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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 4/6/2006 7:44:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 6:19:23 AM EDT by jrzy]
Att. mod/staff
This is a repost with thebeekeeper1's blessing due to the hi-jack of the original thread.

I read Randy weavers book "The Federal Siege At Ruby Ridge" and I am having an argument with some idiot on another board who says Vicky Weavers fingers were cut off and missing when her body was returned to the family for burial.
Did I miss this in the book as this nut case claims?
It was a while ago I read it and I think I would remember a detail like that.
Anyone know?



Here's the update

I just got off the phone with someone who has a copy of "The Federal siege at Ruby Ridge"

On page 42 it does indeed say Vicky Weavers fingers were sniped off and sent to The FBI at Quantico Va.
It was also stated this was done for ID purposes and were never returned to be buried with her.
Her body was returned to Randy for burial without her fingers.


MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:18:52 AM EDT
bump- Lets try and keep it civil gents
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 1:49:43 PM EDT
Anyone?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 2:29:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 2:29:44 PM EDT by JDeere_1530]
I've never heard that and I have followed the case closely for years.

Gerry Spence made no mention of it in his book, "From Freedom to Slavery- The Rebirth of Tyranny in America" nor is it mentioned in any other reputable book on the seige.

This is a good time to mention that Lon Horiuchi, the HRT sniper, is still undercover, and, I suspect, under government protection with a new identity.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 2:39:41 PM EDT
tag again
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 2:41:31 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 2:43:55 PM EDT
Haven't heard that one before.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:00:34 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:32:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 3:33:36 PM EDT by jrzy]

Originally Posted By JDeere_1530:
I've never heard that and I have followed the case closely for years.

Gerry Spence made no mention of it in his book, "From Freedom to Slavery- The Rebirth of Tyranny in America" nor is it mentioned in any other reputable book on the seige.

This is a good time to mention that Lon Horiuchi, the HRT sniper, is still undercover, and, I suspect, under government protection with a new identity.



It is supposed to be (according to the dick that posted it) on page 42 in the last paragraph of "The Federal Siege At Ruby Ridge"

He was at Waco and If I'm not mistaken he is a sniper instructor at the FBI facility at Quantico VA.
and is not in hiding.
You know Randy Weaver was awarded 3 million dollars in the civil suit.
I suspect he had at least 1.5 million after all was said and done.
I wonder if they have a perpetual tap on Randy's phones and a constant tracking of his whereabouts?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:36:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 3:36:47 PM EDT by I-M-A-WMD]
I don't recall reading or hearing of Vicky Weaver missing digits...

Maybe the guy is thinking of "Gordon Kahl"? IIRC, it was reported that his hands were chopped off after he was burned inside his a house by a federal agent who went nuts after waiting for the fire to die down to check out the building... But most of my memory is corrupted w/ barley and hoppes #9 so take that with a grain of salt.

Sly
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:10:02 AM EDT
I can't believe no one knows the answer to this?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:12:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:17:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:17:37 AM EDT by jrzy]
I just got off the phone with someone who has a copy of "The Federal siege at Ruby Ridge"

On page 42 it does indeed say Vicky Weavers fingers were snipped off and sent to The FBI at Quantico Va.
It was also stated this was done for ID purposes and were never returned to be buried with her.
Her body was returned to Randy for burial without her fingers.


MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:19:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:
Sounds like a tractor trailer full of BS.





+1



On subject if not on point.

When this debacle first started, the media refereed to Mr. Weaver as a 'survivalist'. As things worsened and Mr. Weaver need to be demonized, the media then switched to 'white supremacist'.



5sub
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:22:42 AM EDT
Is it true or just some more conspiracy theory?

More than one souce. Preferrably someone reputable.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:34:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Is it true or just some more conspiracy theory?

More than one souce. Preferrably someone reputable.



Well Randy wrote the book and it's right there on page 42, so did Randy Weaver lie?
I doubt he would.
If I see Randy Weaver at a gun show I doubt if I will ask him, would you?
All I know is that it is definatley on page 42 of "The siege at Ruby Ridge"

Here's the exact quote from the book.


Kevin left the cabin and surrendered on August 30, 1992. Shortly thereafter, Sam and Vicki's bodies were cremated, but not until after the FBI had snipped Vicki's fingers off and sent them to the FBI laboratory in Quantico, VA. Her fingers were never returned for cremation.
When questioned about it no one seemed to have an answer as to what they did with them.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:53:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Is it true or just some more conspiracy theory?

More than one souce. Preferrably someone reputable.



Well Randy wrote the book and it's right there on page 42, so did Randy Weaver lie?
I doubt he would.
If I see Randy Weaver at a gun show I doubt if I will ask him, would you?
All I know is that it is definatley on page 42 of "The siege at Ruby Ridge"

Here's the exact quote from the book.


