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Posted: 1/27/2014 10:50:55 AM EDT
Those SATs and APs Were Hard—To Afford
The College Board should behave more like the nonprofit it claims to be.

By Benjamin Tonelli
Jan. 26, 2014 5:22 p.m. ETWith college-admission deadlines quickly approaching, my debt to the College Board keeps growing. Two SAT tests, five subject tests and six Advanced Placement (AP) tests later, I am ready to report my scores through the College Board website to the 10 colleges to which I am applying. On top of the total $102 I paid to take the SAT, $114 for the subject tests, and $534 for the AP tests, the College Board now demands $11.25 for each electronic submission of the test scores to the schools on my list.

It seems odd that the College Board—a nonprofit whose CEO, David Coleman, was pulling in $750,000 as of 2012—cannot send a few numbers over the Internet for just a dollar or two, or maybe even free. Instead, I am shoveling out another $100-plus just for electronic submissions, another contribution to the swelling pockets of the College Board (annual revenue in 2011-2012: more than $750 million).

With almost complete control over the business of pre-college standardized testing, the College Board squeezes every penny it can from high-school students—or their parents. The company charges at every turn while attempting to "connect students to college success," loading on additional fees for every missed deadline and "rush" delivery of electronically sent scores, scores that apparently otherwise take weeks to navigate the labyrinth that is the World Wide Web.

The College Board should behave more like the nonprofit it claims to be. Lowering the cost of the SAT would encourage more students whose parents make modest incomes to retake the test and compete against students from higher income households who often take the test upward of four times, aiming for higher scores. (I took the test twice.)

Allowing colleges to review prospective students' test scores online through the Common Application would be a common-sense way of easing the financial burden on students. Reducing the price of AP tests to encourage more high-school students to take the exams that grant college credit could mean lower tuition and less student debt. What better way to stay true to the College Board's belief in "investing in the future"?

I hope that this piece "demonstrates outstanding critical thinking, using clearly appropriate examples, reasons and other evidence to support its position," as the scoring guide for the SAT essay test puts it. Somehow I doubt that the College Board will give it high marks.

Mr. Tonelli is a senior at Garfield High School in Seattle.
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Garfield is along Seattle's MLK boulevard (or is it on 23rd?, same thing), so "inner city" to the extent Seattle has  an inner city.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 10:58:13 AM EDT
So, you're saying higher education is big money.  Huh.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:01:44 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bteamleader:


So, you're saying higher education is big money.  Huh.
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... you just missed that point completely.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:02:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:02:57 AM EDT
College is for suckers.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:06:38 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


The entire article was emailed to me by wsj and I'm not a subscriber, so I presume it's public domain now.  Also several wide open links and forwarding links now.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:08:01 AM EDT
Register non-matriculating for two semesters, get good grades, and then convince the department to put you in the degree program.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:08:37 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By NSFJojo:

 

... you just missed that point completely.
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Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
So, you're saying higher education is big money.  Huh.

 

... you just missed that point completely.

Its possible.  My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension.  Enjoy your white-male privilege.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:09:29 AM EDT
lol Of all the places where we can improve our post secondary education system, from funding to curriculum, he gets hung up on the couple hundred bucks to take the placement tests.


He's going to shit a meat ax when the first loan payment is due.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:09:56 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By callgood:
College is for suckers.
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So true.  On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out.  He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:15:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TontoGoldstein:


So true.  On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out.  He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too.
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Originally Posted By TontoGoldstein:
Originally Posted By callgood:
College is for suckers.


So true.  On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out.  He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too.



If you suck so bad at life that a high school diploma is beyond your grasp then sure.

But there is a hug gap in motivation and skills between a HS dropout and someone without a traditional college diploma.

Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:16:14 AM EDT
And that guy has six AP credits.

He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that.

Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here.  Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures.


To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD.  She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life...  with a $2k/mo. student loan payment.

I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane.  And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer.



The cost of education is simply insane at every level.  It cannot continue forever.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:23:09 AM EDT
AP's a scam anyway.

