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Posted: 10/8/2007 4:53:21 AM EST
those guys make an average of 70 bucks an hr.

I do ok, and am my own boss but how does one get into a union?

Who do I call?
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:58:25 AM EST
First you need to get reborn to a union member IIRC.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:00:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:01:25 AM EST
Remove your balls, brain, and spine, then let some commie organization take over your future.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:02:40 AM EST
you cant be serious!
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:03:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By RED_5:
you cant be serious!


for 70 bucks an hr I sure in the hell am...
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:03:59 AM EST
You need to start by practicing bending over. Desecrating your values will be easier after some practice.

Average $70/hr? You also need to stop smoking the crack. Union workers often have to perform for drug screenings.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:04:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By RV-1:
First you need to get reborn to a union member IIRC.


+1

I was in the Ironworkers Local 361 in NY. Our package was about $98/hr.

I was one of 2 people out of 300 that did not have any relatives in the union.

Good luck. If you can get in, and with a good company, you'll do good. I made more than my wife, who is an attorney.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:06:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Remove your balls, brain, and spine, then let some commie organization take over your future.


Please enlighten us. What more control does someone that chooses to work for a private company have over someone who is union?
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:08:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Remove your balls, brain, and spine, then let some commie organization take over your future.


Please enlighten us. What more control does someone that chooses to work for a private company have over someone who is union?


You negotiate your own salary as a non-union member and advance on the merit of your work and productivity. Is it really that hard to understand?
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:08:43 AM EST
That $70 figure is the total COST for the employer of all compensation. The employee does not get $70 per hour in their paycheck.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:10:39 AM EST
Say what you will I am in a union and it has worked out quite well for me. I should add that it is at a state level so it is probably a bit different then the private sector.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:13:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:14:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 5:14:44 AM EST by shootemup]

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Remove your balls, brain, and spine, then let some commie organization take over your future.


Please enlighten us. What more control does someone that chooses to work for a private company have over someone who is union?


You negotiate your own salary as a non-union member and advance on the merit of your work and productivity. Is it really that hard to understand?



Thats funny. I was union, and since I was a educated, intelligent, and productive worker, the company for which I worker for realized that and compensated me further.

You non union guys amaze me. I'm not say unions are great, but it's clear that some of you spew nonsense out of your asses.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:17:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Pault:
Damn, I was scared for a minute, did a quick check:
Balls- Intact
Brains- Intact
Spine - Intact
Values- Intact
I dont take too kindly to people suggesting I dont have the above mentioned equipment. Especially if they dont know me or my lifestyle.
I guess its kinda like saying that anyone who owns an assault weapon () only has it to kill people with ?
I dont like making broad generalizations, but please dont let it stop any of YOU.
So, back to the OP, if you are in the NY area and involved in the Construction Trades, please contact me, I think I might be of some assistance.
Best of luck in whatever vocation you choose, after all, I believe its still our right to make our own personal choices about some things ?


If I was in NY, i'd give you a buzz. I appreciate it.

Im out in the southwest.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:17:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 5:21:38 AM EST by speedracer422]
Damn! Some of those Unions around teh country do OK!

I am friends w/ a former Teamsters head (buddie's dad) and know a number of "influential" union members in Electricians, Laborers, steamfitters and carpenters. None of those people make anything close to that, maybe a $40+ an hour package at most after their aprenticeship.


FWIW, I worked for a Union Carpenters company for a year and turned down the offers to join after i realized they just didn't pay that well! The journeyman package started at like $23 an hour, so you actally made like $14 an hour. Fuck that, I can go sell cell phones or some shit and still make that much, have benifits, a 401k instead of a pension that may get sqaundered away, and not have to preform any dangerous activities on a daily basis. I always enjoyed manual labor, but found that it just doesn't pay as well.

For a $98/hour package I would definitly rethink that position


Also, i am not a fan of Unions overall, but for some industries (like Carpentery), the union actually does a lot of good as they can usually garuntee quality work and deadlines as opposed to the myriad of fly by night and screwball large outfits that permeate my locale.


