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Posted: 6/6/2008 12:58:35 PM EDT
We are 5 months from the election, and I am really worried about what we're going to do about Iran. I find it unacceptable that the current administration is allowing this Iranian nuke threat to stew, as well as allowing Iran to arm and train terrorists that are killing our troops in Iraq. I honestly cannot comprehend how Bush is allowing Iran to continue it's present activity without the US taking military action against Iran.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 12:59:49 PM EDT
Probably because a very capable ally of ours is about to do it instead.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:01:03 PM EDT
2 things...






jack and shit...
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:02:34 PM EDT

Quoted:
2 things...






jack and shit...


Nah, we won't do shit.

Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:04:42 PM EDT
I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:05:54 PM EDT

Quoted:
Probably because a very capable ally of ours is about to do it instead.



People have been saying that about Israel for YEARS. I'm not buying it anymore. In addition, why are we waiting? Our troops are dying as a direct result of Iran's actions.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:05:55 PM EDT

Quoted:
Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US.


Hmm I think I see a way out of this


BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:13:41 PM EDT

Quoted:
I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.



It's not our problem that Iran is responsible for many of our troop deaths in Iraq?

China and Korea are not comprised of millions of psychopaths that WANT TO DIE for their cause. One thing we can be sure of is that radical Muslims would sacrifice millions of their own to set off a nuke inside the US or Israel. All it takes is ONE boat to make it into a US harbor and then detonate a nuke, and life as you know it in the good ole USA will change forever.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:27:16 PM EDT
I think that down the road, we'll have to intervene militarily or facilitate an iranian regime change. Where I go to school, we have alot of kids that are persian/Arab, and many people who are in families that were Iranians prior to the  fall of the Shah and now live somewhere else all of whom state that the peoples voice is much different than that of their government at the moment.

The Iranians are building nuclear weapons to counter the threats of the United States and Israel. The problem with the building of a nuclear arsenal and its control is the fact that diplomacy is only a stall in keeping them under control, ultimately countries do what they want. I foresee two possibilities in terms of what will happen with Iran:

1) Regime change. Since the fall of the Shah, the actions and stances of the Iranian government have been very out of sync with the majority of the population. As the country gets wealthier and wealthier based on oil revenue, the citizenry may call for more freedoms and civil liberties. People who have it good don't want a war or fight that risks loosing what they've acquired. The US help facilitate this.

2) War. Diplomacy with hostile countries in terms of nuclear weapons has really failed to succeed. Look at north Korea. Since 2000, Kim Jung Il has been on and off with his weapons programs. What he does is make demands to the UN/US in exchange for stopping his program (food/financial aid). He ultimately gets his wish, then stops creating weapons until he needs his foreign aid upped again. Iran doesn't want foreign aid, but the downfall of the US and Israel, and the only real bargaining chip we have with them is the re-opening of trade...but do we want to make The Ayatollahs' Iran wealthy?  The major downside to this is the human cost. Financially, it would be an enormous burden, but the number of our Men & Women that would be lost in an invasion of Iran are predicted to be  high....which makes this a very undesirable situation.

If we pursue diplomacy, we will ultimately get nowhere. Caving into any demands tells the developing world that if the build a nuclear weapon, the US will listen to them out of fear. That is not a signal to send to countries like Somalia, Libya, Zimbabwe, and Venezuela...as it would possibly entice them to acquire/begin to produce weapons only to continue weapons production. We can send in UN inspectors, but they're about as effective as the AU in Somalia, and Iran would probably do the same thing Iraq did with WMDs right after the gulf war...hide them or prohibit the UN from going into certain areas.

Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:29:16 PM EDT

Quoted:
I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.


What concerns me is them giving a nuke to some wacko terrorist organization, and them smuggling it into the US.  So yes, it is our problem.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:29:26 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.



It's not our problem that Iran is responsible for many of our troop deaths in Iraq?

China and Korea are not comprised of millions of psychopaths that WANT TO DIE for their cause. One thing we can be sure of is that radical Muslims would sacrifice millions of their own to set off a nuke inside the US or Israel. All it takes is ONE boat to make it into a US harbor and then detonate a nuke, and life as you know it in the good ole USA will change forever.


