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Posted: 10/9/2007 5:02:06 PM EDT
Mattapan, Mass-



Shooting Sensors Lead To Mattapan Teen's Arrest

(WBZ) MATTAPAN A teen has been arrested on gun charges thanks to the help of a new system designed to pinpoint the origin of a gunshot.

The Shot Spotter is a new sensor system that has been strategically placed throughout the city.

The sensors detect a gunshot the instant it happens, alerting police to a shooting and its location even before a 911 call comes in, which police said, sometimes never comes in.

The Shot Spotter detected shots fired at 45 Nightingale Street in Mattapan Sunday evening, and then detected more shots fired in the area hours later, Boston police officials said. No injuries were reported in the shootings.

Officials canvassed the area and eventually found a firearm at a home in the area, leading to the arrest of 17-year-old Justin Searcy, of Mattapan. Searcy was arrested on charges of unlawful possession of a firearm and unlawful possession of ammunition.

Shot Spotters are installed in a six square mile area that is considered to be the city's hot spots. Police hope the sensors will help in the fight against gun violence in the city

Source for Cut n' paste-
wbztv.com/topstories/local_story_282161021.html

Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:09:06 PM EDT
So do they just go door to door searching for guns?

Knock knock-Can we come in and search for guns? Our sensors detected a gunshot in this area.

Do you have a warrant?

No.

Have a nice evening. SLAM
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:11:22 PM EDT


That could be interesting when my mower backfires.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:11:23 PM EDT
We have something similar on HMMWVs in Iraq to detect and locate snipers.

www.gizmag.com/go/4497/

Interesting technology.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:12:04 PM EDT
haha


so if your vehicle doesn't backfire already, how does one modify it to make sure that it does?
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:14:50 PM EDT
I had heard about these on the hummers, but I thought this was fairly new tech... Had no idea cities were using this stuff.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 5:58:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
So do they just go door to door searching for guns?

Knock knock-Can we come in and search for guns? Our sensors detected a gunshot in this area.

Do you have a warrant?

No.

Have a nice evening. SLAM



The story doesn't say anything about searching homes.

The cops had a pinpoint location and showed up without the usual delay... probably lots of folks standing around and someone gave up the shooter. Happens all the time.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 6:16:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:

Originally Posted By dread-pirate:
How long till people start shooting the sensors first?


How many Ghetto thugs do you know that can hit a car at 20 ft much less a sensor on a pole?


More than you think.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 6:30:17 PM EDT
Somebody launch bottlerockets at the thing.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 6:31:55 PM EDT
I bet shootings during the fourth of july and street performances of 'bring in da noise, bring in da funk' are going to skyrocket
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 6:37:02 PM EDT
how would it work against a suppressed firearm?
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 6:38:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CWO:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
So do they just go door to door searching for guns?

Knock knock-Can we come in and search for guns? Our sensors detected a gunshot in this area.

Do you have a warrant?

No.

Have a nice evening. SLAM



The story doesn't say anything about searching homes.

The cops had a pinpoint location and showed up without the usual delay... probably lots of folks standing around and someone gave up the shooter. Happens all the time.



Officials canvassed the area and eventually found a firearm at a home in the area, leading to the arrest of 17-year-old Justin Searcy, of Mattapan. Searcy was arrested on charges of unlawful possession of a firearm and unlawful possession of ammunition.


Sounds a bit like door to door searching to me.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 6:42:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By CWO:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
So do they just go door to door searching for guns?

Knock knock-Can we come in and search for guns? Our sensors detected a gunshot in this area.

Do you have a warrant?

No.

Have a nice evening. SLAM



The story doesn't say anything about searching homes.

The cops had a pinpoint location and showed up without the usual delay... probably lots of folks standing around and someone gave up the shooter. Happens all the time.



Officials canvassed the area and eventually found a firearm at a home in the area, leading to the arrest of 17-year-old Justin Searcy, of Mattapan. Searcy was arrested on charges of unlawful possession of a firearm and unlawful possession of ammunition.


Sounds a bit like door to door searching to me.


That was my thought too.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 6:47:00 PM EDT
Slippery slope...just wait til Hitlery is elected, and guns are banned. These things go up nationwide, and shoot your gun, FPMITAP for you.

