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Posted: 5/3/2004 9:14:44 AM EST
I think this would be excellent. It would make it mandatory for people to voluntarily relinquish their established careers and condition them to appreciate all of the priviledges granted by the government.

Peace be with you.

Selective Service eyes women's draft
The proposal would also require registration of critical skills


By ERIC ROSENBERG
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON -- The chief of the Selective Service System has proposed registering women for the military draft and requiring that young Americans regularly inform the government about whether they have training in niche specialties needed in the armed services.

The proposal, which the agency's acting Director Lewis Brodsky presented to senior Pentagon officials just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, also seeks to extend the age of draft registration to 34 years old, up from 25.

The Selective Service System plan, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, highlights the extent to which agency officials have planned for an expanded military draft in case the administration and Congress would authorize one in the future.

"In line with today's needs, the Selective Service System's structure, programs and activities should be re-engineered toward maintaining a national inventory of American men and, for the first time, women, ages 18 through 34, with an added focus on identifying individuals with critical skills," the agency said in a Feb. 11, 2003, proposal presented to senior Pentagon officials.

Brodsky and Richard Flahavan, the agency's director of public and congressional affairs, reviewed the six-page proposal with Pentagon officials responsible for personnel issues. They included Charles Abell, principal deputy undersecretary for personnel and readiness, and William Carr, deputy undersecretary for military personnel policy.

The agency officials acknowledged that they would have "to market the concept" of a female draft to Congress, which ultimately would have to authorize such a step.

Dan Amon, a spokesman for the Selective Service System, based in Arlington, Va., said that the Pentagon has taken no action on the proposal to expand draft registration.

"These ideas were only being floated for Department of Defense consideration," Amon said. He described the proposal as "food for thought" for contingency planning.

Navy Lt. Cmdr. Jane Campbell, a spokeswoman for the Defense Department, said the Pentagon "has not agreed to, nor even suggested, a change to Selective Service's current missions."

Nonetheless, Flahavan said the agency has begun designing procedures for a targeted registration and draft of people with computer and language skills, in case military officials and Congress authorize it.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, say they oppose a revival of the military draft, last used in 1973 as the American commitment in Vietnam waned, beginning the era of the all-volunteer force.

Mandatory registration for the draft was suspended in 1975 but was resumed in 1980 by President Carter after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. About 13.5 million men, ages 18 to 25, currently are registered with the Selective Service.

"I don't know anyone in the executive branch of the government who believes that it would be appropriate or necessary to reinstitute the draft," Rumsfeld said last month.

At present, the Selective Service is authorized to register only young men and they are not required to inform the government about any professional skills. Separately, the agency has in place a special registration system to draft health care personnel in more than 60 specialties into the military if necessary in a crisis.

Some of the skill areas where the armed forces are facing "critical shortages" include linguists and computer specialists, the agency said. Americans would then be required to regularly update the agency on their skills until they reach age 35.

Individuals proficient in more than one critical skill would list the skill in which they have the greatest degree of competency.


Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:23:48 AM EST
Sounds good to me. I was registered for the ages of 18 - 34.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:25:48 AM EST
Ask all those women who Marched on Washington for equal rights if they thinks it's good idea.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:25:58 AM EST
I like it. But hurry up. I'm getting close to the limit.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:26:42 AM EST
It is good for them to have a plan.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:26:58 AM EST
I registered when I was 18 but I'm past the age limit now.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:28:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:30:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:33:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:33:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 9:38:11 AM EST by R-32]

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
I think this would be excellent. It would make it mandatory for people to voluntarily relinquish their established careers and condition them to appreciate all of the priviledges granted by the government.





You just want my job!

I put my time in the military already and still fit into the 18-35 limit!
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:36:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
...and requiring that young Americans regularly inform the government about whether they have training in niche specialties needed in the armed services.


Looked up the link, but don't see a list of "niche" specialties that Uncle is looking for... just curious...
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:39:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 9:41:29 AM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:41:03 AM EST
Why not? Years ago, in a country that vaguely resembles this one we had a draft.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:43:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:44:50 AM EST
Talk about a major wake up call. That would be the bad surprise of the century for all the spoiled little youngsters to suddenly find themselves in the chow line. I'd pay to see it.

"But, but I didn't sign up to be here sarge...I wanted to be a cook."