Speed

ETA; Also, the co I worked for knew the wages were kinda lousy so for the foreman, they gave them a seperate "blue" check that had an additional hourly wage on it; I don't know if that is commonplace or not.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:18:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
those guys make an average of 70 bucks an hr.




Where did you hear that bullshit?
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:20:56 AM EST
When it comes down to work done by a union member and work done by messicans, I will go with the union work.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:20:59 AM EST
Brought to you buy the people that brought you the 5 day work week
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:22:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:

Originally Posted By RED_5:
you cant be serious!


for 70 bucks an hr I sure in the hell am...


heh, what if union dues are $65/hr
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:24:00 AM EST
The bad news is, in many cases, if you need to be in a union at a company, that company is not worth working for. I have worked for an airline where we absolutely needed a union and one now, where we don't seem to need one. The differences between the companies are night and day.

I am not some guy that thinks I am entitled to a certain level of work or pay grade. I totally believe that people should work for what they are paid. I have owned my own businesses in the past, with employees...and have become a stauch conservative after having had the government rummage through my pockets as a business owner. I paid my employees a market premium...to keep the best people, which allowed me to charge a premium price.

My finance degree was completely done in a an anti-union environment.

I know there are a lot of folks here that are anti-union...and for the most part, I still am too. But know this, until you work in an industry where your personal work cannot be differentiated from someone else's...yet you are held to the highest standards, and still treated like a piece of meat and your livelihood and career is threatened on a daily basis, you won't have an appreciation for being in a union. Not all of them are bad.

- Anarki
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:27:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
those guys make an average of 70 bucks an hr.




Where did you hear that bullshit?


look at the daimler chrysler thread.

they average a 70 and hr package
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:30:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By RV-1:
First you need to get reborn to a union member IIRC.


+1

I was in the Ironworkers Local 361 in NY. Our package was about $98/hr.

I was one of 2 people out of 300 that did not have any relatives in the union.

Good luck. If you can get in, and with a good company, you'll do good. I made more than my wife, who is an attorney.


Is that Oswego? I may have worked with some of your brothers up north of Syracuse.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:35:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
those guys make an average of 70 bucks an hr.




Where did you hear that bullshit?


look at the daimler chrysler thread.

they average a 70 and hr package


From my experience in NY, I think the Ironworkers were the highest. This is mainly because of the dangers associated with the job.

After the Ironworkers, I think its the operating engineers(crane operators), and then the electricians, and then carpenters. Something like that.

I don't think I'd change a thing if I were to do it over again. I started when I was 18, and retired last year. I have my pension, annuity, and all the money in my topping out and vacation fund that accumulated over 15 years.

I'm in my early 30's, retired, and living on 30 acres in Colorado shooting my guns everyday on my own land. I've been smart and invested heavily in commercial real estate and between my savings, my pension, and the passive income that my properties make, I earn more money being retired than I did when I worked.

I would have to say to the poster that replied to one of my posts that union labor has no spine, brains, etc....I must say that I made alot of decisions in my career. Maybe more so than some poor sap working a 9-5 at some desk job.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:36:57 AM EST
Having had been in two unions in my life, UAW and IAM, I can say with confidence that I am much better off in my non-exempt salary position. I negotiated my own salary and vacation and have proven myself proficient in my trade.

If you feel that you are not capable of making the agreements that concern your benefits and compensation then you are better off letting a collective organization do it for you. Just don't be surprised when you get the bill for it. What bill? The bitter taste in your throat when you see your "brothers" protecting the lazy, unproductive comrad that thinks it's his/her right to sit on their ass all day and get over on the company. The collective unit telling you that you can't work until they get what they want from the company that employs you. If you chose to go against the wishes of the collective, you will be beaten and terrorized along with your family.

Who can say that they are proud of being a member of a collective organization that condones the use of terror and force to force their will on others? Do you feel anything at all when you hear of a house being vandalized and the family terrorized by thugs that slink around in the dark to terrorize "scabs"?

If you are a supporter of the union goons and their tactics, you might as well be a sheet wearing Ku Klucker or "middle eastern religious zealot".
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:37:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
those guys make an average of 70 bucks an hr.