OK so we can prove all insurgents are Iranian? 100% proof positive. Look its been said before we as a nation with technology can't stop illegals entering this country in broad daylight, yet Iran is supposed to stop people from leaving their country? All assumptions of Iran are biased at best. Iranain insurgents are = to Iraqi WMDs. May not be the actual truth.

ETA if the flood of insurgents from Iran is so much of a threat how come we haven't tried to secure the border. Or increase the amount of flights of Preditor or Global Hawk? Or bring the fight to them as they try and cross into Iraq? Iraqi army should be capable of denfending the border towns and crossings.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:31:49 PM EDT

Quoted:
I think that down the road, we'll have to intervene militarily or facilitate an iranian regime change. Where I go to school, we have alot of kids that are persian/Arab, and many people who are in families that were Iranians prior to the  fall of the Shah and now live somewhere else all of whom state that the peoples voice is much different than that of their government at the moment.

The Iranians are building nuclear weapons to counter the threats of the United States and Israel. The problem with the building of a nuclear arsenal and its control is the fact that diplomacy is only a stall in keeping them under control, ultimately countries do what they want. I foresee two possibilities in terms of what will happen with Iran:

1) Regime change. Since the fall of the Shah, the actions and stances of the Iranian government have been very out of sync with the majority of the population. As the country gets wealthier and wealthier based on oil revenue, the citizenry may call for more freedoms and civil liberties. People who have it good don't want a war or fight that risks loosing what they've acquired. The US help facilitate this.

2) War. Diplomacy with hostile countries in terms of nuclear weapons has really failed to succeed. Look at north Korea. Since 2000, Kim Jung Il has been on and off with his weapons programs. What he does is make demands to the UN/US in exchange for stopping his program (food/financial aid). He ultimately gets his wish, then stops creating weapons until he needs his foreign aid upped again. Iran doesn't want foreign aid, but the downfall of the US and Israel, and the only real bargaining chip we have with them is the re-opening of trade...but do we want to make The Ayatollahs' Iran wealthy?  The major downside to this is the human cost. Financially, it would be an enormous burden, but the number of our Men & Women that would be lost in an invasion of Iran are predicted to be  high....which makes this a very undesirable situation.

If we pursue diplomacy, we will ultimately get nowhere. Caving into any demands tells the developing world that if the build a nuclear weapon, the US will listen to them out of fear. That is not a signal to send to countries like Somalia, Libya, Zimbabwe, and Venezuela...as it would possibly entice them to acquire/begin to produce weapons only to continue weapons production. We can send in UN inspectors, but they're about as effective as the AU in Somalia, and Iran would probably do the same thing Iraq did with WMDs right after the gulf war...hide them or prohibit the UN from going into certain areas.




What about bombing Iran without an invasion? That's my choice.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:34:35 PM EDT
My guess is:  We'll know the answer within 90 days.  If nothing's happened by then, then it's clearly not going to.

No one but the Administration knows...we can speculate, but no one outside the leadership knows for sure.

HH

Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:34:41 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.



It's not our problem that Iran is responsible for many of our troop deaths in Iraq?

China and Korea are not comprised of millions of psychopaths that WANT TO DIE for their cause. One thing we can be sure of is that radical Muslims would sacrifice millions of their own to set off a nuke inside the US or Israel. All it takes is ONE boat to make it into a US harbor and then detonate a nuke, and life as you know it in the good ole USA will change forever.


OK so we can prove all insurgents are Iranian? 100% proof positive. Look its been said before we as a nation with technology can't stop illegals entering this country in broad daylight, yet Iran is supposed to stop people from leaving their country? All assumptions of Iran are biased at best. Iranain insurgents are = to Iraqi WMDs. May not be the actual truth.



Who said "all insurgents are Iranians"? Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that the govt of Iran supports terrorism and that they are helping insurgents kill our troops in Iraq?
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:36:50 PM EDT
I think thats a great idea, except someone will need to go in and help facilitate law and order and train someone to rise up against the radical military units (rev. guard). If we could go back and do everything all over again, I think we should've gotten Saddam to invade Iran and given him air support, but hindsight is always 20/20. The sooner we act the better....Iran is making billions off of the western world everyday...
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:38:11 PM EDT
NOPE, none in my mind. Didnt our military find proof, I thought something about the IED's......
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:38:29 PM EDT
Lay out your plan.  What do you think should be done?



