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Posted: 3/11/2005 6:33:08 AM EST
So this morning I hear my dogs going off around 4:30am, I grab a 12 guage pump shotgun and cell phone and go hit my "panic button" which turns on all my security lights (in and outdoor) and approach the door which starts banging loudly. I yell "Who is it?" and hear "Sheriffs department, open the door". I go take a look at my security monitor and sure enough it looks like a couple LEO's with uniforms and badges. OK, I start thinking, what the fuck could I have done to justify a early morning raid, I come up with zilch since I'm a law abiding citizen. So I open the door a little (hiding shotgun) and the deputies want to see my brother in law (my wife's younger brother, lives with us, has downs syndrome, and we are in a legal battle for his guardianship against her older coke-addict brother who did not care for him properly and wasted all his brother's money). I tell them that he is sleeping like most decent people at this hour and asked what is this about? They needed to see him in person to give him a court subpeona. I asked, do you realize what time it is, why the hell can't you come at more decent time, hey I was cranky. So I told them to wait a sec, waked up the brother in law and they served the subpeona, and in the end all was well, no dogs or deputies were shot, but damn, they gotta do this shit at 4:30am??? Well I guess they expect most people will be home at that hour. End of rant.


Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:34:30 AM EST
Did the dog live?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:36:30 AM EST
Don't think I would have opened the door for that one.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:36:58 AM EST
Probably ordered by supervisors to serve it immediately. Don't hold it against the messenger,in this case a couple of deputies.
*post contains personal opinion only*
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:49:19 AM EST
I used to serve court papers. Never tried to serve during sleeping hours. If they wanted to play games, we made short work of it. I was usually able to convince them that they didn't want me to get mixed up in their lives. I got pretty good at shoving papers thru an inch wide opening after I ID'd the individual.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:50:12 AM EST
Having worked with special olympics for several years. I do not see where that was legal service of a subpoena. His legal guardian or parent would have to be served. He cannot be held responsible for appearing being a downs kid.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:08:18 AM EST
They always show up early in the Morning. My ex has sent me enough subpoenas that I ought to know. Fortunately I have moved and the only place she knows to serve now is at my attorney's office.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:08:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Batman3697:
Having worked with special olympics for several years. I do not see where that was legal service of a subpoena. His legal guardian or parent would have to be served. He cannot be held responsible for appearing being a downs kid.



That's exactly what I thought, they should be serving papers to my wife rather than her little brother - makes no sense to me. But the subpeona does say that he needs to appear in court on April blah, blah blah. Very strange. I would guess that they want him in court as well since the judge may decide to give him back to the drug-addict older brother (not likely, but possible I guess).

Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:24:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:38:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Batman3697:
Having worked with special olympics for several years. I do not see where that was legal service of a subpoena. His legal guardian or parent would have to be served. He cannot be held responsible for appearing being a downs kid.


What he said.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:42:18 AM EST
if someone wants to serve me or anyone in my residence at 4:30am, they're going to need flash bangs.

Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:45:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By deej86:

Originally Posted By Batman3697:
Having worked with special olympics for several years. I do not see where that was legal service of a subpoena. His legal guardian or parent would have to be served. He cannot be held responsible for appearing being a downs kid.


What he said.



I doubt the Deputies serving the subpeona know anything about the subjects condition. However, serving subpeonas at 0430 is rude and unprofessional. I would have told them to come back at a reasonable hour.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:47:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:04:14 AM EST
So, how much sleep did you get the rest of the night?

Kharn
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:07:39 AM EST
"Whos your supervisor, Its 4:30 in the morning. Come back at a reasonable time"


Link Posted: 3/11/2005 1:42:34 PM EST
The Texas CCP commands officers "to serve all warrants and civil process that come to hand." It is not a discretionary authority, it must be done. There are no set hours in the CCP for serving papers. They probably got dispatched to the call and had no real choice in the matter. There is also no provision that I know of for substitute service of a person who has been adjudicated mentally defective or deficient by the state, and the Deputies probably had no way of knowing his state, anyhow.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 1:55:34 PM EST
If you dont mind me asking... what was he served for?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:01:05 PM EST
0430 is pretty late, or early, depending on your lifestyle.

Better to do that type of thing between 0730 & 2200.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:03:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
0430 is pretty late, or early, depending on your lifestyle.

Better to do that type of thing between 0730 & 2200.



That's what I've been told.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:03:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By natez:
The Texas CCP commands officers "to serve all warrants and civil process that come to hand." It is not a discretionary authority, it must be done. There are no set hours in the CCP for serving papers. They probably got dispatched to the call and had no real choice in the matter. There is also no provision that I know of for substitute service of a person who has been adjudicated mentally defective or deficient by the state, and the Deputies probably had no way of knowing his state, anyhow.



I seriously doubt it "came to hand" at 4 am.

