User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/3/2016 11:46:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CKxx]
Step on in and back up your election crap-talking! Instead of blathering on and on ad infintitum, put your PMAGs where your mouth is and memorialize it in this thread!
Quote the post of someone whose wager you accept and state that you accept their bet. They must then edit their post to reflect their having accepted YOUR bet in the event of multiple quotes. So... I will bet one new PMAG (30rd) that Hillary defeats Trump on election day. This challenge may be accepted by any Team Member, or regular member with over 20+ feedback. (I don't need a fly-by-night lurker who is nowhere to be found come November.) In the ludicrously unlikely event that Sanders gets the nomination, this bet is void. Any takers? EDIT: Locked in. Feel free to screen cap it. Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Originally Posted By CKxx:
Step on in and back up your election crap-talking! Instead of blathering on and on ad infintitum, put your PMAGs where your mouth is and memorialize it in this thread! Quote the post of someone whose wager you accept and state that you accept their bet. They must then edit their post to reflect their having accepted YOUR bet in the event of multiple quotes. So... I will bet one new PMAG (30rd) that Hillary defeats Trump on election day. This challenge may be accepted by any Team Member, or regular member with over 20+ feedback. (I don't need a fly-by-night lurker who is nowhere to be found come November.) In the ludicrously unlikely event that Sanders gets the nomination, this bet is void. Any takers? I'll take, now it's quoted. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2016 11:48:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By CKxx:
Step on in and back up your election crap-talking! Instead of blathering on and on ad infintitum, put your PMAGs where your mouth is and memorialize it in this thread! Quote the post of someone whose wager you accept and state that you accept their bet. They must then edit their post to reflect their having accepted YOUR bet in the event of multiple quotes. So... I will bet one new PMAG (30rd) that Hillary defeats Trump on election day. This challenge may be accepted by any Team Member, or regular member with over 20+ feedback. (I don't need a fly-by-night lurker who is nowhere to be found come November.) In the ludicrously unlikely event that Sanders gets the nomination, this bet is void. Any takers? Double or nothing. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2016 11:57:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pavlovwolf]
[#2]
I'll take it.
I'll send you a Pmag and the difference in price between that and a Lancer L5AWM, you send me a Lancer L5AWM. I don't Magpul. Or, loser sends USPS money order for the value of a Lancer. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2016 11:59:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CKxx]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pavlovwolf:
I'll take it. I'll send you a Pmag and the difference in price between that and a Lancer L5AWM, you send me a Lancer L5AWM. I don't Magpul. Or, loser sends USPS money order for the value of a Lancer. I have several of those in 20rd. Would that suffice as a bet against a 30? They appear to be the same price on amazon, EDIT: 20rd "smoke" color. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2016 11:59:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pavlovwolf:
I'll take it. I'll send you a Pmag and the difference in price between that and a Lancer L5AWM, you send me a Lancer L5AWM. I don't Magpul. Or, loser sends USPS money order for the value of a Lancer. I'll add. I have a Gen II from long ago, and a new Windowed PMag that came with my tavor. I'll send you those two and $5 , you send me one lancer |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2016 12:02:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Lucky_Day]
[#5]
I feel like if I take that bet, considering odds, you'd owe me a smoke lancer.
eta- BEAT! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2016 12:15:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pavlovwolf:
I'll add. I have a Gen II from long ago, and a new Windowed PMag that came with my tavor. I'll send you those two and $5 , you send me one lancer Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
I'll take it. I'll send you a Pmag and the difference in price between that and a Lancer L5AWM, you send me a Lancer L5AWM. I don't Magpul. Or, loser sends USPS money order for the value of a Lancer. I'll add. I have a Gen II from long ago, and a new Windowed PMag that came with my tavor. I'll send you those two and $5 , you send me one lancer I'd be A-OK with just one of the PMAGS vs my one PMAG. Quote the OP and state that you accept the terms based on a PMAG vs PMAG wager. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2016 1:09:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CKxx]
[#7]
A ton of pro-Trump insanity in GD, but no takers yet...
I'll check back in the morning. Also, just as a legal tip, an "acceptance" with additional terms is considered a counter-offer. No one has accepted my offer/bet in the OP. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2016 1:22:58 AM EDT
[#8]
I'll take your wager, straight up, as posted in the OP.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2016 1:23:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By CKxx:
Step on in and back up your election crap-talking! Instead of blathering on and on ad infintitum, put your PMAGs where your mouth is and memorialize it in this thread! Quote the post of someone whose wager you accept and state that you accept their bet. They must then edit their post to reflect their having accepted YOUR bet in the event of multiple quotes. So... I will bet one new PMAG (30rd) that Hillary defeats Trump on election day. This challenge may be accepted by any Team Member, or regular member with over 20+ feedback. (I don't need a fly-by-night lurker who is nowhere to be found come November.) In the ludicrously unlikely event that Sanders gets the nomination, this bet is void. Any takers? I'll take, now it's quoted. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2016 1:35:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Thank you sir.