My dad used to find the number of "I passed the AP Chem exam, that means I shouldn't have to take your first semester chem class" types who flunked the second semester class quite entertaining.

They never believed him that what their HS teacher taught and what he taught in the first semester were not identical. Or that he didn't give a damn what their HS teacher or the College Board thought were important chemistry subjects.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:32:06 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By callgood:
College is for suckers.
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yeah all you need to know is in the bible.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:36:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ScopeScar:

Garfield is along Seattle's MLK boulevard (or is it on 23rd?, same thing), so "inner city" to the extent Seattle has  an inner city.
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i bet i've fucked one of his teachers if he's in a bunch of AP classes.

yes, it's ghetto.

but i don't give a shit about his whining about test fees. if he doesn't have the money, it's his own fault for being poor.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:37:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TontoGoldstein:


So true.  On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out.  He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too.
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Originally Posted By TontoGoldstein:
Originally Posted By callgood:
College is for suckers.


So true.  On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out.  He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too.

I'm just quoting one of the profs here on the site.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:40:55 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
And that guy has six AP credits.

He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that.

Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here.  Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures.


To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD.  She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life...  with a $2k/mo. student loan payment.

I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane.  And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer.



The cost of education is simply insane at every level.  It cannot continue forever.
View Quote


Bingo.  A major correction is needed.  Cut all subsidies, & the free market will take care of the cost spiral.

Of course, given the cozy relationship between the education cabal & the federal government, I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:48:25 AM EDT
Cost for a pre-med student to take the MCAT: $275

Cost to submit AMCAS (the generic online application used by most med schools):$160

Cost to submit AMCAS to additional schools (you get one freebie):$35 per school

Cost for each school's secondary application, which they give you after they receive your AMCAS: $30-100

So, for a student applying to a dozen schools the total cost would be about $275 + 160 + 35(11) + 65(12) =  $1600. And that's before any travel for interviews, etc.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 11:55:36 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By 2minkey:


yeah all you need to know is in the bible.
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Originally Posted By 2minkey:
Originally Posted By callgood:
College is for suckers.


yeah all you need to know is in the bible.

lol
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:03:15 PM EDT
"And that guy has six AP credits.

He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that. "

So please correct me if I have misconstrued your meaning.

Because the has the magical AP credit his life will be rainbows and skittles?

I cannot agree..
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:05:31 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


And that guy has six AP credits.



He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that.



Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here.  Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures.





To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD.  She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life...  with a $2k/mo. student loan payment.



I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane.  And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer.
The cost of education is simply insane at every level.  It cannot continue forever.
View Quote


Absolutely.



I think it started in the Clinton era, this big lie that "everyone should be able to go to college".



Well newsflash: A HUGE chunk of the adult population and recent high school graduate are doomed to fail if they enroll in college. NOT EVERYONE NEEDS COLLEGE! And certainly most are not prepared socially or academically for college.



But it'll take them a couple years of college loans to figure out that they shouldn't be in college and so they'll leave with two or three wasted years, no diploma, no marketable skills and a large student loan debt.





And THAT'S how you grow FSA-Obamavoters my friend!
 
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:08:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MonkeyFist:
"And that guy has six AP credits.

He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that. "

So please correct me if I have misconstrued your meaning.

Because the has the magical AP credit his life will be rainbows and skittles?

I cannot agree..
View Quote



You didn't know? If you took AP classes in high school you are guaranteed to be financially successful.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:12:38 PM EDT
I designed and implemented their call center back in 2005 or 2006. I'm not a college graduate.



Thanks for spending the money, though! Guys like me depend on it.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:21:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By NSFJojo:

 

... you just missed that point completely.
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Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
So, you're saying higher education is big money.  Huh.