Quoted:
We are 5 months from the election, and I am really worried about what we're going to do about Iran. I find it unacceptable that the current administration is allowing this Iranian nuke threat to stew, as well as allowing Iran to arm and train terrorists that are killing our troops in Iraq. I honestly cannot comprehend how Bush is allowing Iran to continue it's present activity without the US taking military action against Iran.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:39:45 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.



It's not our problem that Iran is responsible for many of our troop deaths in Iraq?

China and Korea are not comprised of millions of psychopaths that WANT TO DIE for their cause. One thing we can be sure of is that radical Muslims would sacrifice millions of their own to set off a nuke inside the US or Israel. All it takes is ONE boat to make it into a US harbor and then detonate a nuke, and life as you know it in the good ole USA will change forever.


OK so we can prove all insurgents are Iranian? 100% proof positive. Look its been said before we as a nation with technology can't stop illegals entering this country in broad daylight, yet Iran is supposed to stop people from leaving their country? All assumptions of Iran are biased at best. Iranain insurgents are = to Iraqi WMDs. May not be the actual truth.



Who said "all insurgents are Iranians"? Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that the govt of Iran supports terrorism and that they are helping insurgents kill our troops in Iraq?


OK so does Syria, Lebanon, Jordan,Oman,Yemen,Somalia,Djibouti,Eygpt need any more muslim countries that dislike the U.S.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:40:23 PM EDT
Nothing, this country is nutless from the top down.

We're at the Caligula stage of the Roman Empire right now.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:44:19 PM EDT

Quoted:
I think thats a great idea, except someone will need to go in and help facilitate law and order and train someone to rise up against the radical military units (rev. guard). If we could go back and do everything all over again, I think we should've gotten Saddam to invade Iran and given him air support, but hindsight is always 20/20. The sooner we act the better....Iran is making billions off of the western world everyday...



I am not for an invasion of Iran. I think our best option is to bomb the shit out of their nuke facilities to knock em back a few years, and destroy a huge portion of their military capabilities. The overreaching message to Iran after doing this will be, don't develop nukes and stop supporting terrorism. If you don't stop we're gonna bomb your ass again and next time we might bomb some of your infrastructure. I think that's the best we can hope for. Because once Iran gets nukes, everything changes and we'll have to kiss their azz for the next 100 years.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:48:41 PM EDT
How many nuke and military facilities do you think they have?  Do you think they are right there above ground with no protection?

It isn't a matter of 20 planes flying 1 bombing run and all of a sudden Iran is back in the stone age.  


Quoted:
I think our best option is to bomb the shit out of their nuke facilities to knock em back a few years, and destroy a huge portion of their military capabilities.  
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:49:16 PM EDT

Quoted:
We are 5 months from the election, and I am really worried about what we're going to do about Iran. I find it unacceptable that the current administration is allowing this Iranian nuke threat to stew, as well as allowing Iran to arm and train terrorists that are killing our troops in Iraq. I honestly cannot comprehend how Bush is allowing Iran to continue it's present activity without the US taking military action against Iran.


Because we've committed everything in Iraq and now face the choice between letting Iran sit, or pulling out of Iraq and listening to the world squeal at us when the Iraqis start to kill each other again?

My guess?  Air strikes within three months.  We're probably desperately trying to get "allies" to join us, and are frustrated to no end that we've spent all of that capital five years ago.  Besides Israel, I don't think anyone's going to be with us, even though Iran poses a real threat.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:50:38 PM EDT
  Iran is more capable of defending itself than Iraq ever was. And you think there is an insurgent problem now. You would have a 100 X the insurgents, the flood gates would be open so to speak and alot more troops will die. So if that is what everyone wants then, I'll be the I told ya so guy.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:52:17 PM EDT

Quoted:

OK so we can prove all insurgents are Iranian? 100% proof positive. Look its been said before we as a nation with technology can't stop illegals entering this country in broad daylight, yet Iran is supposed to stop people from leaving their country?




Very few insurgents are Iranian.  Lots are our "allies"... Saudi Arabians, Pakistanis, Afghanis, etc.  Lots more are Syrian, Jordanian, etc.

