What is your guys position on it? I have become sexually active within the last month or so with my girlfriend, and I don't honestly have a guilty conscience about it. I have read bible verses that say that sinners, including "fornicators" will never make it to heaven. So, I'm just curious as to what you guys think about when it comes to sexual immorality and its impact on salvation.

If you have to ask, it is probably wrong...

That advice has answered many a "is this right..." questions regarding right and wrong.

That being said, I aint gonna cast "stones"

Don't forget the woman Jesus found in sin. Of course after chastising the folks throwing rocks, he told her...


...go and sin no more.

Remember that. Repentance is real. But Jesus told her not to do it anymore...

Yeah, "if you have to ask, its probably wrong..."

Good luck, brother.

Are you a Christian?

I view sex as something that constitutes marriage!  In the eyes of God you have married this girl...

IMO:

If you are asking, then you DO have a guilty conscience. However, nothing wrong with that, sometimes it takes awhile to get to know someone before even the remote thought of marriage comes to mind. Its my opinion that as long as your faithful you are on the right track and have nothing to worry about (other than pre-martial pregnacy- use a condom!)

If you follow the Bible then sex before marriage is wrong

And before you ask yes my wife and I were virgins on our wedding night

But not for long

Kid

Pre-marital sex steals something that was sacred... God made sex, so yeah, it's good and great... when done as He designed it.  Outside of his design and you'll run into problems..  For me, having premarital sex created a false 'love' in a relationship.  If I was to take sex out of the relationship, well... there wasn't anything there to build a serious relationship on.  Sadly, many people don't own up to the concequences of sex outside (and even inside) of marriage... that's why 1000's of unborn children are murdered everyday, it's why STD's are transmitted from multiple partners... not to mention the emotional damage should sexually active people breakup, then start having sex with someone else in another relationship... it goes on and on... but that isn't new, just look at Sodom & Gomorrah... they got so twisted that it was a city full of homosexual men - and I imagine lesbians and all other sorts of sexually perverted minds.  But it had to start somewhere in the beginning then snowball.  I'm NOT in ANY WAY saying your going to turn gay if you get bored with your girlfriend!!  But what I AM saying is that there was a design what was broken that lead down a darker path.   Basically, as per scripture  - It's wrong in God's design and eyes to have sex outside marriage.  I did, and I regret it.  But the moment I fell at His feet and gave my life over to Him, I was celibate for 4 LONG years until my wedding night, 13 years ago.... and she was a virgin and we held out until that night.  And sex with her (getting personal) doesn't get boring!  She rocks my world and knows how to please her man!  A true Proverbs 31 wife.  I couldn't be any more blessed and I pray my 3 girls (all under 5) will remain virtueous like their mommy until their wedding day, and I also pray that the men the Lord brings them to will also be of a pure Godly heart.

But a Christiain saying you're doing wrong and pointing fingers is not what we should be about, but we can't also ignore the consequences of it either... like abortion.  Only the Lord can show you what's right in your heart.  What I can say is that He loves you and cares for you and your girlfriend very much, even unto death, so that your sin (our sin) won't condem us to eternal hell, but instead be gathered to Him.  His Grace is amazing, we ALL deserve nothing but the fire, but He, through Jesus, chose to interceed and save us who call on Him as Lord and Savior of our hearts.  I'm far from being perfect, but I know He can use me in my weakest moments to perform the most amazing tasks for His glory.  Give Him a try, open the scriptures and read Matthew or John... see what He did for you and listen w/you heart.  I think you'll find the answer your looking for.... in fact I know it!

Well, im not religious, so I personally don't see any problem with it.  As long as your safe then i see no issue.

Repent...and "go and sin no more."


It was meant to be kept within the bonds of matrimony.  There it is edifying, unifying, and a romping good time.  Keep it the way The Lord intended it to be used (between a husband and wife) and you will avoid a lot of heartache.

Don't worry about it, man.  I'm sure God has some bigger fish to fry than those of us who have sex out of wedlock.

Give me chastity and give me constancy, but do not give it yet.- St. Augustine

I think the Bible is quite clear on sexual sin. It is a sin period. You will always be able to find someone, somewhere, who is both a bigger sinner than you, and will assure you that your specific sin is “no big deal”. Let me assure you, sin is a big deal to God, which brings us to your last statement. It is because of sin that we need a savior in the first place. God is so serious about it that He would ordain His Son to die for it in our place.

So, instead of asking us to justify your actions I would ask God. He is the one offended by our sin not us. Based on your question to us, I would ask, “ LORD, I know that your word says that sex out of marriage is sinful, I have been doing this and I don’t feel guilty about it. Please help me to understand how this is going to affect my salvation.” Then study His word. See what it says about continuing in sin. Be ready to change if you feel convicted.

Finally, I am not a perfect person. I sin. When I find myself sinning I’m not happy about it. If I find myself becoming nonchalant about a sin it scares me. I hope that it scares you too. God bless, and I will pray for you.

According to Reform Judiasm, if you plan to be married, it is ok. I would like to see the passages, I would assume in the NT that say it is a sin?