 

... you just missed that point completely.


this is what happens in commerical activity where little or no competition takes place, while registering as a non/not for profit entity.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:23:33 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 2minkey:


i bet i've fucked one of his teachers if he's in a bunch of AP classes.

yes, it's ghetto.

but i don't give a shit about his whining about test fees. if he doesn't have the money, it's his own fault for being poor.
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Originally Posted By 2minkey:
Originally Posted By ScopeScar:

Garfield is along Seattle's MLK boulevard (or is it on 23rd?, same thing), so "inner city" to the extent Seattle has  an inner city.


i bet i've fucked one of his teachers if he's in a bunch of AP classes.

yes, it's ghetto.

but i don't give a shit about his whining about test fees. if he doesn't have the money, it's his own fault for being poor.


tell me more about his possible teacher...
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:24:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By red_on_black:
Cost for a pre-med student to take the MCAT: $275

Cost to submit AMCAS (the generic online application used by most med schools):$160

Cost to submit AMCAS to additional schools (you get one freebie):$35 per school

Cost for each school's secondary application, which they give you after they receive your AMCAS: $30-100

So, for a student applying to a dozen schools the total cost would be about $275 + 160 + 35(11) + 65(12) =  $1600. And that's before any travel for interviews, etc.
View Quote


add the need for an MCAT course to improve your test scores and the like..
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:25:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:

Its possible.  My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension.  Enjoy your white-male privilege.
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:
Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
So, you're saying higher education is big money.  Huh.

 

... you just missed that point completely.

Its possible.  My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension.  Enjoy your white-male privilege.

Hoping this is sarcasm.

If not, boo fucking hoo.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:27:07 PM EDT
Cost of college is stupidly high.


Not only that, often times the ROI on college degree's doesn't make sense. And an even higher percentage of the time your college degree has nothing to do with your job.  I have two degrees: History - Specialty in Modern North American Diplomatic history and  International Studies - Intelligence & Security Counter-Terrorism.

I am now the chief buyer and logistics manager for an Oil company (Finished products - not drilling).


Trade skills are vastly over looked.

High school + Tech school, or High School + 2 year degree in Diesel mechanics, welding, or machining will net you a 70-100k a year job with in 5 years of graduation. Assuming your not a fuck up.

High school + CDL will net you a 50k a year job post-graduation. Potentially a 100k a year job with experience.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:31:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TontoGoldstein:


So true.  On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out.  He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too.
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Originally Posted By TontoGoldstein:
Originally Posted By callgood:
College is for suckers.


So true.  On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out.  He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too.


A lot of people should be seeking technical education instead, to be fair.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:40:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
And that guy has six AP credits.

He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that.

Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here.  Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures.


To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD.  She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life...  with a $2k/mo. student loan payment.

I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane.  And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer.




The cost of education is simply insane at every level.  It cannot continue forever.
View Quote

This is a great point.  Kids need to know that if they're borrowing the money to go to school, they had better get a degree that will turn a profit.  I know a young MD who just finished her residency.  At 29 she has a base salary of $175k with a cap of around $300K if she hits her incentives.  She also has $2500 monthly loan payments.  I bet she can make due on $12,000 per month.  

On the other hand, I know guys with worthless masters degrees making coffee or tending bar.  Life is about choices, it helps to make good ones.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:42:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By drkddl:

Hoping this is sarcasm.

If not, boo fucking hoo.
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Originally Posted By drkddl:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
So, you're saying higher education is big money.  Huh.

 

... you just missed that point completely.

Its possible.  My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension.  Enjoy your white-male privilege.

Hoping this is sarcasm.

If not, boo fucking hoo.

Your post is dripping with privilege.  And oil.  From land your white forefathers stole from Native Americans.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:45:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By OKnativeson:

add the need for an MCAT course to improve your test scores and the like..
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I studied on my own using ~$200 worth of books, but I know at least two guys who took Kaplan's $2,000 MCAT prep class. They actually offer a $8,500 MCAT prep boot-camp in the summers. I don't know anyone who has taken it.

Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:52:57 PM EDT
I don't believe I paid anything to take the SATs in 1966 (but maybe I'm not remembering correctly). I didn't take them seriously, at all.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 12:58:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:

Your post is dripping with privilege.  And oil.  From land your white forefathers stole from Native Americans.
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:
Originally Posted By drkddl:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
So, you're saying higher education is big money.  Huh.