Note that I'm still voting R no matter what, I just think Trump is a moron and I'm willing to back that with a $12 magazine. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2016 4:14:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Trump is a moron.....but he will get my vote.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2016 4:21:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Current Vegas odds:
Hillary 1/3 If someone wants to put up three PMAGS against one that Hillary wins I'd consider taking your action. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2016 10:10:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Awesome! Let's send this up for the morning crew and find you a taker.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 1:45:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Bizzarolibe]
[#14]
Aight Bill, let's go
And I'm calling it for Hillary of course. In the interest of good sportsmanship, I'll vote for Trump. My word is my honor. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 1:45:34 AM EDT
[#15]
I'll take a wager from Bizzarolibe
I'm calling it for Trump. He beat the whole Republican establishment without even trying. One more old hag shouldn't be a problem. One (1) new in wrap Pmag, (or $15.00 pay pal, if mags aren't available) Git in here and accept the terms. I'll quote it, and away we go. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 1:47:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillofRights:
I'll take a wager from Bizzarolibe I'm calling it for Trump. He beat the whole Republican establishment without even trying. One more old hag shouldn't be a problem. One (1) new in wrap Pmag, (or $15.00 pay pal, if mags aren't available) Git in here and accept the terms. I'll quote it, and away we go. Terms accepted. I'll make sure it's a nice gen3 FDE windowed one
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 1:47:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BillofRights]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bizzarolibe:
Aight Bill, let's go
And I'm calling it for Hillary of course. In the interest of good sportsmanship, I'll vote for Trump. My word is my honor. OK, done. In the interest of sportsmanship, I'll vote for Hilldog. J/K
if either dies, or the election is cancelled by Obama, the bet is null and void. |
|
|
|
AK, USA
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 1:57:21 AM EDT
[#18]
I would bet, but I am dirt poor and...........but good on you guys for putting a little fun into the Election.....
|
|
|
MS, USA
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 2:15:59 AM EDT
[#19]
I say Trump wins against Hillary or Sanders if he goes against either in the general and am willing to bet 3 new in wrapper non-windowed pmags. Quote this to take the bet. If Trump does not end up running, the bet is off.
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 3:09:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Mah_lee]
[#20]
ETA: Offer withdrawn due to lack of interest
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 3:22:39 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Current Vegas odds: Hillary 1/3 If someone wants to put up three PMAGS against one that Hillary wins I'd consider taking your action.
Jesus fucking Dollar Store English. Nobody even knows what side of the bet you are trying to offer. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 3:38:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wreckinturn4:
I say Trump wins against Hillary or Sanders if he goes against either in the general and am willing to bet 3 new in wrapper non-windowed pmags. Quote this to take the bet. If Trump does not end up running, the bet is off. Done. I accept. I also have 3 new in wrapper pmags. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 3:42:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Hunter-Killer]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Jesus fucking Dollar Store English. Nobody even knows what side of the bet you are trying to offer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Current Vegas odds: Hillary 1/3 If someone wants to put up three PMAGS against one that Hillary wins I'd consider taking your action.
Jesus fucking Dollar Store English. Nobody even knows what side of the bet you are trying to offer. It seems pretty straightforward to me. If someone wants to bet Hillary to win at 1/3 odds I'll consider taking their action. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 3:49:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: azeppelinfan]
[#24]
It would of been entertaining if the pit was still around.
No friggen way Trump wins a general election. I'll send pmags to ten individuals and buy a dang membership for someone if he does. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. EDT. I'm still going to vote for his dumbass. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 3:52:12 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azeppelinfan:
It would of been entertaining if the pit was still around. No friggen way Trump wins a general election. I'll send pmags to ten individuals and buy a dang membership for someone if he does. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Well if it's free to play sign me up for a bronze membership if Trump wins.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 3:56:40 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Well if it's free to play sign me up for a bronze membership if Trump wins.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Originally Posted By azeppelinfan:
It would of been entertaining if the pit was still around. No friggen way Trump wins a general election. I'll send pmags to ten individuals and buy a dang membership for someone if he does. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Well if it's free to play sign me up for a bronze membership if Trump wins.
