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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/12/2002 2:31:33 PM EDT
I'm putting this in GD so it will get a little more exposure. How many would be interested in learning practical self defense (disarming, escaping holds, chokes, etc) at the next BRC? Women would be especially encouraged but I'd like to see everyone participate. I'm trying to get a general idea because I'm putting together a proposal for John and Tim. The seminar would probably be two hours in length and held daily by my martial arts instructor. I need to crunch the numbers to see how much it would cost to bring him out, mat rentals, etc. so there would be a fee involved to cover expenses... but this is not a "for profit" thing. I know a lot of people here have some martial arts training already and have volunteered to help (thank you!!) but I think, rather than having an all-volunteer effort with different styles, that it would be more efficient to have one instructor teach one program. If there was enough interest and pre-registration we could probably put together a kid's program, too. Please let me know if you would be interested.... this would be another pre-registered event like the PASA competitions.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 3:51:35 PM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 4:18:39 PM EDT
Post your picture, I might be interested in working on DT's with you
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 4:23:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 4:42:02 PM EDT
Feel free to use me for any demonstrations.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 4:58:04 PM EDT
If I were a woman at the BRC I would bring a can of Waverunner repelent. Just to be safe. [;D]
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 4:58:36 PM EDT
If I can make it to the 03 BRC I would be interested. ARH
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 5:00:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 5:39:28 PM EDT
Thank you for the replies so far... I want to make sure there is enough interest to warrant making the effort and committment. This is all for the benefit of those people who want to learn how to better defend themselves. If you'd read any of the threads on knife fighting you would know that a gun can be rendered ineffective under certain circumstances. There is also the situation where you are unarmed or have been caught by surprise. These will all be addressed. Any woman who is concerned about protecting herself will learn a TON of useful, practical and effective techniques for escaping from an attacker. As for the PASA events, I am trying to schedule this so it won't be in conflict with them. But I am also trying to generate enough interest to have one seminar a day so that, even if it does conflict on the day you are competing you can take it on another day.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 5:43:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 5:51:07 PM EDT
Nah.. a two hour seminar, same material, each day. I want to give as many people as possible a chance to learn how to defend themselves. Eight hours of martial arts training in one weekend with no prior experience would NOT be a fun time.... you'd end up looking like a car accident victim. [:p]
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 5:57:16 PM EDT
"a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" Japanese proverb
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 6:00:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 6:12:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: I want to give as many people as possible a chance to learn how to defend themselves.
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This course should be limited to MEN only ! [:D]
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 6:17:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Grock: "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" Japanese proverb
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Absolutely.. but you know that a few simple techniques correctly applied could make a world of difference.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 6:27:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: a few simple techniques correctly applied could make a world of difference.
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a kick in the ding ding will change an attackers world and his vocal octaves. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 6:34:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2002 6:41:20 PM EDT by jz02]
unless he expected that and wore a cup. [}:D]
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 6:54:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GUNSNOB: Post your picture, I might be interested in working on DT's with you
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She'd kick your ass and not even knock the ash off of her cigarette. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 7:28:25 PM EDT
After watching you kicking Wave's butt all over Illinois, you ain't laying a hand on me! [shock]
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 7:32:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lordtrader: a kick in the ding ding will change an attackers world and his vocal octaves. [:D]
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What if he's got you in a bear hug from the front? How do you make space to kick him in the ding ding? What if he grabs you from behind? How do you get out of a hold or a choke from that position to kick him in the ding ding? And, worse, some guys WON'T drop if you kick them in the ding ding.. it just pisses them off worse..... what then? .... come learn, grasshopper....
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 7:39:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: What if he's got you in a bear hug from the front? How do you make space to kick him in the ding ding? What if he grabs you from behind? How do you get out of a hold or a choke from that position to kick him in the ding ding? And, worse, some guys WON'T drop if you kick them in the ding ding.. it just pisses them off worse..... what then? .... come learn, grasshopper....