 

... you just missed that point completely.

Its possible.  My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension.  Enjoy your white-male privilege.

Hoping this is sarcasm.

If not, boo fucking hoo.

Your post is dripping with privilege.  And oil.  From land your white forefathers stole from Native Americans.



[/URL]
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 1:04:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Foxtrot08:
Cost of college is stupidly high.


Not only that, often times the ROI on college degree's doesn't make sense. And an even higher percentage of the time your college degree has nothing to do with your job.  I have two degrees: History - Specialty in Modern North American Diplomatic history and  International Studies - Intelligence & Security Counter-Terrorism.

I am now the chief buyer and logistics manager for an Oil company (Finished products - not drilling).


Trade skills are vastly over looked.

High school + Tech school, or High School + 2 year degree in Diesel mechanics, welding, or machining will net you a 70-100k a year job with in 5 years of graduation. Assuming your not a fuck up.

High school + CDL will net you a 50k a year job post-graduation. Potentially a 100k a year job with experience.
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It is possible to choose degree programs with a very high ROI.  Pretty much any of the engineering majors qualify.  The reason engineering careers pay highly is supply and demand - the number of graduates tends to be less than the job openings available.  Why?  Because an engineering curriculum is hard.

Many students start out in the School of engineering and bail because somewhere they got the impression that college was a ticket to get punched to a career, like high school is a ticket to get punched to go to college.  When freshman year bears no resemblance to the Thirteenth Grade, they bail and go to easier majors.  Which increases the supply of graduates and drives down their starting salaries.

The Laws of Economics - you may not have studied them, but that doesn't mean they don't apply.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 1:10:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2014 1:10:51 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 1:11:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:

Your post is dripping with privilege.  And oil.  From land your white forefathers stole from Native Americans.
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:
Originally Posted By drkddl:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
So, you're saying higher education is big money.  Huh.

 

... you just missed that point completely.

Its possible.  My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension.  Enjoy your white-male privilege.

Hoping this is sarcasm.

If not, boo fucking hoo.

Your post is dripping with privilege.  And oil.  From land your white forefathers stole from Native Americans.

Rofl. You are my hero.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 1:15:36 PM EDT
Back in 1985, my HS's National Honor Society sold donuts and cookies around lunch time and used the money to pay for AP exams and SAT/ACT tests for any student with a 3.5 or higher GPA.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 1:29:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DK-Prof:He makes no actual logical argument for WHY records transfers or testing fees should be cheaper, other than some trite and juvenile point about how the CEO make a lot of money.
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Actually, he does make a great point.  Why shouldn't the record transfers be electronic and very cheap?

His point that the CEO of this company earns $750,000 for essentially a monopoly service should be sufficient grounds to question why it exists.

Do you think he has access, or would be allowed to get it, to company data to analyze?

Why shouldn't the service just post scores to a central location that any interested college could simply download?  There's no reason for the fee per application model.  There's nothing lol about this.






Link Posted: 1/27/2014 1:52:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:

Its possible.  My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension.  Enjoy your white-male privilege.
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:
Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
So, you're saying higher education is big money.  Huh.

 

... you just missed that point completely.

Its possible.  My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension.  Enjoy your white-male privilege.

This white male started working when he was 12 and paid most all my way because I had a job workiing 35-75 hours a week and I made sure the college was within driving distance of my work and made sure I was out by 1130 everyday so I could work.  

If I could do it damn near anyone could they just would have to want it.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:12:39 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By ScopeScar:
Actually, he does make a great point.  Why shouldn't the record transfers be electronic and very cheap?



His point that the CEO of this company earns $750,000 for essentially a monopoly service should be sufficient grounds to question why it exists.



Do you think he has access, or would be allowed to get it, to company data to analyze?



