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Posted: 4/22/2011 9:16:28 AM EDT
Anyone use them for training?

I was always anti shock collars, until a recent trip to the local dog park.  I met a women there who had shock collars on her two Boxers.  She would say "place" as she pointed to a spot in the park and both dogs would sit in that spot and not move.  

I got to talking to her about it and she had said she was working with a dog trainer and it was working out great.  I asked how "shocking" the collar were.  With that, she removed a collar from one of her Boxers, but it on my wrist and zapped me(kinky).  I was very surprised that it was more of a slight vibration, then a shock.  

I was wondering if anyone here did this type of training and how it's worked out for them?
Link Posted: 4/22/2011 9:23:55 AM EDT
I too have a boxer and she's dumber than a bag of hammers.
Would not obey, treats did not interest her, she was going
to do what ever she wanted to...
ENTER THE SHOCK COLLAR !
It took several hits with it before she began to realize that
if she didn't do as master said, she felt pain.
Now,  any command is executed without hesitation.
Some dogs just need it, especially the breeds that were made
for independence.
Link Posted: 4/22/2011 10:25:36 AM EDT
It's an e-collar, not a "shock-collar"

My dog is trained with, and we train with many dogs that are also trained with, e-collars. They are absolutely fantastic and powerful training tools. However like any powerful tool they can cause just as much harm as good.

To effectively use an e-collar it is highly recommended that you hook up with a local e-collar savvy trainer. They are not that common. Many trainers turn their nose up at them. They are unenlightened. You will also note that they are only training "easy" dogs.

Read up on them as much as you can. The big two e-collar companies, Tritronics and Dogtra (don't buy anything else), have a lot of good e-collar training material that you can get. So does Leerburg. There are a great many techniques to using the e-collars. Do not believe it when a trainer tells you one way is bad and another good. They all have value and you will need to determine which technique is most effective for your dog's learning style.

Trainer or no trainer one thing you should not do is throw one on your dog and start banging away on the button. Any behavior you want to train should be trained on lead first. Dogs, especially harder dogs, require physical help to guide them into the positions and behaviors you want. E-collars alone cannot provide that guidance. It is not fair to the dog, who will otherwise stare at you pityingly and start offering you random behaviors if only you would just stop banging on the button. Not a good or fair way to train.

There is a period of acclimatization that must be gone through. The dog should wear the collar for a few weeks with it turned off to get used to it so that it doesn't fear it. They will all get collar-wise eventually no matter what you do, but in our house e-collar = FUN (hikes, car, stores, training, people, etc.), so our dog happily sits while it goes on. Then it should be used to reinforce simple commands that your dog pretty much knows so that it learns to understand what the e-collar corrections mean and that they come from you and not god. This will also allow you to find the dog's "working level" which is the minimum level necessary to reinforce a behavior in a non-distracted environment.

After you've accomplished the above initial period, you know how to work the collar, what correction levels work best, and your dog understands the collar, too, then you can really fly! I taught my dog the "place" command in 10 minutes with a little bit of professional assistance. A raised "place board", 5 minutes with the lead, 5 minutes with the collar. I've stopped her from chasing deer. It's a wonderful feeling of freedom for both you and dog.

From a physical perspective the e-collar is the safest collar you can use. You cannot cause physical harm to you dog with it. It is not powerful enough to electrocute or burn. It cannot pull your dog's neck muscles. It is also the most dog-like correction, as if they were nipped by a pack mate. And you can have very accurate timing and perform corrections that are really not possible with a lead or even a long lead.

A few cautions: do not let your dog wear it for more than 8 hours a day as the contacts can cause sores. Keep things clean. Put the collar on so that the contacts are in slightly different places on the dog's neck everyday so as not to cause any one spot to get irritated. And finally, if you make a mistake and the dog vocalizes (and you will) just press on like nothing ever happened otherwise your dog may come to fear the collar.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 4/22/2011 11:07:52 AM EDT
Call it an e-collar if you want, it shocks your ass,...

Good advice however.
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 4:03:43 AM EDT
Quoted:
I was very surprised that it was more of a slight vibration, then a shock.  


Sounds like she had it on a low setting.  Why were you against e-collars?  They are a valuable tool.  Off course, it all depends on how the handler uses it.
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 7:55:32 AM EDT
I think a lot have negative connotations about eCollars because most people they they are a be all end all solution. "Dog is acting bad, shock it" - they are training tools and should be treated as such.

If you go that route, get educated on how to properly use them!
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 10:06:18 PM EDT
Quoted:
It's an e-collar, not a "shock-collar"

My dog is trained with, and we train with many dogs that are also trained with, e-collars. They are absolutely fantastic and powerful training tools. However like any powerful tool they can cause just as much harm as good.

