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Posted: 6/20/2017 2:37:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 2:40:08 AM EDT
The Seattle Times reported that Lyles was several months pregnant and had been struggling with mental-health issues for the past year.

Lyles's sister, Monika Williams, attended a vigil service dedicated to her sister on Sunday. “Why couldn’t they have Tased her?” Williams said to the Seattle Times. “They could have taken her down. I could have taken her down.”
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Link Posted: 6/20/2017 2:44:17 AM EDT
A bit vague on details but they happened to throw in she had been suffering from mental health issues. Honestly, why? Is there a point I'm missing?
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 2:44:45 AM EDT
There are interaction in which all parties lose.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 2:45:52 AM EDT
From the comments in op.      




@vivelafra @ShaunKing Why shoot to kill? Good grief, a woman with a knife against armed police? Shoot her in the knees or arm. For heaven sake, stop the killing!
6:35 PM - 18 Jun 2017
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 2:46:20 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By SIASL:
A bit vague on details but they happened to throw in she had been suffering from mental health issues. Honestly, why? Is there a point I'm missing?
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Probably wasn't even a burglary. She knew the police were responding and still decided she should be armed with a knife.

If you listen to the audio (I only listened to the beginning) the officers can be heard on dash cam talking about some other crazy call she made at which time she was armed with scissors. They had a police alert on her residence.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 2:47:37 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By FourLoko:
Probably wasn't even a burglary. She knew the police were responding and still decided she should be armed with a knife.

If you listen to the audio (I only listened to the beginning) the officers can be heard on dash cam talking about some other crazy call she made at which time she was armed with scissors. They had a police alert on her residence.
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Originally Posted By FourLoko:
Originally Posted By SIASL:
A bit vague on details but they happened to throw in she had been suffering from mental health issues. Honestly, why? Is there a point I'm missing?
Probably wasn't even a burglary. She knew the police were responding and still decided she should be armed with a knife.

If you listen to the audio (I only listened to the beginning) the officers can be heard on dash cam talking about some other crazy call she made at which time she was armed with scissors. They had a police alert on her residence.
Appreciate. That does change things.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 2:51:56 AM EDT
http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/woman-injured-in-north-seattle-officer-involved-shooting/535326723


Five days before the fatal incident, a judge in Seattle Mental Health Court ordered her not to possess “weapons or items that can be used as weapons.” A police report from another incident involving Lyles earlier this month at the same low-income housing unit indicates that she “experienced a recent sudden and rapid decline in her mental health.”

In the fatal incident on Sunday, police were called to the report of a burglary at her apartment near Magnuson Park. Two officers fired after they said she refused to drop a knife.
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Link Posted: 6/20/2017 3:09:24 AM EDT
Seattle gonna burn?
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 3:13:25 AM EDT
"shoot her in the knee or the arms, STOP THE KILLING"

fucking lol
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 3:43:30 AM EDT
Suicide by cop?

that sucks for everyone
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 4:22:20 AM EDT
Heard the audio today. Good shot. Fuck her and the rest of them.

Ed
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 4:30:21 AM EDT
All those kids and not a single quote from her husband!!!

Link Posted: 6/20/2017 5:42:24 AM EDT
#ohwell
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 6:14:38 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By M1-Ed:
Heard the audio today. Good shot. Fuck her and the rest of them.

Ed
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It might have been a necessary shoot, but I wouldnt call it a good shoot. Two people died in this incident. If she was having mental issues she might not have even known what she was doing.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 6:19:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 6:20:28 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Silas:


It might have been a necessary shoot, but I wouldnt call it a good shoot. Two people died in this incident. If she was having mental issues she might not have even known what she was doing.
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She had four other future felons of america.

