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Posted: 10/2/2005 4:50:11 AM EDT
I don't like mean dogs.  I would just as soon shoot them.  What I want is a dog that will sleep in the front room and alert us if someone trys to come in the house during the night.  I don't want a dog that barks every time a car drives past or some other stupid reason (I don't want the dog that cries wolf)

This dog has to be good around kids.  It needs to have endurance (I spend a lot of time hiking)

Any idea on good breeds?  I was thinking of a German Shepherd.

What about good books on how to train a dog like this?  I have a lot of experience training labs to hunt, but this is a whole different ball game.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:53:53 AM EDT
[#1]
I will always have a G S D.
log onto leerburg.com for many great training articles.
Ed Frawley is a great trainer.
gotta run, good luck.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:53:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Get a German Shep.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:58:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Here's mine.  Loyal and well armed

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:59:12 AM EDT
[#4]
Yep, go for the Shep.

Mine is very protective of her "pack", and surprisingly territorial for a female.
You could not get into my house quietly without her knowing about your presence.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:03:43 AM EDT
[#5]
I would agree on a german shepherd, but anymore you have to have the right breeding for the german shepherd to retain the working qualities they were bred for. A lot of american breeders have bred the working caliber out of them because they bred for looks or $s, with working ability not considered. So there's many german shepherds who aren't the best guard dogs, good dogs, just not working dogs.

I would recommend buying from a working breeder with european lines, german, czech, somewhere where they still breed for working ability.

Not that there aren't good working dogs in american lines, just a lot that aren't also, where europeans have been more strict with dog breeding.

But whether or not your going to work with or excercise the dog often is a big factor because german shepherds have to have something to do.

As for endurance though, german shepherds have a lot of it, I also do a lot of hiking ect, and they're great in the woods, but, in my honest opinion a medium sized dog is best for endurance and handles a lot of hiking impact better than large breeds over their lifetime.

You also might consider an australian cattle dog. Very tough dogs, smaller, with endurance that would be tenfold what you'd ever be able to do on a hike.
They are also very loyal to their pack.

You also might look at breed rescues or even at the humane society. There are lots of great dogs who can do most things who are mixes and they're often even more loyal for being rescued.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:09:13 AM EDT
[#6]
this is my cattle dog, blue, not certain how old he is cause we got him off the mountain 1 night in '01, oddly he is not real active like most cattle dogs so he might be older.
But he's very tough.



and 2 of my german shepherds, thor, german working lines, in the black and white photo.
and fenris, czech bred,.



Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:35:33 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
I will always eventually have a G S D.
log onto leerburg.com for many great training articles.
Ed Frawley is a great trainer.
gotta run, good luck.



Link Posted: 10/8/2005 8:51:11 PM EDT
[#8]
I can find tons of books on general training.  Any suggestions for a good book on training a dog for security?  I don't need a K-9 dog.  Just a dog that doesn't suck.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 8:59:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Belgian Malinois.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:06:02 PM EDT
[#10]
My GSP makes an excellent first alert as well as a calm, healthy companion.  However so does my Sheltie.

Patty
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:38:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Rottweiler.

Both of mine are rescues, and as sweet as can be.  The kids use one as a pillow for nap time, and the other one has been the crutch for small children to begin walking (pulling themselves up from crawling by pulling out fistfulls of hair).

Neither has been security trained (read Shutzhund) but both will scare the dickens out of the uninvited solicitors.

Loyal, loving, and sometimes too smart for their own good.  Scary looking dogs that wouldn't hurt a fly.


Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:51:49 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
I don't like mean dogs.  I would just as soon shoot them.  What I want is a dog that will sleep in the front room and alert us if someone trys to come in the house during the night.  I don't want a dog that barks every time a car drives past or some other stupid reason (I don't want the dog that cries wolf)

This dog has to be good around kids.  It needs to have endurance (I spend a lot of time hiking)

Any idea on good breeds?  I was thinking of a German Shepherd.

What about good books on how to train a dog like this?  I have a lot of experience training labs to hunt, but this is a whole different ball game.



This keeps coming up.  There are a few other threads around in the last couple of weeks that have discussed the same general question. You might want to look them up.

Look at Shiloh Shepherds -- perfect German Shepherds times two. Bred from the best of the GSD line for high intelligence, mild temperament for families, good health (hips), and quite large -- minimum 120 pounds for males, 100 pounds for females. Mine is 160 pounds. These are really impressive dogs.