Kevin left the cabin and surrendered on August 30, 1992. Shortly thereafter, Sam and Vicki's bodies were cremated, but not until after the FBI had snipped Vicki's fingers off and sent them to the FBI laboratory in Quantico, VA. Her fingers were never returned for cremation.
When questioned about it no one seemed to have an answer as to what they did with them.




Horiuchi wears them on a chain around his neck with his FBI badge. God bless America.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:54:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 6:54:59 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]

Originally Posted By jrzy:

....Vicky Weavers fingers were sniped off and sent to The FBI at Quantico Va.



That's some good shooting.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:56:15 AM EDT


Yep!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:00:10 AM EDT
Can I ask a dumb question?
I'm not real familiar with the whole Ruby Ridge episode, as I was 12 when it happened. In fact, I completely forgot about it before I saw that other thread title. Can anyone give me a cliff notes version of what happened and why?
I know, I know, Google is my friend, but I'm afraid I'm going to get a bunch of nonsense, and about 50 pages I don't care to read.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:09:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Is it true or just some more conspiracy theory?

More than one souce. Preferrably someone reputable.



Well Randy wrote the book and it's right there on page 42, so did Randy Weaver lie?
I doubt he would.
If I see Randy Weaver at a gun show I doubt if I will ask him, would you?
All I know is that it is definatley on page 42 of "The siege at Ruby Ridge"

Here's the exact quote from the book.


Kevin left the cabin and surrendered on August 30, 1992. Shortly thereafter, Sam and Vicki's bodies were cremated, but not until after the FBI had snipped Vicki's fingers off and sent them to the FBI laboratory in Quantico, VA. Her fingers were never returned for cremation.
When questioned about it no one seemed to have an answer as to what they did with them.






Last I knew,he still lives south of me (about 20 minutes).I never met him,but have a customer who knows him (although I haven't seen them in awhile).If I remember,I will ask them and see if they know for sure.

Could the reason of taking the fingers have been to check for gunpowder residue to see if she had fired a gun?I can't see why it would matter,but it's the only thing I could think of that might make sense.

This really makes my blood boil.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:14:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Curt1521:
Can I ask a dumb question?
I'm not real familiar with the whole Ruby Ridge episode, as I was 12 when it happened. In fact, I completely forgot about it before I saw that other thread title. Can anyone give me a cliff notes version of what happened and why?
I know, I know, Google is my friend, but I'm afraid I'm going to get a bunch of nonsense, and about 50 pages I don't care to read.

Thanks!



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:15:36 AM EDT
dude, the govt. wouldn't chop her fingers off...


the government is there to help you
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:19:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Curt1521:
Can I ask a dumb question?
I'm not real familiar with the whole Ruby Ridge episode, as I was 12 when it happened. In fact, I completely forgot about it before I saw that other thread title. Can anyone give me a cliff notes version of what happened and why?
I know, I know, Google is my friend, but I'm afraid I'm going to get a bunch of nonsense, and about 50 pages I don't care to read.

Thanks!



Rik posted it for you.

By the way thats how the first thread got hi-jacked.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:22:42 AM EDT
Thanks for the Wiki posting. I had no idea that was the story behind it.
I apologize for the hijack.

It sounds to me like it started as a huge misunderstanding, and escalated from there.
And for the sniper not knowing the lady was behind a door. Isn't one of the major rules of firearms is to know your target and what's behind it? How was this guy a sniper?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:23:00 AM EDT
I have that book ill look it up tonight.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:59:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 8:04:28 AM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By Curt1521:
Thanks for the Wiki posting. I had no idea that was the story behind it.
I apologize for the hijack.

It sounds to me like it started as a huge misunderstanding, and escalated from there.
And for the sniper not knowing the lady was behind a door. Isn't one of the major rules of firearms is to know your target and what's behind it? How was this guy a sniper?



He did know she was behind the door.
FBI HRT changed the rules of engagement.
This was later ruled to be unconstitutional, but what happened to our buddy Lon Horiuchi, the man who took the shot?
Nothing.

Horiuchi was also at Waco in 1994 in sinper position, Sierra 2, IIRC.


Good morning Mrs. Weaver,” “We had pancakes this morning. And what did you have for breakfast? Why don't you send your children out for some pancakes, Mrs. Weaver?


Anyone care to comment on that?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:01:49 AM EDT
Regarding the fingers.. it is not uncommon for them to remove fingers for ID purposes and not return them to the body.

I guess since it happened at Ruby Ridge that we should be in shock and awe, but the truth is it is nothing special.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:03:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:
Regarding the fingers.. it is not uncommon for them to remove fingers for ID purposes and not return them to the body.