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Ahh but first you must ask????....why did you let an assailant get that close in the first place. If they don't drop after you kick em in the ding ding, spit their face and while distracted you kick em in the ding ding again and a leopard punch to the throat. As he backs up a jump spinning back kick to the solar plexus and running away would be nice. Sorry I'm just trying to hijack your thread to be a smart ass. [:)]
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 10:01:30 PM EDT
Anyone want me to also teach a self-defense seminar at BRC2? All that would be required is a cell or Satelite Phone and knowledge of how to program it. Afterwards there will be a screening of the latest in the More Dirty Debutantes series.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 10:31:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Attman:
Originally Posted By GUNSNOB: Post your picture, I might be interested in working on DT's with you
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She'd kick your ass and not even knock the ash off of her cigarette. [:D]
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I know, I just love physcial abuse.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 10:26:28 AM EDT
dude, that's not healthy.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 11:06:55 AM EDT
MM, thatis a good idea, tie it into the the forum and we all get together at the next BRC. Might consider that there are many of us here with extensive martail arts training to use the members first, diversity and no money to collect.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 4:39:46 PM EDT
I personally would love to see this happen. Tacked to top for a few...
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 7:42:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheWind:Might consider that there are many of us here with extensive martail arts training to use the members first, diversity and no money to collect.
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I have considered that.. and spoken with a couple people about it. Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians. Not to mention too many different styles. The people on this board live too far away to put together a class where everyone would be teaching the exact same technique. In addition, I think being an instructor is a true skill in and of itself. Mr Miran is an excellent instructor who is passionate about teaching and creating an environment where the student can learn and excel. Sometimes you truly get what you pay for.. [;)]
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 8:26:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: What if he's got you in a bear hug from the front? How do you make space to kick him in the ding ding?
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Grap a handful and squeeze real hard. A knee would also work.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 8:31:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Houston: Grap a handful and squeeze real hard. A knee would also work.
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Actually wouldn't work in some situations. Have someone grab you from the front in a bear hug.... and not a "play bear hug." Your hands will be pinned at your sides and you don't have enough room between your body and his to knee him. If someone grabs you in a bear hug, you immediately need to brace your hands on your attackers hip bones then step back... create space, followed by a knee to the body. You can also head butt. Besides, if your attacker is in control of you you don't want to simply piss him off by grabbing the family jewels if you don't have a way to get out... what if he doesn't let go?
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 10:15:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 10:55:17 AM EDT
Sign me up. I've never been in a fight, and never been threatend to be beat up. Waverunner's "drunken grappling" could take me out. Av.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 6:17:41 PM EDT
MM, I can see your point, but to bring in an instructor for pay, would take the BRC from an AR15 event to a martial arts event. As for too many chiefs, I have been involved with several systems in my 33 years of martial arts. There are always going to be conflicts of opinions in the martial arts. I would rather have an opportunity to work with those fellow practitioners in AR15.com, than see an instructor, I do not know about conduct, the seminar. Maybe we could form a group, connected to the self defense forum. Find out how many martial artists we have here, their affiliation. Then see what we have to work with at a BRC. I can appreciate the passion that you have for your sensei, but also that you are a novice. You have not experienced enough in the martial arts to know what passion to teach is and how many instructors have it. I have trained with many world class instructors, and have learned something new from each one. Yet some of the best training sessions I have had were a bunch of guys training because they love the art. The art is not in the dojo, it is in the heart, and there is alot of heart in AR15.com.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 7:24:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheWind: MM, I can see your point, but to bring in an instructor for pay, would take the BRC from an AR15 event to a martial arts event.
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Not at all. This would be another additional opportunity to experience something new and related to protecting oneself at a rifle convention.
I would rather have an opportunity to work with those fellow practitioners in AR15.com, than see an instructor, I do not know about conduct, the seminar.
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Yes... [i]you[/i] would like that opportunity.. as would I. But this is a basic self defense seminar.... it is specifically designed for people who have no little or no prior martial arts experience.
Maybe we could form a group, connected to the self defense forum. Find out how many martial artists we have here, their affiliation. Then see what we have to work with at a BRC.
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Please feel free to do so. My purpose in putting this seminar together is very clear... give tools to protect yourself to people who may not have them already.
I can appreciate the passion that you have for your sensei, but also that you are a novice.