Why shouldn't the service just post scores to a central location that any interested college could simply download?  There's no reason for the fee per application model.  There's nothing lol about this.
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Originally Posted By ScopeScar:



Originally Posted By DK-Prof:He makes no actual logical argument for WHY records transfers or testing fees should be cheaper, other than some trite and juvenile point about how the CEO make a lot of money.




Actually, he does make a great point.  Why shouldn't the record transfers be electronic and very cheap?



His point that the CEO of this company earns $750,000 for essentially a monopoly service should be sufficient grounds to question why it exists.



Do you think he has access, or would be allowed to get it, to company data to analyze?



Why shouldn't the service just post scores to a central location that any interested college could simply download?  There's no reason for the fee per application model.  There's nothing lol about this.


I'll agree with this. There's nothing wrong in questioning a monopoly that performs a simple service, and seems to be profiting obscenely in a role that is supposed to be non-profit. In that way, the CEO's rather large paycheck is a reasonable question to ask...as is the complexity of what they do.



Let the folks at the CB respond and justify their intake, and output....out there for public scrutiny. If it's warranted, then fine...show it.



Kudos for the kid asking the questions.



 
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:14:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:17:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2014 2:19:27 PM EDT by ScopeScar]
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Originally Posted By DK-Prof:<snip>
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More speculative than the Highschooler.

Has a suspiciously defensive tone also, vested interest.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:20:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:



Bingo.  A major correction is needed.  Cut all subsidies, & the free market will take care of the cost spiral.

Of course, given the cozy relationship between the education cabal & the federal government, I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.
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Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
And that guy has six AP credits.

He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that.

Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here.  Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures.


To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD.  She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life...  with a $2k/mo. student loan payment.

I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane.  And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer.



The cost of education is simply insane at every level.  It cannot continue forever.



Bingo.  A major correction is needed.  Cut all subsidies, & the free market will take care of the cost spiral.

Of course, given the cozy relationship between the education cabal & the federal government, I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.


Agreed.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:20:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ScopeScar:
Those SATs and APs Were Hard—To Afford
The College Board should behave more like the nonprofit it claims to be.

By Benjamin Tonelli
Jan. 26, 2014 5:22 p.m. ETWith college-admission deadlines quickly approaching, my debt to the College Board keeps growing. Two SAT tests, five subject tests and six Advanced Placement (AP) tests later, I am ready to report my scores through the College Board website to the 10 colleges to which I am applying. On top of the total $102 I paid to take the SAT, $114 for the subject tests, and $534 for the AP tests, the College Board now demands $11.25 for each electronic submission of the test scores to the schools on my list.

It seems odd that the College Board—a nonprofit whose CEO, David Coleman, was pulling in $750,000 as of 2012—cannot send a few numbers over the Internet for just a dollar or two, or maybe even free. Instead, I am shoveling out another $100-plus just for electronic submissions, another contribution to the swelling pockets of the College Board (annual revenue in 2011-2012: more than $750 million).

With almost complete control over the business of pre-college standardized testing, the College Board squeezes every penny it can from high-school students—or their parents. The company charges at every turn while attempting to "connect students to college success," loading on additional fees for every missed deadline and "rush" delivery of electronically sent scores, scores that apparently otherwise take weeks to navigate the labyrinth that is the World Wide Web.

The College Board should behave more like the nonprofit it claims to be. Lowering the cost of the SAT would encourage more students whose parents make modest incomes to retake the test and compete against students from higher income households who often take the test upward of four times, aiming for higher scores. (I took the test twice.)

Allowing colleges to review prospective students' test scores online through the Common Application would be a common-sense way of easing the financial burden on students. Reducing the price of AP tests to encourage more high-school students to take the exams that grant college credit could mean lower tuition and less student debt. What better way to stay true to the College Board's belief in "investing in the future"?

I hope that this piece "demonstrates outstanding critical thinking, using clearly appropriate examples, reasons and other evidence to support its position," as the scoring guide for the SAT essay test puts it. Somehow I doubt that the College Board will give it high marks.