Mine will literally let a two-year-old lead him around by the collar. He loves kids and will sit by the door and cry on the days he knows my two-year-old granddaughter is coming over.

At the same time he is fiercely protective of the family and the house. Scary as hell when he is being protective, too. Imagine a pissed-off German Shepherd about the size of the average man. He stops people at the door. If we let them into the house, he stops them again if they attempt to go down the hall. We have to tell him they have permission to use the bathroom. Do not try to come into my bedroom, sneak up behind me, corner me in a room, or appear to be a threat in any way.

Shilohs would be useless to train as real guard dogs, though. They just don't have the motivation and mine is not interested in doing anything that would take him away from my side. They generally aren't interested in guarding anything but the home and the family.

Very obedient, very easy to train and control, and the most attentive dog I have ever seen. He watches me for instructions 24 hours a day. I can't make a move without him watching over me. He responds to single finger commands without me even looking at him.

He required just about zero training and often picks up new commands the first time I try to teach him. He did all the basic commands by either hand or verbal signals when he was three months old (a month after I got him) without training. If I do something twice the same way, he will pick up on the pattern by the third time I do it, whether I was trying to train him or not.

He will stop whatever he is doing, even eating and chasing rabbits, and come to me immediately if I just clap my hands or snap my fingers. He learned that the first time I tried it. Just FYI, it is suprisingly convenient to have a dog that will come to your side and await commands any time you just snap your fingers.

I wouldn't call him the greatest dog on endurance, especially on hot days, but that seems to be just him. Other Shiloh owners report that they go biking with their dogs.

Both of these pictures were taken when he was about a year old and about 110 pounds or so.  I got mine from a breeder majestic-knights-shilohs.com who does one litter at a time in her home, so my dog was raised in a home around kids from birth. The breeder's name is Shari. Tell her Chopper sent you. They typically cost about $1,000 for pet quality (non-breeding), $2,000 for breeding quality, and $3,000 or more for show quality. Pet quality dogs are perfectly fine dogs, they just don't have all the breed conformation of the show dogs.

I get so many questions about mine that I put up a web page with more info about him. Chopper



Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:53:55 PM EDT
[#13]
+1 for the Rotties!  But I'm a little bias  Dexter is the best dog I've ever had...  Socialized him a little too much in fear of people being scared of him... Now I have a 100lb lap dog  

He's not much of a barker, but will huff & puff to let me know something isn't normal/right...  He also has an incredible ability to pick up on my body language or mood.  A few times I've heard bumps in the night and grabbed my pistol and flashlight to investigate.  He's right next to me, ears and hairs raised, stopping occasionally just like a birddog with one front leg raised, frozen in mid step...







Mandatory MeanDawg Pic



EPOCH

Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:01:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Belgian Malinois, all the nicities of a GSD, less hair all over the house.




Info
A BM reccue
More info
Still more info
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:03:32 PM EDT
[#15]
ON a side note I would seriously caution against a Rotweiler if you have kids, or if you have lots of people around.  I speak from experience they will do anything to protect the family but do not handle new people well.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:05:08 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
I can find tons of books on general training.  Any suggestions for a good book on training a dog for security?  I don't need a K-9 dog.  Just a dog that doesn't suck.



www.leerburg.com has a lot of good information on training dogs for security. But, from my reading of the site, you probably wouldn't want to do that with a dog that was going to live in your home.  It takes a lot of work, a relationship different than the normal family-dog relationship, and you are teaching the dog potentially dangerous behaviors.

Your best bet is to just get a dog that doesn't suck naturally. If the dog does suck naturally, then you aren't going to make it a good watch dog unless you abuse it bad enough to make it downright mean.

Shilohs are supposed to be the mildest, meekest of the GSDs but I had to do a fair amount of work with mine to get him to tone down the protectiveness.  He is three years old and he still won't let another dog get near me. He also drew serious blood on a guy who tried to come through the back door when my wife was home alone.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:22:44 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:
ON a side note I would seriously caution against a Rotweiler if you have kids, or if you have lots of people around.  I speak from experience they will do anything to protect the family but do not handle new people well.



Never done Rottweiler rescue, huh?