But Iran is arming and equipping them.  We find brand-new Iranian military hardware constantly.  Claims that, "Oh, stuff will just sort of slip out and make its' way to Iraq" wore thin a long time ago.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:52:58 PM EDT
telling them how angry they are,

and then writing a letter to tell them how angry they are.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:55:35 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.



It's not our problem that Iran is responsible for many of our troop deaths in Iraq?

China and Korea are not comprised of millions of psychopaths that WANT TO DIE for their cause. One thing we can be sure of is that radical Muslims would sacrifice millions of their own to set off a nuke inside the US or Israel. All it takes is ONE boat to make it into a US harbor and then detonate a nuke, and life as you know it in the good ole USA will change forever.


OK so we can prove all insurgents are Iranian? 100% proof positive. Look its been said before we as a nation with technology can't stop illegals entering this country in broad daylight, yet Iran is supposed to stop people from leaving their country? All assumptions of Iran are biased at best. Iranain insurgents are = to Iraqi WMDs. May not be the actual truth.



Who said "all insurgents are Iranians"? Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that the govt of Iran supports terrorism and that they are helping insurgents kill our troops in Iraq?


OK so does Syria, Lebanon, Jordan,Oman,Yemen,Somalia,Djibouti,Eygpt need any more muslim countries that dislike the U.S.



I do not agree with the strategy that we should not do the right thing because we make people not like us. They don't like us anyway and they never will. They want the world to be like it was 800 years ago, and we want to operate as a civilized society where all people have freedom and rights under law. We're never going to get along because of fundamental differences in religion and culture. The majority of the ME truly believes with every ounce of their existence that you should die if you don't believe what they believe. How are you gonna change that way of thinking?
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:57:11 PM EDT
Nobody is talking about invading Iran, however they should be bombed for several weeks.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 1:57:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:01:19 PM EDT

Quoted:
How many nuke and military facilities do you think they have?  Do you think they are right there above ground with no protection?

It isn't a matter of 20 planes flying 1 bombing run and all of a sudden Iran is back in the stone age.  


Quoted:
I think our best option is to bomb the shit out of their nuke facilities to knock em back a few years, and destroy a huge portion of their military capabilities.  




Whatever it takes. Are you telling me the USA can't destroy a good part of their nuke capabilities? Or we can keep on our "tough diplomacy" approach like we've been doing with Iran for 50 years, all the way until they give a nuke to a terrorist. Read up on the history of US imposed Iranian sanctions. It's been going on for 50 fucking years.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:04:44 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Probably because a very capable ally of ours is about to do it instead.



People have been saying that about Israel for YEARS. I'm not buying it anymore. In addition, why are we waiting? Our troops are dying as a direct result of Iran's actions.


Because a lot more troops would die if we were to do what would be necessary to stop it.

And we'd guarantee an Obama presidency and a giant mess he wouldn't deal with.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:06:20 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.



It's not our problem that Iran is responsible for many of our troop deaths in Iraq?

China and Korea are not comprised of millions of psychopaths that WANT TO DIE for their cause. One thing we can be sure of is that radical Muslims would sacrifice millions of their own to set off a nuke inside the US or Israel. All it takes is ONE boat to make it into a US harbor and then detonate a nuke, and life as you know it in the good ole USA will change forever.


OK so we can prove all insurgents are Iranian? 100% proof positive. Look its been said before we as a nation with technology can't stop illegals entering this country in broad daylight, yet Iran is supposed to stop people from leaving their country? All assumptions of Iran are biased at best. Iranain insurgents are = to Iraqi WMDs. May not be the actual truth.



Who said "all insurgents are Iranians"? Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that the govt of Iran supports terrorism and that they are helping insurgents kill our troops in Iraq?


OK so does Syria, Lebanon, Jordan,Oman,Yemen,Somalia,Djibouti,Eygpt need any more muslim countries that dislike the U.S.



I do not agree with the strategy that we should not do the right thing because we make people not like us. They don't like us anyway and they newer will. They want the world to be like it was 800 years ago, and we want to operate as a civilized society where all people have freedom and rights under law. We're never going to get along because of fundamental differences in religion and culture. The majority of the ME truly believes with every ounce of their existence that you should die if you don't believe what they believe. How are you gonna change that way of thinking?