Mr. Tonelli is a senior at Garfield High School in Seattle.
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Garfield is along Seattle's MLK boulevard (or is it on 23rd?, same thing), so "inner city" to the extent Seattle has  an inner city.
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Garfield is an interesting school. . . it is known for it's AP programs. . . and also known for making sure the kids involved don't mingle with the kids who are court ordered to be there.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:22:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2014 2:25:50 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:24:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By red_on_black:
Cost for a pre-med student to take the MCAT: $275

Cost to submit AMCAS (the generic online application used by most med schools):$160

Cost to submit AMCAS to additional schools (you get one freebie):$35 per school

Cost for each school's secondary application, which they give you after they receive your AMCAS: $30-100

So, for a student applying to a dozen schools the total cost would be about $275 + 160 + 35(11) + 65(12) =  $1600. And that's before any travel for interviews, etc.
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newsflash, becoming a doctor will be expensive as balls.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:26:45 PM EDT
Another problem is that he's applying to 10 colleges.
Why the hell would you do that? Pick your top 3 and apply to them. Be realistic and understand your limitations.

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:31:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By swingset:

I'll agree with this. There's nothing wrong in questioning a monopoly that performs a simple service, and seems to be profiting obscenely in a role that is supposed to be non-profit. In that way, the CEO's rather large paycheck is a reasonable question to ask...as is the complexity of what they do.

Let the folks at the CB respond and justify their intake, and output....out there for public scrutiny. If it's warranted, then fine...show it.

Kudos for the kid asking the questions.
 
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Originally Posted By swingset:
Originally Posted By ScopeScar:
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:He makes no actual logical argument for WHY records transfers or testing fees should be cheaper, other than some trite and juvenile point about how the CEO make a lot of money.


Actually, he does make a great point.  Why shouldn't the record transfers be electronic and very cheap?

His point that the CEO of this company earns $750,000 for essentially a monopoly service should be sufficient grounds to question why it exists.

Do you think he has access, or would be allowed to get it, to company data to analyze?

Why shouldn't the service just post scores to a central location that any interested college could simply download?  There's no reason for the fee per application model.  There's nothing lol about this.







I'll agree with this. There's nothing wrong in questioning a monopoly that performs a simple service, and seems to be profiting obscenely in a role that is supposed to be non-profit. In that way, the CEO's rather large paycheck is a reasonable question to ask...as is the complexity of what they do.

Let the folks at the CB respond and justify their intake, and output....out there for public scrutiny. If it's warranted, then fine...show it.

Kudos for the kid asking the questions.
 


And if it isn't "warranted", what happens?  Who gets to define what is warranted and what is unwarranted?  

Why should the College Board need to justify anything?  And to whom should they justify it?

Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:36:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bteamleader:

This is a great point.  Kids need to know that if they're borrowing the money to go to school, they had better get a degree that will turn a profit.  I know a young MD who just finished her residency.  At 29 she has a base salary of $175k with a cap of around $300K if she hits her incentives.  She also has $2500 monthly loan payments.  I bet she can make due on $12,000 per month.  

On the other hand, I know guys with worthless masters degrees making coffee or tending bar.  Life is about choices, it helps to make good ones.
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
And that guy has six AP credits.

He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that.

Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here.  Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures.


To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD.  She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life...  with a $2k/mo. student loan payment.

I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane.  And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer.





The cost of education is simply insane at every level.  It cannot continue forever.

This is a great point.  Kids need to know that if they're borrowing the money to go to school, they had better get a degree that will turn a profit.  I know a young MD who just finished her residency.  At 29 she has a base salary of $175k with a cap of around $300K if she hits her incentives.  She also has $2500 monthly loan payments.  I bet she can make due on $12,000 per month.  

On the other hand, I know guys with worthless masters degrees making coffee or tending bar.  Life is about choices, it helps to make good ones.



What you're not factoring in are taxes.  175k is more like 100k after taxes.  She has around 30k per year in loans.  So, the brings in 70k take home after taxes and loans.  Not bad but not as great as 175k sounds.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:44:15 PM EDT
Yeah , well the world still needs ditch diggers.
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