Ask any of the WI hometown folks who've met my dogs how they handle new people.  Both like to sit on any available apendage and give kisses within 30 seconds of the new folks walking in the door...which is pretty much standard for socialized Rotts.

Just like with any dog, how they are trained/raised/treated has a lot to do with their behavior.  

Heck, I remember when GSD's were the "killer" breed (70's), and yet they now receive overwhelming positive endorsements from folks here.  Did the breed change?  No.  The old attitudes were overcome by truth.

Convert; I am admittedly biased towards Rotties, but GSD's are wonderful dogs as well.  See if you can find a rescue for either breed in your area to "try before you buy".  I'm sure you'll find the right dog for you.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:09:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Best pic ever...! I always laugh my ass off whenever you post it!

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:12:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Watch "IT TAKES A THIEF" on the Discovery Channel.


Pets don't end up working very well as protection.



That said, my little dogs bark their heads off when I come down the stairs to go to bed, so I know they will alert on an intruder, at least at night
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:13:51 AM EDT
[#20]
And as others have said, it's hard to beat a Rott or a GSD...


Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:27:48 AM EDT
[#21]
The one thing to consider is that many of the dogs mentioned shed a ton. I have a weimaraner and a vizsla(rescue). The vizsla is a velcro dog that will attempt to get inbetween me and a train if necessary. You can't train these dogs to deal cards like a GSD, but they are low maintainance.

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:35:59 AM EDT
[#22]
My little dog use to be a great watch dog.  He's getting old and he'll sleep through a nuclear explosion now.  He's still my buddy and he's got a home as long as he's alive.  

Now my parrot has taken over the intruder alert job.  He'll squawk up a storm when anyone is at the door.  Parrots live a long time so he should be a working alarm for many years.  

P.S.  I really hate that parrot and he hates everyone.  


Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:41:07 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:
Belgian Malinois.




No matter what you cannot forget that you have a working dog. You cannot go out and pick up any old working dog and say that it will be a good dog. You will want to first find a trustworthy breeder and make sure that they are aware of what you want. A lot of good breeders would not even sell you a certain dog from certain bloodlines if you have a family.

Heres an excerpt from a breeder/trainer concerning his Belgian Malinois: (no way am I saying that all BM's are like this, drive and determination like this is not common and dogs like this are meant for working or competition)

"He is to civil with the handler (Handler hard) for sport.  (It is important to have a very social dog with the handler for sport.  He can be civil with the decoy, but not with the handler.  The social vertues of a sport dog is what allows you to clean a dog up in his guards and escort in french ring).  He will try to eat you when you try to clean him up.  He is to strong for double prong panic corrections.  He does not even feel them.  He has extreme retreival and hunt drive.  He is very possesive.  When he comes out of his cage he has to go find something to put in his mouth.  Do not try to take it from him either.  He always is carrying something in his mouth.  If he is loose in the yard.  I his master cannot pick up anything from the yard.  If I do he will attack me.  He thinks everything in the yard belongs to him. I have to have a leash on him to be able to do so. If he is loose with his bitches.  I can't even look or much less talk to one of his females.  Those are his females."


choose wisely
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:41:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Meet Reggie. 100 plus pounds of male brindle boxer.
Best dog I have ever owned. Smart and fiercely protective of me and my wife and our house.

Extremely intelligent and eager to please.

I have never owned a dog that made so much eye contact with me in my life.




Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:49:38 AM EDT
[#25]
My and my wife's new pups we're raising now(littermates). I was only planning on the male but a certain female caught my wife's eye and she decided she wanted to train a working dog along with me. To me there's NOTHING like a good working line GSD. Versatile, great temperament, extremely intellegent, personable companion, inate sense of responsibility and the list goes on and on. A shepherd with the correct temperament is very much a dual personality. As calm and sweet as they are around the home, it's difficult to visualize what land sharks they turn into when it comes time to go to work-These were taken a coupla wks. ago at 9 1/2 wks.
Lee

image hosting by xs-to





Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:53:22 AM EDT
[#26]
I'm partial to mutts, but no matter what dog you get training is everything.  I don't mean how many commands it knows, but what is most important is that the do know it's position in the pack, ie your family.  

We have two neigbors who have no control over their dogs whatsoever.  The dogs rule and do what they want.  They don't want to hurt the dog's feelings by discipining it.  These situations breed the dogs that cause the most trouble.  If you and the Mrs can't do this, it is better not to have a dog at all.  If you can, then you will have the best family member ever.  Besides, no matter what you have done. at least the dog will always be glad to see you.  They'll even be happy to have you sleep in the doghouse with them.

