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Posted: 6/21/2001 9:54:20 PM EST
a guy just bought 2 20 round mags from me but i didnt know he lived in NJ, is it legal for me to ship them to him, he says he's a policeman and i made him send me a email stateing he swore he is who he is and not a ATF agent. can i ship them to him?, or can i block the mags or take them apart to ship them to him, ive never taken mags apart is it easy? it there somewhere where i can find out how to do this. thanks
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 9:57:14 PM EST
Question, are you going to get nailed on this one?
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 10:03:30 PM EST
what do you mean?
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 10:08:54 PM EST
Will the state AG go after you for shipping contraband into NJ? You can shipped them as "parts or components." It just depends if he will say something about it.
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 10:16:05 PM EST
well if he is a police officer it is legal for him to own them in NJ.
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 10:24:17 PM EST
You can take a chance on him. I don't how the law in NJ is interpreted for LEO owning them. So far, I have not seen any procecutions from the banned states concerning shipping banned mags.
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 11:41:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By AR-15_Newbie-guy: well if he is a police officer it is legal for him to own them in NJ.
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NO ! Unless they are owned by his department and are for use with a duty weapon. (The NJSP has info on their site -- www.njsp.org) Per a recent ruling by the AG's Office: It IS ok to do either of the following: 1. BLOCK the magazine to a maximum capacity of 15 rounds. (use a small wood dowel inside the spring) I would go with 10rds. to ensure that that "extra" 16th. round would not be able to be squeezed in..... 2. Send the magazine bodies in a separate package and the springs/floorplates/followers in another package.
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 11:45:32 PM EST
how do i take the mag apart?
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 11:47:11 PM EST
Forgot to mention: (for those of you who live in free states) Since 1991, NJ law prohibits the possession (NO Grandfather provisions) of magazines with a capacity larger than 15 rounds. NO EXCEPTIONS except for LEO and the magazines must be owned by the law enforcement agency and must be for an issued duty weapon. Magazines may now be blocked to hold no more than 15 rounds by any means temporary or permanent (as stated by the NJ Dept. of Law & Safety on Nov. 14,1997).
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 11:48:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By AR-15_Newbie-guy: how do i take the mag apart?
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Seriously??? slide off the floorplate and the spring and follower will come right out. (check the equipment/magazines forums for more detailed advice)
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 5:30:43 AM EST
SEND HIM A REFUND CHECK! Think of this as a reverse lottery, if you hit it you get to go to prison. Just picture the DA telling the jury how you sold "baby killer" magazines to someone through the mail. Not worth the risk. I think the courts have ruled that it's ok for an LEO to lie in pursuit of a case so don't bet your freedom on some "sworn" statement, especially one with no witness.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 5:50:39 AM EST
It is perfectly legal to send in a blocked large capacity magazine to the state of NJ. Blocks do not have to be permanent. Anyone can own and use them in this state! Send them to the guy and don't worry!
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 6:32:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By motoguzzi: SEND HIM A REFUND CHECK! Think of this as a reverse lottery, if you hit it you get to go to prison. Just picture the DA telling the jury how you sold "baby killer" magazines to someone through the mail. Not worth the risk. I think the courts have ruled that it's ok for an LEO to lie in pursuit of a case so don't bet your freedom on some "sworn" statement, especially one with no witness.
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Permanently or Temporarily blocking the magazines is fully permissible. Why should he lose the sale? AR_15_Newbie-Guy --- If you have any doubt, drop me an e-mail and I'll put you in touch with someone who can fax out a letter laying out the procedure to 'ya.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 6:42:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/22/2001 6:40:43 AM EST by Norm_G]
Don't lose the sale over this silly crap. I live in NJ and shoot with 20 & 30 round mags all the time. RBAD and Mauser88 have it right. A piece of dowel or wood lathe inside the spring is all it takes. You could probably even just put a piece of wood in the package & tell him to block them as required. Then it's on his butt to do whatever he wants. One website suggested that putting in 5 empty cases neets the letter of the law for only taking 15 rounds, but I think that's stretching it. Check out the links at the bottom of this page for more info on NJ Ass-gun & mag laws. NJ has a lot of "judge made" law that's not in the statutes. [url]www.nationalccw.com[/url] Hit the "concealed carry" link at the bottom of the page and see the ass-gun links at the bottom of that page. Enjoy, Norm
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 7:15:00 AM EST
I'm a LEO in NJ, so take it for what it's worth. High capacity magazines are legal for anyone to own in NJ as long as they are not capable of holding more than 15 rounds. The magazines can either be blocked with a piece of dowel on the inside, loading the mag with enough empty brass so it can't exced the 15 round capacity, or simply dissassemble them so they hold ZERO rounds. Most gunstores will not sell you high capacity magazines because they have been "demonized" in NJ, and nobody wants to be the one to get blamed when some psycho buys a 20 round mag and goes on a shooting spree, then claims "I got it from Billy Bob's Gun & Pawn!" I've argued this scenario many times, but most people will not ship high cap mags to NJ. If you buy a Springfield Armory M1A in NJ though, the mags come blocked with a piece of wood. I'm not sure about other manufacturers... So while you live in NJ forget about anyone helping stand up for your rights. Once contraband, always contraband in NJ. Some morons (cops included) in this state think it's illegal to own hollowpoint bullets here. Hollowpoint bullets are illegal to be used in the commission of a crime in NJ (ooh, I bet that scares the bad guys from using a gun). A LEO can own hi-cap magazines by getting a signed letterhead from his department, and the mags are supposed to