"GET YOUR FAT ASS OVER THERE PRIVATE PYLE! IF GOD WANTED YOU UP THERE HE WOULD HAVE MIRACLED YOUR ASS UP THERE!"

"I WILL MOTIVATE YOU IF IT SHORT DICKS EVERY CANNIBAL ON THE CONGO!"
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:52:55 AM EST
It's about time that an "equal rights" group gets equal risk & responsibilities. There would be a helluva lot less whiners if women could be drafted. A lot of them would be in the service instead of on the picket line &/or taking "mens" jobs.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:00:33 AM EST
Has anyone run this past the Million Moron Marchers out there?
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:36:21 PM EST
I've always been enamored with the Israeli practice of compelling military service for able bodied individuals. I'd like to be drafted, frankly. Sure I could sign up... but then I have to deal with the backlash in my personal life. The draft would give me a way out... how much crap could I possibly get from those close to me if I complied with a draft? Explaining why I chose to voluntarily leave would be a lot more difficult.

Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:48:52 PM EST
Woohooo! Love it. Too bad Gloria Steinam is too old to get drafted.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:53:13 PM EST
<-- 35 years old, damn it
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:56:55 PM EST
Interesting.

I used to be a competitive rifle shooter, and may start shooting Hi Power soon. Too bad they aren't looking for that skill...
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:58:54 PM EST
I'll submit to the draft if I get to be in a Ranger Btn. or on an SF team.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 1:02:14 PM EST
Good idea. Who the hel knows what the future holds for us. Im not trying to be a downer, but after 911 anything is possible in our future. Lets be prepared this time.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 1:24:59 PM EST
I, as a woman, have no problem with this idea. I have long believed that if a situation ever got so bad that our country needed to draft, that women should be required to serve as well as the men. We believe that women should be treated equally, right? Fine then, draft the women along with the men.

Another proposal. Anyone who takes public aid is drafted first. I have federal loans for school, and have no problem being told that I was going first as a condition of taking those loans. Don't know what I'd do, I have a bad back, but if there is anything that I can do, go for it.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 1:31:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By hardcase:
It's about time that an "equal rights" group gets equal risk & responsibilities. There would be a helluva lot less whiners if women could be drafted. A lot of them would be in the service instead of on the picket line &/or taking "mens" jobs.




Good post! I agree.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 1:51:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Selective Service wants to draft women and everyone up to 34 years old.


Imbroglio I wouldn't worry if I were you, I don't think they take grossly overweight/over the hill tin foil hat nuts.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 1:53:56 PM EST
Damn, I'm 35 in a few months!
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:01:23 PM EST
I do not agree with forced military service, or any type of service the government forces upon the people it governs. However, since the Selective Service System is already around, I would love nothing more than for them to finally require women to register as well. This would force all the "equal rights" champions, AKA vast majority of women, to put their money or rather their lives where their big fucking mouths are.

Good luck getting this passed, however. There will be such an uproar and cries of foul that it won't get past the proposal stage. Funny how they say men and women are equal, yet if there is a war and a draft women have a choice of serving or not while men are forced to serve. Of course, we have all the spineless pussy whipped "male" politicians to thank for this bullshit.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:22:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By A_G:
This would force all the "equal rights" champions, AKA vast majority of women, to put their money or rather their lives where their big fucking mouths are.





Too bad the ERA admendment wasn't passed.



Vulcan94



Oh, and I want the spell check back!
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:26:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By samsi:
Why not? Years ago, in a country that vaguely resembles this one we had a draft.



Old school!!!!
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:51:56 PM EST
The Neutral Observer has no problems with serving, and has repeatedly attempted to join any branch of the military. Damned army doctors.

However, The Neutral Observer will be damned if He is going to report any special skills He has to the army. It's, quite frankly, none of their damned business. The Neutral Observer also doesn't like the idea of serving with women who want to be there, much less women (or men, for that matter) that are forced to unwillingly. The Neutral Observer cannot quite place His finger on it, but the idea of being forced to report any personal information is annoying as hell. As far as the woman thing goes, maybe The Neutral Observer is just an asshole, but it's just not right that they be put in harm's way.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:59:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:
I've always been enamored with the Israeli practice of compelling military service for able bodied individuals. I'd like to be drafted, frankly. Sure I could sign up... but then I have to deal with the backlash in my personal life. The draft would give me a way out... how much crap could I possibly get from those close to me if I complied with a draft? Explaining why I chose to voluntarily leave would be a lot more difficult.