I know it's far fetched, but it's not that crazy. Maybe my tinfoil is too tight.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 6:48:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
Slippery slope...just wait til Hitlery is elected, and guns are banned. These things go up nationwide, and shoot your gun, FPMITAP for you.

I know it's far fetched, but it's not that crazy. Maybe my tinfoil is too tight.


It's certainly a possibility.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 7:08:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By CWO:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
So do they just go door to door searching for guns?

Knock knock-Can we come in and search for guns? Our sensors detected a gunshot in this area.

Do you have a warrant?

No.

Have a nice evening. SLAM



The story doesn't say anything about searching homes.

The cops had a pinpoint location and showed up without the usual delay... probably lots of folks standing around and someone gave up the shooter. Happens all the time.



Officials canvassed the area and eventually found a firearm at a home in the area, leading to the arrest of 17-year-old Justin Searcy, of Mattapan. Searcy was arrested on charges of unlawful possession of a firearm and unlawful possession of ammunition.


Sounds a bit like door to door searching to me.


That was my thought too.



And mine.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 7:17:48 PM EDT
Not new. An artilly unit had them in Somalia. Sensors would pinpoint the gunfire and they would follow up with steel rain if no friendlys radioed in that the gunfire was them.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 7:38:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
Slippery slope...just wait til Hitlery is elected, and guns are banned. These things go up nationwide, and shoot your gun, FPMITAP for you.

I know it's far fetched, but it's not that crazy. Maybe my tinfoil is too tight.


First thing in this case....

SHOOT THE SENSORS.....
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:00:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 8:20:18 PM EDT by SCAR]
Im a LEO in Gary, Indiana and we have had Shot-Spotter for a few years and it depends whos reading the system as to how well it works. The dispatchers are trained to determine if its a gun shot or something else (fireworks, backfires or nail gun) and for the most part it works good. It can tell us within 10ft (but most of the time its within 100ft) of where a shot came from and it makes it much easier to find evidence it also gives us PC to check subjects in the area (I know some of you will say thats BULL but would you be out walking around right after someone was just outside shooting) and we have found alot of shooters with it (just look for the guy who runs when he sees us right after shots were fired).

It has also helped detective determine a timeline for homicides by going back to check when shots were fired in the area where a victim was found. But again it all depends on who is checking when shot-spotter goes off, I have had several calls for shots fired and been sitting right there watching the kids light fireworks in the area. Also we were told the moniters were bulletprof but they mounted them on top of alot of buildings and we dont even know where most of them are.

We are still up in the air about if we should force entry into a home if shot-spotter says the shot came from inside but for the most part we wont force entry because we have all seen that it is not as accurate as they say it is but if it were consitintly within 10ft of where the shots came from I could see forcing entry. Luckly we have not (to my knowledge) had someone down inside a residence that shot-spotter said shots came from and we left them there to die because there was no responce at the door and we didnt make entry to save them. Think about the $$$ that lawsuit would be.

As far as going door to door telling people we want to check for guns we would never do that but if it says the shot came from inside your home and you answer the door you can count on us coming in to check to see if everyone is ok (same as a 911 hangup call we have to make sure your hurting anyone inside). This would fall under exigent circumstances and are a exeption to a warrant and anything that we see in plain view would be addmisable in court. But again it is not accurate enough for me to justify me forcing entry.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:07:00 PM EDT
I wonder if the ATF could use them to confiscate guns? These would be great for fish and game when locating poachers.........
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:10:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
So do they just go door to door searching for guns?

Knock knock-Can we come in and search for guns? Our sensors detected a gunshot in this area.

Do you have a warrant?

No.

Have a nice evening. SLAM


+1 a good attorney would eat this up
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:22:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 8:22:27 PM EDT by polik6887]

Originally Posted By helogene:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
Slippery slope...just wait til Hitlery is elected, and guns are banned. These things go up nationwide, and shoot your gun, FPMITAP for you.

I know it's far fetched, but it's not that crazy. Maybe my tinfoil is too tight.


First thing in this case....

