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Posted: 7/5/2012 7:31:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 7:34:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 7:38:29 PM EDT
[#2]
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 7:38:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:


same thing


No they are not.

Link Posted: 7/5/2012 7:57:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.


Or designate English as the official language and require a language test for immigrants seeking citizenship
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:05:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.


Or designate English as the official language and require a language test for immigrants seeking citizenship


this
are there any other first world countries that bend over backwards for immigrants that dont want to assimilate?
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:12:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.


Or designate English as the official language and require a language test for immigrants seeking citizenship


That works....except that:
1) Immigrants are not required to seek citizenship.
2) Many foreign nationals who reside in the US are here durationally and we have no interest in offering them citizenship. They may or may not have other vester interest in learning English.
3) The children of the persons listed in 1 and 2 may or may not be US citizens by birth.
4) By Supreme Court order, even children who are (themselves) illegal immigrants are entitled to a free appropriate public education.
5) Many Spanish Speaking immigrants are US citizens by birth- parents and kids. [Puerto Rican] There are quite a few "all American" kids who come from homes where languages other than English are spoken.
5) Consider the immediate situation- the kid and family are here now. School doesn't magically repeat until the kids and parents become literate in the English necessary to process (what may be complicated) documents. Particularly among Spanish speaking immigrants who have 1st language literacy challenges the focus should be on providing the support necessary to ensure that the child has access to appropriate meaningful education. Schools have limited amounts of time and resources to facilitate that. Providing English language instruction to parents is great- but it could be a while before they master the language and literacy skills necessary to not need translated documents.  
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:14:27 PM EDT
[#7]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.




Or designate English as the official language and require a language test for immigrants seeking citizenship





this

are there any other first world countries that bend over backwards for immigrants that dont want to assimilate?
No. The hard-working people in other countries do everything possible to dis-assimilate, learn English and obtain scholarships to study in the U.S even when that means risking one's own or family's lives.





 
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:15:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.


Or designate English as the official language and require a language test for immigrants seeking citizenship


That works....except that:
1) Immigrants are not required to seek citizenship.
2) Many foreign nationals who reside in the US are here durationally and we have no interest in offering them citizenship. They may or may not have other vester interest in learning English.
3) The children of the persons listed in 1 and 2 may or may not be US citizens by birth.
4) By Supreme Court order, even children who are (themselves) illegal immigrants are entitled to a free appropriate public education.
5) Many Spanish Speaking immigrants are US citizens by birth- parents and kids. [Puerto Rican] There are quite a few "all American" kids who come from homes where languages other than English are spoken.
5) Consider the immediate situation- the kid and family are here now. School doesn't magically repeat until the kids and parents become literate in the English necessary to process (what may be complicated) documents. Particularly among Spanish speaking immigrants who have 1st language literacy challenges the focus should be on providing the support necessary to ensure that the child has access to appropriate meaningful education. Schools have limited amounts of time and resources to facilitate that. Providing English language instruction to parents is great- but it could be a while before they master the language and literacy skills necessary to not need translated documents.  


OK, boot the illegals.  

The rest would learn English if they needed to.  
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:22:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.


Or designate English as the official language and require a language test for immigrants seeking citizenship


this
are there any other first world countries that bend over backwards for immigrants that dont want to assimilate?


Assimilation is wonderful. However, there is a practicality that educators need to address. In some of the early grades, it can be practical to throw (immerse) a kid in an all English learning environment, provide some ESL support, and have a reasonable expectation that the kid will more or less develop academic English skills in a timely fashion. However, as kids get older the more pressing necessity is content and academic skill education (possibly in native language) in conjunction with English language development so as to make sure that a kid stays on something close to an age/grade appropriate track (minimizing social/ emotional harm and maximizing the benefit of the public education process for that child).