I'm sure we'll survive this great loss.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 6:21:42 AM EDT
I'll be devils advocate here.
They knew they were going to deal with a female,who is mentally ill, and has picked up weapons in the past. She had a knife, not a box fed 12gauge. Wouldn't it have made sense to go in with a full can of riot control pepperspray or rubber buckshot or something? They knew what they were getting into, they had time to prepare.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 6:22:26 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By stone-age:
I'll be devils advocate here.
They knew they were going to deal with a female,who is mentally ill, and has picked up weapons in the past. She had a knife, not a box fed 12gauge. Wouldn't it have made sense to go in with a full can of riot control pepperspray or rubber buckshot or something? They knew what they were getting into, they had time to prepare.
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You don't meet deadly force with less than lethal.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 6:25:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mech2007:


All those kids and not a single quote from her husband!!!

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Pregnant mother of four with mental health issues. She's not a singularity either. Mentally unbalanced people having children with other mentally unbalanced and or hit and quit it douchebags are making the children that grow up to be future problems. Hasty unplanned breeding is killing this country.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 6:39:38 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Seattle gonna burn?
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Link Posted: 6/20/2017 7:05:30 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By stone-age:
I'll be devils advocate here.
They knew they were going to deal with a female,who is mentally ill, and has picked up weapons in the past. She had a knife, not a box fed 12gauge. Wouldn't it have made sense to go in with a full can of riot control pepperspray or rubber buckshot or something? They knew what they were getting into, they had time to prepare.
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They knew beforehand she was holding a knife? I didn't see that in the story. They showed up knowing she had issues but didn't see knife until she sat down on the couch after they were inside. Plus she said something about coming after them. Maybe be an advocate about using some karate or something? Also neither one had a taser.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 7:16:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By NickGunar:
From the comments in op.      




@vivelafra @ShaunKing Why shoot to kill? Good grief, a woman with a knife against armed police? Shoot her in the knees or arm. For heaven sake, stop the killing!
6:35 PM - 18 Jun 2017
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Or better yet. Why not shoot the knife out of her hand?

Just like the movies. 
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 7:32:56 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NickGunar:
From the comments in op.      

@vivelafra @ShaunKing Why shoot to kill? Good grief, a woman with a knife against armed police? Shoot her in the knees or arm. For heaven sake, stop the killing!
6:35 PM - 18 Jun 2017
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Did Ben Carson post that?
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 7:35:37 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mech2007:


All those kids and not a single quote from her husband!!!

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Is this a case of any of the four of them?
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 7:49:19 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stone-age:
I'll be devils advocate here.
They knew they were going to deal with a female,who is mentally ill, and has picked up weapons in the past. She had a knife, not a box fed 12gauge. Wouldn't it have made sense to go in with a full can of riot control pepperspray or rubber buckshot or something? They knew what they were getting into, they had time to prepare.
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Pepper spray, LTL rounds and even hands on pain compliance techniques are often less than effective on people with mental illness.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 7:59:48 AM EDT
Sucks for everyone involved. I have an immediate family member with a mental illness and know all about it. I never have called law enforcement to deal with them and I never will. Not a slight at the police.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:08:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2017 11:47:47 AM EDT by Sixpack595]
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Originally Posted By M1-Ed:
Heard the audio today. Good shot. Fuck her and the rest of them.

Ed
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Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:20:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:26:13 AM EDT
I was willing to listen until they went full retard with the race claims, but it looks like a legal shoot anyway.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:30:11 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rifle_length:
Sucks for everyone involved. I have an immediate family member with a mental illness and know all about it. I never have called law enforcement to deal with them and I never will. Not a slight at the police.
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They thank you. Police are not mental health professionals.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:46:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2017 8:48:26 AM EDT by Hking]
Lets play Devils Advocate for a second. Why not at least try to tazer her first? You have multiple officers there, have one guy deploy the tazer and if that doesn't work the other/rest of the officers can light her ass up. I dont know enough about the situation or policing in general to really know one way or the other.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:52:57 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Silas:
It might have been a necessary shoot, but I wouldnt call it a good shoot. Two people died in this incident. If she was having mental issues she might not have even known what she was doing.
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Originally Posted By Silas:
Originally Posted By M1-Ed:
Heard the audio today. Good shot. Fuck her and the rest of them.