SHOOT THE SENSORS.....


and then they know for sure where the shot came from... cause the sensor just stoped working, right after it signalled.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:32:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SCAR:
Im a LEO in Gary, Indiana and we have had Shot-Spotter for a few years and it depends whos reading the system as to how well it works. The dispatchers are trained to determine if its a gun shot or something else (fireworks, backfires or nail gun) and for the most part it works good. It can tell us within 10ft (but most of the time its within 100ft) of where a shot came from and it makes it much easier to find evidence it also gives us PC to check subjects in the area (I know some of you will say thats BULL but would you be out walking around right after someone was just outside shooting) and we have found alot of shooters with it (just look for the guy who runs when he sees us right after shots were fired).

It has also helped detective determine a timeline for homicides by going back to check when shots were fired in the area where a victim was found. But again it all depends on who is checking when shot-spotter goes off, I have had several calls for shots fired and been sitting right there watching the kids light fireworks in the area. Also we were told the moniters were bulletprof but they mounted them on top of alot of buildings and we dont even know where most of them are.

We are still up in the air about if we should force entry into a home if shot-spotter says the shot came from inside but for the most part we wont force entry because we have all seen that it is not as accurate as they say it is but if it were consitintly within 10ft of where the shots came from I could see forcing entry. Luckly we have not (to my knowledge) had someone down inside a residence that shot-spotter said shots came from and we left them there to die because there was no responce at the door and we didnt make entry to save them. Think about the $$$ that lawsuit would be.

As far as going door to door telling people we want to check for guns we would never do that but if it says the shot came from inside your home and you answer the door you can count on us coming in to check to see if everyone is ok (same as a 911 hangup call we have to make sure your hurting anyone inside). This would fall under exigent circumstances and are a exeption to a warrant and anything that we see in plain view would be addmisable in court. But again it is not accurate enough for me to justify me forcing entry.


Is it illegal to fire a legally possessed firearm in your house or on your property? When I lived in TX (Houston) only shooting across a public road was prohibited
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:36:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SCAR:
We are still up in the air about if we should force entry into a home if shot-spotter says the shot came from inside


You should never allow this thing to be PC for an entry. Consider this: if I wanted to set up someone, all I would have to do is go fire a blank pistol off a few times in front of their house. This can be useful in terms of evidence collaboration, but it seems like laziness to use it as PC.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:21:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SCAR:
As far as going door to door telling people we want to check for guns we would never do that but if it says the shot came from inside your home and you answer the door you can count on us coming in to check to see if everyone is ok (same as a 911 hangup call we have to make sure your hurting anyone inside). This would fall under exigent circumstances and are a exeption to a warrant and anything that we see in plain view would be addmisable in court. But again it is not accurate enough for me to justify me forcing entry.


In my opinion, that IS forcing entry. If you show up at my door, I refuse you entry in my home, and you come in anyway because it's exigent circumstances, you just forced your way in.

Might not be as shock-and-awe as kicking down my door, but it is the same damn thing in my book.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:37:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
You'd have to force entry into my home-I sure as fuck am not letting you in without a warrant. There are quite often several guns out around my house, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let some PD tard confiscate them because they "think" there were gunshots in my area.


Agreed. It's just another crutch for bad policework.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 2:08:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 2:09:29 AM EDT by ED_P]

Originally Posted By Laurel:

Originally Posted By SCAR:
As far as going door to door telling people we want to check for guns we would never do that but if it says the shot came from inside your home and you answer the door you can count on us coming in to check to see if everyone is ok (same as a 911 hangup call we have to make sure your hurting anyone inside). This would fall under exigent circumstances and are a exeption to a warrant and anything that we see in plain view would be addmisable in court. But again it is not accurate enough for me to justify me forcing entry.


In my opinion, that IS forcing entry. If you show up at my door, I refuse you entry in my home, and you come in anyway because it's exigent circumstances, you just forced your way in.

Might not be as shock-and-awe as kicking down my door, but it is the same damn thing in my book.