Romans 6:12-20 comes to mind. Other posters would be correct in saying that if you join in sex you become one flesh (married). So in God’s eyes the op is now married. If they were to break up for any reason besides desertion or infidelity, they would then become adulterers with whom ever they were with. If infidelity was the case, the one cheating would be guilty of adultery and the other would have grounds to give a certificate of divorce

.Edit: Sorry I meant to post both of these thoughts and pulled the trigger early.

1Co 7:8  To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am.
1Co 7:9  But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

If you go all the way back to the OT, sex was not a sin. Homosexuality was a sin, as was adultery (sex with someone other than your spouse when married). Remember that adultery is harmful and hurtful in many ways.

It's my opinion that sex prior to marriage is OK from an OT point of view. Less so from a NT point of view.

There were biblical characters that had sex with prostitutes, Sampson comes to mind. He visits with a prostitute, and it's OK.

Franklin

I'm not religious, but I have to say that there's something to the idea of no sex before marriage.  Of course in reality, unless you get married very early in life or are very ugly, it's kinda hard to accomplish in the real world.  That being said, I think limiting your sexual partner count reaps some pretty realistic benefits in the long run, both in terms of health risks and long-term psychological factors.  It's better to avoid sleeping with anyone you don't plan on being with for at least a good long while if you can.  The whole issue here is that sexuality raises the level of intimacy between two people to a whole new level.  It deepens a relationship whether it's one you want deepened or not.  Too many sexual relationships coming and going throughout your life can wreak havoc emotionally in the long run.

Jesus died for all of your sins, even the ones you have not yet committed.  This doesn't mean you have free reign to sin all you want and get away with it, but rather that you should repent and stop sinning.  Obviously, being human you'll sin again, as we all do...

And if you do decide to break up, it makes the experience much worse because of that intimacy which you are now leaving. It is a commitment to the other person. It shoes that you give everything to that person. If you do it randomly and with whoever, are you really giving your true love to them? How can you after you have done it with someone else? It's like saying

"No YOU are the one I want to stay with forever."

"But what about the myriads of other women you said the same thing to?"

"Well, ermm..no this time I really mean it."

See? It lessens the meaning of sex. It means that you are really only doing it for yourself to get pleasure. If that's the case, you are totally and completely taking advantage of the other person.  It doesn't take religion to see that that is a bad thing. It causes a LOT of bad effects in the long run. What if she gets pregnant? There are others too. But the biggest one is that it makes your marriage, assuming you marry, less meaningful. You gave yourself to someone else, so how can you love your spouse completely and give your life to them? Even if it's the same person who you had sex with, doesn't it feel like you married because of that experience? You need to marry for other reasons.

You don't need to look at it in a moral sense to see that it's a bad idea.

Uh, I just got through reading about Abraham, I don't remember the wedding part.  I think people just took each other to be man and wife by mutual agreement.  Not a lot of focus on Noah's wedding ceremony either.

Basically, if a man and a woman live together and specifically intend to keep sex between themselves, excluding others...  then they are making "one flesh," and they are married.  No ceremony necessary.

Whatever warnings come later are probably towards those who abuse the gift of sex.  If you are having sex before some governmental organization or church organization stamps it, that doesn't mean you are sinning.  Only the commands of g*d count, and I don't recall many instructions regarding invitations, ministers, marriage licenses, etc.  Just a command to be together.

All of the Commandment are laws and none are more important than the other.  If you sin. you sin and it doesn't matter who sinned more.

Ok in my book...

This kind of ties in with my problem that I've been having with this fundamentalist church group I've been attending. According to them, since I was baptized as a baby, I wasn't actually baptized and am damned. After two weeks of attending their bible studies, they have basically given up on me because I won't "repent and be baptized." I haven't done it for a few reasons. One, I don't think that I'm damned. Two, I don't think that the physical baptism is what saves you. And three, I know that I should stop having sex if I want to be rebaptized, but lack the will/desire to stop, and realize that it would be bad to be baptized and not mean it. Plus, these guys believe a whole bunch of stuff that I was never taught growing up.

"Missionary", mainly because the irony is amusing to me.

TRG

Oh wow!

I've been cramming all morning for a huge test this afternoon, so that just made my day!

There is no "Thou shalt not bump uglies before an agent of the state says you can" commandment.  And the commandments were written before birth control.  

CC, Just be responsible, use a rubber, and have fun.

Don't mistake what the Bible reports for what the Bible approves.

I have one more sin related question. In the last six months or so, I've started smoking pipes and cigars. I smoke my pipe about once a day, and a cigar a few times a month. According to this fundamentalist church group, this falls under the sin of "witchcraft" which I assume includes mind altering drugs. They claim that anyone who doesn't try to quit is sinning. This is something I've never heard from any church group before.

Check the OT again...

Sex before marriage with a woman who was not engaged or married to someone else was a 'minor' sin (eg not meriting stoning) that required the offender to pay the woman's father a fine, marry her, and NEVER divorce her....