Along the way, it is important that school and home be able to interact. The more vehicles that promote that, the better. When parents feel alienated, they get contemptuous with the school and do not promote what it is trying to do for their child- thus reducing the child's likliehood of success. Not only that, but home-school communications are very important to  conveying important information about school and comunity events, programs, policies, etc... Unless there is a desire to create (or stimulate??) some sort of permenant underclass (and related subculture) the most practical policy decision is to take steps necessary to prevent the developing generation from  experiencing the language and literacy problems that their parents likely experiene.
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:25:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:


same thing


Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:25:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.


Or designate English as the official language and require a language test for immigrants seeking citizenship


That works....except that:
1) Immigrants are not required to seek citizenship.
2) Many foreign nationals who reside in the US are here durationally and we have no interest in offering them citizenship. They may or may not have other vester interest in learning English.
3) The children of the persons listed in 1 and 2 may or may not be US citizens by birth.
4) By Supreme Court order, even children who are (themselves) illegal immigrants are entitled to a free appropriate public education.
5) Many Spanish Speaking immigrants are US citizens by birth- parents and kids. [Puerto Rican] There are quite a few "all American" kids who come from homes where languages other than English are spoken.
5) Consider the immediate situation- the kid and family are here now. School doesn't magically repeat until the kids and parents become literate in the English necessary to process (what may be complicated) documents. Particularly among Spanish speaking immigrants who have 1st language literacy challenges the focus should be on providing the support necessary to ensure that the child has access to appropriate meaningful education. Schools have limited amounts of time and resources to facilitate that. Providing English language instruction to parents is great- but it could be a while before they master the language and literacy skills necessary to not need translated documents.  


OK, boot the illegals.  

The rest would learn English if they needed to.  


I know thaqt you're in Texas and things (demographics)  are very different in your part of the country than up here in New England. However, even if every illegal Mexican immigrant magically disappeared- the problem wouldn't.  

According to the Puerto Rican academic records that I have had opportunity to review, English is taught there as early as the primary grades. In reality the ability of many to use the language (esp adults)... it's nt there.

The others definetely would like to learn the language. A good number do put a legit effort into trying to learn it. Remember, though, that learning a second language is an endeavor that takes time (which is of the essence).
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:25:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Speaking from experience, it works so well.

Plenty of people I graduated high school with were immigrants (many of questionable legal status) had just about zero grasp of the English language.

Chew on that one for a little while.. They graduated from a US high school without learning the English language.
How is this doing them a favor?
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:29:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.


Or designate English as the official language and require a language test for immigrants seeking citizenship


That works....except that:
1) Immigrants are not required to seek citizenship.
2) Many foreign nationals who reside in the US are here durationally and we have no interest in offering them citizenship. They may or may not have other vester interest in learning English.
3) The children of the persons listed in 1 and 2 may or may not be US citizens by birth.
4) By Supreme Court order, even children who are (themselves) illegal immigrants are entitled to a free appropriate public education.
5) Many Spanish Speaking immigrants are US citizens by birth- parents and kids. [Puerto Rican] There are quite a few "all American" kids who come from homes where languages other than English are spoken.
5) Consider the immediate situation- the kid and family are here now. School doesn't magically repeat until the kids and parents become literate in the English necessary to process (what may be complicated) documents. Particularly among Spanish speaking immigrants who have 1st language literacy challenges the focus should be on providing the support necessary to ensure that the child has access to appropriate meaningful education. Schools have limited amounts of time and resources to facilitate that. Providing English language instruction to parents is great- but it could be a while before they master the language and literacy skills necessary to not need translated documents.  


My local elementary school has primarily English and Spanish speaking kids but there are over 20 differently languages spoken by the kids in that school ranging from Farsi to French.  According to the retired librarian down the street there are over 70 (including different dialects) spoken district wide.  The school district is constantly out of money and the schools are damn near permanently in the shitter.  What you propose costs a lot of money.  

I have no problem with education, it's what allowed me to be successful, but we cannot afford and we should not continue to cater to every minority out there.  If they are in this country learn the damn language or go home.  My wife is a US citizen because her mother was a US citizen, but was born in Venezuela .  When she came back to the US at 12 she was thrown into a class and expected to pick the language up and did.  Why is it so difficult to do the same now?