My brothers friend had all his guns confiscated for quite a while when the neighbors called that he was drunk in the yard. The police noticed a broken window, and said they had to check that everyone was ok inside. They found an "unsecured" gun inside, as this guy has a decent sized collection, and had to charge him for it. This took place in Massachusetts, where all guns must be securely stored at all times, even within your home.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 3:26:16 AM EDT
In the city where I work it illegal to fire a gun within city limits so if a shot has been fired inside then we have to investigate. As far as forcing entry everyone thinks that all we want to do is kick open doors thats not true the last thing I want to do is violate anyones rights but on the otherside of the coin I would not want to walk away from someone being hurt because a keyboard commando saw Court TV and thinks that a warrant is neded everytime the police want to talk to you. What if it was your child that was being hurt and we said oh well they wont open the door even though we heard her screaming inside. The Fire department and EMS only have to be told that there may be a medical emergengy inside and they will force entry into a home and alwayshave us standby when they do so if anyone violates someones rights it would be them but noone complains be cause everyone loves fireman.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 3:34:36 AM EDT
I'm liking my suppressors more and more.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 3:37:17 AM EDT


What happens if the sensors detect something like a camera flashing ?
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 3:42:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
I'm liking my suppressors more and more.


Big DITTO to that.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 3:49:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob1984:


What happens if the sensors detect something like a camera flashing ?


Ummm...

WTF, over?

These things triangulate according to the sound of the gunshot.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 3:50:35 AM EDT
I see this system failing us in the long run. It is really just to identify gun owners for the confiscation process.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 3:52:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattimeo:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:


What happens if the sensors detect something like a camera flashing ?


Ummm...

WTF, over?

These things triangulate according to the sound of the gunshot.


Lots of things can be made to sound like a gunshot and vice-versa.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 4:07:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stormwalker:
how would it work against a suppressed firearm?


In the novel The Black Arrow the hero used a bow and arrows to defeat the gun shot sensors.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 4:10:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By mattimeo:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:


What happens if the sensors detect something like a camera flashing ?


Ummm...

WTF, over?

These things triangulate according to the sound of the gunshot.


Lots of things can be made to sound like a gunshot and vice-versa.


I've never heard any camera flash in this day and age that sounds like a gunshot.

Besides. If I'm going to play games with the sensor, I'm just going to fire a damned gun.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 4:33:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SCAR:
Im a LEO in Gary, Indiana and we have had Shot-Spotter for a few years and it depends whos reading the system as to how well it works. The dispatchers are trained to determine if its a gun shot or something else (fireworks, backfires or nail gun) and for the most part it works good. It can tell us within 10ft (but most of the time its within 100ft) of where a shot came from and it makes it much easier to find evidence it also gives us PC to check subjects in the area (I know some of you will say thats BULL but would you be out walking around right after someone was just outside shooting) and we have found alot of shooters with it (just look for the guy who runs when he sees us right after shots were fired).

It has also helped detective determine a timeline for homicides by going back to check when shots were fired in the area where a victim was found. But again it all depends on who is checking when shot-spotter goes off, I have had several calls for shots fired and been sitting right there watching the kids light fireworks in the area. Also we were told the moniters were bulletprof but they mounted them on top of alot of buildings and we dont even know where most of them are.

We are still up in the air about if we should force entry into a home if shot-spotter says the shot came from inside but for the most part we wont force entry because we have all seen that it is not as accurate as they say it is but if it were consitintly within 10ft of where the shots came from I could see forcing entry. Luckly we have not (to my knowledge) had someone down inside a residence that shot-spotter said shots came from and we left them there to die because there was no responce at the door and we didnt make entry to save them. Think about the $$$ that lawsuit would be.

As far as going door to door telling people we want to check for guns we would never do that but if it says the shot came from inside your home and you answer the door you can count on us coming in to check to see if everyone is ok (same as a 911 hangup call we have to make sure your hurting anyone inside). This would fall under exigent circumstances and are a exeption to a warrant and anything that we see in plain view would be addmisable in court. But again it is not accurate enough for me to justify me forcing entry.


Try coming into my house without a warrant & it ain't going to be pretty!

Mike
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 4:35:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Willys48:
These would be great for fish and game when locating poachers.........


Yeah right, as soon as they put them along the road every 100' and farmers let them put them in the fields. lol
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 4:38:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SCAR:
noone complains be cause everyone loves fireman.


Not true.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 4:51:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SCAR:
In the city where I work it illegal to fire a gun within city limits so if a shot has been fired inside then we have to investigate. As far as forcing entry everyone thinks that all we want to do is kick open doors thats not true the last thing I want to do is violate anyones rights but on the otherside of the coin I would not want to walk away from someone being hurt because a keyboard commando saw Court TV and thinks that a warrant is neded everytime the police want to talk to you. What if it was your child that was being hurt and we said oh well they wont open the door even though we heard her screaming inside. The Fire department and EMS only have to be told that there may be a medical emergengy inside and they will force entry into a home and alwayshave us standby when they do so if anyone violates someones rights it would be them but noone complains be cause everyone loves fireman.