Where did you hear that bullshit?


look at the daimler chrysler thread.

they average a 70 and hr package


There are longshoremen union crane operators that earn in the high $200Ks.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:37:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 5:38:24 AM EST by HeckThomas]
To make sure your hand doesn't get hacked off in an unsafe enviorment unions can be ok, but where unions really excell is getting many jobs sent out of the country. When you have a union fighting for raises for people that are constantly out sick or forklift drivers making 55k a year your leaving a company no choice but to look for ways to run the company cheaper, hence american cars being made in canada and mexico.

Look at NY, you have to have a union carpenter punch nails in the wall so you can hang a picture of your wife on your office wall. The docks are a big joke, one guy to drive it, one guy to unload it and one guy to move it from the dock, theres a racket.

Then look at the grocery stores, the cashiers fought for better health care, what was the result, now you have more self checkout lines, the customer is paying more for their groceries, ringing it up and bagging it themselves, way to go unions you cut cashier jobs by 33%.

If you want high paying jobs that will soon be extinct Go Union.

And for the prison guards, don't think for a minute the government wouldn't hire ex-pakastani soldiers to guard our prisoners at 15 bucks an hour.

Companies would do well for themselves to put ESOP programs (employee stock option programs) into place to combat Unions.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:37:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By FoxCharlieActual:

Is that Oswego? I may have worked with some of your brothers up north of Syracuse.


No, it was pretty much Long Island. I did work a bit in Local 40, which is NYC.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:38:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By crurifragium:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
those guys make an average of 70 bucks an hr.




Where did you hear that bullshit?


look at the daimler chrysler thread.

they average a 70 and hr package


There are longshoremen union crane operators that earn in the high $200Ks.



that's what I was gonna say, the longshoreman is the way to go....

TXL
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:41:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Remove your balls, brain, and spine, then let some commie organization take over your future.


Please enlighten us. What more control does someone that chooses to work for a private company have over someone who is union?


True Dat.

Though unions often seem to throttle the goose.

Got to have some realistic balance; the real enemy is in China.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:46:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Having had been in two unions in my life, UAW and IAM, I can say with confidence that I am much better off in my non-exempt salary position. I negotiated my own salary and vacation and have proven myself proficient in my trade.

If you feel that you are not capable of making the agreements that concern your benefits and compensation then you are better off letting a collective organization do it for you. Just don't be surprised when you get the bill for it. What bill? The bitter taste in your throat when you see your "brothers" protecting the lazy, unproductive comrad that thinks it's his/her right to sit on their ass all day and get over on the company. The collective unit telling you that you can't work until they get what they want from the company that employs you. If you chose to go against the wishes of the collective, you will be beaten and terrorized along with your family.

Who can say that they are proud of being a member of a collective organization that condones the use of terror and force to force their will on others? Do you feel anything at all when you hear of a house being vandalized and the family terrorized by thugs that slink around in the dark to terrorize "scabs"?

If you are a supporter of the union goons and their tactics, you might as well be a sheet wearing Ku Klucker or "middle eastern religious zealot".


The funny thing is that, all your negotiated benefits and compensation is still not as good as most union negotiated deals.

Yes, the UAW is hurting, but that is because of the retirees. If it wasn't for them, there has been many articles written that the American companies would still be able to compete with the Japs even with the Union.

One other thing. I think it is hilarious that some of you dopes think that if you are union you can sit on your ass all day and get paid. You guys are still stuck in the 70's. Nowadays, atleast in my union and in my company, if you are not working or haven't got a clue, your ass is out of a job and you are down at the union hall waiting for a call.

You guys that don't have any experience with a union should really remove your head from your ass. It's clearly obvious, atleast to the ones here that are familiar with unions, that you are making fools of your selves due to your lack of knowledge and ingnorance.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:51:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
those guys make an average of 70 bucks an hr.




Where did you hear that bullshit?


look at the daimler chrysler thread.

they average a 70 and hr package


Two completely different statements.

I looked at the Diamler Chrysler story. The cost of their package is $75/hour.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:54:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Having had been in two unions in my life, UAW and IAM, I can say with confidence that I am much better off in my non-exempt salary position. I negotiated my own salary and vacation and have proven myself proficient in my trade.

