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Posted: 10/13/2004 2:06:27 PM EST
I've been considering it for a while... thinking about the deteriorating state of our rights here, and how it'll only get worse (the students and teachers here know what I'm talking about). Although I've been looking pretty intensely, I can't find the answers to a few questions.

How hard is it to emigrate? What I heard is, it's a lot easier if you have a lot of money. Otherwise, not sure.

Of the 3 main languages (Deutsch, Italiano, & Francais), which is the most commonly spoken (I know everybody says nearly everybody there speaks English, but it's good to be able to communicate with those who can't. Also, it's better to not be known as the dumbass American who makes it harder for everybody)? I think German, but I'm not sure.

What are the taxes like?

How's the job market for lawyers? What about psychology/psychiatry? Wages?

How long does it take to become naturalized? Can a non-citizen enjoy the rights of a citizen? How do their non-RKBA related rights compare to over here?

In the RKBA arena, what are the policies on machine-guns other than the issue SIGs? Are non-citizen residents also part of the militia?

Thanks in advance to those who know and are willing to help.
(P. S. Yes, I am well aware of the much wider availability of firearms and things like SBRs and silencers)
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:08:07 PM EST
wtf? how are you still not banned? i mean comeon all you do is bush bash and say how you hate america.
get a life
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:09:57 PM EST
"thinking about the deteriorating state of our rights here, and how it'll only get worse "
what do you think Switzerland is like. It's a total socialist state
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:11:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By gotodengo:
wtf? how are you still not banned? i mean comeon all you do is bush bash and say how you hate america.
get a life



Huh? I have never bashed Bush nor said how I hate America. All I said is America is going down the crapper real fast.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:12:00 PM EST
You cannot become a citizen there. Go ahead and ask....

www.eda.admin.ch/washington_emb/e/home.html
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:13:03 PM EST
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:13:39 PM EST
Yeah, every time I leave the US for awhile, it makes me remember how much I love it. I think if you want to leave, you should go. Fredom is not free, but not everyone is willing to fight the good fight for it when opposition rears it's ugly head. That's fine with me. They are not right for this country. They should leave.

salute
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:15:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:17:42 PM EST
Forget getting citizenship there.

The Swiss are smart enough to not even give the Swiss-born KIDS of immigrants automatic citizenship the way we do. Not even for a few generations.

They don't WANT immigrants, thank you.

Smart country, Switzerland.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:21:08 PM EST
If you don't have billions of dollars you won't be allowed to become a citizen.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:24:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 2:26:35 PM EST by Noname]
One of the funny things about Americans is a lot of them actually think the rest of the world operates like the USA.

Join the military, spend a little time overseas and see how "fucked up" the USA is...




Employment, self-employment, studies and retirement in Switzerland


The Swiss Government's restrictive immigration policy has made it very difficult to obtain residence permits for those who intend to take up employment. As a rule, only persons who have secured jobs which cannot be filled by Swiss nationals have a chance of obtaining residence permits. Inevitably, these vacancies are mainly in occupations of a highly specialised nature.

Switzerland does not use the term "work permit" in its traditional sense. The residence permit is a combination of both a residence and a work permit, entitling the holder to live in a particular canton and work for a specified employer.

As a rule, self-employment is possible only after a permanent residence permit has been obtained. Since such a permit is only issued after a prolonged period of time, it is virtually impossible to emigrate to Switzerland for the sole purpose of being self-employed.

Residence permits for students are granted for the period for which the student is accepted to the university, college or school. Proof of registration and financial means is required.

Only persons over the age of 60 who have retired from professional/business activities and who wish to join close relatives living in Switzerland have any real chance of being granted a residence permit.




Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:29:31 PM EST
... Do your research.

... First off, it's highly unlikely they will let you immigrate. Two - the country is as socialist as they come. Why would you bale on America? If Kerry gets in office, your country will swing toward socialism. Remember, the grass is always greener ...
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:33:43 PM EST
Please exit the country.
France and Germany's economies are on the brink of financial collapse do to the massive overburden of social-welfare programs.
Nations throughout the EU have a massive and rapidly-growing problem with immigrant-muslims, who are also vastly outstripping the native Euro population's birth rate.
Sweden, Norway and France have already laid down in the face of a major problem of young islamic males raping non-muslim women.
France itself is going to explode in sectarian / religious violence in less than 10years.
And No, you can't come back when it hits the fan.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:36:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 2:39:50 PM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
IHow hard is it to emigrate? What I heard is, it's a lot easier if you have a lot of money. Otherwise, not sure.
Reasonably easy

Of the 3 main languages (Deutsch, Italiano, & Francais), which is the most commonly spoken (I know everybody says nearly everybody there speaks English, but it's good to be able to communicate with those who can't. Also, it's better to not be known as the dumbass American who makes it harder for everybody)? I think German, but I'm not sure.
German is by far the most widely spoken

What are the taxes like?
Not excessive

How's the job market for lawyers? What about psychology/psychiatry? Wages?
Very good, Switzerland has one of the highest % of both in Europe IIRC, also the highest standard of living and per capita income. Wages are very good

How long does it take to become naturalized? Can a non-citizen enjoy the rights of a citizen? How do their non-RKBA related rights compare to over here?
Naturalisation takes 18 years on average! You get most of the rights as a non-citizen. God given right to carry and bear arms… it's a fundemental law and cannot be changed.