You guys need to lighten up. Read what this man is posting. He is obviously trying to balance doing his job while being careful not to tread on his fellow citizens rights.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 5:00:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ipschoser1:

Originally Posted By SCAR:
In the city where I work it illegal to fire a gun within city limits so if a shot has been fired inside then we have to investigate. As far as forcing entry everyone thinks that all we want to do is kick open doors thats not true the last thing I want to do is violate anyones rights but on the otherside of the coin I would not want to walk away from someone being hurt because a keyboard commando saw Court TV and thinks that a warrant is neded everytime the police want to talk to you. What if it was your child that was being hurt and we said oh well they wont open the door even though we heard her screaming inside. The Fire department and EMS only have to be told that there may be a medical emergengy inside and they will force entry into a home and alwayshave us standby when they do so if anyone violates someones rights it would be them but noone complains be cause everyone loves fireman.


You guys need to lighten up. Read what this man is posting. He is obviously trying to balance doing his job while being careful not to tread on his fellow citizens rights.


Shhhhhhh! Why do you want to go and spoil a perfectly fine chest thumping thread. It had already started and now you go and interject reason. How dare you!!!
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 5:26:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SCAR:
Im a LEO in Gary, Indiana and we have had Shot-Spotter for a few years and it depends whos reading the system as to how well it works. The dispatchers are trained to determine if its a gun shot or something else (fireworks, backfires or nail gun) and for the most part it works good. It can tell us within 10ft (but most of the time its within 100ft) of where a shot came from and it makes it much easier to find evidence it also gives us PC to check subjects in the area (I know some of you will say thats BULL but would you be out walking around right after someone was just outside shooting) and we have found alot of shooters with it (just look for the guy who runs when he sees us right after shots were fired).

It has also helped detective determine a timeline for homicides by going back to check when shots were fired in the area where a victim was found. But again it all depends on who is checking when shot-spotter goes off, I have had several calls for shots fired and been sitting right there watching the kids light fireworks in the area. Also we were told the moniters were bulletprof but they mounted them on top of alot of buildings and we dont even know where most of them are.

We are still up in the air about if we should force entry into a home if shot-spotter says the shot came from inside but for the most part we wont force entry because we have all seen that it is not as accurate as they say it is but if it were consitintly within 10ft of where the shots came from I could see forcing entry. Luckly we have not (to my knowledge) had someone down inside a residence that shot-spotter said shots came from and we left them there to die because there was no responce at the door and we didnt make entry to save them. Think about the $$$ that lawsuit would be.

As far as going door to door telling people we want to check for guns we would never do that but if it says the shot came from inside your home and you answer the door you can count on us coming in to check to see if everyone is ok (same as a 911 hangup call we have to make sure your hurting anyone inside). This would fall under exigent circumstances and are a exeption to a warrant and anything that we see in plain view would be addmisable in court. But again it is not accurate enough for me to justify me forcing entry.


Good post and excellent info.
Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 5:38:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 5:39:19 AM EDT by Laurel]

Originally Posted By SCAR:
In the city where I work it illegal to fire a gun within city limits so if a shot has been fired inside then we have to investigate. As far as forcing entry everyone thinks that all we want to do is kick open doors thats not true the last thing I want to do is violate anyones rights but on the otherside of the coin I would not want to walk away from someone being hurt because a keyboard commando saw Court TV and thinks that a warrant is neded everytime the police want to talk to you. What if it was your child that was being hurt and we said oh well they wont open the door even though we heard her screaming inside. The Fire department and EMS only have to be told that there may be a medical emergengy inside and they will force entry into a home and alwayshave us standby when they do so if anyone violates someones rights it would be them but noone complains be cause everyone loves fireman.


1. I would expect my child not to be in a situation where he/she is around people who either deliberately or negligently hurt him/her and then don't seek help. Also, "do it for the chillins!" is always a rationale that chaps my ass. So... don't go there.