Just about any dog has more endurance than you do.  Like you they are affected by heat and cold.  You need to take care to protect them and read them for signs that they are having difficulties.  A dog will never complain and just try to keep up even if it kills them.  
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:17:31 AM EDT
[#27]
Yep, I see a lot of macho dogs here. I myself have hounds, Bloodhounds and Redbones.  They wouldn’t hurt a flea but they will come and tell me when something is amiss.
Any dog can be a “good dog” it all depends on the owner! Dogs are pack animals and they view you as part of the pack. Everyone in the family is part of the pack. It is up to everyone in the pack to defend there position is that pack (pecking order). Some of my dogs test me daily for the lead dog spot others (older ones) are happy to just test the younger ones and leave the big dog (me) alone. My wife is somewhere behind the Bloodhound and the oldest Redbone.  She lets them run all over her.
Raising a good dog requires 24hr a day interface with the dog. Not buying a dog and then put them in the yard and expect them to “watch your house”.  Dogs have to be trained in what to do (just like children, but smarter).
Believe it or not one of the best alarm dogs on earth is the "PEKINGESE"

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:34:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Well, I guess I will overlook my Rotty bias and suggest....

Practically any breed with proper socialization and obedience training.  

After working in veterinary hospitals for 4 years, I can tell you that I have been nearly bitten/snapped /growled/lunged at by practically every breed.  The common factor in aggressive/fear biting dogs was always the same... Crappy owners.  

Crappy owners include the ghetto thugs that would bring in their mean as hell pitbulls that spent their entire lives on a 4 foot chain attached to the front porch.  Crappy owners include the little old lady with a poodle that has never left the house or her lap and is so scared of anyone that's not Gramma that it snaps at small children.  Crappy owners are the nice young lady that buys a labrador and lets it run all over her.  He's the alpha dog/pack leader in his mind and will do whatever he pleases.  Crappy owners include the rich suburban couple that bought a dalmation for their daughter after 101 Dalmations came out and just threw the poor dog in the backyard after the daughter lost interest.  Crappy owners are everywhere...

On a positive note, clients that would bring their puppy in early (6-8 wks), follow our socializations ideas, and complete an obedience course within the first year had great pets regardless of breed.

What some quick tips for your next pup?

Get him/her around as many people/pets as possible early!  Bring your pup to dog parks, regular parks, pet stores, etc.  EVERYONE LOVES PUPPIES!  They will be glad to pet your dog.  Make sure your dog is vaccinated of course and that all other pets are friendly with other dogs.

Get your pup use to being put in submissive positions.  Make sure he's use to being put on his back with his belly up.  DO THIS BEFORE HE'S A 80lb MONSTER!  

Handle his paws/feet/toes ALOT, handle his ears, tail, inside of mouth, etc.  By 16 wks that dog should be completely comfortable with you handling any part of his body.

Your hands are not play toys... Ok this one's tough for most people, we all love letting our little guys grab hold of your hand and growl and tug while those sharp little pup teeth kinda sting.  THIS IS A NO-NO...

Occasionally mess with him while his eating his food.  This one will suprise some owners.  Little sweet pup may snap or growl at you for sticking a hand in food bowl.  Let him start eating then try and seperate him from the bowl.  Correct any signs of aggression with a loud, firm "NO!" and maybe a swat on the butt.

Obedience training is another huge plus.  Not only are you teaching your dog useful commands, but your re-enforcing your role as alpha dog to him.  And since classes are usually filled with other pups, hey MORE SOCIALIZATON!

Lots of great books have been written about the subject.  Follow what the book lays out and I would  almost guarantee your success.

Dexter, ready for any social occasion...