It was likely promugated the prior business day during normal hours.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:04:28 PM EST
Hell, probably had to do it then-------after all, Krispy Kreme opens at 5:00 AM.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:05:04 PM EST
I was subpoenaed once.....as a youth for being stupid..............anyway..........its at their discretion I am sure.....for situations like this - the GOOD public relations image would imply during normal waking hours.......bad ju-ju that early unless you are doing a raid in my opinion. Good PR shouldnt be the focus of your local LE - however it DOES go a long way........people are more likely to help local LE if they have a certain level of respect for them - meaning a professional demeanor.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:49:59 PM EST
Never ask "Who is it" when some one is beating at your door. Developh a method for finding out who is at the door without them knowing. don't forget you don't have to open your door because some one on the other end says "open the door."
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 3:17:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
if someone wants to serve me or anyone in my residence at 4:30am, they're going to need flash bangs.






i agree.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 3:34:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By APBullet:
Never ask "Who is it" when some one is beating at your door. Developh a method for finding out who is at the door without them knowing. don't forget you don't have to open your door because some one on the other end says "open the door."



I agree.

Just because my telephone or door bell is ringing doesn't mean I HAVE to answer it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 3:41:15 PM EST
Shitty SOP if you ask me.................its just asking for problems...........f##king idiots - thank God nothing bad happened due to stupid policy........
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 3:51:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By APBullet:
Never ask "Who is it" when some one is beating at your door. Developh a method for finding out who is at the door without them knowing. don't forget you don't have to open your door because some one on the other end says "open the door."



Sounds like a good policy, but what's wrong with asking who it is? I don't have nightvision cameras monitoring my doorstep. Peephole and tired, cranky "who the fuck are you?!" is how I've dealt with it.

Normally it's just my drunk neighbor trying to figure out why the key to his aparmtent won't work on my door. I usually find a puke present on the stoop the next morning.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 4:55:05 PM EST
Actually that would be a good time for me -- my wife and I are up then...
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:17:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Probably ordered by supervisors to serve it immediately. Don't hold it against the messenger,in this case a couple of deputies.
*post contains personal opinion only*



They were just following orders.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:32:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Probably ordered by supervisors to serve it immediately. Don't hold it against the messenger,in this case a couple of deputies.
*post contains personal opinion only*



They were just following orders.



More like "it was in the pending calls queue and dropped on them at that time." Our CAD has a "Delay Call" feature. You are going along, and things are copacetic, and the regular evening craziness has finally subsided, and then a bunch of calls (usually warrant service calls) that day shift didn't get around to handling drop into the "pending calls" screen and start getting assigned to folks.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:33:05 PM EST
[Jules]**The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.[ /Jules]


OR

[Jules]**I thought you said you were gonna be cool. Now when you yell at me, it makes me nervous. And when I get nervous, I get scared. And when motherfuckers get scared, that's when motherfuckers accidentally get shot. But I don't want that. And you don't want that. And RingoJBT here *definitely* doesn't want that***[Jules]
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 11:46:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By natez:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Probably ordered by supervisors to serve it immediately. Don't hold it against the messenger,in this case a couple of deputies.
*post contains personal opinion only*



They were just following orders.



More like "it was in the pending calls queue and dropped on them at that time." Our CAD has a "Delay Call" feature. You are going along, and things are copacetic, and the regular evening craziness has finally subsided, and then a bunch of calls (usually warrant service calls) that day shift didn't get around to handling drop into the "pending calls" screen and start getting assigned to folks.


Natez, you may be right.
Dport, thats how a chain of command works.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 11:54:16 AM EST
You offered them breakfast, right?
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:20:16 PM EST
speaking as a 33 year officer, 15 of which were as a Chief. I can only advise you that you should have DEMANDED a supervisor at once...When he arrived, had him call his supervisor, and if still not satisfied, showed up as the next commission or governing board meeting...Sorry, and damned unprofessional behavior less some really justifiable cause.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:56:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By natez:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Probably ordered by supervisors to serve it immediately. Don't hold it against the messenger,in this case a couple of deputies.
*post contains personal opinion only*



They were just following orders.



More like "it was in the pending calls queue and dropped on them at that time." Our CAD has a "Delay Call" feature. You are going along, and things are copacetic, and the regular evening craziness has finally subsided, and then a bunch of calls (usually warrant service calls) that day shift didn't get around to handling drop into the "pending calls" screen and start getting assigned to folks.


Natez, you may be right.
Dport, thats how a chain of command works.



I am intimately familiar with the concept behind the chain of command. I have been in the military officer and enlisted for 12 years.

Of couse, just following orders got some Nazis the hangman's noose. I also know there are ways of executing orders without being an ass.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:06:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 2:10:43 PM EST by jrzy]

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
"Who is it?" and hear "Sheriffs department, open the door".



Them: "Sheriffs department, open the door"

Me:Do you have warrant?

Them: "No a subpoena"

Me: FUCK YOU, and good night to you!

They say open the door like you have to obey every word uttered by them.
Fuck that and fuck them for serving a subpoena at that ungodly hour.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:18:43 PM EST
Simple method? Don't answer the door. They sure as Hell won't break in to serve him. Don't answer the phone that time of morning either if you don't want them to know you are home.

And I don't care whose CAD says what, 0430 sucks for service on stuff like this and should not be allowed unless other means have been tried and failed.

Now 0630 or so...maybe.
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