So... you want to serve, you think it's the right thing to do, but you won't do it currently because you're afraid of what the people in your life will think? You'd like the goverment to "make" you do what you lack the fortitude to do on your own?

Read your own statement over carefully. Think about it. Then make some decisions.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 4:01:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By tjmz:
I, as a woman, have no problem with this idea. I have long believed that if a situation ever got so bad that our country needed to draft, that women should be required to serve as well as the men. We believe that women should be treated equally, right? Fine then, draft the women along with the men.

Another proposal. Anyone who takes public aid is drafted first. I have federal loans for school, and have no problem being told that I was going first as a condition of taking those loans. Don't know what I'd do, I have a bad back, but if there is anything that I can do, go for it.



Would you really want those people defending you? (Public aid type) Do you think they are trainable into a serious fighting force? I personally want a higher caliber of person in the armed forces.
But as for me, I already did my time and am now too old anyway.

Oh yeah, definitely draft the women, every last one of them if possible, let them experience "equality" on a first hand basis.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 4:07:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By magnum_99:
I'll submit to the draft if I get to be in a Ranger Btn. or on an SF team.



Why wait to be drafted?
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 4:10:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 4:12:21 PM EST by LARRYG]
More copy and paste bullshit from Imbroglidiot. Sounding more like an ultra-left moron every day.

BTW, your title, as usual, is misleading. There is a big difference between registering and drafting.

I know, don't confuse you with facts, right.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 4:19:53 PM EST
I kid you not - I've been agonizing over this since my wife "heard on the news" that some politico-types were discussing bringing back the draft. I'm finally working again after two and a half years of un-/under-employment. We're trying to start a family and have just dealt with (I pray to God our only) miscarriage. I've got a good(ish) income, family responsibilities and a wife that needs me. And every time I hear about these boys and girls fighting and sometimes dying over there, I feel like a fucking spoiled coward.

My wife and I came to an agreement. I don't talk shit about signing up while there are willing troops on the ground but, if the draft comes back, I'm there. I hate I.T. but I've been in it since I was 17 and am good with computers. I'm not fluent in anything (even English, if you ask me) but am kind of wired for linguistics and have easily picked up whatever I've gotten from CDs and continuing ed classes. I'm just now 34. I'm in fair shape, do a lot of hiking and camping for fun and am a more-than-fair shot. I'm not talking smack because I'm not exactly sprinting down to the recruiters' office but I am telling you right now that it wouldn't take much of an excuse to get me there.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 4:26:40 PM EST
sounds good as far as giving my 20 year old son a kick in the ass. Myself, being 40, I joined a component of the NG. It is called the military reserve or state guard. We have a NG adviser and train to army standards. I go in front of the promotions board next week and should walk out an e5. We would be used in place of guard units activated, or locations requiring extra attention in our state. In my state you have two choices, medic or mp. I chose mp. Other states have reserve units. You would have to ask your state reps or governors office. I was 11b 20 years ago, although proir service is not required.hug.gif
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 5:06:12 PM EST
I'll be 39 later this month. But I'm in better fighting shape now than I was when I was active duty in the Air Force in my early 20's.

The only reason I'm not in the reserves NOW is that somehow, somebody screwed up and I got the wrong discharge code on my DD214. I KNOW it was a clerical error, but trying to get it changed to what it should be would be very difficult and time consuming. In fact, nobody seems to really know how to get it changed. I've asked. The one suggestion that has been made that probably WILL work is to ask my Congressional district Representative to take my case to the Armed Services Committee, but that's probably an overkill solution.

If I got a notice that I'm being drafted right now, I'd willingly go.


If there was ONE thing I could change about the military, it would be to remove all artificial restrictions from all career fields. If you want ANY field, you just have to pass tests for it first, and compete among other eligible people for open slots, with the competition being based on demonstratable abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and nothing else. I don't think, for example, that the job of pilot should be restricted only to people who have a Master's Degree and perfect uncorrected vision. If you can pass the tests and can achieve perfect functional vision with the aid of contacts or glasses, and can wear the helmets and goggles used by pilots without a problem while wearing glasses, why shouldn't you be accepted as eligible?

