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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 1/25/2006 3:14:56 PM EDT
When will they realize it isn't just the damn illegal workers, the guest worker program should fix these kinds of instances right up huh.


Sheriff says local law outgunned, outmanned on border

EL PASO, Texas Texas border sheriffs say heavily armed, camouflage-clad men have been known to cross the Rio Grande into Texas from Mexico.

Law enforcement officials say the men look like Mexican soldiers and drive military-like Humvees -- but with mounted machine guns to protect drug runners.

At least twice in the past three months Hudspeth County sheriff's deputies have had tense standoffs with the groups.

The latest confrontation was Monday.

Hudspeth County Sheriff Arvin West says his officers could only watch as a green Humvee crossed from the U-S side of the Rio Grande back into Mexico.

Mexican authorities say no soldiers were involved in any of the incursions.

Maverick County Sheriff Tomas Herrera says the problem is getting worse by the day.

Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez says his office routinely gets calls about boatloads of armed men wearing military-style uniforms with backpacks or bags.

Gonzalez, who heads the Texas Border Sheriff's Coalition, says U-S officials need to work with their Mexican counterparts to identify and stop the armed groups.



http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=4411462&nav=0w0v
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:17:03 PM EDT
I would not want to be a lone sheriff deputy who pulls up on some Mexian military guys in the middle of the dessert,
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:18:38 PM EDT
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:21:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 3:22:18 PM EDT by LANCEMAN]

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers



Hell at the very least they should send the ATF and some snipers down there since these guys are in possession of "illegal" machine guns on US soil.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:28:08 PM EDT
All those federal agents that were so eager to shoot up Mt. Carmel or the Weaver place could be put to good use on our souther border. They would not even have to take heat for firing on US citizens. That's a good assignment for them.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:47:43 PM EDT
homeland INsecurity?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:50:21 PM EDT
.50BMG + hilltop + engine block= foot soldiers that are easy pick'ns
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:01:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers


Wouldn't that constitute "militarization" of LEOs that many of you are always griping about?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:06:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers


Wouldn't that constitute "militarization" of LEOs that many of you are always griping about?



Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:09:13 PM EDT
I wish this country would let the people of the US take on this problem. I could see the problem being resolved quite fast with just the members on this board takeing a vacation down there with there gear in tow. Wonder what Mexico would think if we held a Knob Creek expedition or Bulletfest with the backstop the Mexican desert....... Would be fun......
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:33:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers


Wouldn't that constitute "militarization" of LEOs that many of you are always griping about?



As long as they aren't US citizens I don't care what they do to them or how they do it. When it comes to "our" people it is a different story.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:35:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 4:35:45 PM EDT by tc556guy]

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers


Wouldn't that constitute "militarization" of LEOs that many of you are always griping about?



As long as they aren't US citizens I don't care what they do to them or how they do it. When it comes to "our" people it is a different story.


Double standard. You can't have it both ways. You either give LEOs the tools to do their job or you don't.

Edit to add: RPGs are a bit overboard. And well outside the budget of most agencies.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:40:14 PM EDT
Hudspeth, Maverick, and Zapata counties need a couple of surplus A-10's...
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:41:57 PM EDT
Don't forget also that the local law down there on the border is also on the payroll of the drug gangs.

There's alot of money to be made in drugs, and alot of judges and cops that can be bought off with the profits.....
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:49:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 4:50:17 PM EDT by Mauser101]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers


Wouldn't that constitute "militarization" of LEOs that many of you are always griping about?



I can agree with you there. I think this is and should be the purview of the Border Patrol (which is in dire need of a tripling in size) and State National Guards (which should get federal funding to run operation along the border in concert with the border patrol).

Peace officers is what they used to be called and that's what their supposed to be there for.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:55:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers



Hell at the very least they should send the ATF and some snipers down there since these guys are in possession of "illegal" machine guns on US soil.



They'd end up shooting the minute men...
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:21:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers


Wouldn't that constitute "militarization" of LEOs that many of you are always griping about?