Good point you can't change one's opinion about the other. But lets say at the work place a co-worker does not like you. Do you beat his ass because he doesn't agree with you. Have you made the work place a complete violent atmosphere. Or do you try and work together. My point is that we can't go around spending trillions of dollars bombing every muslim country because we don't see eye to eye. And as for the Iran supports terrorism,please provide the link that provides the information from the horses mouth. Please not Reuters, or the AP. I want un-biased proof that Iran supports terrorism.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:06:45 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
2 things...






jack and shit...


Nah, we won't do shit.



Yeah, and Jack is out to lunch.  
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:09:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:09:32 PM EDT

Quoted:
We are 5 months from the election, and I am really worried about what we're going to do about Iran. I find it unacceptable that the current administration is allowing this Iranian nuke threat to stew, as well as allowing Iran to arm and train terrorists that are killing our troops in Iraq. I honestly cannot comprehend how Bush is allowing Iran to continue it's present activity without the US taking military action against Iran.


 This sounds more like troll shit more than 1/2 the dorks accused of trolling.  We already have 18,000 threads of people wanting to bomb Iran and Iran will kill us and why haven't we nuked the middle east, yet.  

I see a recession, unemployment, layoffs, inflation, loss of personal rights, stupid shit on TV and news, but I have yet to radical Islam impact my community besides alot of chicken hawks drawing up support for more war by preaching fear.  9/11 happened and we still don't have the culprit but we got more and more bullshit here and abroad...
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:15:43 PM EDT
the only problem with just bombing iran is the shitstorm that follows. Terrorist attacks, criticism from EU, skyrocket in oil prices from what we're seeing now.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:16:59 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
  Iran is more capable of defending itself than Iraq ever was. And you think there is an insurgent problem now. You would have a 100 X the insurgents, the flood gates would be open so to speak and alot more troops will die. So if that is what everyone wants then, I'll be the I told ya so guy.

Based on what?
How is Iran so militarily superior to Iraq?
100X the insurgents?
Are Saudis, Jordanians, Syrian, Sunnis gonna fight to reinstate Shia mullahs?
What is the logisitical base for the insurgent fight in Iran.  Where are these 100s of insurgents gonna get their goodies to kill?
Iraq has a border with Iran and Syria.  Check out Iran's borders sometime.
What is an Iranian?  How many different religians and tribes make up Iran?

Keep talking out your ass, its the internet, so I can't smell it.

OK so where are all the insurgents coming from? You guys are saying Iran supports terrorism and they let insurgents pass through Iran. So Iran is just going to belly up and let us own them. You think this is going to be a walk in the park? WHAT ABOUT THE LAST FUCKING EIGHT YEARS BRO! WE HAVE THOUSANDS OF TROOPS DYING, GETTING THEIR FUCKING ASSES BLOWN OFF FROM IEDS AND FROM GUERILLA WARFARE TACTICS, BUT WE'RE WINNING A WAR, WITH WHO? YOU SIR NEED TO CHECK YOUR OWN SHORTS, SOME ONE IS FULL OF SHIT AND YES THE INTERNET BLOCKS THE SMELL!



Mission accomplished right buddy? We won, lets roll! FAIL in an epic disaster
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:21:21 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Good point you can't change one's opinion about the other. But lets say at the work place a co-worker does not like you. Do you beat his ass because he doesn't agree with you. Have you made the work place a complete violent atmosphere. Or do you try and work together. My point is that we can't go around spending trillions of dollars bombing every muslim country because we don't see eye to eye. And as for the Iran supports terrorism,please provide the link that provides the information from the horses mouth. Please not Reuters, or the AP. I want un-biased proof that Iran supports terrorism.

What a drama queen.
No matter what proof is supplied, you won't believe it.
We are bombing every muslim country?  Do you have a fucking clue how many muslim countries there are (and how many we are allied with?)
Skip it, you don't have a fucking clue period.

I don't mind liberals, I just hate how dramatic they are about everythings


Trillions!!#@!#!
EV­ERY MUSLIM COUNTRY
I WANT PROOF (but no matter who you link he won't believe)
OMGWTFBBQ

DOn't you have a new Britney Spears video to post on youtube?


hahha funny. Seriously so you believe we're winning a war right now?

war is hell, so don't go crying when shit doesn't work out the way it was supposed to.(Iraq 2003-present) And when we are all living in a shit hole broke fucking POS country I'll thank the war mongers for you. What ever who cares. Your right I'm wrong is that how this supposed to go. What ever, moving on.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:30:28 PM EDT

Quoted:
Based on what?
How is Iran so militarily superior to Iraq?


