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Posted: 9/7/2004 5:53:57 AM EST
i was always taught to never shoot at anything flat and prone to ricochets? someone explain how you avoid taking a slug in the face when shooting say a...... .45 ACP at steel?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:55:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:57:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 5:57:51 AM EST by fight4yourrights]
- angle the plates

- if using hanging plates, just shoot on a bit of an angle (downward, for example)

I've shot plenty of steel plate, but most of it was exactly straight on.



Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:57:25 AM EST
Don't shoot at it? Easiest way


Or you could angle the steel forward so it forces the bullet down when it strikes.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:57:55 AM EST
what about the guys at the bianchi cup who are popping off rounds at plates left and right wearing a t-shirt? are they lead rounds or maybe light HP rounds?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:58:12 AM EST
it's not like you're shooting at a wall, the plates drop, giving the round's energy to the plate, instead of back at the projectile
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:58:25 AM EST
Dont stand too close. Put the plates at least 20 yards away.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:59:27 AM EST
Shouldn't do it from too close or you'll likely catch a jacket. I have...doesn't hurt but it gets your attention.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:03:53 AM EST
I believe that the USPSA rule book states that steel targets can be placed no less than ten yards away from the firing line.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:04:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By peekay:
it's not like you're shooting at a wall, the plates drop, giving the round's energy to the plate, instead of back at the projectile



Not correct. At the moment of impact, the steel plate is essentially a fixed object due to its much larger mass. The plate won't move until well after the ricocheting would have had a chance to happen.

Most of the IPSC shooting has never had an issue with ricochets. I mostly shoot LSWC, but plenty of the race gun crowd shoots copper jacketed bullets without a problem.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:05:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:08:34 AM EST
I took a riccochet in the side once while shooting pepper poppers. It didn't have a lot of velocity, but it made a nice cut in me (flat, sharp lead bullet), felt like being hit by a rock or something. Never shot steel again. Bled like hell for a few minutes. My advice: Stay as far back as possible and make sure the targets are in good condition and will actually fall when hit.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:08:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 6:11:08 AM EST by markm]

Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By peekay:
it's not like you're shooting at a wall, the plates drop, giving the round's energy to the plate, instead of back at the projectile



Not correct. At the moment of impact, the steel plate is essentially a fixed object due to its much larger mass. The plate won't move until well after the ricocheting would have had a chance to happen.



Thank you for posting with common sense. If you've every watched a slow motion film of a bullet hit steel, you'll see exactly this.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:10:33 AM EST
I almost exclusively shoot steel. The bullet splatters into bits when it hits the steel. You'll never take a full bullet ricochet. Every so often you might get a little stinger from a small frag. Needles to say Eye protection is a must.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:13:49 AM EST
If you don't do it too much, you could use frangible ammo.
It would be more expensive, but would certainly cut down on richochets.
There is some Wolf ammo that is not jacketed. That might be a good compromise.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:27:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
I almost exclusively shoot steel. The bullet splatters into bits when it hits the steel. You'll never take a full bullet ricochet. Every so often you might get a little stinger from a small frag. Needles to say Eye protection is a must.



The one that hit me lost about 2/3 of its mass (90gr. 9x18 bullet). I found it and it looked kind of like a little throwing star.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:29:08 AM EST
I've been hit by a few slugs off of pepper poppers in IPSC matches. It has always been while watching other squad members shoot. I've found that standing behind the shooter reduces the opportunity for being hit. I (maybe incorrectly) assume that a bullet is going to lose more energy hitting a plate flat than if it hits at an angle. Hopefully that makes sense.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:32:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
The one that hit me lost about 2/3 of its mass (90gr. 9x18 bullet). I found it and it looked kind of like a little throwing star.



Yep. Generally those fall to the ground right beneath the gong. But sometimes you get funky shit going on.

It's fun to shoot steel in a class with several students. When the drill stops you can hear the fragments raining down on the awning behind you.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:36:08 AM EST
When I have shot steel plate the plates were angled downward. While watching other shooters, one could see impact/gravel splash in the ground from each shot. At this impact area many shiny lead "pancakes" could be found. Always wear eye pro
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:51:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
The one that hit me lost about 2/3 of its mass (90gr. 9x18 bullet). I found it and it looked kind of like a little throwing star.



Yep. Generally those fall to the ground right beneath the gong. But sometimes you get funky shit going on.

It's fun to shoot steel in a class with several students. When the drill stops you can hear the fragments raining down on the awning behind you.



Or you can enjoy picking pieces of jacket out of your face....

I have been hit by many a bullet fragment after shooting steel. No big deal so long as you have eyepro on. Occasionally a very sharp piece will make you bleed a bit, but you are usually no worse for the wear.

If shooting steel, shoot it no closer than 7 yards and you won't have much problem, though I have had fragments hit me from as far away as 20 yards.

Generally when the bullet hits the steel it just completely splatters. In so doing, it expends its energy destroying itself. Thus there is not enough energy to for the bullet to be much of a danger after that. Now when shooting steel at extreme angles, ricochet can happen. But you should usually be directly in front of steel when you shoot it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:53:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 6:54:01 AM EST by BeetleBailey]
I've been hit by fragments, along with a few of my friends. Nothing to cry about.