EPOCH
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:40:15 AM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
My and my wife's new pups we're raising now(littermates). I was only planning on the male but a certain female caught my wife's eye and she decided she wanted to train a working dog along with me. To me there's NOTHING like a good working line GSD. Versatile, great temperament, extremely intellegent, personable companion, inate sense of responsibility and the list goes on and on. A shepherd with the correct temperament is very much a dual personality. As calm and sweet as they are around the home, it's difficult to visualize what land sharks they turn into when it comes time to go to work-These were taken a coupla wks. ago at 9 1/2 wks.
Lee

image hosting by xs-to

xs49.xs.to/pics/05400/MVC-649F.JPG.xs.jpg

xs49.xs.to/pics/05400/MVC-663F.JPG.xs.jpg




Just FYI, leerburg.com says that you should not raise dogs together because it causes them to form a pack that doesn't necessarily include you.  I don't know if I agree with that myself, but you might want to read the site for interest.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:47:03 AM EDT
[#30]
WELL SAID, EPOCH96
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:48:50 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
Yep, I see a lot of macho dogs here. I myself have hounds, Bloodhounds and Redbones.  They wouldn’t hurt a flea but they will come and tell me when something is amiss.
Any dog can be a “good dog” it all depends on the owner! Dogs are pack animals and they view you as part of the pack. Everyone in the family is part of the pack. It is up to everyone in the pack to defend there position is that pack (pecking order). Some of my dogs test me daily for the lead dog spot others (older ones) are happy to just test the younger ones and leave the big dog (me) alone. My wife is somewhere behind the Bloodhound and the oldest Redbone.  She lets them run all over her.
Raising a good dog requires 24hr a day interface with the dog. Not buying a dog and then put them in the yard and expect them to “watch your house”.  Dogs have to be trained in what to do (just like children, but smarter).
Believe it or not one of the best alarm dogs on earth is the "PEKINGESE"




I keep hearing this stuff about dogs wanting to challenge for dominance of the family pack. I recognize that dogs will do it among themselves but I have owned lots of dogs and never had even one that was even slightly confused about who the Big Boss was. Every dog I have had would happily take orders from a two-year=old.

I think this idea that you gotta spend all your time asserting your dominance (as some, including leerburg.com say) is highly overrated. Dogs just don't react the same way to people that they do to other dogs.  I wonder what kinds of dogs people get, or what they do with them, that causes the dogs to try to assert their dominance. That seems like really stupid dogs to me. Would you try to dominate someone who fed you every day, and gave you back rubs on a regular basis? I don't do any special training with mine to get them that way. I just regard them as part of the family and that's how they act.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:02:32 AM EDT
[#32]
Don't get me wrong. I have never DOMINATED any of my dogs. Once in a while I will push them off there food, just to show them I can. Some times I will wrestle with them and hold them down just to show them I still can. On of my young redbones tries to snatch things from my hand so I reach in her mouth and grab her tongue, she hates that but it shows her that I am not afraid of her teeth. Like I said before it is the young dogs that try to move up in the pecking order. Once they see I won’t back down there is no more problems. By the way I have NEVER hit one of my dogs! All there training is done with treats and kind words.  One more tip, An old farmer told me this many years ago and it is very true. Spit in your puppies mouth. That dog will follow you to hell and back from then on.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:14:15 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:
Don't get me wrong. I have never DOMINATED any of my dogs. Once in a while I will push them off there food, just to show them I can. Some times I will wrestle with them and hold them down just to show them I still can. On of my young redbones tries to snatch things from my hand so I reach in her mouth and grab her tongue, she hates that but it shows her that I am not afraid of her teeth. Like I said before it is the young dogs that try to move up in the pecking order. Once they see I won’t back down there is no more problems. By the way I have NEVER hit one of my dogs! All there training is done with treats and kind words.



I have never even had to do that and I can open my dog's mouth and take food out that he is trying to swallow without protest. In fact, even the small kids can do it. My dogs recognize me as the source of food, not a competitor for it. I have never had dominance issues even with young dogs. They don't even want to test it. I am not a big, fearsome guy, either.


 One more tip, An old farmer told me this many years ago and it is very true. Spit in your puppies mouth. That dog will follow to hell and back from then on.


Ooooookkkkk. Never done that either, and my dog won't leave my side for anything. I would be looking for that one to appear on Snopes.com one day.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:30:22 AM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My and my wife's new pups we're raising now(littermates). I was only planning on the male but a certain female caught my wife's eye and she decided she wanted to train a working dog along with me. To me there's NOTHING like a good working line GSD. Versatile, great temperament, extremely intellegent, personable companion, inate sense of responsibility and the list goes on and on. A shepherd with the correct temperament is very much a dual personality. As calm and sweet as they are around the home, it's difficult to visualize what land sharks they turn into when it comes time to go to work-These were taken a coupla wks. ago at 9 1/2 wks.
Lee

image hosting by xs-to

xs49.xs.to/pics/05400/MVC-649F.JPG.xs.jpg</a>

xs49.xs.to/pics/05400/MVC-663F.JPG.xs.jpg</a>




Just FYI, leerburg.com says that you should not raise dogs together because it causes them to form a pack that doesn't necessarily include you.  I don't know if I agree with that myself, but you might want to read the site for interest.