You can't honestly believe that Iran is as militarily weak as Iraq was in 2003.  Iraq had been at war non-stop since the 1980s.  They went from fighting Iran for 8 years to invading Kuwat getting their ass handed to them in Desert Storm.  From '91 to '03 Iraq was under severe sanctions while US and Britain operated with impunity over Iraq, bombing anything that was militarily significant.  We had extremely detailed knowledge of the terrain and conventional military force laydowns.

While Iran is not North Korea and I don't know much about their land forces, but they have significant access denial capabilities in the Gulf region.  They practice an integrated and probably very effective defense in depth using submarines, small boats, very capable fixed and mobile shore defense cruise missiles, and mines.  That alone is significant because of what closing the Gulf, even for a short period, would do to the price of oil.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:36:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:43:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:45:58 PM EDT
Prediction:

I predict that Israel and the US won't do anything in regards to Iran, until after the November election.  

If McCain wins, than I suspect that Israel will wait, and Iran will back down a bit.

If Obama wins, I suspect that Israel will attack, with our help, before Obama takes office.  

The only thing that makes me think otherwise is if Syria and Iran really push Israel this summer.  If they push hard enough, than Israel might jump the gun a bit.  


Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:47:22 PM EDT

Quoted:

The price of oil already reflects the possibilities of what Iran can do.  (Hence, speculation)
In conventional terms, regardless their capabilities, we would steam roll Iran's armed forces.   the question isn't the initial war.  The question is the follow up.  
Their denial capabilities really mean fuck and all when we are in Afganistan and Iraq and Turkey.  


The price of oil reflects and educated guess at the likelihood and ability of Iran to close the SoH.  If that likelihood increases, so will the price of oil.

As far as their denial capabilities, how does the overwhelming majority of logistics support arrive in Iraq?  How suited is the Turkish road and rail network to supporting the material needs of US forces?  
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:52:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 2:56:27 PM EDT

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I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.



It's not our problem that Iran is responsible for many of our troop deaths in Iraq?

China and Korea are not comprised of millions of psychopaths that WANT TO DIE for their cause. One thing we can be sure of is that radical Muslims would sacrifice millions of their own to set off a nuke inside the US or Israel. All it takes is ONE boat to make it into a US harbor and then detonate a nuke, and life as you know it in the good ole USA will change forever.


OK so we can prove all insurgents are Iranian? 100% proof positive. Look its been said before we as a nation with technology can't stop illegals entering this country in broad daylight, yet Iran is supposed to stop people from leaving their country? All assumptions of Iran are biased at best. Iranain insurgents are = to Iraqi WMDs. May not be the actual truth.



Who said "all insurgents are Iranians"? Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that the govt of Iran supports terrorism and that they are helping insurgents kill our troops in Iraq?


OK so does Syria, Lebanon, Jordan,Oman,Yemen,Somalia,Djibouti,Eygpt need any more muslim countries that dislike the U.S.



I do not agree with the strategy that we should not do the right thing because we make people not like us. They don't like us anyway and they newer will. They want the world to be like it was 800 years ago, and we want to operate as a civilized society where all people have freedom and rights under law. We're never going to get along because of fundamental differences in religion and culture. The majority of the ME truly believes with every ounce of their existence that you should die if you don't believe what they believe. How are you gonna change that way of thinking?


Good point you can't change one's opinion about the other. But lets say at the work place a co-worker does not like you. Do you beat his ass because he doesn't agree with you. Have you made the work place a complete violent atmosphere. Or do you try and work together. My point is that we can't go around spending trillions of dollars bombing every muslim country because we don't see eye to eye. And as for the Iran supports terrorism,please provide the link that provides the information from the horses mouth. Please not Reuters, or the AP. I want un-biased proof that Iran supports terrorism.




I can see you're a Obama supporter. Would Barack telling you himself that Iran supports terrorism be good enough for you? Well...here ya go:


From barackobama.com

Link


The Problem: Iran has sought nuclear weapons, supports militias inside Iraq and terror across the region, and its leaders threaten Israel and deny the Holocaust. But Obama believes that we have not exhausted our non-military options in confronting this threat; in many ways, we have yet to try them. That's why Obama stood up to the Bush administration's warnings of war, just like he stood up to the war in Iraq.