be used in a law enforcement capacity. That means mags for your on or off duty gun, or whatever you use. The mags do not have to be owned by the department. If the department had to buy them, you would never see any. We buy them ourselves, and they belong to us, and can only be sold to other LEO's. I highly doubt some law enforcement officer is trying to entrap you by buying two 20rd AR mags. With all the stuff you can buy off the net, I think a Beta-C mag would look "more evil" if he was trying to bust you... though if you ever read the newspapers, they call an SKS an AK-47, so it doesn't matter what you get busted with. The media will make sure it looks like you were a wacko gun-nut survivalist type. You can also send him a refund, but I think that sucks. If he can legally own them, then sell them to him. If you lived in a state where you can legally own stuff, but everyone refuses to sell it to you, you would be pissed. I get tired of arguing with people about the legalities of what we can own and what we can't here. I just have my hi-caps shipped to another state or go out of state to buy them. As long as they're blocked/dissassembled when I bring them into the People's Republic of New Jersey, I'm legal.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 2:44:25 PM EST
R4 Fan has it exactly correct. Now if some of the vendors on this board would slip into a dry Depends and grow a pair, we would all be better off.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 2:51:51 PM EST
You say theyre 20 round mags? Put 5 rds of fired brass in em, and ship em. Law says "cannot accept over 15 rounds" doesnt say anything on how it must be blocked. There is another post a few weeks old, it's something like "bravo to jersey city armory" or something to that effect. This post will give you the specs of a piece of wood to put in it, it you prefer to do it this way. Eric
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 2:54:13 PM EST
Well - ya know - Email is pretty much still secure ! Don't ask - Don,t tell !! Do you really wanna advcertise your business on this Board
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 3:40:31 PM EST
First of all, I'm a LEO and I would never give advice that I think would get someone in trouble, or condone illegal activity. Second of all, high capacity magazines are LEGAL in the People's Republik of New Jersey, as long as they are blocked by inserting something in the mag body, loading with empty brass, or dissassembling it, THEY ARE LEGAL. I see ads all the time for parts kits and other stuff that says, "Cannot be shipped to NJ." Instead of finding out the law (real hard for a vendor to call the State Police firearms unit) they just boycott us altogether. If something is legal here, why should we be punished? I bought a pre-ban AR upper awhile back (unregulated item) that I wanted, as I was going to convert it to a post-ban (grind off the bayonet lug and have a muzzle brake welded on). I had to mail the guy a copy of my LEO identification! All this paranoia is insane! And finally third of all, I don't care what I post on the net because I'm LEGAL. I'm not doing anything wrong, and I wouldn't want anyone else to do something stupid out of ignorance. I really don't think a company like Springfield Armory would sell M1A's here with blocked 20rd mags if they weren't legal. I think I'm getting a headache... ;^)
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 4:24:24 PM EST
R4 fan, I am from the PRNJ also and can only hope you are a LEO in my town. The laws make no F#@^ing sense and do zero to prevent or deter crime. I went to get 2 handgun permits and was told I had to pay the normal $2.00 for each permit and $15.00 for a State police criminal check. I have purchased many handguns in the same town before and never had to pay the $15.00. I called the Firearms division of the State Police to see if this was correct and they said each municipality does what they want to. I filled out the paperwork, paid the $15.00 and requested 6 permits. I figured $15.00/6 was a lot better than $15.00/2. When the officer saw I wanted 6 permits, she asked why I changed the form from 2 to 6. I said the $15.00 fee divided by six is a lot less than divided by 2. Now lets see if I get them!
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 4:45:55 PM EST
R4, I wanted to order a MAK 90 a while back.(MAK 90 won it's legality by a court case, Monmouth county I believe) I couldnt get anyone to touch it. Many guys flat out hung up on me!!! The laws in this state arent confusing by accident. Some things are legal, and you STILL cant buy them. Eric
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 10:28:16 PM EST
i gave the guy back his money. i just dont want to take a chance. i dont want to take the hassle to block the mags. i dont have any empty brass cause i dont own a AR, i traded for these mags in hope of getting one but i traded my ak for a FAL. so the mags are still for sale, $37 shipped for adventure line 20 round 90% mags. i think that is a good price. email if ya want em
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 2:24:31 AM EST
AR-15_Newbie-guy i gave the guy back his money. i just dont want to take a chance. That makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 3:59:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR-15_Newbie-guy: i gave the guy back his money. i just dont want to take a chance. i dont want to take the hassle to block the mags. i dont have any empty brass cause i dont own a AR, i traded for these mags in hope of getting one but i traded my ak for a FAL. so the mags are still for sale, $37 shipped for adventure line 20 round 90% mags. i think that is a good price. email if ya want em
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I would ask for them but you might be afraid to send them to me.(Just kidding) I live in NY and we have a mag ban. It mirrors the fed law so I can still buy them through the mail.I just bought 3 20 round GI mags from CDNN and one 30 GI mag for 105 shipped. I understand you not wanting to get nailed but the histeria is what is the problem. I would have let him send me a statement that he was alloud to posess the mag if it is blocked. I would have sent him the mag blocked and I would have taken a picture and then sent it to him. But on the other hand I can be bothered with that crap also so I might have given his money back also. LOL
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 3:07:28 PM EST
R4Fan had it exactly right. As for the newbie who refunded the guys money, if you think that any government agency is going to try to set you up for a bust on 2 measly magazines, your tinfoil hat is obviously askew. Tighten it up. As for you PRNJ lurkers out there, there are plenty of guys on the net who will be happy to sell you as many 20/30 rounders as you can afford. Just don't forget to block them to accept no more than 15 as R4fan said. FTPRNJ!!!
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