If you feel that you are not capable of making the agreements that concern your benefits and compensation then you are better off letting a collective organization do it for you. Just don't be surprised when you get the bill for it. What bill? The bitter taste in your throat when you see your "brothers" protecting the lazy, unproductive comrad that thinks it's his/her right to sit on their ass all day and get over on the company. The collective unit telling you that you can't work until they get what they want from the company that employs you. If you chose to go against the wishes of the collective, you will be beaten and terrorized along with your family.

Who can say that they are proud of being a member of a collective organization that condones the use of terror and force to force their will on others? Do you feel anything at all when you hear of a house being vandalized and the family terrorized by thugs that slink around in the dark to terrorize "scabs"?

If you are a supporter of the union goons and their tactics, you might as well be a sheet wearing Ku Klucker or "middle eastern religious zealot".


The funny thing is that, all your negotiated benefits and compensation is still not as good as most union negotiated deals.

Yes, the UAW is hurting, but that is because of the retirees. If it wasn't for them, there has been many articles written that the American companies would still be able to compete with the Japs even with the Union.

One other thing. I think it is hilarious that some of you dopes think that if you are union you can sit on your ass all day and get paid. You guys are still stuck in the 70's. Nowadays, atleast in my union and in my company, if you are not working or haven't got a clue, your ass is out of a job and you are down at the union hall waiting for a call.

You guys that don't have any experience with a union should really remove your head from your ass. It's clearly obvious, atleast to the ones here that are familiar with unions, that you are making fools of your selves due to your lack of knowledge and ingnorance.


Hows that Kool Aid taste chief? A little bitter?
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:56:07 AM EST
The teachers in a neigboring county have been on strike since Oct. 1st.
The picketers have been harassing the substitute teachers and parents who have the gall to cross their picket and deliver their kids to school.

Many of the parents haven't been sending thier kids to school.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:56:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:


Hows that Kool Aid taste chief? A little bitter?


Maybe I'm missing something, but I have absolutely no clue what you mean in regards to my post.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:03:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Remove your balls, brain, and spine, then let some commie organization take over your future.


Please enlighten us. What more control does someone that chooses to work for a private company have over someone who is union?


As a non-union worker I'm not required to pay tribute to fund the political campaigns of democraps.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:10:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
those guys make an average of 70 bucks an hr.




Where did you hear that bullshit?


Yeah no kidding

the only thing the union Im in does for me is take $50 bucks out of my check every month for dues.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:11:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By FMJ3:

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Remove your balls, brain, and spine, then let some commie organization take over your future.


Please enlighten us. What more control does someone that chooses to work for a private company have over someone who is union?


As a non-union worker I'm not required to pay tribute to fund the political campaigns of democraps.


The last I checked, we're still free to vote for the candidate of our choice.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:18:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Remove your balls, brain, and spine, then let some commie organization take over your future.


Please enlighten us. What more control does someone that chooses to work for a private company have over someone who is union?


As a non-union worker I'm not required to pay tribute to fund the political campaigns of democraps.


The last I checked, we're still free to vote for the candidate of our choice.


RIF - who said anything about voting
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:26:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By FMJ3:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Originally Posted By shootemup:


The last I checked, we're still free to vote for the candidate of our choice.


RIF - who said anything about voting


What good is a campaign fund if they dont get VOTED in?


RIF

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:29:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 6:31:37 AM EST by mandingo]
I work for a utility company and am a union member. I've seen some really shitty union members and I have seen some real shitty non union members.

Some of the worst managers I've had were at one time union members.

But overall, the company and the union work together to keep everything running in the safest possible way.

Could it work without a union. Sure.

Would be work as well. Probably not.

It's nice having someone keep the occasional "asshole boss" from running roughshod over us.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:30:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Originally Posted By shootemup:


The last I checked, we're still free to vote for the candidate of our choice.


RIF - who said anything about voting


What good is a campaign fund if they dont get VOTED in?


RIF



I'm gonna give Hillary a thousand dollar check tomorrow.

But I'm not gonna vote for her, so it doesn't make a difference.

If you weren't a union employee, I'd wonder why you're being so illogical.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:11:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By badfish274:

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By badfish274:

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By badfish274:


I'm gonna give Hillary a thousand dollar check tomorrow.