To effectively use an e-collar it is highly recommended that you hook up with a local e-collar savvy trainer. They are not that common. Many trainers turn their nose up at them. They are unenlightened. You will also note that they are only training "easy" dogs.

Read up on them as much as you can. The big two e-collar companies, Tritronics and Dogtra (don't buy anything else), have a lot of good e-collar training material that you can get. So does Leerburg. There are a great many techniques to using the e-collars. Do not believe it when a trainer tells you one way is bad and another good. They all have value and you will need to determine which technique is most effective for your dog's learning style.

Trainer or no trainer one thing you should not do is throw one on your dog and start banging away on the button. Any behavior you want to train should be trained on lead first. Dogs, especially harder dogs, require physical help to guide them into the positions and behaviors you want. E-collars alone cannot provide that guidance. It is not fair to the dog, who will otherwise stare at you pityingly and start offering you random behaviors if only you would just stop banging on the button. Not a good or fair way to train.

There is a period of acclimatization that must be gone through. The dog should wear the collar for a few weeks with it turned off to get used to it so that it doesn't fear it. They will all get collar-wise eventually no matter what you do, but in our house e-collar = FUN (hikes, car, stores, training, people, etc.), so our dog happily sits while it goes on. Then it should be used to reinforce simple commands that your dog pretty much knows so that it learns to understand what the e-collar corrections mean and that they come from you and not god. This will also allow you to find the dog's "working level" which is the minimum level necessary to reinforce a behavior in a non-distracted environment.

After you've accomplished the above initial period, you know how to work the collar, what correction levels work best, and your dog understands the collar, too, then you can really fly! I taught my dog the "place" command in 10 minutes with a little bit of professional assistance. A raised "place board", 5 minutes with the lead, 5 minutes with the collar. I've stopped her from chasing deer. It's a wonderful feeling of freedom for both you and dog.

From a physical perspective the e-collar is the safest collar you can use. You cannot cause physical harm to you dog with it. It is not powerful enough to electrocute or burn. It cannot pull your dog's neck muscles. It is also the most dog-like correction, as if they were nipped by a pack mate. And you can have very accurate timing and perform corrections that are really not possible with a lead or even a long lead.

A few cautions: do not let your dog wear it for more than 8 hours a day as the contacts can cause sores. Keep things clean. Put the collar on so that the contacts are in slightly different places on the dog's neck everyday so as not to cause any one spot to get irritated. And finally, if you make a mistake and the dog vocalizes (and you will) just press on like nothing ever happened otherwise your dog may come to fear the collar.

Good luck!




Great info, thanks.  

I used the words "shock-collar" because that's what the lady at the dog park referred them as.  Never heard of e-collar before.  

Link Posted: 4/26/2011 10:23:55 AM EDT
I run my partner on an "e" every night.

They truly are the one of the best tools available for dog training. They are misused and over used far too much however.

If you are considering using an e-collar, please research, read, and seek experience from others who understand your goal in training and are familiar with the application of the collar.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 10:29:17 AM EDT
as a hunter I couldnt even imagine not using one.

Its hard to correct your dog at distance without one. By the time they come back or listen they might have finished their bad behavior and if you disipline them now they wouldnt make the connection.

My dog is night/day different when wearing it. He also behaves after wearing it
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 10:43:30 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was very surprised that it was more of a slight vibration, then a shock.  


Sounds like she had it on a low setting.  Why were you against e-collars?  They are a valuable tool.  Off course, it all depends on how the handler uses it.



I guess because I didn't want to shock my dog.  I never knew they were adjustable.  Up until now, all of my dogs were easy to train, so I never looked into them. Now that I have a stubborn lab/pit bull mix, I'm looking into them.  After the lady at the dog park put it on my wrist, I've realized it's not painful at all(at the setting she had it on).

Link Posted: 4/26/2011 10:44:51 AM EDT
Quoted:
as a hunter I couldnt even imagine not using one.

Its hard to correct your dog at distance without one. By the time they come back or listen they might have finished their bad behavior and if you disipline them now they wouldnt make the connection.

My dog is night/day different when wearing it. He also behaves after wearing it


Not flaming you stretch, but this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. The dog is collar sensitive and responds to the collar. This is not an ideal situation.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 10:45:09 AM EDT
Quoted:
I run my partner on an "e" every night.

They truly are the one of the best tools available for dog training. They are misused and over used far too much however.

If you are considering using an e-collar, please research, read, and seek experience from others who understand your goal in training and are familiar with the application of the collar.




Yes, I'm definitely going to use the e-collar with a trainer.  I have found two in my area, one comes highly recommened.

Link Posted: 4/26/2011 10:47:50 AM EDT
Our black lab was pretty bright to begin with, well behaved, etc. although he did have a bit of a mind of his own.  We used a collar that would issue either a beep or zap on a level 1-10 depending on which button you push to teach him the boundaries of where he's allowed to go on the property, that he better come when called, that he shouldn't eat crap or chase things that shouldn't be chased.  I'd say that there wasn't anything that we needed to teach him that took more than a day or two of training with the collar.   He's still one of the best behaved dogs I've ever seen.