As long as they aren't US citizens I don't care what they do to them or how they do it. When it comes to "our" people it is a different story.


Double standard. You can't have it both ways. You either give LEOs the tools to do their job or you don't.

Edit to add: RPGs are a bit overboard. And well outside the budget of most agencies.



Do you mean Double Standards like one class of citizens being given national concealed carry rights and another class not ?

What would be so hard about it really ? You can use these tools on the people invading the country but you can't use these tools on our own citizens. Would it be that hard for them to restrain themselves in that regard ?

What's wrong with double standards, citizens are equal under the constitution, not enemy invaders, right ?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:25:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:
Do you mean Double Standards like one class of citizens being given national concealed carry rights and another class not ?



And there is currently a bill going forward that will extend that ability. The process had to start somewhere.


What would be so hard about it really ? You can use these tools on the people invading the country but you can't use these tools on our own citizens. Would it be that hard for them to restrain themselves in that regard ?

What's wrong with double standards, citizens are equal under the constitution, not enemy invaders, right ?



Everyone has rights, whether they are citizens or not. You can't say that its ok to use a certain tool on non-citizens but not citizens.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:34:43 PM EDT
The way I see it is this. Citizens pay taxes, contribute to the betterment of the country, are recognized as citizens of that country, possess a passport from that country, work and live in that country, and in the US, possess a social security card and valid number. Now. You are saying that it's not ok to have a double standard, but in effect you are saying that the border between Mexico and the US should not exist. I believe that it should, and should be more militarized. The border is the only thing keeping Mexico's problem out of the US. They have too many people, not enough un-corrupt government, good paying jobs, too much crime, etc. The border keeps that problem from becoming our problem. If we let mexican's come over the border freely, and take our $ back, they are in effect stealing our most important resource: the AMERICAN worker and jobs that they fill. Not everyone can or will be a high level CEO of a multi-national company. We need to protect American workers.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:35:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:
Do you mean Double Standards like one class of citizens being given national concealed carry rights and another class not ?



And there is currently a bill going forward that will extend that ability. The process had to start somewhere.


What would be so hard about it really ? You can use these tools on the people invading the country but you can't use these tools on our own citizens. Would it be that hard for them to restrain themselves in that regard ?

What's wrong with double standards, citizens are equal under the constitution, not enemy invaders, right ?



Everyone has rights, whether they are citizens or not. You can't say that its ok to use a certain tool on non-citizens but not citizens.



Just wondering where you are coming from with that ? So you think it is wrong for the government to "torture" or hold enemies of the US without trial, even though they aren't citizens they still have rights huh? Anyone invading our border is an enemy combatant and should be sent to Gitmo IMO. Is Mexico gonna declare war on us as a result or cut off our labor supply ?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:38:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 5:40:20 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers


Wouldn't that constitute "militarization" of LEOs that many of you are always griping about?



I'm in favor of militarizing the USBP.
In every other country, the border patrol is paramilitary - it should be the same here.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:17:38 PM EDT
WTF?

Protecting the border from foreign incursions is

NOTHING LIKE

Providing Law Enforcement for the Citizens of this Country

Militarize the Damn Border, what more proof of invasion is neccessary?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:48:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
All those federal agents that were so eager to shoot up Mt. Carmel or the Weaver place could be put to good use on our souther border. They would not even have to take heat for firing on US citizens. That's a good assignment for them.



ATF are you reading this. Southern Border-Illegal machine guns. Great press coverage. Go get them!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:56:47 PM EDT
The money for official security doesnt stop on the other side of the border.

Gonna have make drugs legal again to take them out of the hands of the criminals
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:30:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 10:30:52 PM EDT by tc556guy]

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Just wondering where you are coming from with that ? So you think it is wrong for the government to "torture" or hold enemies of the US without trial, even though they aren't citizens they still have rights huh?



Yes, I believe that they do.


Anyone invading our border is an enemy combatant and should be sent to Gitmo IMO.


No, I don't believe that. And Gitmo should not even exist. It was created as a way for the government to hold those guys and do what they wanted to them without giving them the rights to trial, representation, etc that they would have if they'd been brought back to the USA.