Diplomacy: Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions. Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama would offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation. Seeking this kind of comprehensive settlement with Iran is our best way to make progress.


Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 3:02:54 PM EDT

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Closing the Straights hurts Iran more than us.  Oil is part of our economy, its all of theirs.  We could survive it much better than they could.
The logisitcs support from Iraq, Turkey and Afganistan combined would be more than adequate.
If we can fight in the Pacific Theater in WWII, we can fight in Iran.
The fight isn't the problem, its the after that is problematic.  However, as I stated earlier.  Any Iranian insurgency would have to be supported internally.  Internally supported insurgencies RARELY succeed.
The Ho Chi Minh trail WASN'T in Vietnam


Doesn't 90% of the material arriving in Iraq come via sea, i.e. through the Gulf?
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 3:04:35 PM EDT
If they want a nuke, lets deliver one to them the old fashioned way.


ETA: Ok, maybe that's a bit harsh; however, something serious needs to be done sooner rather than later.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 3:12:23 PM EDT

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I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.



It's not our problem that Iran is responsible for many of our troop deaths in Iraq?

China and Korea are not comprised of millions of psychopaths that WANT TO DIE for their cause. One thing we can be sure of is that radical Muslims would sacrifice millions of their own to set off a nuke inside the US or Israel. All it takes is ONE boat to make it into a US harbor and then detonate a nuke, and life as you know it in the good ole USA will change forever.


OK so we can prove all insurgents are Iranian? 100% proof positive. Look its been said before we as a nation with technology can't stop illegals entering this country in broad daylight, yet Iran is supposed to stop people from leaving their country? All assumptions of Iran are biased at best. Iranain insurgents are = to Iraqi WMDs. May not be the actual truth.



Who said "all insurgents are Iranians"? Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that the govt of Iran supports terrorism and that they are helping insurgents kill our troops in Iraq?


OK so does Syria, Lebanon, Jordan,Oman,Yemen,Somalia,Djibouti,Eygpt need any more muslim countries that dislike the U.S.



I do not agree with the strategy that we should not do the right thing because we make people not like us. They don't like us anyway and they newer will. They want the world to be like it was 800 years ago, and we want to operate as a civilized society where all people have freedom and rights under law. We're never going to get along because of fundamental differences in religion and culture. The majority of the ME truly believes with every ounce of their existence that you should die if you don't believe what they believe. How are you gonna change that way of thinking?


Good point you can't change one's opinion about the other. But lets say at the work place a co-worker does not like you. Do you beat his ass because he doesn't agree with you. Have you made the work place a complete violent atmosphere. Or do you try and work together. My point is that we can't go around spending trillions of dollars bombing every muslim country because we don't see eye to eye. And as for the Iran supports terrorism,please provide the link that provides the information from the horses mouth. Please not Reuters, or the AP. I want un-biased proof that Iran supports terrorism.




I can see you're a Obama supporter. Would Barack telling you himself that Iran supports terrorism be good enough for you? Well...here ya go:


From barackobama.com

Link

Diplomacy: Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions. Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama would offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation. Seeking this kind of comprehensive settlement with Iran is our best way to make progress.


Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.
We need another war like a second asshole. I don't vote, fuck the political system. All politicains are POSs and don't care if their Dem or Rep. Fuck em. That being said I don't think a war with Iran is a good idea IMO. Just beacuse I won't support another war for byllshit reasons, you're calling me a Libtard and an Obama supporter? FOAD!

I forgot some ARFCOMers have a hardon for the military, nerds behind a keyboard trying to give internet BJs to guys in BDUs. IMO I don't think a war with Iran will help us here at home but oh,well. Again trying to move on.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 3:16:43 PM EDT

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Probably because a very capable ally of ours is about to do it instead.



People have been saying that about Israel for YEARS. I'm not buying it anymore. In addition, why are we waiting? Our troops are dying as a direct result of Iran's actions.


Because a lot more troops would die if we were to do what would be necessary to stop it.

And we'd guarantee an Obama presidency and a giant mess he wouldn't deal with.