In the RKBA arena, what are the policies on machine-guns other than the issue SIGs? Are non-citizen residents also part of the militia?
No full auto's for civilians… CCW, you need a permit but very easy to get. Gun crime and crime in general is vanishingly small in Switzerland, one of the lowest rates in the developed world. IIRC averages around 60-70 gun related homocides a year. Non-citizens are outside the militia.

Thanks in advance to those who know and are willing to help.
(P. S. Yes, I am well aware of the much wider availability of firearms and things like SBRs and silencers)



Andy
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:37:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 2:40:25 PM EST by drew5337]
The whole world is going to shit dude, not just the US. And problem numero uno is radicals from the middle east emigrating on a large scale to asia and europe. We have only seen the begining of terrorism in this country. When the shit hits the fan, you will want to be surrounded by the most freedom loving and well armed people you can get close to, and those people will be in America.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:37:43 PM EST
I'll chip in $5 for MagKnightX's plane ticket. Who's with me?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:39:02 PM EST
I'm a foreign born immigrant and I think anyone who is born in U.S who thinks this country sucks is just.....

Let me just say I'm glad I'm here and...if you are born in U.S, you should consider yourself lucky and thank your parents/ancestors.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:39:04 PM EST

MagKnightX
Member
Joined :: July 2004
Post Number :: 1151

VA, USA



1151 posts in 3 months

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:42:02 PM EST
For a guy who is thinking about a MAJOR life change...you really don't know shit about where you want to go. Why would you resign your decision to a bunch of people on an Internet BB?

I'd have to say you are a total idiot.

I hope you end up under a bridge where you belong
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:42:18 PM EST
Too bad it is a socialist country.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:42:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By MaverickMkii:
I'm a foreign born immigrant and I think anyone who is born in U.S who thinks this country sucks is just.....

Let me just say I'm glad I'm here and...if you are born in U.S, you should consider yourself lucky and thank your parents/ancestors.



Listen to this gentleman. He knows WTF he's talking about.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:45:49 PM EST
I spent three years stationed in Germany and I wouldnt leave the USA to save my life - well, maybe..........but keeping it all in perspective - the USA is the best place left - even the so-called "free countries" out there arent. I can foresee a good 50 percent of America being stupid enough to put Kerry in office. I do NOT have faith in all my fellow countrymen. We are becoming an extension of Eurotrash like it or not. I just hope I can enjoy the rights I have until the day I die (natural causes). If not, its on..........cause I sure as sh#t won't be the subject of some socialist POS like our previous President Clinton. Any country that will elect someone like Clinton has ISSUES. And we do - this election will determine how many guns I need to bury this fiscal year. And how many to keep loaded just in case. Hope to God that Kerry doesnt get in.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:46:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By MaverickMkii:
I'm a foreign born immigrant and I think anyone who is born in U.S who thinks this country sucks is just.....

Let me just say I'm glad I'm here and...if you are born in U.S, you should consider yourself lucky and thank your parents/ancestors.



Well said!

Welcome to America, and welcome to Georgia...the home of Zell Miller!



Scott
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:48:12 PM EST
Switzerland can be a bit strange. Don't get me wrong, it can be nice, but I wouldn't want to live there. (I love using that phrase about other places, especially when it is used so much about my home town.) As others have said, things aren't as free as you might imagine. You are fine there so loong as you stay a short time and spend money. The police check with hotels on the people staying there, and how long. No, that does not just happen in movies about Nazi Germany.

As far as naturalization, big, complex process. ANd, for all the imagined "freedom" you might as well be in China. So much will depend on your neighbors. They will be asked all about you and there will be hearings. If you have the slightest disagreement with them - well, you can guess. If they don't like that you leave your garage door open and it is untidy in their view, etc. You might as well deal with a Chinese "block committee."