But I'm not gonna vote for her, so it doesn't make a difference.

If you weren't a union employee, I'd wonder why you're being so illogical.


Well, if you are going to use that logic, then you better check every product you buy, and check whether the parent company, or any other through out the chain of transit, contributes to her campaign.


Maybe you haven't seen the list of companies floating around here that are anti-RKBA. I do not do business with those companies as much as I can.

In some instances, however, it becomes necessary to do so.

You do not have to work a union job that gives money to socialists. And yet, you do. Why? Because it is advantageous to you of course. Good ole libertarian selfishness. I'm a huge fan of it. I don't really care that you do so, but I do ask that you be honest with yourself about it.

Your union gives money to socialists. That money is used in their campaigns to reach out to more voters and increase their base. That you don't vote for them is immaterial.


And lets say that someone chooses not to be union, but rather chooses to work for ABC Company, Inc.

How does that person even know what their employer chooses to do with their company's profits. Unless you are self employed, which I am now, there is now way for you to know or have any control over that being either an employee union or non.

So its all the same shit. You guys are spewing bull shit out of your mouths. Especailly since union makes up what, 10% of the total workforce?

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bigger private companies, like Ebay, Microsoft, Google, etc. do more damage than the unions.


Thats the distinction. If you work for a company that gives money to John Edwards and have no reason to know it, its not your fault.

If you're in a union, it is a historical certainty that a portion of your dues will be going to democrats. You KNOW it is going on and yet you CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE.


Actually, you are allowed to opt of paying the percentage of dues that go towards poliitical bullshit, at least in Arizona, thats the law.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:13:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Remove your balls, brain, and spine, then let some commie organization take over your future.


Please enlighten us. What more control does someone that chooses to work for a private company have over someone who is union?


You negotiate your own salary as a non-union member and advance on the merit of your work and productivity. Is it really that hard to understand?


I'm not pro-union by any means, but I think they have their place. When you're on your own, it's you against them and the deck is always stacked in their favor.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:15:39 AM EST
I wonder why we bother having these union debates - they are about as useful as religion and police threads.

You are going to have a hard time convincing someone that the entity responsible for the size of their paycheck is principally evil.

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:19:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Actually, you are allowed to opt of paying the percentage of dues that go towards poliitical bullshit, at least in Arizona, thats the law.


Well good on 'em. I'd shit a brick if the UAW or Michigan allowed that.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:19:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 7:20:22 AM EST by SJSAMPLE]

...
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:19:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By mattja:
When you're on your own, it's you against them and the deck is always stacked in their favor.

For fungible skill sets, you are 100% correct.

However, there are many white collar workers with unique marketable skills. There are several people on this board who can write there own tickets based on their experience.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:21:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
those guys make an average of 70 bucks an hr.




Where did you hear that bullshit?


A friend of mine down the street makes 60 an hr on the job, 85 an hr when he works weekends.

It does happen.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:21:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
I wonder why we bother having these union debates - they are about as useful as religion and police threads.

You are going to have a hard time convincing someone that the entity responsible for the size of their paycheck is principally evil.



Just a guess, but maybe because they are fueled by others who are just jealous?

It's funny, but when the union debate comes to cops, teachers, pilots, etc, we don't hear a peep.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:33:45 AM EST
I've worked for two companies that have union shops. The unions here are nothing but a burden on the company. People do sit on their asses all day and do nothing, and the union does protect them. People pull all kinds of crap, for example dealing drugs, and of course the union protects them. The union puts people into positions that they can't do, won't do, and don't have the ability to do. Its all about seniority. They have three guys assigned to one job that is a slack job, and they still don't keep up. Of course, it pays to be slow....get that 1.5x pay on Saturday and 2x pay on Sunday. They have better benifits than the salaried employees, get tons of time off, guaranteed raises, better job security than salaried employees, and they still whine and moan and threaten to strike every damn time negotiations come around again. Last time they got all pissy about having to do random drug tests, went on strike, and cost the company over 1million. We're talking about people that drive fork trucks off of loading docks...they need to be tested.
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