Yes thanks, I'm aware of this. They have separate kennels and are gotten out and worked with separately. Their focus is on us, where it should be-
Lee
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:05:21 AM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
My and my wife's new pups we're raising now(littermates). I was only planning on the male but a certain female caught my wife's eye and she decided she wanted to train a working dog along with me. To me there's NOTHING like a good working line GSD. Versatile, great temperament, extremely intellegent, personable companion, inate sense of responsibility and the list goes on and on. A shepherd with the correct temperament is very much a dual personality. As calm and sweet as they are around the home, it's difficult to visualize what land sharks they turn into when it comes time to go to work-These were taken a coupla wks. ago at 9 1/2 wks.
Lee

image hosting by xs-to

xs49.xs.to/pics/05400/MVC-649F.JPG.xs.jpg</a>

xs49.xs.to/pics/05400/MVC-663F.JPG.xs.jpg</a>




Just FYI, leerburg.com says that you should not raise dogs together because it causes them to form a pack that doesn't necessarily include you.  I don't know if I agree with that myself, but you might want to read the site for interest.



Yes thanks, I'm aware of this. They have separate kennels and are gotten out and worked with separately. Their focus is on us, where it should be-
Lee



That site has a lot of good info, but I don't know how much of it actually applies to home dogs, as opposed to guard dogs. He does a lot of things with his dogs that he insists is absolutely necessary that I have never done, and I never had the problems that he seems to think will occur. I have raised multiple dogs at the same time myself and never had any of the problems he mentioned.  I never crated mine, never made any real attempt to show my dominance, and never made any attempt to keep them away from other people, as he recommends.

He seems to have a fundamentally different relationship with his dogs than most pet owners would have, IMO. (That is perhaps understandable if he spent his career raising guard dogs.) He says repeatedly on the site that he is absolutely right about his advice and there are no exceptions to the rules. I have had lots of exceptions myself.

YMMV, of course.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:25:28 AM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
My and my wife's new pups we're raising now(littermates). I was only planning on the male but a certain female caught my wife's eye and she decided she wanted to train a working dog along with me. To me there's NOTHING like a good working line GSD. Versatile, great temperament, extremely intellegent, personable companion, inate sense of responsibility and the list goes on and on. A shepherd with the correct temperament is very much a dual personality. As calm and sweet as they are around the home, it's difficult to visualize what land sharks they turn into when it comes time to go to work-These were taken a coupla wks. ago at 9 1/2 wks.
Lee

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Just FYI, leerburg.com says that you should not raise dogs together because it causes them to form a pack that doesn't necessarily include you.  I don't know if I agree with that myself, but you might want to read the site for interest.



Yes thanks, I'm aware of this. They have separate kennels and are gotten out and worked with separately. Their focus is on us, where it should be-
Lee



That site has a lot of good info, but I don't know how much of it actually applies to home dogs, as opposed to guard dogs. He does a lot of things with his dogs that he insists is absolutely necessary that I have never done, and I never had the problems that he seems to think will occur. I have raised multiple dogs at the same time myself and never had any of the problems he mentioned.  I never crated mine, never made any real attempt to show my dominance, and never made any attempt to keep them away from other people, as he recommends.

He seems to have a fundamentally different relationship with his dogs than most pet owners would have, IMO. (That is perhaps understandable if he spent his career raising guard dogs.) He says repeatedly on the site that he is absolutely right about his advice and there are no exceptions to the rules. I have had lots of exceptions myself.

YMMV, of course.



I've got some of his tapes from a dozen or more years ago. Like anything else I've seen, there is some useful info there but some stuff I don't agree with at all. You have to use what feels right to you and gets the results in the dog that you want and toss out the rest. The part about not raising pups together I happen to agree with myself because I've seen firsthand that when two pups are together, their attention is on puppy games, not where I need their focus-
Lee
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