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I am a novice in martial arts, yes. But I am not a novice in human nature. I appreciate your feelings but I think that what you are looking for is not what my intention is for this seminar. If you already feel confident in your ability to protect yourself and aren't curious about what the seminar might provide, then it's just not for you.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 9:05:54 PM EDT
I think it sounds pretty good. There are only a few things I know about fighting, all of which apply to the hypothetical situation above: 1. When in doubt, smash [i]something.[/i] What you smash is less important than the fact that you make it go squish real good. 2. Elbows and foreheads are harder than knuckles. It's all about the head butt. A front bear hug--head butt, if he's too short, dig your chin into eyeballs, if he's too tall for that, bite the nose. Hard. Now, I'm not an expert, so maybe this won't work. I've never tried the chin-in-the-eye thing. I know biting works. Tai Son Do.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 2:14:47 AM EDT
MM, good idea! Maybe we need to see where our resources lie.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 4:16:58 AM EDT
Again, The Wind, I can see you are insinuating that we try for volunteers from AR15.com. I have discussed this at length with other people and came to my conclusion for several reasons. 1) This is not an AR15.com convention... it is sponsored by AR15.com but it's organizers are trying to encourage the entire shooting community.. I don't want the seminar to have an air of "members only" to it. 2) I would like to offer a two hour seminar each day. Are you willing to give up several hours of each day and be available for all four days to teach? Probably not without resenting it if it is a volunteer effort. The only other alternatives are as follows: a) Have a different member lead the class each day. Well, we all train in different disciplines... the classes would end up having different curriculum and might confuse people. b) Have different members lead the class but come up with ONE curriculum that everyone would know. That would require getting everyone together from across the country to train in advance. Not very feasible. 3) There is a certain level of "my martial art is better than yours" in the community. Having different forms taught would foster that feeling... "sure, what you learned in karate is cool but check out what I can teach you from aikido." That's not about learning... that's about posturing. Those are some of the major reasons I think hiring someone outright (if there is enough interest) is the best idea. The curriculum would be consistent. The instructor is being paid to be there so there's no "I don't feel like doing this today." In addition, Mr Miran is a JKD instructor... meaning he teachs Kali, Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu. It is not exclusively take downs or exclusively grappling or exclusively stand up fighting. All of the aforementioned, plus weapons training, is incorporated making it a well-rounded program.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 10:33:31 AM EDT
I don't know squat about martial-arts. I'd be interested in trying it out, and I'd venture there'd be a few others like me as well. I am the target audience. While I don't know anything about Martial-arts, what I've noticed is that all you folks are very passionate about it. That's great, but it winds up getting in the way of the big picture. There seems to be an endless amount of variations of different martial arts. Everyone's version is touted as the best for whatever reason. "I've studied for 109 years", "I've learned under master X", "I'm a this belt or that belt", etc. That's great and all of you should be proud and passionate about what you're doing, but let's not loose focus of the purpose of what MM's trying to do. The purpose, as I understand it, is to just expose the unwashed masses (like me) who may be somewhat interested in trying it out, to some very basic self-defense techniques. So obviously this needs to be kept on the most base level. Rather than turning this into some martial-arts competition, we probably need to focus our energy towards that common goal. You Kung-fu guys can get together and beat each other senseless[;)] on your own. As the actual target audience though, I would rather just see something simple. Similar to what you would get at any two hour seminar in the big city on self-defense. That would ential a SIMPLE, specific lesson plan, and MM's approach of just sub-contracting it out makes the best sense to me given the logistics of distance you'd guys have to overcome. Obviously cost would be a factor. I'm not going to pay more than a couple bucks, if that, to try it out. I doubt anyone else will either, because if you are willing to fork out big bucks, you'd already be doing that. So we do need to keep it low-no cost to the audience. The concern of having to hire it out is a valid one. Cost MUST be kept down for this to work. The impossibility of getting the entire AR15.com Kung-Fu squad on the same sheet of music is also valid. From what I've read on the various threads having to do with martial-arts, it isn't going to happen. You guys can't even agree on how "Ju Jitsu" is spelled[:D] I'm not knocking anyone's intentions, nor anyone's form of martial arts (what, do I look THAT stupid?) but let's remain focused on the goal here which is to present a VERY brief, VERY basic self-defense block of instruction to those that may be interested. Ross
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 11:26:15 AM EDT
I would be interested.. I seem to attract creepy guys that begin conversations with "I don't mean this as a come on, but..." It's strange how the conversation ends up being full of nothing but ridiculous pick-up lines. Some knowledge of practical self-defense may prove to be very useful.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 6:44:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2002 6:49:33 PM EDT by FrankSquid]
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:16:20 PM EDT
Personally, I feel self defence courses are a waste of time and money. There's no way it's possible to learn and attain a technic that could save your life in a 2 hour session. That being said, I would love to volunteer to do some type of boxing/kickboxing/Thai boxing workout session. I'll stick to the basics and make it a gerenal workout that anyone can do. I won't promise you'll be able to get into the ring after this, but It'll be a great workout and a nice intro if you are interested in persuing this at a gym/school close to you.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:22:57 PM EDT
I would be interested in a beginning self defense class. My wife may. I'll ask her tomorrow and let you know. [):)]
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 8:47:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FrankSquid: ***Frank falls to the floor in pain, from Judys newly learned martial arts techniques*** "Ouch! What was that for?"