Ed
It might have been a necessary shoot, but I wouldnt call it a good shoot. Two people died in this incident. If she was having mental issues she might not have even known what she was doing.
I go with this.  Not like the cops put down some thug scumbag.  They shot a crazy lady brandishing a deadly weapon, they're not gonna feel good about this.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:55:39 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By scott_hunts:
Suicide by cop?

that sucks for everyone
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Sad for all but that sounds like one likely possibility.  Not for nothing but a significant portion of suicide calls are known and diagnosed with bad mental illnesses.  If only there were government run places to house and treat these people where they weren't a danger to themselves and others.    Thanks civil liberties union assholes!

Whether intentional suicide or not it sounds like she shouldn't be living outside with four children.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:58:51 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Hking:
Lets play Devils Advocate for a second. Why not at least try to tazer her first? You have multiple officers there, have one guy deploy the tazer and if that doesn't work the other/rest of the officers can light her ass up. I dont know enough about the situation or policing in general to really know one way or the other.
http://i.imgur.com/LezT30q.jpg
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Asked and answered. You don't meet deadly force (knife) with less-lethal force (Taser). If a crazy guy is coming at you with a knife while you're out and about, should YOU be required to try pepper spray or some other bullshit first?
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:59:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By stone-age:
I'll be devils advocate here.
They knew they were going to deal with a female,who is mentally ill, and has picked up weapons in the past. She had a knife, not a box fed 12gauge. Wouldn't it have made sense to go in with a full can of riot control pepperspray or rubber buckshot or something? They knew what they were getting into, they had time to prepare.
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Ah the old pepper spray against a person with a knife argument. Nice.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:00:39 AM EDT
Nothing we will say will ever convince someone that it was a justified shoot.  They start out against the police.

You can't reason with someone to change their opinion if they didn't use reason to get there in the first place.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:01:31 AM EDT
The real story says OP chose a bullshit article with a title guaranteed to get the cop haters in a lather.

Should have said "Mentally ill woman with violent past attacks cops and is shot".
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:10:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2017 9:11:06 AM EDT by duhflushtech]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stone-age:
I'll be devils advocate here.
They knew they were going to deal with a female,who is mentally ill, and has picked up weapons in the past. She had a knife, not a box fed 12gauge. Wouldn't it have made sense to go in with a full can of riot control pepperspray or rubber buckshot or something? They knew what they were getting into, they had time to prepare.
View Quote
A lot of large agencies, including seattle I'd guess, don't exactly give that stuff out as general issue or just have it laying around.  At my department, I wouldn't know how to get my hands on some rubber buck or a big ass can of spray if I wanted to.  I'm assuming they keep some at the city armory or something and issue it out during riots and stuff.  Anyway, point is they aren't going to just hand it out to random patrolmen before going on a CIT call.  The vast majority of crazies we come in contact with have dealt with the police before; many have been violent.  If we waited to get issued the super special equipment before every potentially violent CIT call, we wouldn't be able to function.  I don't think a lot of people realize just how many nutters the police have to deal with on a daily basis.

Plus, as was pointed out by others, pain compliance doesn't always work with mentally ill folks.  Also, knife is lethal force, and it's met with lethal force.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:10:33 AM EDT
Not surprisingly not a single local news outlet has played the full audio beyond the part where they shoot her
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:12:13 AM EDT
Personally I don't give a fuck anymore.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:14:49 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mopseydocks6014:
Nothing we will say will ever convince someone that it was a justified shoot.  They start out against the police.

You can't reason with someone to change their opinion if they didn't use reason to get there in the first place.
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This is 100% fact, I said the same thing about the Live PD show on A&E, that show is good and all, but it's not going to change anyone's mind about policing.  You're either raised to believe the Police are out to get you or the Police come to help you, there is no in between.