I'll answer my own question.  Because we don't have the balls to tell the people learn English or GTFO.   The solution is simple stop printing documents in multiple languages, stop catering to foreigners who refuse to learn the language and they'll pick it up.  For Christ's sake my wife's medical insurance paperwork comes printed in nearly 2 dozen languages every time they send her something, what a fucking waste of paper, time and money.  BCBS does that because the state of CA makes them and that costs us all money.

Anyone can have bleeding heart ideals but they should pay for them out of their own damn pocket.  I tired of footing the bill.  

Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:31:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Speaking from experience, it works so well.

Plenty of people I graduated high school with were immigrants (many of questionable legal status) had just about zero grasp of the English language.

Chew on that one for a little while.. They graduated from a US high school without learning the English language.
How is this doing them a favor?


It's not. Many native English speakers gradaute high school having received susbtandard educations. If a student shows up most of the time and makes even a minimal effort, hitting 60 is not a difficult endeavor. Likewise, the bilingual programming that many students are offered is not optimal- especially for students who enter American school near the end of their academic careers.
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 8:47:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Speaking from experience, it works so well.

Plenty of people I graduated high school with were immigrants (many of questionable legal status) had just about zero grasp of the English language.

Chew on that one for a little while.. They graduated from a US high school without learning the English language.
How is this doing them a favor?


It's not. Many native English speakers gradaute high school having received susbtandard educations. If a student shows up most of the time and makes even a minimal effort, hitting 60 is not a difficult endeavor. Likewise, the bilingual programming that many students are offered is not optimal- especially for students who enter American school near the end of their academic careers.


You're assuming that when the kids got here they were at least proficient in their native language.  The majority of the time they're not even literate and in some cases have very little language skills at all regardless of their age.  When dealing with a kid that's is illiterate in their native language, it is absurd to spend time and money to get them proficient in a foreign language and then try to teach them a 2nd language.  

Locally many districts offer English classes for the parents.  Frankly they should be mandatory, we would all benefit from a society in which most people share the same language.  However, these days it is much easier to stay tied to the home country and language with satellite the Internet and such.  There is very little incentive to integrate.
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 9:05:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.


phideaux no se habla espanol and could not give one shit about learning to habla. put them in their own fucking schools, and make them pay for it or gtfo of the USA. I do long term substitute assignments, and I refuse to pander to illegals and their kids. don't understand English? tough shit, there's special classes for you down the hall.
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 9:12:11 PM EDT
[#17]
If I went to Germany or Thailand to live and work I would have enough respect to learn the  as much of the language and customs of those people as I could. I don't think it's asking too much for people that come to the U.S. to do the same.
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 9:14:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.


Or designate English as the official language and require a language test for immigrants seeking citizenship


+1 Border states are a little different than ct.
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 9:14:17 PM EDT
[#19]





anyone have a Brazilian to Portuguese dictionary ?



 
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 9:33:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Can I move to (insert country here) and expect the same thing? Fuck no! Why should we bend over backwards for the minority? If you live here, learn fucking English. Additionally, if we are going to make documents in Spanish why not every other language in the world?
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 10:04:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Learning English is not too much to ask.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/5/2012 10:08:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I know it might seem like a burden, but it is really necessary and beneficial that schools provide material to parents in their language to facilitate home/ school communication and promote parental involvement in their child's education. Ensuring access to such documents, particularly when there is a high concentration of one or more (non-dominant) groups in an area is reasonable.  Where I live/ work, documents go home in English and three other languages. Because of state law, and practicalities, the district also had to hire teachers and paras who speak (which are hard to find). Informal support is also provided in a fourth language. Kids shouldn't be deprived of an education (or be given a lesser one) because of the language they/ and or their parents speak natively.


How about learn the fucking language in the country you are living in, as much as possible?


Yes, accomodations can be made in certain circumstances...across the board?   No.
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