No one is saying to invade Iran. That would be extremely stupid. Think about a Gulf War I approach. We had 148 battle-related deaths, plus one pilot listed as MIA. We bomb the shit out of them and leave. If they don't listen up, we'll do it again in a few years. Eventually, they'll start to listen.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 3:23:17 PM EDT

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I don't see how its our problem. Should let Israel handle that and if they need our help then we should step in. But I know some one will say its for the Insurgents thing.

Don't think Iran could ever have the capabilities to build and launch an ICBM that could reach the US. So we are in no danger from a nuke strike.

BTW North Korea already has a nuke program and has already tested missles. But China would stomp us a new mud hole if we tried anything, so lets focus on the ragheads,they have less allies.



It's not our problem that Iran is responsible for many of our troop deaths in Iraq?

China and Korea are not comprised of millions of psychopaths that WANT TO DIE for their cause. One thing we can be sure of is that radical Muslims would sacrifice millions of their own to set off a nuke inside the US or Israel. All it takes is ONE boat to make it into a US harbor and then detonate a nuke, and life as you know it in the good ole USA will change forever.


OK so we can prove all insurgents are Iranian? 100% proof positive. Look its been said before we as a nation with technology can't stop illegals entering this country in broad daylight, yet Iran is supposed to stop people from leaving their country? All assumptions of Iran are biased at best. Iranain insurgents are = to Iraqi WMDs. May not be the actual truth.



Who said "all insurgents are Iranians"? Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that the govt of Iran supports terrorism and that they are helping insurgents kill our troops in Iraq?


OK so does Syria, Lebanon, Jordan,Oman,Yemen,Somalia,Djibouti,Eygpt need any more muslim countries that dislike the U.S.



I do not agree with the strategy that we should not do the right thing because we make people not like us. They don't like us anyway and they newer will. They want the world to be like it was 800 years ago, and we want to operate as a civilized society where all people have freedom and rights under law. We're never going to get along because of fundamental differences in religion and culture. The majority of the ME truly believes with every ounce of their existence that you should die if you don't believe what they believe. How are you gonna change that way of thinking?


Good point you can't change one's opinion about the other. But lets say at the work place a co-worker does not like you. Do you beat his ass because he doesn't agree with you. Have you made the work place a complete violent atmosphere. Or do you try and work together. My point is that we can't go around spending trillions of dollars bombing every muslim country because we don't see eye to eye. And as for the Iran supports terrorism,please provide the link that provides the information from the horses mouth. Please not Reuters, or the AP. I want un-biased proof that Iran supports terrorism.




I can see you're a Obama supporter. Would Barack telling you himself that Iran supports terrorism be good enough for you? Well...here ya go:


From barackobama.com

Link

Diplomacy: Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions. Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama would offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation. Seeking this kind of comprehensive settlement with Iran is our best way to make progress.


Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.
We need another war like a second asshole. I don't vote, fuck the political system. All politicains are POSs and don't care if their Dem or Rep. Fuck em. That being said I don't think a war with Iran is a good idea IMO. Just beacuse I won't support another war for byllshit reasons, you're calling me a Libtard and an Obama supporter? FOAD!

I forgot some ARFCOMers have a hardon for the military, nerds behind a keyboard trying to give internet BJs to guys in BDUs. IMO I don't think a war with Iran will help us here at home but oh,well. Again trying to move on.




Well....if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck......
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 3:27:40 PM EDT

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[................



You obviously don't understand how big of a philosophical difference Muslims have as opposed to the rest of the world. When 57Strat mentioned that these people want you dead if you don't believe what they do, he wasn't kidding, exaggerating, lying, or bs'ing you. All non-muslims are infidels and according to Muslim law, are less than equal to Muslims and therefore if they kill you, it's within their rights as a higher classed individual.

So ya we can tuck our heads between our legs and try to ignore what's going on around us, but eventually it's going to bite us in the butt. Would you rather tackle it now, or wait for muslim extremism (not sure why we use the world extremism - since the muslim position is in pretty clear in the Koran) to build to a point where it's a lot harder to defeat it? Wait, nevermind.. don't answer my last question since we all know your answer.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 3:33:25 PM EDT
An attack on Iran would be about the dumbest thing we could do.  Probably worse than electing Obama, and that would be pretty damn stupid.
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