You have a membershit and pmag if he does. Just remind me come November.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 4:00:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azeppelinfan:
You have a membershit and pmag if he does. Just remind me come November. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azeppelinfan:
Originally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Originally Posted By azeppelinfan:
It would of been entertaining if the pit was still around. No friggen way Trump wins a general election. I'll send pmags to ten individuals and buy a dang membership for someone if he does. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Well if it's free to play sign me up for a bronze membership if Trump wins.
You have a membershit and pmag if he does. Just remind me come November. Sounds good. Also can I assume you meant to type "membership" and not "membershit"?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 4:02:00 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Sounds good. Also can I assume you meant to type "membership" and not "membershit"?
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Originally Posted By azeppelinfan:
Originally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Originally Posted By azeppelinfan:
It would of been entertaining if the pit was still around. No friggen way Trump wins a general election. I'll send pmags to ten individuals and buy a dang membership for someone if he does. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Well if it's free to play sign me up for a bronze membership if Trump wins.
You have a membershit and pmag if he does. Just remind me come November. Sounds good. Also can I assume you meant to type "membership" and not "membershit"?
Maybe.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 4:04:24 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azeppelinfan:
Maybe. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azeppelinfan:
Originally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Originally Posted By azeppelinfan:
Originally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Originally Posted By azeppelinfan:
It would of been entertaining if the pit was still around. No friggen way Trump wins a general election. I'll send pmags to ten individuals and buy a dang membership for someone if he does. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Well if it's free to play sign me up for a bronze membership if Trump wins.
You have a membershit and pmag if he does. Just remind me come November. Sounds good. Also can I assume you meant to type "membership" and not "membershit"?
Maybe. You said "membership" in your first post so let's just go with that.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 8:11:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BillofRights]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azeppelinfan:
It would of been entertaining if the pit was still around. No friggen way Trump wins a general election. I'll send pmags to ten individuals and buy a dang membership for someone if he does. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. EDT. I'm still going to vote for his dumbass. Done. I'd like to reserve one of those Pmags. Thank you Sir. Very Generous of you. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 8:26:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Miami_JBT]
[#31]
Count me in. My signature should answer for me.
Update Deal |
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 4:26:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azeppelinfan:
It would of been entertaining if the pit was still around. No friggen way Trump wins a general election. I'll send pmags to ten individuals and buy a dang membership for someone if he does. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. EDT. I'm still going to vote for his dumbass. I'm in if you haven't found ten to take your free pmag bet. Also in need of a membership
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 4:34:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT: Count me in. My signature should answer for me. I'll take your bet. One Pmag goes to you if Trump wins. One Pmag goes to me if Hillary wins. Update your post if we're on. P.S. I'll be voting for Trump. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 4:41:25 PM EDT
[#34]
I started a thread like this in 2012 with the "Romney in a landslide" crowd. My thread got locked. Still made a wager and unfortunately still got my Pmag. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:03:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jaqufrost]
[#35]
I've got another PMAG available if anyone else wants to wager that Trump will win. My PMAG says he loses, your PMAG says he wins. Quote me and let me know you want to take the bet. I will edit my post with the user name of the person who accepts the bet. ETA: Bet Accepted by BrowardMason |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:03:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
I'll take your bet. One Pmag goes to you if Trump wins. One Pmag goes to me if Hillary wins. Update your post if we're on. P.S. I'll be voting for Trump. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By Miami_JBT:
Count me in. My signature should answer for me. P.S. I'll be voting for Trump. I could be wrong, but I think he was referring to the "free to play" bet azeppelinfan was offering. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:05:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bedouin2W]
[#37]
I got 10 PMAGs saying Trump will not carry NY or NJ.