I like Switzerland, but there are a lot of other places I'd rather be.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:48:52 PM EST
I have an ex-girlfriend that I could hook you up with that has dual citizenship here in the USA and Switzerland.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:50:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 2:51:30 PM EST by Naked80]
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:51:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 2:52:22 PM EST by MagKnightX]
First, let me say, quite frankly, I couldn't care less about what people think of me on the internet. Think I'm a traitor? Fine, think that. Think I'm a moron? Okay, good for you. Think I'm a seven-headed purple winged fish? Well, sure, that's an opinion. Hell, in three years I'll probably have forgotten the URL to this place and never see anybody here again.

Second, I didn't ask your opinion. I asked for questions I had to be answered, because I couldn't find the answers elsewhere. So far, Andy and rjrobets have provided the only good answers (and I thank them for that). A couple other people have given semi-responses, and I thank them for that. The rest of you have apparently decided to whip out your patriotism wangs for a comparison. Well, okay, sure, yours are bigger than mine. Lah-di-dah. I never said I hated this country. I said I was thinking about moving away and you guys act as though I shot your dog, your firstborn son, AND your kindly old mothers. Okay. Whatever.

I got my answers. Mods, please lock this topic, before it becomes a flamefest.

(edited to include rjr in the tiny list of people who were helpful, because he added while I was typing this).
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:53:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 2:54:41 PM EST by H46Driver]
One of my of profs at Command and Staff College was a State Dept guy married to a Swiss national. He said that their immigration policy was incrediblely restrictive and that even he would have a lot of trouble becoming a Swiss citizen - not that he wants to.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:59:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 3:00:09 PM EST by MaverickMkii]

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
First, let me say, quite frankly, I couldn't care less about what people think of me on the internet. Think I'm a traitor? Fine, think that. Think I'm a moron? Okay, good for you. Think I'm a seven-headed purple winged fish? Well, sure, that's an opinion. Hell, in three years I'll probably have forgotten the URL to this place and never see anybody here again.

Second, I didn't ask your opinion. I asked for questions I had to be answered, because I couldn't find the answers elsewhere. So far, Andy and rjrobets have provided the only good answers (and I thank them for that). A couple other people have given semi-responses, and I thank them for that. The rest of you have apparently decided to whip out your patriotism wangs for a comparison. Well, okay, sure, yours are bigger than mine. Lah-di-dah. I never said I hated this country. I said I was thinking about moving away and you guys act as though I shot your dog, your firstborn son, AND your kindly old mothers. Okay. Whatever.

I got my answers. Mods, please lock this topic, before it becomes a flamefest.

(edited to include rjr in the tiny list of people who were helpful, because he added while I was typing this).



Well...

All I was trying to say is that you aren't going to find any country better than USA, especially if you think capitalism and personal freedom are good idea. I know socialists in this country is slowly taking our freedom away but it is still better than other countries, except a few maybe.

(edited for grammar 2x)
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:02:36 PM EST
I was being serious, but if you don't want a fine piece of Swiss ass then thats your perogitive.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:03:53 PM EST
Do your OWN WORK you lazy bitch
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:08:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
. Hell, in three years I'll probably have forgotten the URL to this place and never see anybody here again.
).



With 1152 some-odd posts since July?

Sure, buddy.

Good luck with the whole Switzerland thing.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:10:45 PM EST
I like holidaying in Switzerland… but would I live there?…No

I'd go to New Zealand… considered that option? They speak english, skills shortages, great lifestyle, good gun laws, easy residence and citizenship.

Andy
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:11:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 3:12:06 PM EST by skid2964]
Leave .... while we stay here and fight to make our country better, to make it they way it should be, the way it used to be, they way it still is in many ways .... and when things are looking better, I guess you will want to come back? SLACK !
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:21:48 PM EST
Good point - I do my part that I can while active duty military - but how many Americans stand up for their rights, support the NRA/GOA,etc? An awful lot of so called patriotic Americans are still sitting on their lard ass eating twinkies and are no more useful then a bunch of Michael Moore clones. Its the sad reality - speaking to the choir here mostly - its all about trying to get these apathetic people involved. Thats our problem here - most Americans do not care if their personal "space" isnt being violated. That needs to change.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:28:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By BallisticTip:



Yeah really!