I also think all age limits (upper age limits) should be removed. Some people are healthier and tougher at 40 than they were at 30 or maybe even in their 20s. I certainly am.

CJ

Link Posted: 5/3/2004 5:16:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
I think this would be excellent. It would make it mandatory for people to voluntarily relinquish their established careers and condition them to appreciate all of the privileges granted by the government.


There are no "privileges granted by the government" only rights that are guaranteed by the government.



Peace be with you.



[Recovering Catholic]
And with you.

[/Recovering Catholic]
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 5:49:03 PM EST
I recently applied to become a voluntary member of our local SServ Board...remembering the mismanagement that took place during the Vnam war, the lottery, the b.s. in general.

Gwen
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 5:55:49 PM EST
What a way to rip up a family! Send mom and dad off to war, great idea, but where does that leave junior? What if mom stays home and takes care of junior? There are still some traditional families left. So does Uncle Sam pick up the tab for the child care? Hell, what if dad takes care of the kids, and mom works? Not uncommon these days....

Family situations these days are a little more complex than WWII or even Vietnam.

Draft my 90lb wife? Somone has to take care of the home front when I deploy.....

And... What a way to ruin a political carreer! Im sure the draft would go over well with John Q Voting public.... The sure ticket to any re-election campaign!

I admit, it would be neat if every kid out of high school had to do two years in the military....... But I dont think we would ever see it happen.


Link Posted: 5/3/2004 6:10:32 PM EST
They should give people who are in prison, in the U.S. a choice to stay in jail or go fight, it would save us money since we all ready have to feed and house them.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 6:56:26 PM EST
Leaving aside the arguement that a volunteer military is an important check on the power of the state, reduces the likelyhood of politicians waging immoral wars and results in a more professional force, the draft is clearly unconstitutional.

What part of "there shall be no involuntary servitude" don't you understand?
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 8:19:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By pv74:
What a way to rip up a family! Send mom and dad off to war, great idea, but where does that leave junior? What if mom stays home and takes care of junior? There are still some traditional families left. So does Uncle Sam pick up the tab for the child care? Hell, what if dad takes care of the kids, and mom works? Not uncommon these days....

Family situations these days are a little more complex than WWII or even Vietnam.

Draft my 90lb wife? Somone has to take care of the home front when I deploy.....

And... What a way to ruin a political carreer! Im sure the draft would go over well with John Q Voting public.... The sure ticket to any re-election campaign!

I admit, it would be neat if every kid out of high school had to do two years in the military....... But I dont think we would ever see it happen.





Women want equality? Great, give it to them and FORCE them to register JUST LIKE MEN. Then we'll see just how many of the spoiled bitches scream for equality!

By the way, there would never be a situation where both parents would be drafted, don't get hysterical. Furthermore, if your wife is unfit for military service, that's fine. Plenty of men are unfit as well. However, they still have to register and so should all women.

Political careers? Fuck the politicians, they have been fucking men over for a generation. Let them get some of their own shit to eat.

It's a shame women will never be forced to register let alone be drafted (by the way there are plenty of jobs women can do in the military, not just be thrown in combat which would be a detriment anyway). Indeed it would be the ultimate test of their real desire for "equality". As it stands now they are more equal.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:22:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By GaryM:

Originally Posted By tjmz:
I, as a woman, have no problem with this idea. I have long believed that if a situation ever got so bad that our country needed to draft, that women should be required to serve as well as the men. We believe that women should be treated equally, right? Fine then, draft the women along with the men.

Another proposal. Anyone who takes public aid is drafted first. I have federal loans for school, and have no problem being told that I was going first as a condition of taking those loans. Don't know what I'd do, I have a bad back, but if there is anything that I can do, go for it.



Would you really want those people defending you? (Public aid type) Do you think they are trainable into a serious fighting force?



No, I don't they are very trainable, but I for one wouldn't feel to bad having all the public aid locusts on the front lines being used as cannon fodder.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:34:14 PM EST
here he comes again
mister vested interest
angry at the world
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 6:40:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By SDavid:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
I think this would be excellent. It would make it mandatory for people to voluntarily relinquish their established careers and condition them to appreciate all of the privileges granted by the government.


There are no "privileges granted by the government" only rights that are guaranteed by the government.