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Aww, C'mon. Don't tell me you didn't learn [i]any[/i] self-defense in the Navy? And yes, there is an air of "my martial art is better than yours". Aikido, for example...it really, totally blows. OK, OK, so I'm being facetious (sorta). I think the single instructor idea is prime - I know if I volunteered to instruct, I'd be incredibly critical of the other teachers' styles, pointing out flaws and better and/or easier ways to reach the same outcomes. In a sense, that's what it should be about ...but [i]not[/i] for a beginner class. It should be centralized with one person, and his or her own way of getting real-time results with simple, effective, and [b]easy to remember[/b] techniques. Adding more players into the mix just creates greater havoc and confusion. So rock on, MM - get your sensei to do a little wheelin' and dealin' at the BRC...I'll be looking forward to watching the show [^]
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 2:23:50 AM EDT
As for cost, that was my concern for the so called 'unwashed masses' $2,000 plus expenses would be reasonable for an instructor. I have paid $200 no problem for a weekend to train with Danny, or Paul. As for Jujitsu, Juijitsu, they are all correct, the form of the spelling is in the eyes of the Sensei. As for us at the BRC, depends on how close it is to home for us. I hope we can attend.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 4:34:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2002 4:54:45 AM EDT by Ross]
Originally Posted By Vinnie: Personally, I feel self defence courses are a waste of time and money. There's no way it's possible to learn and attain a technic that could save your life in a 2 hour session. That being said, I would love to volunteer to do some type of boxing/kickboxing/Thai boxing workout session. I'll stick to the basics and make it a gerenal workout that anyone can do. I won't promise you'll be able to get into the ring after this, but It'll be a great workout and a nice intro if you are interested in persuing this at a gym/school close to you.
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Sure, people aren't going to go compete after a couple hours at the BRC, just as there is no way they will win the Bianchi cup after a two hour block of instruction on basic gun safety either. No one's asking to be ready for the ring. It's just meant to be an exposure to martial arts to find out if people want to chase it any farther. Some folks may actually try it and decide to get serious about it. Others won't give it a second thought. Just like shooting, flying, hunting, anything. The best way for people to get involved is to just try it first. A routine as you describe sounds about right. The goal should be to just expose people to it to get them hooked (or not).
Originally posted by TheWind:As for cost, that was my concern for the so called 'unwashed masses' $2,000 plus expenses would be reasonable for an instructor. I have paid $200 no problem for a weekend to train with Danny, or Paul.
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That's a very valid concern. There are plenty of folks who would pay big money to go to Frontsite, Blackwater, etc as well. Very few people would do so for their first exposure to shooting though. It's a very good point. If it's going to cost the target audience big money, the only people that will pay will be people that would be paying big money for classes anyway. I'm willing to pay someone for their time and effort, but it needs to be attractive to a wide enough market. Ross
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 11:01:43 AM EDT
Speaking as a terribly junior member of the First Aid crew for last year (and presumably next year), I figure a Martial Arts seminar would be great for business. A few sprains, maybe a broken bone or two, a concussion, possibly a little heat stroke (if it's as hot as it was for this years BRC), might be nice to practice. I could use a little practice at trauma surgery--between the cars going up/down the hill as fast as they did, and a few unintentional blows to the head or joints, I might get a little bit to do. Fair warning, I'm only a student, so I might sew your spinal cord to your digestive tract by mistake, but hey, it's a learning experience!! [:D] PS--If we have to work on you, I figure our job is done once we hand out a couple of asprin and load you in the ambulance--wouldn't want to miss much of the BRC!!
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