2. I believe there is a difference between someone screaming in agony inside a house and nobody coming to the door, and the cops knocking on the door, me answering and saying no officers, everything is fine, and y'all wanting to come in anyway. Am I correct in my understanding that you would come in anyway, even if my demeanor was perfectly normal, I said I was home alone, etc.? That's sure what you made it sound like before.

3. I appreciate you trying to recognize civil rights, I really do. But let's take a look at how this could be applied in my life. Let's pretend they had those shot sensors in my town. Let's pretend some kids are screwing around with a .22 at the fairgrounds directly across the street from my house, and the sensors pick up on it and report something in the area. Then, the police come a-knocking.

If that happened tonight? Let's see - we just got back from the range. My husband would have answered the door with his Beretta on his hip. No less than one Savage 99 and one AR would have been visible from the door.

Now, we're in a position where the officers are going to want to disarm my husband "for their safety," even though he was just minding his own business, IN OUR HOME, cleaning rifles. They're going to want to search our house (where they'll find more firearms) and interrogate both of us. I'd be willing to bet, depending on what else they find or don't find in the vicinity, they're going to accuse us of at least discharging a firearm within city limits and maybe even try to confiscate our firearms until they complete an investigation. I don't know. It would not be pretty, though, and it would be in my home when we had done nothing wrong.

That is what I am afraid of.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 5:40:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 5:42:18 AM EDT by JIMBEAM]
I am reading some stupid shit here. Why the fuck do you guys want to mess with a system that is used exclusively to find the location a gunfire in populated areas that typical have high crime rates?


Link Posted: 10/11/2007 3:42:43 PM EDT
The tinfoil is strong in this thread.

First of all, these systems are next to useless IMHO. My city is getting some, and I think the money is better spent elsewhere. I work in a very high crime area, and shots fired calls and shootings are a normal thing. Most of the time, it's a no-brainer where the shots are coming from, and often you have a good idea who the shooters are if you know your local talent. But by the time you get there, it's probably long over, so without a witness or some physical evidence, you have no case. I suppose the system will cut down response time a bit, since you cut out the middleman (911 caller).



Originally Posted By jbombelli:

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:
I am reading some stupid shit here. Why the fuck do you guys want to mess with a system that is used exclusively to find the location a gunfire in populated areas that typical have high crime rates?





Because of the potential for abuse. For the sake of discussion, let's say you're my neighbor, and I hate you. I know you have guns. I know you get home at 6:00. At 5:55 I hop in my car, drive up to the front of your house, fire a couple of rounds into the air and drive away. Nobody saw anything. The shot sensors register the shots as coming from YOUR house. Now the cops come a-knocking. They find you home, and conduct their investigation, and who do you think they're gonna believe? The gun owner that says he didn't fire any shots, or the shot sensors that say he did? At a bare minimum I'll cause you a good bit of hassle.

edited: and heaven help you if you just got home from the range with dirty guns and gunshot residue all over you.


That's a pretty far out scenario, but it does have an easy solution:

Officer: "Sir, we received a call for shots fired near your residence. Do you mind if we search your house for weapons?"
You: "No thanks, not without a warrant."

Done deal, it's really pretty simple folks. A sensor isn't going to give the police the justification to kick in your front door.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:04:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 4:05:18 PM EDT by jbombelli]

Originally Posted By HKocher:
The tinfoil is strong in this thread.

First of all, these systems are next to useless IMHO. My city is getting some, and I think the money is better spent elsewhere. I work in a very high crime area, and shots fired calls and shootings are a normal thing. Most of the time, it's a no-brainer where the shots are coming from, and often you have a good idea who the shooters are if you know your local talent. But by the time you get there, it's probably long over, so without a witness or some physical evidence, you have no case. I suppose the system will cut down response time a bit, since you cut out the middleman (911 caller).



Originally Posted By jbombelli:

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:
I am reading some stupid shit here. Why the fuck do you guys want to mess with a system that is used exclusively to find the location a gunfire in populated areas that typical have high crime rates?