Only open to team members with a waiver for those with 100% Positive EE feedback on 20+ transactions ETA- and must be living in a jurisdiction where 30 rd mags are legal if you want to collect, which is as hypothetical as the Rams winning the Super Bowl next year). Edit- bet accepted by wtfboombrb |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:12:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: I'll take your bet. One Pmag goes to you if Trump wins. One Pmag goes to me if Hillary wins. Update your post if we're on. P.S. I'll be voting for Trump. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: Count me in. My signature should answer for me. P.S. I'll be voting for Trump. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:14:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunter-Killer: I could be wrong, but I think he was referring to the "free to play" bet azeppelinfan was offering. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunter-Killer: Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: Count me in. My signature should answer for me. P.S. I'll be voting for Trump. I could be wrong, but I think he was referring to the "free to play" bet azeppelinfan was offering. But I'll throw some skin in the game |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:15:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bedouin2W:
I got 10 PMAGs saying Trump will not carry NY or NJ. Only open to team members with a waiver for those with 100% Positive EE feedback on 20+ transactions ETA- and must be living in a jurisdiction where 30 rd mags are legal if you want to collect, which is as hypothetical as the Rams winning the Super Bowl next year). Trump winning NY or NJ is fairly unlikely. Are you offering odds? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:15:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT: Deal Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT: Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: Count me in. My signature should answer for me. P.S. I'll be voting for Trump. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:21:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Trump winning NY or NJ is fairly unlikely. Are you offering odds? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
I got 10 PMAGs saying Trump will not carry NY or NJ. Only open to team members with a waiver for those with 100% Positive EE feedback on 20+ transactions ETA- and must be living in a jurisdiction where 30 rd mags are legal if you want to collect, which is as hypothetical as the Rams winning the Super Bowl next year). Trump winning NY or NJ is fairly unlikely. Are you offering odds? No man, you don't understand. Trump is from NY. He won their primary with more Republican votes than any Republican in Primary history. Future Attorney General Christie is going to pound that motherfuckin' pavement to make sure Trump wins NJ. And Christie won in NJ as a Republican, TWICE. Trump has NY and NJ in the bag. Now I feel stupid for putting such an offer out there for people to take advantage of 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:23:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Nobody would want one of my 10rd PMAGS anyway
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:31:38 PM EDT
[#44]
I'll take the bet.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:32:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
I've got another PMAG available if anyone else wants to wager that Trump will win. My PMAG says he loses, your PMAG says he wins. Quote me and let me know you want to take the bet. I will edit my post with the user name of the person who accepts the bet. I hope and say he wins. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:37:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BrowardMason: I hope and say he wins. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BrowardMason: Originally Posted By jaqufrost: I've got another PMAG available if anyone else wants to wager that Trump will win. My PMAG says he loses, your PMAG says he wins. Quote me and let me know you want to take the bet. I will edit my post with the user name of the person who accepts the bet. I hope and say he wins. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2016 5:50:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bedouin2W:
No man, you don't understand. Trump is from NY. He won their primary with more Republican votes than any Republican in Primary history. Future Attorney General Christie is going to pound that motherfuckin' pavement to make sure Trump wins NJ. And Christie won in NJ as a Republican, TWICE. Trump has NY and NJ in the bag. Now I feel stupid for putting such an offer out there for people to take advantage of Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
I got 10 PMAGs saying Trump will not carry NY or NJ. Only open to team members with a waiver for those with 100% Positive EE feedback on 20+ transactions ETA- and must be living in a jurisdiction where 30 rd mags are legal if you want to collect, which is as hypothetical as the Rams winning the Super Bowl next year). Trump winning NY or NJ is fairly unlikely. Are you offering odds? No man, you don't understand. Trump is from NY. He won their primary with more Republican votes than any Republican in Primary history. Future Attorney General Christie is going to pound that motherfuckin' pavement to make sure Trump wins NJ. And Christie won in NJ as a Republican, TWICE. Trump has NY and NJ in the bag. Now I feel stupid for putting such an offer out there for people to take advantage of 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/6/2016 12:36:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bedouin2W:
I got 10 PMAGs saying Trump will not carry NY or NJ. Only open to team members with a waiver for those with 100% Positive EE feedback on 20+ transactions ETA- and must be living in a jurisdiction where 30 rd mags are legal if you want to collect, which is as hypothetical as the Rams winning the Super Bowl next year). bump |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/6/2016 12:48:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Anastasios]
[#49]
I'll take one if still available.
ETA Or maybe not. Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
I got 10 PMAGs saying Trump will not carry NY or NJ. Only open to team members with a waiver for those with 100% Positive EE feedback on 20+ transactions ETA- and must be living in a jurisdiction where 30 rd mags are legal if you want to collect, which is as hypothetical as the Rams winning the Super Bowl next year). 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/6/2016 3:13:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb:
I'll take one if still available.
ETA Or maybe not.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb:
I'll take one if still available.
ETA Or maybe not. Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
I got 10 PMAGs saying Trump will not carry NY or NJ. Only open to team members with a waiver for those with 100% Positive EE feedback on 20+ transactions ETA- and must be living in a jurisdiction where 30 rd mags are legal if you want to collect, which is as hypothetical as the Rams winning the Super Bowl next year).
You taking this bet? |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