Is Mexico gonna declare war on us as a result or cut off our labor supply ?


While its not right that the Mexican gov't turn such a blind eye to whats going on at the border, we should not do what you advocate, either. Sounds too much like the behavior of a bully, not a free country.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:41:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers


Wouldn't that constitute "militarization" of LEOs that many of you are always griping about?




It's okay to militarize them when they're essentially fighting a war.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:45:26 PM EDT
A good .308 bolt gun or AR10 with some glass is all that deputy would need, along with a little practice and training on movement techniques and use of cover & concealment. LEOs dont need anything that a citizen cannot own, not unless the leo and/or agency pays the NFA taxes and abides by NFA rules. They should pay the same amount we do for a transferable M16, they shouldnt get a break.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:52:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By N_Viejo:
Don't forget also that the local law down there on the border is also on the payroll of the drug gangs.

There's alot of money to be made in drugs, and alot of judges and cops that can be bought off with the profits.....



You are SO full of shit. You don't know squat up there in new york.

I live in El Paso. I know the El Paso Sheriff, Leo Samaniego. He is NOT on the take. That is not to say there are none on the payroll but to say "the local law down there on the border is also on the payroll" is just stupid. Now the law in Mexico is definately on the payroll of the drug runners. The sheriffs listed in the article are not near El Paso.

On another note, I have been 4 wheeling in the desert around El Paso for 25 years and have NEVER seen an armed incursion into the US, or an unarmed one for that matter. I've run across a few border patrol agents while out running around but never any Mexican police or drug gangs.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:01:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dukota:

Originally Posted By N_Viejo:
Don't forget also that the local law down there on the border is also on the payroll of the drug gangs.

There's alot of money to be made in drugs, and alot of judges and cops that can be bought off with the profits.....



You are SO full of shit. You don't know squat up there in new york.

I live in El Paso. I know the El Paso Sheriff, Leo Samaniego. He is NOT on the take. That is not to say there are none on the payroll but to say "the local law down there on the border is also on the payroll" is just stupid. Now the law in Mexico is definately on the payroll of the drug runners. The sheriffs listed in the article are not near El Paso.

On another note, I have been 4 wheeling in the desert around El Paso for 25 years and have NEVER seen an armed incursion into the US, or an unarmed one for that matter. I've run across a few border patrol agents while out running around but never any Mexican police or drug gangs.



don't they usually move at night so they're not visible to anyone without nightvision equipment?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:05:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
A LEOs dont need anything that a citizen cannot own, not unless the leo and/or agency pays the NFA taxes and abides by NFA rules. They should pay the same amount we do for a transferable M16, they shouldnt get a break.


A governmental agency is in fact tax exempt. Do you REALLY think it is an efficient use of tax dollars to be paying a TAX? Think about it. The prices of pre-86 stuff is an artificial construct because of the limited supply. While I am in favor of overturning the 86 ban, I don't think that gov't agencies should pay what the average citizen is paying now for pre-86 stuff.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:07:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zaphar:

Originally Posted By Dukota:

Originally Posted By N_Viejo:
Don't forget also that the local law down there on the border is also on the payroll of the drug gangs.

There's alot of money to be made in drugs, and alot of judges and cops that can be bought off with the profits.....



You are SO full of shit. You don't know squat up there in new york.

I live in El Paso. I know the El Paso Sheriff, Leo Samaniego. He is NOT on the take. That is not to say there are none on the payroll but to say "the local law down there on the border is also on the payroll" is just stupid. Now the law in Mexico is definately on the payroll of the drug runners. The sheriffs listed in the article are not near El Paso.

On another note, I have been 4 wheeling in the desert around El Paso for 25 years and have NEVER seen an armed incursion into the US, or an unarmed one for that matter. I've run across a few border patrol agents while out running around but never any Mexican police or drug gangs.



don't they usually move at night so they're not visible to anyone without nightvision equipment?