It's not like the bullet is going to come back at you intact, much less at any velocity close to what it went downrange at.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:00:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Or you can enjoy picking pieces of jacket out of your face.....



Never had that happen, Pilgrim. I'll sometime find a piece of lead in the bed of my pick up, though.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:01:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Or you can enjoy picking pieces of jacket out of your face.....



Never had that happen, Pilgrim. I'll sometime find a piece of lead in the bed of my pick up, though.



I had one embed itself into my chin one time. Minding my own buisness and washing up for chow, I noticed I was bleeding. Was having so much fun at BW that I didn't even notice I had been "shot". Fun stuff!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:01:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
When I practice I only shoot steel plates.

For rifles 100 yards is recommended - I get a bit closer with .223. With handguns I have seen bounce backs from the heavy slower slugs. There are special rubber coatings that can be added to the front of the plates to help prevent bounce back. The military uses them in their fun houses.

www.metaltargets.com is where I got my last two, good people.



I have ordered from metaltargets.com as well. Very pleased with the products and service!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:02:36 AM EST
The tac shooting course I took at ITTS was 7 yard steel plates. Nearly exclusively steel plates.

John
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:20:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By star2323:

I have ordered from metaltargets.com as well. Very pleased with the products and service!



There is a lot of good free shit to use out there for pistol. But for rifle I had to buy armorgard gongs from Heflin Steel. The M193 is way to high velocity for anything less than armor. It's harder on gongs than M855 or M80 .308.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:29:54 AM EST
I use steel targets alot, no problems yet.

Anyone know where to find plans online for make your own pepper poppers?

I mostly need the dimensions of the target plate.

Danny
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:00:46 AM EST
Most complaints and injuries suffered stem from using tired dented targets or unknown quality steel.

If the target impact face is dented or, worse yet has pass troughs – don’t use it, Period.

If any of the mounting or support welds are cracked you are foolish to use it. Have it repaired by a knowledgeable welder.

Targets should be made from high quality armor steel, and have smooth flat impact surfaces. Proper mounts and stands are designed to control the direction of bullet splash.

I’ve shot thousands of conventional FMJ lead core rounds on high quality targets, as close as 3-5 yards with handgun and 10 yards with carbines and have never been impacted by anything larger than large sand grains.

I won’t shoot a dented plate from any distance.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:27:44 AM EST
I've got gongs that are dented to shit that I still use. I just keep those out at least 7-10 yards. I've never had a problem, although I agree that a flat surface is ideal for total destruction of the bullet.

But M193 pocks even Armorguard gongs at 100 yards. At a hundred yards and beyond, I've never even heard a bullet fragment land near me.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:35:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Minuteman419:
I use steel targets alot, no problems yet.

Anyone know where to find plans online for make your own pepper poppers?

I mostly need the dimensions of the target plate.

Danny



www.handgunsports.com/HGS_Doc/CAD-JPG/PepFullPop.JPG
www.handgunsports.com/HGS_Doc/CAD-JPG/PepMiniPop.JPG
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:28:34 AM EST
I've shot plenty of steel including plates from as close as 3yds, here are my experiences with different types of steel targets.

1) Shot a hanging steel target at 7yds. The target was hung about 5' off the ground and angled to deflect the shot down into the ground. A shot struck the plate, ricocheted off the ground and came back to hit me just above the groin. Felt like someone chucked a rock at me; but no real damage done - not even a bruise. It was moving slow enough that I saw it coming back at me. I had just enough time to think "What the hell is that?" before the near hit to the groin registered.

2) Never caught any jacket fragments when shooting by myself but have caught them when other shooters were on the line with me, particularly at ranges of less than 7yds. Usually involves a paper cut like injury that bleeds quite well... once had a jacket fragment imbed itself under my skin and took a few days to work out. Needless to say, eye protection is a must with steel.

3) Saw someone suffer an injury when a new IDPA shooter fired into the base of a popper from about 7yds with a .40. The round ricocheted and penetrated into the abdomen of a bystander about 1" - required emergency room visit by bystander. Had the shooter actually hit the popper instead of its base, it wouldn't have been an issue.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:53:18 AM EST
one time i peppered txredneck and myself with 308 fragments. we were shooting a xerox machine, a printer, and a refridgerator, at about 30 or 40 yards. (yeah, that was smart) we wanted to see the difference between a 5.56 round and a 7.62 round on household objects. OKAY, WE WERE BORED.

did i mention we were bumpfiring them?

when you get hit, remember to safe and clear your weapon before you tend to wounds.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:28:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By meltdown:

Originally Posted By Minuteman419:
I use steel targets alot, no problems yet.

Anyone know where to find plans online for make your own pepper poppers?

I mostly need the dimensions of the target plate.

Danny



www.handgunsports.com/HGS_Doc/CAD-JPG/PepFullPop.JPG
www.handgunsports.com/HGS_Doc/CAD-JPG/PepMiniPop.JPG



Thanks meltdown!

Danny
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