Leahy brought up some very valid arguments against it, including the concerns about the expanded use of wire taping, monitoring of computers and regulating encryption. But all Hatch would do is yell "terrorism! terrorism!"

What is REALLY sad is that some of the speakers were complaining that they haven't even had a chance to read the bill and now they have to vote on it.

Watch as our privacy and rights go out the window...

It just passed.

They were supposed to be passing a bill about monetary relief to the people of NYC, but instead Hatch and Kyl pull this crap.

What in the hell is going on here???

"They that can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania..

Is it time for a group purchase on KY Jelly?

... what does the exact text say?

If it
gets stopped
for review and is
ammended it will
show up included in
a pre-approved bill, perhaps even
as a bill approving relief for NYC.

Maybe it IS SHTF time..... Bet that they SOMEHOW get more "gun laws" in there....

Hatch, I must admit, is a dissapointment.  He gets more and more liberal every vote, and is no longer any better than most of the Democrats.

[b]And[/b]

Maynard hit it on the head;

A different world from now on, indeed;  this has changed everything.  Only thing to do is sit back and watch it all unfold.

You know the most disturbing part was Leahy asked what the definition of "terrorist" was because it wasn't in the bill. Hatch wouldn't answer and kept screaming "law enforcement wants this!"

Intersting enough Leahy brought up the fact that he has a gun range behind his house and under this expanded wire tapping and computer monitoring if some "state invesitgator" came along and saw him shooting his pistols, there would be nothing stopping the "state investigator" from obtaining a wire tap under suspicion of "terrorism". And he SPECIFICALLY said this would be of concern to gun owners!

That .50bmg ban is all but guaranteed now.

This [b]NEEDS[/b] to be tacked up top. This could be the end of legal gunownership as we know it.

Or am I being paranoid??? I hope so...

[smoke]

The attacks will provide momentum for those who would remove freedoms in the name of safety. Very dark times indeed.

Is there anywhere to read about this bill yet?

Most sheep will welcome the tightening of the pen. Very few I'm afraid will voice concerns about keeping our Government in check during these times.

Most people will run to catch up to the bandwagon that will lead them deeper into socialism and the loss of never regained freedoms with the hope of childproofing the world.

Dear Mr. President,

As an American, I am outraged and saddened by the cowardly terrorist attacks on the World Trace Center and the Pentagon.
As a United States Marine, I want to go kick some ass!!
But mostly, as an American, raised on the principal that we have a Constitution, and a Bill of Rights, that limit what the government is allowed to do.
As my President, I fully support any act that you feel necessary to destroy the terrorists of the world, and any country that hosts terrorists.
As a Marine, I will follow any lawful order that you give.
But, as an American citizen, I fear that some things that are being talked about are going to go against everything that made this country great. Things like more bans of the type of firearms that Americans are allowed to own. Like giving up more personal freedom to things such as Carnivore, the e-mail reading program, a national id, and further restriction to the Second and Fourth Amendments.
Please, Mr. President, do not allow these trying times or these terrorists take away what has made America the beacon of light in this word... OUR FREEDOM!!!!


"They that can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Signed,

Sergeant  
United States Marine Corps


My e-mail to the President.

But I know it won't make a difference.. But it's worth the effort...


[smoke]

I haven't done a search yet. It was written today and voted on today and they all just had a stack of 10 pages in front of them.

Leahy read one section that went on and on like "section 9 is replaced by title 3 but not limited to paragraph a, under section 231(a), etc.". It was an entire PAGE of this. When he ask what it meant, no one could tell him.

.

I'm still trying to find text on this bill...

...nada

In the past, I have found delays of at least one day before the text of a bill on the floor makes it to the Internet.

It appears clear that few of the Senators actually read the text of what they voted on.  This is a travesty of legislation.

Yeah, Senate.gov was mentioning a day or two delay.  I thought perhaps one of the "pundits" would have something on it rather than the boilerplate that the major news outlets are running.

That is an understatment! Senators were saying "this bill is already passed" before the vote was even taken.

Wasn't Hatch one of the big supporters of the Clipper chip?