An accurate assessment I heard from one of the cops I work with was along the lines of "it's akin to being a Marine Infantryman in the Hellmand Province: you have no allies or support from the indegineous population and many of them are actively working against you in a hostile manner."  He went on to say "that's why we went from Sheriff Taylor to Army Ranger", he's not wrong, we are issued body armor on the Ambulance/Firetrucks in certain AOs.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:16:38 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By pokey074:
Asked and answered. You don't meet deadly force (knife) with less-lethal force (Taser). If a crazy guy is coming at you with a knife while you're out and about, should YOU be required to try pepper spray or some other bullshit first?
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Originally Posted By pokey074:
Originally Posted By Hking:
Lets play Devils Advocate for a second. Why not at least try to tazer her first? You have multiple officers there, have one guy deploy the tazer and if that doesn't work the other/rest of the officers can light her ass up. I dont know enough about the situation or policing in general to really know one way or the other.
http://i.imgur.com/LezT30q.jpg
Asked and answered. You don't meet deadly force (knife) with less-lethal force (Taser). If a crazy guy is coming at you with a knife while you're out and about, should YOU be required to try pepper spray or some other bullshit first?
Well, also note that against a pregnant person, an ECW/CEW/whatever we're calling them now is considered lethal force anyway.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:20:12 AM EDT
Heard the tape this morning. Seconds before she grabs the knife (and says "Do it! Do it!) she was talking to the police about what was "stolen".

One of the cops even says (after she grabs the knife) "Taze her!" and the other cops says "I don't have one"
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:21:09 AM EDT
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According the the Washington Post, the children inside at the time were unharmed. Family members of Lyles' told The Seattle Times that they believe her race -- African-American --  was a factor in her
death. Seattle police told the newspaper that the officers who shot her
are white.
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Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:23:26 AM EDT
A lose/lose situation if there ever was one. Sucks for the cops and the kids.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:31:06 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lomshek:
The real story says OP chose a bullshit article with a title guaranteed to get the cop haters in a lather.

Should have said "Mentally ill woman with violent past attacks cops and is shot".
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Most of the article titles I've seen around for this story are simply "Seattle Police shoot and kill pregnant mother of four."

Media gonna media
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:31:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Naamah:
A lose/lose situation if there ever was one. Sucks for the cops and the kids.
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Probably doesn't suck for the kids
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:36:58 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By gojo96:
They knew beforehand she was holding a knife? I didn't see that in the story. They showed up knowing she had issues but didn't see knife until she sat down on the couch after they were inside. Plus she said something about coming after them. Maybe be an advocate about using some karate or something? Also neither one had a taser.
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Originally Posted By gojo96:
Originally Posted By stone-age:
I'll be devils advocate here.
They knew they were going to deal with a female,who is mentally ill, and has picked up weapons in the past. She had a knife, not a box fed 12gauge. Wouldn't it have made sense to go in with a full can of riot control pepperspray or rubber buckshot or something? They knew what they were getting into, they had time to prepare.
They knew beforehand she was holding a knife? I didn't see that in the story. They showed up knowing she had issues but didn't see knife until she sat down on the couch after they were inside. Plus she said something about coming after them. Maybe be an advocate about using some karate or something? Also neither one had a taser.
A knife is deadly force.

You don't use tasers against deadly force in most situations.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:45:46 AM EDT
They are already under a consent decree with the feds for handling crazy people, this will only be a blip in the data.

Article written last year

The latest report published today on SPD’s Crisis Intervention Program shows arrests and use of force continues to be a rare occurrence when officers are dealing with persons in crisis. With approximately 9,300 crisis responses reported last year, only 149 (1.6%) involved any use of reportable force, and of these, only 36 (0.4% of crisis responses overall) involved greater than a low-level, Type I use of force. This is a testament to the impact of enhanced training and data collection as part SPD’s Crisis Intervention Program. When compared to the estimation cited by the Department of Justice in 2011 that more than 70% of force incidents involved persons in crisis, these latest numbers are clear evidence that SPD officers have embraced, and are applying in practice, the de-escalation and CIT skills that are now emphasized in training.
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http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2016/08/18/latest-report-shows-arrests-use-of-force-continue-to-be-rare-with-those-in-crisis/
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 9:49:30 AM EDT
Suicide by cop, is what it sounds like.
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