Usually, no zap was even required...just a command which, if not followed resulted in a beep and, if still not obeyed, a mild zap.  We lent the collar to our friend, who didn't use it correctly so they didn't have much luck.  Plenty of people think that they're to be used for punishment rather than negative/positive reinforcement.  Then we lent it to my brother who also had good luck with it as we did.  The trick is to not let them know that you're giving the zaps.  As far as they're concerned, the Doggy Gods are hurling thunderbolts at them when they do something they ought not be doing.

I also, at his request, gave my buddy a number ten zap to his nutsack with it which resulted in him falling to the ground and dry heaving for a number of minutes.  I don't recommend doing that.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 10:48:47 AM EDT
I view them exactly like I view guns.  The thing itself isn't bad or evil, it's all about the intent of the person with the trigger.

We had collars on all of our dogs in PA, on an invisible fence system.  The shock was startling, not really 'painful', but it mostly kept them from getting out.  Mostly.  
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 10:49:45 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I run my partner on an "e" every night.

They truly are the one of the best tools available for dog training. They are misused and over used far too much however.

If you are considering using an e-collar, please research, read, and seek experience from others who understand your goal in training and are familiar with the application of the collar.




Yes, I'm definitely going to use the e-collar with a trainer.  I have found two in my area, one comes highly recommened.



Great, good for you.

When you have a collar picked out, have your dog wear it for at least two weeks without every giving it stimulation and you will be ahead of the game, before you start your training.

Not sure what you are looking for but I recommend this Dogtra are good quality and more reasonably priced than Tri Tronics.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 1:38:45 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I run my partner on an "e" every night.

They truly are the one of the best tools available for dog training. They are misused and over used far too much however.

If you are considering using an e-collar, please research, read, and seek experience from others who understand your goal in training and are familiar with the application of the collar.




Yes, I'm definitely going to use the e-collar with a trainer.  I have found two in my area, one comes highly recommened.



Great, good for you.

When you have a collar picked out, have your dog wear it for at least two weeks without every giving it stimulation and you will be ahead of the game, before you start your training.

Not sure what you are looking for but I recommend this Dogtra are good quality and more reasonably priced than Tri Tronics.


Good on ya' Palmer! Let us all know how it goes.

BiteDog: that is exactly the same collar I use. It is a good collar. I am looking to move up to the Dogtra Surestim 7100H.

Also check out www.collarclinic.com.

They ALL become collar-wise. The dog would have to be as dumb as a box of rocks to not get that way...
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 3:11:28 PM EDT
We have one for our boxer.. we used it maybe 3 weeks on low..it beeps first then a jolt. he learned that if it beeps and he didnt listen.. guess what?  at first it was on the lowest setting and he looked down at his chest and perked his ears up.. then he learned a lesson.. works great..

Its a great tool. I know people who say its cruel.. those are the same people who say NOT to use a prong collar and use a choker.. Chokers can do more harm than good in the wrong hands..

They are worth the money , every cent of it.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 7:29:58 PM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

I was very surprised that it was more of a slight vibration, then a shock.  




Sounds like she had it on a low setting.  Why were you against e-collars?  They are a valuable tool.  Off course, it all depends on how the handler uses it.






I guess because I didn't want to shock my dog. I never knew they were adjustable.  Up until now, all of my dogs were easy to train, so I never looked into them. Now that I have a stubborn lab/pit bull mix, I'm looking into them.  After the lady at the dog park put it on my wrist, I've realized it's not painful at all(at the setting she had it on).





Knowledge is power.



My EX WIFE went through the same long drawn out problem.  "I" purchased a BIG Black Lab that turned out to be tough to train.  The "E" collar was the last resort for "her" home.



PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE !!!!!!!!!  Pet owners "READ" about training an ANIMAL.  



Our ANIMAL turned into an out of control when daddy isn't home 140lbs PROBLEM.



One "E" collar and problem solved.



Best Lab I have EVER owned.



RIP Buck







FB



 
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 9:32:44 AM EDT
Shock collar worked amazing for my boxer. You feel bad about zapping them, but if you do it correctly it should only take a zap or two and they learn. I used it to train the property line and where the dog can/can't go. I zapped him  total of 3 times always prefaced by a stern 'NO!'. I haven't put a collar on him in months. Listens great.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 10:31:19 AM EDT
My best advice is to read aa777888-2's post several times.

Except for tracking, all the  training I currently do with my dog is off-lead.  One of the best training advice I received long ago was to never give a dog a command that I couldn't enforce.  Without an e-collar it would therefore be impossible to work the dog at a distance.
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