiful eyes close and decided right then and there that hunting wasn't for me.

I like to walk with nature, not kill it.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:04:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HELOBRAVO:

Originally Posted By coondog:

Originally Posted By akethan:

When I was around 10 y/o my cat had kittens and I helped my father shoot them in the head. I don't know what he was thinking, letting a kid shoot his cat's kittens.


Yup, had a similar experience but it was puppies. Still can't look at puppies without thinking what my Dad made me do.



That is fucked up....




At that age I was putting an axe to chicken's necks on a regular basis...to each their own.


Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:18:58 AM EDT
As much as I agree on principle, there are few injuries other than obviously fatal damage that the body just hasn't caught on to, that I would be able to just put a gun to his head and plug him. I would have to go out of my way to take him out where I could shoot him, and if that's the case why not not just comfort him and let the vet do his job.

I was 11 and my experiance was with a dog that did not die after a pistol shot to the head. It clearly hurt, and the dog went nuts trying to bite the air. My dad got so flustered by this he shot it in the chest, which caused him to start rolling around. A final shot to the head ended it. In that time he made sounds we had never heard before. I nearly wanted to kill myself that night. He trusted us to keep him safe and his last experiance on this earth was us hurting him beyond his limits. Not something I'll ever do again minus my dog already being in that kind of pain and just trying to end it. I told my dad I wanted to go and be there with him... that turned out to be a bad choice.

We don't know what went wrong with the first shot. Doesn't matter. Worst thing I ever experianced in my life.

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:22:00 AM EDT
I could probably put my dog down, but only as a very last resort. If we hiked for hours or days into the woods and he got so injured or sick, I would do it. But if there is a vet available, thats where we are going.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:23:30 AM EDT
Welll, I have put down the odd pet that ggets massively injured, my father was mad and my mother was hysterical, but hell, let her die in severe pain with a broken back or put a bullet in her ear....



I think I did the right thing, and would do it again if i had to
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:38:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
As much as I agree on principle, there are few injuries other than obviously fatal damage that the body just hasn't caught on to, that I would be able to just put a gun to his head and plug him. I would have to go out of my way to take him out where I could shoot him, and if that's the case why not not just comfort him and let the vet do his job.

I was 11 and my experiance was with a dog that did not die after a pistol shot to the head. It clearly hurt, and the dog went nuts trying to bite the air. My dad got so flustered by this he shot it in the chest, which caused him to start rolling around. A final shot to the head ended it. In that time he made sounds we had never heard before. I nearly wanted to kill myself that night. He trusted us to keep him safe and his last experiance on this earth was us hurting him beyond his limits. Not something I'll ever do again minus my dog already being in that kind of pain and just trying to end it. I told my dad I wanted to go and be there with him... that turned out to be a bad choice.

We don't know what went wrong with the first shot. Doesn't matter. Worst thing I ever experianced in my life.




Pretty much what I wanted to avoid at all costs with my cat.

How on earth would someone think it's OK to knowlingly put an animal through that hell just to save $40? Not saying that was your dad's motivation, but it's one I've heard on this thread.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:39:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
Welll, I have put down the odd pet that ggets massively injured, my father was mad and my mother was hysterical, but hell, let her die in severe pain with a broken back or put a bullet in her ear....



I think I did the right thing, and would do it again if i had to



Under the circumstances you describe, you did the humane thing.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:47:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
As much as I agree on principle, there are few injuries other than obviously fatal damage that the body just hasn't caught on to, that I would be able to just put a gun to his head and plug him. I would have to go out of my way to take him out where I could shoot him, and if that's the case why not not just comfort him and let the vet do his job.

I was 11 and my experiance was with a dog that did not die after a pistol shot to the head. It clearly hurt, and the dog went nuts trying to bite the air. My dad got so flustered by this he shot it in the chest, which caused him to start rolling around. A final shot to the head ended it. In that time he made sounds we had never heard before. I nearly wanted to kill myself that night. He trusted us to keep him safe and his last experiance on this earth was us hurting him beyond his limits. Not something I'll ever do again minus my dog already being in that kind of pain and just trying to end it. I told my dad I wanted to go and be there with him... that turned out to be a bad choice.

We don't know what went wrong with the first shot. Doesn't matter. Worst thing I ever experianced in my life.




Pretty much what I wanted to avoid at all costs with my cat.

How on earth would someone think it's OK to knowlingly put an animal through that hell just to save $40? Not saying that was your dad's motivation, but it's one I've heard on this thread.



In our case we lived out pretty far. Vet was a pretty long distance away, and it seemed easier and better to let him go in a green field with his buddies.... that obviously did not work out. If I could give a lethal injection I'd take care of my own, but since I can't I'll take him in and do it in a gentle way that hopefully brings comfort and peace quickly.

What's quick enough for hunting is utterly unacceptable for a companion that I love. I've seen animals shot that suffered a little longer than Opie did, but I never felt the way that seeing / hearing him scream like that did. It was god awful.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:51:37 AM EDT
I had to shoot my first dog, when he was about 4 months old. He was a purebred chocolate lab pup, and he got hit by a car. It didnt kill him instantly, and he was wailing around making an awful noise. My grandmother wanted to try to get him to the vet, but me and my grandfather knew that he wasnt going to make it, so we just shot him to put him out of his misery. Very sad.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:55:05 AM EDT
I am pro-hunting and I don't think I could bring myself to do that to most dogs or any pet of mine.

If the time comes to put my dog down, we'll go to the vet. Maybe we can hold her while she slips away so the last things she sees are the two people she loved the most. I couldn't possibly shoot my own dog.

Dang, I'm getting sad just typing this.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:56:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
I had to shoot my first dog, when he was about 4 months old. He was a purebred chocolate lab pup, and he got hit by a car. It didnt kill him instantly, and he was wailing around making an awful noise. My grandmother wanted to try to get him to the vet, but me and my grandfather knew that he wasnt going to make it, so we just shot him to put him out of his misery. Very sad.



OK... while heartbreaking if the dog is just suffering, yeah, I could possibly do it... I'd be depressed for days though.
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