Because of the potential for abuse. For the sake of discussion, let's say you're my neighbor, and I hate you. I know you have guns. I know you get home at 6:00. At 5:55 I hop in my car, drive up to the front of your house, fire a couple of rounds into the air and drive away. Nobody saw anything. The shot sensors register the shots as coming from YOUR house. Now the cops come a-knocking. They find you home, and conduct their investigation, and who do you think they're gonna believe? The gun owner that says he didn't fire any shots, or the shot sensors that say he did? At a bare minimum I'll cause you a good bit of hassle.

edited: and heaven help you if you just got home from the range with dirty guns and gunshot residue all over you.


That's a pretty far out scenario, but it does have an easy solution:

Officer: "Sir, we received a call for shots fired near your residence. Do you mind if we search your house for weapons?"
You: "No thanks, not without a warrant."

Done deal, it's really pretty simple folks. A sensor isn't going to give the police the justification to kick in your front door.




It may be a far-out scenario, but with 300+million people in this country, and more every day, it's going to happen sooner or later, if it hasn't already.

And in some locales the fact that the sensors went off will probably in some way provide for "exigent circumstances" allowing the police to come in anyway. Think New Jersey. Or Chicago.

And often in life, police conduct searches without warrants. They bully their way in, and intimidate people into relinquishing their rights. You know it, and I know it. Most people aren't as up-to-date on what the police can and can't do as some of us here on ARFCOM. MOST people are completely clueless in this regard, and will bow down to their LEO masters' every wish. Especially once they've been "detained", and handcuffed "for everybody's safety." Then comes the frisk... and if the guy's carrying a recently-fired (or recently cleaned) pistol... that could be enough for an arrest AND CONVICTION right there.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:04:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By polik6887:

Originally Posted By helogene:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
Slippery slope...just wait til Hitlery is elected, and guns are banned. These things go up nationwide, and shoot your gun, FPMITAP for you.

I know it's far fetched, but it's not that crazy. Maybe my tinfoil is too tight.


First thing in this case....

SHOOT THE SENSORS.....


and then they know for sure where the shot came from... cause the sensor just stoped working, right after it signalled.



not quite.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:09:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:

Originally Posted By dread-pirate:
How long till people start shooting the sensors first?


How many Ghetto thugs do you know that can hit a car at 20 ft much less a sensor on a pole?


Or the cameras on top of a Courthouse.


The gangbangers shot out the windows instead. I was in that courthouse at the time BTW. Compton CA in about 1986.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:13:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 5:15:40 PM EDT by HKocher]

Originally Posted By jbombelli:
It may be a far-out scenario, but with 300+million people in this country, and more every day, it's going to happen sooner or later, if it hasn't already.


Honestly, I doubt it. Like I said, it's a pretty far out scenario. If your neighbor really hates you, he's much more likely to 'hotline' your house as a dope house, or file a false report alledging you threatened him with a gun or molested his pet goat. And that would be a lot more effective.



And in some locales the fact that the sensors went off will probably in some way provide for "exigent circumstances" allowing the police to come in anyway. Think New Jersey. Or Chicago.


Again, not going to happen. That case would be thrown out so fast, even in the most liberal jurisdiction, unless someone rewrote the 4th Amendment since I last read it.



And often in life, police conduct searches without warrants. They bully their way in, and intimidate people into relinquishing their rights. You know it, and I know it. Most people aren't as up-to-date on what the police can and can't do as some of us here on ARFCOM. MOST people are completely clueless in this regard, and will bow down to their LEO masters' every wish.


A lot of ARFcom has no idea either. They think they do, but they are often wrong.

Am I 'bullying' my way in if I ask for and I am granted a consenual search? It's not my fault the person hasn't educated themselves on their Constitutional rights. I don't think so.

Has an officer ever 'bullied' his way into a home? Sure, it happens, but in your scenario the officer would have no case.



Especially once they've been "detained", and handcuffed "for everybody's safety." Then comes the frisk... and if the guy's carrying a recently-fired (or recently cleaned) pistol... that could be enough for an arrest AND CONVICTION right there.


No way. Unless I've got a witness or some physical evidence, it would never happen.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:23:09 PM EDT
Overload the data stream.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 5:12:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:
I am reading some stupid shit here. Why the fuck do you guys want to mess with a system that is used exclusively to find the location a gunfire in populated areas that typical have high crime rates?




Because you have clueless posters so wrapped up in some BS George Orwell scenario that they would have a stroke at the thought of the police putting a new toaster oven in the breakroom.
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