I guess since it happened at Ruby Ridge that we should be in shock and awe, but the truth is it is nothing special.



I think we both know this was done with a wink and a nudge.
What was the purpose of removing them from her body?
As many LE have stated, you only do that with decomps.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:06:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:
Regarding the fingers.. it is not uncommon for them to remove fingers for ID purposes and not return them to the body.

I guess since it happened at Ruby Ridge that we should be in shock and awe, but the truth is it is nothing special.



The purpose is to rehydrate tissue to get fingerprints, it might be what they did in this case.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:08:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:10:03 AM EDT
[scratches head wondering] Why would they need to cut off her fingers in the first place? They knew who she was.


Does this tidbit really matter in the whole scheme of things?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:10:32 AM EDT
After reading about all this this I ordered Randy's book.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:13:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:
I met Horiuchi when I worked at Barrett. The HRT was buying 10 M82A1's and needed brought up to speed on them.
We took them to our 1400m range and set steel 12" plates at 500m. 500m was a chip shot and thought they could nail them easily. Horiuchi fired 6 times and missed every time. After he said they were shit. I laid down, fired 1 time to re-affirm my zero and rung the steel 7 times straight. I told him the problem wasn't the rifle, he needed to learn how to shoot a mans rifle. He didn't think it was funny, but the other HRT guys did.

When the boss found out about it, he had a talk with me about it.

I came to the conclusion a lot of them really can't shoot past 100m. A few of them had trouble with the 12" plate at 500m.



Did you think about asking horiuchi why he murdered Vicky?

Do me a favor everyone?
Stop capitalizing his last name, he's a POS!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:13:45 AM EDT
What do you guys care? Weaver was a moonbat. The gov't was protecting society when they went after the Weavers. Get in line. Wave at the agent taking your picture. Breathe deeply when you get inside the room. All is well.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:13:58 AM EDT
I'll check my copy of Every Knee Shall Bow. I think it mentioned something about it.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:15:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Curt1521:
Thanks for the Wiki posting. I had no idea that was the story behind it.
I apologize for the hijack.

It sounds to me like it started as a huge misunderstanding effort by government agents to generate criminal activity, and escalated from there.
And for the sniper not knowing the lady was behind a door. Isn't one of the major rules of firearms is to know your target and what's behind it? How was this guy a sniper?



Fixed.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:16:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Another_Dude:
After reading about all this this I ordered Randy's book.



It does if it was done to slap Randy in response to Ruby Ridge.
If the govt can take body parts to punish your loved ones than what does that say about our govt.?
I still have no idea why Randy never went for some savage revenge.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:17:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:17:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I think we both know this was done with a wink and a nudge.
What was the purpose of removing them from her body?



For ID.

As many LE have stated, you only do that with decomps.


No, you really don't only do it with decomps.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:18:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 8:52:55 AM EDT by jrzy]

Originally Posted By 50cal:
Sorry jrzy. The boss said political jabs were off limits and would be dealt with.


Oh yeah. Hi Lon, learn to shoot yet?



You know he might read here huh?
What do you think would happen if he registered here ?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:41:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I think we both know this was done with a wink and a nudge.
What was the purpose of removing them from her body?



For ID.


As many LE have stated, you only do that with decomps.


No, you really don't only do it with decomps.




Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:48:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:
I met Horiuchi when I worked at Barrett. The HRT was buying 10 M82A1's and needed brought up to speed on them.
We took them to our 1400m range and set steel 12" plates at 500m. 500m was a chip shot and thought they could nail them easily. Horiuchi fired 6 times and missed every time. After he said they were shit. I laid down, fired 1 time to re-affirm my zero and rung the steel 7 times straight. I told him the problem wasn't the rifle, he needed to learn how to shoot a mans rifle. He didn't think it was funny, but the other HRT guys did.

When the boss found out about it, he had a talk with me about it.

I came to the conclusion a lot of them really can't shoot past 100m. A few of them had trouble with the 12" plate at 500m.



Was that with a scope? If so, cripes, that's sad. I have hit a 20" torso target at 500m with an iron-sight M1A repeatedly. It ain't that hard.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:10:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By 50cal:
Sorry jrzy. The boss said political jabs were off limits and would be dealt with.


Oh yeah. Hi Lon, learn to shoot yet?



You know he might read here huh?
What do you think would happen if he registered here ?



What makes you think he isn't already registered here?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:15:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By Another_Dude:
After reading about all this this I ordered Randy's book.



It does if it was done to slap Randy in response to Ruby Ridge.
If the govt can take body parts to punish your loved ones than what does that say about our govt.?
I still have no idea why Randy never went for some savage revenge.



Because he has living children to think about.
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