That's out of whack...

Smoking and drug use is not 'witchcraft', and responsible use of alcohol is widely described throughout the Bible (the theme being: drinking isn't a sin - getting drunk is)....

However, your body is to be a living temple to God.... One might consider the use of harmful recreational drugs (such as tobacco) to be defiling said temple....

Further, the Bible commands you to obey the law of the civil authorities under which you live, so that means that illegal drug use is a sin simply because it is illegal.

That's pretty much the Catholic view on it––and mine as well.

No offense of course, but your church has a lot about it that I disagree with (not baptized=damned forever for example). Of course, I am a Catholic so my view will always be from that perspective.

Yeah man, keep it real and keep it safe.   Not having sex before marriage is like buying a car without a test drive.  If you didn't take it on the road and go throught the gears at least one time, you will have nobody to blame but yourself when it overheats, the brakes lock, and the wheels fall off.

A woman is like a car? An object?

Sure...why not?

We can always go back to marrying at age 12 or 13 - as in biblical times - and cure that pre marital sex problem.
5sub

If you are not married to her then it is sin.

Really sounds like this church is preaching salvation by works and being good.... witchcraft?  That's a new one on me.  I've heard the body being the trmple of the spirit (if christain) and you shouldn't defile the temple with... immoral sex, drugs, alcohol, tatoos, salt, butter, bath and body works lotions... I've heard some far out stuff.  But, if you smoke/chew, you 'may' get mouth/throat cancer earlier in age... it's what the surgeon general says anyway...   The simple fact is everyone sins and will continue to do so.  But the outlook that's its OK to deliberatly sin (whilw knowing it) and keep on doing it... that's what you'll have to answer for the day you stand before the throne.  Honestly, I'd be ashamed of the crap I do and what runs through my mind...
remember, salvation is a gift, not by works.... but it isn't a free-play pass to do whatever the hell you want to do either.  There's ALWAYS consequences for actions.... good and bad alike.

Oh boy this is too much.....Religion is a means of control, in Judiasm we have mystic resources, Jesus also was a mystic, where do you think his miracles came from, yes, I know 'from G*d' but the source of Jewish mysticism is also form G*d.
The Druids and the Jews that fled to the Celtic Lands, entered into a mutual relationship. They actually had many common grounds and theories go that Judiasm evolved from a common source as Druidism.

Which ever one she let me get away with.

You rate what you skate, CC.

That is to say, don't mess with crime if you can't do the time.

I say, ride until she bucks you or you don't ride at all.

No commandment against fornication?  Try "Thou shalt not commit adultery" - biblical adultery is sex with someone to whom you are not married.  It does not apply only to those who are already married.

A "test drive"?  That theory might hold water if the divorce rate wasn't so high between those who "test drive" and so low between those who don't "test drive".

As long as you leave the farm animals out I think you will be ok....

I am not married but have been living with my fiancee for 7 years and we have a kid together.

! If you can live with someone for 7 years and have a kid with them, why not just get married?

Thats' what I say... you might be technically married with the common-law terms... depends on what state you reside in.  Why be engaged if not following through?  7yrs should be long enough foreplay don't ya think?  I had an friend who was killed in the line of duty (police), his fiance of 9yrs had to jump through a lot of legal crap to get what shoud've been her's as he didn't have a will.  Was just a lot of bad stuff having to deal with right after losing her sould mate.

Biblically, sex IS marriage . . .

That's why you should always wait until after marriage to start reading the Bible . . .

My point was that marriage now ain't the same as it was then.  It was a covenant between a man, woman and God, not a man, woman, and some asshole with a license.  I don't really care for the test drive analogy though.  The best sex I have had came from women that I was completely mentally incompatible with.  

If rubbing one off still a sin?

My church?

Or are you talking to the OP?

(I'm not a baptist, BTW - I'm an evangelical/non-denom... And no, we don't believe that not baptized=damned - we beieve that you repent first, are forgiven, and are THEN baptized as an expression of your faith & rebirth...)

It's not about an agent of the state...

It's about not having sex until married in front of God, (eg in church - (and I don't mean the pointy-roofed building, either))... It's about a recognized commitment in front of God & your community to be husband & wife - a promise to God & each other....

Here in the US, we just happen to do both legal and sacramental marriage in the same ceremony...

If there was no government, that would not make God's commands in the area of sexual morality moot.

Short answer for you as a Christian, it is sin, no that won't cost you your salvation.

Like a prior reply, if ya gotta ask, it probably is. I am no better than the next guy. I have lived with different girls 3 different times. I didn't want to live how the Bible taught so I became agnostic. It took a complete emotional breakdown before I fully surrendered to Christ. I met what is now my wife and prior relationships creep into my mind now and then and contaminates the great relationship we have. Don't search for justification for doing what you already know is not right in God's eyes as I did and still find myself doing.

Don

It's not a sin as long as you are bonded by love. Marriage was never supposed to be a state captured event with fees and documents. It was the word in it's truest form, a uniting. If you're spiritually united in love it is no sin. In fact it is amazing.