I go out quite often at nite, spot lighting (not hunting). I also have a night vision scope. The only thing I ever see might be a few illegals walking along the railroad tracks, waiting for a train to come along to try to hop on. Border Patrol usually picks them up. There is an area a couple of miles from me where the mexican gangs were attacking trains and stealing TV's and other electronics but even that has been really quiet lately.

We go out to the desert on the New Mexico/mexico border and camp out quite often, always well armed
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:32:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

A governmental agency is in fact tax exempt. Do you REALLY think it is an efficient use of tax dollars to be paying a TAX? Think about it.



Yes I think all the cities, county, and state vehicles should pay taxes on their fuel like the rest of us. Their vehicles cause the same damage to the roads as private owned vehicles do. If their fuel was taxed the same as us, that tax revenue would go into the road fund that the rest of us pay into. Then there would be more revenue to fix the roads.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:41:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 10:43:12 AM EDT by ArmedAggie]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I would not want to be a lone sheriff deputy who pulls up on some Mexian military guys in the middle of the dessert,



Dessert? You mean like pie?

You have to sneak up on the Mexican military during their siesta.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:43:12 AM EDT
ibtl

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 1:30:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers


Wouldn't that constitute "militarization" of LEOs that many of you are always griping about?



As long as they aren't US citizens I don't care what they do to them or how they do it. When it comes to "our" people it is a different story.


Double standard. You can't have it both ways. You either give LEOs the tools to do their job or you don't.

Edit to add: RPGs are a bit overboard. And well outside the budget of most agencies.


Get some from Iraq. They are free.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:46:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DVCAPI:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

A governmental agency is in fact tax exempt. Do you REALLY think it is an efficient use of tax dollars to be paying a TAX? Think about it.



Yes I think all the cities, county, and state vehicles should pay taxes on their fuel like the rest of us. Their vehicles cause the same damage to the roads as private owned vehicles do. If their fuel was taxed the same as us, that tax revenue would go into the road fund that the rest of us pay into. Then there would be more revenue to fix the roads.



Then your own taxes would be going up to pay for THEIR tax. You really want that?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:55:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers


Wouldn't that constitute "militarization" of LEOs that many of you are always griping about?




It's okay to militarize them when they're essentially fighting a war.



No, fighting a war is what the Military does. That's why we have one.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:05:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Just arm the deputies with RPGs to take out the hummers



Hell at the very least they should send the ATF and some snipers down there since these guys are in possession of "illegal" machine guns on US soil.



They'd end up shooting the minute men...



No, Border Patrol would steer us away from the ATF.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:57:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By nf9648:
A LEOs dont need anything that a citizen cannot own, not unless the leo and/or agency pays the NFA taxes and abides by NFA rules. They should pay the same amount we do for a transferable M16, they shouldnt get a break.


A governmental agency is in fact tax exempt. Do you REALLY think it is an efficient use of tax dollars to be paying a TAX? Think about it. The prices of pre-86 stuff is an artificial construct because of the limited supply. While I am in favor of overturning the 86 ban, I don't think that gov't agencies should pay what the average citizen is paying now for pre-86 stuff.



I do. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I bet if one were to look close enough at the definition of "corruption", the govt. passing laws that it is exempt from fits right into it. Besides, I bet Colt would just LOVE to sell $13K M16s to LEO agencies.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 3:54:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dracster:
I do. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I bet if one were to look close enough at the definition of "corruption", the govt. passing laws that it is exempt from fits right into it. Besides, I bet Colt would just LOVE to sell $13K M16s to LEO agencies.


I am sure Colt would too.
In the meantime, go ahead and tell your politicians you want to be taxed more to pay more taxes. I'm sure they'll get right on that.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:37:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Everyone has rights, whether they are citizens or not. You can't say that its ok to use a certain tool on non-citizens but not citizens.



Well, there are basic human rights, and there are Constitutional rights granted by the U.S. Constitution.
Should someone sneaking across the border to get a job be sniped from 600 yards? No.
Should uniformed military personnel making an unauthorized excursion onto U.S. soil be blown to bits by whatever means necessary? After diplomatic avenues are exhausted, yes.
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