That's the whole point.

But then how does the government force people into the military? I'm against the draft. You can't force people to love their country enough to defend it.

I joined at 17 with parents signature and served for eight years, as a qualifier.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 9:43:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

Originally Posted By legalese77:
I've always been enamored with the Israeli practice of compelling military service for able bodied individuals. I'd like to be drafted, frankly. Sure I could sign up... but then I have to deal with the backlash in my personal life. The draft would give me a way out... how much crap could I possibly get from those close to me if I complied with a draft? Explaining why I chose to voluntarily leave would be a lot more difficult.




So... you want to serve, you think it's the right thing to do, but you won't do it currently because you're afraid of what the people in your life will think? You'd like the goverment to "make" you do what you lack the fortitude to do on your own?

Read your own statement over carefully. Think about it. Then make some decisions.



No, not afraid of what people will think. Not anxious to let down people who are counting on me. If I didn't have a choice, I could at least rationalize away any guilt I felt for leaving those who rely on me. Furthermore, unlike most people in life that I encounter that have all the answers, I don't. If it turned out to be the wrong decision, I would have nobody to blame but myself. This, of course, doesn't begin to scratch the surface of all the considerations that are truly at play here.

Before you start hurling nasty little insults about a lack of fortitude, why don't you sit and think about some aspect of your life that you could improve. Perhaps you, like so many others, are so wise and powerful that you could not err and there is no possible room for improvement in your own life and so your only purpose in life is to take pot shots at people through the internet who are clearly lesser than you.

As a matter of fact, fuck you. I've noticed that almost anytime someone expresses an opinion around here, some smug know-it-all has to take some cheap shot without even bothering to know one fact about a person. Then, as a defense against total lack of knowledge and understanding, a person is judged wholly on whatever limited text appears in a thread. Take your own advice and read the post. It's your totally unfounded assumption that my statement has the slightest thing to do with what some unidentified people think. Now that you've raised the issue, yes, I do care about what a select few people think. We can't all be stone cold lone wolf fearless ninja killers. Some of us have family, etc. that depend on us. Abandoning those people, should not be done lightly... but of course what do I know...that's a thing for men of fortitude and I hear that unless you sign up for the military you are gutless shit who is good for nothing.

Fuck you and your small-minded assumptions. I'm not perfect. I'm open to constructive criticism and insightful observations but you can keep your insults. We all have to make difficult choices. Sometimes, it's nice to not have to take responsibility once in a while. Sorry I can't be as smart/strong/well-read/courageous/heroic/patriotic/[insert holier than thou adjectives here] as you.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 7:32:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 7:48:53 AM EST by tommytrauma]
quote]Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

Originally Posted By legalese77:
I've always been enamored with the Israeli practice of compelling military service for able bodied individuals. I'd like to be drafted, frankly. Sure I could sign up... but then I have to deal with the backlash in my personal life. The draft would give me a way out... how much crap could I possibly get from those close to me if I complied with a draft? Explaining why I chose to voluntarily leave would be a lot more difficult.




So... you want to serve, you think it's the right thing to do, but you won't do it currently because you're afraid of what the people in your life will think? You'd like the goverment to "make" you do what you lack the fortitude to do on your own?

Read your own statement over carefully. Think about it. Then make some decisions.



No, not afraid of what people will think. Not anxious to let down people who are counting on me. If I didn't have a choice, I could at least rationalize away any guilt I felt for leaving those who rely on me. Really? I couldn't Furthermore, unlike most people in life that I encounter that have all the answers, I don't. If it turned out to be the wrong decision, I would have nobody to blame but myself. Wow. Hell of a concept. This, of course, doesn't begin to scratch the surface of all the considerations that are truly at play here. We're all responsible for the decisions we make in life. Hell of a thought, huh? Personally, I don't WANT the goverment to absolve me of such responsibilities. You stated that you want to be drafted, but then you say that your leaving would be abandoning poeple who depend on you. So you're saying that you want an excuse to abandon your responsabilities. Think it through. All I'm donig is paraphrasing what you say

Before you start hurling nasty little insults about a lack of fortitude, why don't you sit and think about some aspect of your life that you could improve. Perhaps you, like so many others, are so wise and powerful that you could not err and there is no possible room for improvement in your own life and so your only purpose in life is to take pot shots at people through the internet who are clearly lesser than you. Nope, I've made a wagon load of mistakes, and am sure that I'll make more. But... I take full and unmitigated responsibility for my actions, including my mistakes. I don't want anyone to "force" me into doing what I want so I can rationalize away the consequences of my actions. I'm sorry that you feel it's a "nasty little insult", but wanting the goverment to take responsibility for your life and for difficult decisions does indeed appear to be a lack of fortitude to me. How would you characterize it? Do you honestly think it's GOOD to want the goverment to make the difficult decisions in your life for you?