+1
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:35:47 PM EST
Switzerland sucks ass! Very Green (party) and red (communist). It is beautiful but not like Montana. I lived there for a year working for an American biotech company. The natives combine the worse attributes of the french (aloofness) and germans (no sense of humor). The natives will treat you like shit - the people to hang out with are the other immigrants (portugese & italians - they party!). And it is horribly expensive and socialist - even the natives will cross the border to do food shopping! They have those automated camera/radar rigs everywhere (I still have tickets asking for outrageous fines - If you visit, rent a car, and get clocked by one of those things - they will just go the rental agency and debit the credit card you used). There is nothing like the bill of rights, due process, or property rights - knock yourself out!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:42:45 PM EST
You want to live inCH? Fuhgeddaboudit, unless you have $$$$$$hitloads of $$$$$$$$$. No jobs for you! No citizenship for you! The Swiss are insular and that's the way they like it. You no like? Stay home. CH is their home, not anybody else's.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:44:32 PM EST
So go, get the fuck out and quit wasting our American air.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:49:30 PM EST
At least Swiss is a moregun friendly country compared to the rest of Europe. I stopped into a little gun shop there two years ago and saw a few Colt AR-15s Steyr SPPs all the Glocks and SIGs and a brand new in the box SIG 550.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:50:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 4:40:24 PM EST by nekrit]

Originally Posted By rayra:
Please exit the country.
France and Germany's economies are on the brink of financial collapse do to the massive overburden of social-welfare programs.
Nations throughout the EU have a massive and rapidly-growing problem with immigrant-muslims, who are also vastly outstripping the native Euro population's birth rate.
Sweden, Norway and France have already laid down in the face of a major problem of young islamic males raping non-muslim women.
France itself is going to explode in sectarian / religious violence in less than 10years.
And No, you can't come back when it hits the fan.




Oh, it's much worse than that, I'm afraid.
Immigrants of colour are virtually holy cows in scandinavia.
Muslims stabbing, robbing and raping virtually unhindered, and norwegian laws and welfare programs, originally intended for the normally honest and decent norwegians, are very generous and wide open to exploitation by the less honest.

Recently, a somali went nuts, and stabbed 6 people on the public transportation system, one died.
The somali was deemed temporarily insane, and will not be prosecuted.

Even more recent, another muslim tried to bring down a domestic flight, severly wounding the pilots, and two passengers. He was beaten into submission by the passengers, and the pilots managed to land the plane safely. The flight was. at the lowest, 30 feet from the ground!
He will most likely not face prosecution either.

The femnazi PC thought-police are completely out of control, genderequity and anti-discrimination legislation is strangling the private industry sector, f.ex 40% of all board members must be female.

In sweden, a govermental femnazi actually proposed that all men be collectivly taxed for the violence committed upon women, by men.

It's a world gone completely insane.

(oh, btw, anyone know how easy it is for a brit to get a us citizenship?
I'm feeling the onset of wanderlust.)
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:58:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 3:59:09 PM EST by Penguin_101]
The US should deport people like you to show you what freedom is like here compared to other places.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:09:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:20:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By MisterFloppy:
Too bad it is a socialist country.



Well... A certain degree of socialism ain't all that bad.
There a lot of things that bug me about Canada, but it's good to know that if I suffer some terrible disease or injury I won't have to sell my house and go into debt to get medical treatment if I don't have or can't afford insurance.
True, socialized health care costs us a large ammount of tax dollars, but when it comes to having to cough up thousands of dollars to cover the cost of your kids kidney transplant or heart surgery... Who cares...
There are some things the "state" should take care of for it's citizens.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:20:44 PM EST
The Swiss don't particularly like foreigners who live in Switzerland (unless you are there to work in shitty jobs that they don't want). I've known non-swiss people who lived in Switzerland, and they did NOT feel welcome.

My guess is they would laugh their asses of at some random guy from the U.S. who comes over there and wants to become a Swiss citizen. They wouldn't even allow you to MOVE there as a foreigner unless you alrady had a job lined up with a Swiss company.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:46:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 4:49:15 PM EST by nekrit]

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By nekrit:
(oh, btw, anyone know how easy it is for a brit to get a us citizenship?
I'm feeling the onset of wanderlust.)



Nothing is *easy*, and you I'm sure already know how tedious dealing with government agencies is. But please make the effort and come on over. While I have a great deal of respect for Brits in many ways, even our current levels of freedom (which are much too low) will seem huge to a Brit ex-pat.

-Troy


Troy, thank you for your kind invitation. hersThe past years, I have given serious thought to jumping ship, and I'm just about ready to defect. And to stay ontopic, MagKnightX, suisse is a great country.. if you're swiss. Unless you hold a citizenship you are in effect a non-entity. My recommendation is to stay within the US.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:58:33 PM EST
Magknight:

lived there for three years while i was consulting for a golf course construction company. after my two year contract was up i tried to stay there (awesome place to live), and i managed to stay afloat for only 20 months on my own. one thing is for sure, unless you have a real good plan to support yourself you will NOT have an easy time. email me and i will tell you what i know.

btw dont listen to the dorks tearing you down, they know nothing of liberty. liberty is but a mere word to them.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 5:01:45 PM EST
BYE !
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 5:03:05 PM EST
Aren't you like 16 years old and live with your parents?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 5:03:28 PM EST
Feel free to leave! More room for us to live our lives better!
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