As a matter of fact, fuck you. No thanks, I don't swing that way. I've noticed that almost anytime someone expresses an opinion around here, some smug know-it-all has to take some cheap shot without even bothering to know one fact about a person. I responded directly to your post, and limited my response to the contents of your post. You catagoricially stated that you wished the goverment would draft you so you could serve without having to take responsibility for the consequences of doing so. I replied only to that statement. The fact that you read my reply as a condemnation of your whole life says a lot about how you feel. Then, as a defense against total lack of knowledge and understanding, a person is judged wholly on whatever limited text appears in a thread. That's pretty much the nature of internet discussion boards, is it not? Take your own advice and read the post. It's your totally unfounded assumption that my statement has the slightest thing to do with what some unidentified people think. Now that you've raised the issue, yes, I do care about what a select few people think. So, my unfounded assumption was correct then? Or it...wasn't? Guess I'm missing your point there. My "assumption" was based on your statement "how much crap could I possibly get from those close to me if I complied with a draft?". I guess I simply don't see it as unfounded or an assumption, rather a paraphrasing of your statement. We can't all be stone cold lone wolf fearless ninja killers. Interesting hyperbole. I'm addressing how one makes decisions in ones life, and how one takes responsibility for such decisions. I hope for such self responsibility from all adults, not just stone cold ninja killers. You're the one confusing fortitude with machismo. Some of us have family, etc. that depend on us. Abandoning those people, should not be done lightly... Absolutely true. I recently passed up an oppertunity to work as a contract medic overseas [Edit / clarification; An oppertunity to apply fr such a position] because I have kids, stable jobs, a wife and a mortgage. The thing is, I really don't wish that someone would "force" me to go so I could dodge out on those responsibilities without feeling guilty. By your own statement, you do. but of course what do I know...that's a thing for men of fortitude and I hear that unless you sign up for the military you are gutless shit who is good for nothing. If you heard that, it was from within yourself, because I don't believe and have never said any such thing. It is easier to defend yourself from something like that then from what I actually said though, isn't it? I wasn't addressing whether or not you enlist. I was addressing your wish that the goverment would force you to do something, so you would not have to take responsibility for that type of decision. I'm not telling you to enlist. Serving in the military doesn't make you a man. Some of the people I respect most never served, and some of the people I feel the most contempt for did serve. I'm not advocating enlistment. I'm advocating taking responsibility for your own life and own decisions. Listen to this carefully: Wanting the goverment to make difficult decisions regarding your personal life so you don't have to is bad. That is the grand sum of my point here.

Fuck you and your small-minded assumptions. I'm not perfect. I'm open to constructive criticism and insightful observations but you can keep your insults. We all have to make difficult choices. Yup, and we need to own up to them.Sometimes, it's nice to not have to take responsibility once in a while. Nice not to have to take responsibility for your own life? Maybe, but the price is waaaay too high. In both of my jobs, I deal with people who refuse to take responsibility for their own lives, and with the goverment programs which allow them to do so. If you want to be like them, at least admit it. If you don't, then stop wishing aloud that the goverment would "force" you to do something that you believe would be abandonment of your family and responsibilities. Sorry I can't be as smart/strong/well-read/courageous/heroic/patriotic/[insert holier than thou adjectives here] as you. Me too. While the majority of us are willing to face up to the responsibilities of being an adult and a free man, our numbers are slipping. The people who believe it's the goverment's responsibility to take care of all of us are growing in number daily. I guess I had a stereotypic view of gun owners as more self-responsible then the general population.



Link Posted: 5/5/2004 7:38:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 7:41:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Interesting.

I used to be a competitive rifle shooter, and may start shooting Hi Power soon. Too bad they aren't looking for that skill...



My thought exactly
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