[url]http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3bc303712309.htm[/url]

Source: Wisconsin State Journal
Published: 10/8/01 Author: Doug Erickson Education reporter

Can't use Pledge of Allegiance to comply with law, schools told
The Madison School Board barred schools on Monday from using the Pledge of Allegiance as a way to comply with a new state law that requires a daily patriotism dose.

Instead, schools can use only the national anthem - and then only instrumental versions of it. No words.

The 3-2 board vote came after several parents and teachers complained that the pledge, which contains the line "one nation, under God," is a religious oath that doesn't belong in public schools. Others criticized the pledge for promoting nationalism and militarism.

Board President Calvin Williams, who voted with the majority, said the board's action is the "least intrusive and least offensive" way to comply with the law.

"We've chosen a reasonable compromise that preserves freedom of expression on both ends of the spectrum and doesn't trample on anyone's rights," he said.

The law, which took effect Sept. 1, requires schools to offer the pledge or anthem daily in grades 1 to 12. Madison implemented the law last week, with Superintendent Art Rainwater leaving it up to each school to decide whether the pledge or anthem would be offered and in what format.

The heaviest criticism has been aimed at those elementary schools where the pledge is being read over the public address system. Although the law says students cannot be forced to participate, critics said children have little choice but to listen to it when it's broadcast throughout the school.

"What we're doing here is opening up a very slippery slope," said Sally Franz, an educational assistant at Cherokee Middle School and one of six people who criticized the law Monday. "Indoctrination leads to totalitarianism, and we're approaching that moment."

Board member Bill Keys' motion instructs schools to broadcast an instrumental version of the anthem at a time deemed appropriate by administrators. This option will allow dissenting students to opt out less conspicuously, reducing the chances for harassment, he said.

Williams and Carol Carstensen agreed with Keys. Carstensen said the motion in no way prohibits the teaching of the pledge for educational reasons or the singing of the anthem in music class. And students can say the pledge on their own during the school day, she said.

Ruth Robarts and Shwaw Vang opposed the motion, with both saying it doesn't go far enough to protect the rights of dissenters. "It's a step in the right direction, but it doesn't remove the coerciveness of the classroom situation," Robarts said. She wanted the anthem to be offered before or after classes.

Ray Allen and Juan Jose Lopez were absent. Reached later, Lopez said he opposes the motion.

"I would not have voted to ban the Pledge of Allegiance," he said. "We live in the United States of America, and people should be given the choice."

I doubt very much that Sally is so sensitive about indoctrinating children when they're being fed socialist/anti-American beliefs. [rolleyes]

This has been big news here in Madison the last few days.  It's starting to drive me nucking futs.

I would applaud this move if it sounded like they were encouraging independent thought and rational analysis of the state and people's role in it.  I can dream, right?  It's obviously because the social engineers and attendant lightweights have a very left-leaning agenda for America and patriotism (even the misguided kind) is their mortal enemy.

Any fool can see that the public education system is a total failure.  The number of sheeple in this nation has reached absurdly high levels.

SHEEEESH !!!! What is with you Wisconsin people....cheese, packers and COMMIES !!!!!
[BD]

Don't forget the "#1 place for carpet munchers to live" thread...

You know what, if you are offended by the symbols of this nation (flags, pledge, anthems, etc.) then the solution is to move to a nation whose symbols are least offensive.  

Which nation has an AK on the flag?  We should try putting an M16 on our flag and seeing how many liberals pee their pants over that one.



I can see it now, our future anthem is... "humm hmm hmm hummm, humm, huuummmm.  Hum hum hummm, hummmhumhum..."

[b]pledge to the earth[/b]

Maybe they would like to use this pledge to SOCIALISM

[url]http://www.calnra.org/galanter1.html[/url]

[red]"I pledge allegiance to the earth on which I stand, one world, one people, undivided, with food, shelter, and justice for all."[/red]

OH NO!!  We wouldn't want that in a time of war!  The poor children!  I hope they are not psychologically damaged from the patriotism since Sept. 11.  Have no fear, our socialist friends will remedy that soon enough.

I'm too angry even to have a decent reply.

[-!-]

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[USA]

despite the tendency to stereotype otherwise, not all teachers in the public school systems are left-leaning mental midgets.  besides, i have yet to hear a liberal use the words "indoctrination" and/or "totalitarianism".

thats pathetic. this is a free country. if someone has a problem with patriotic songs and such they can ignore it .  we dont force anyone to be patriotic. THE WHOLE NO PRAYER IN SCHOOL IS BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those three f***ing idiots should be shot for treason!  I mean it!  I'm sick of these idiots destroying our country! [USA]

Listen to the language these people are using. Who in the f*ck would dissent to The Pledge or The National Anthem? WTF is wrong with these people?

If you're here, living in this country and attending school here (and I don't mean foreign college students here on VISAs), you sure as f*ck better pledge or GET THE HELL OUT!

When I was a kid growing up I never heard of anyone refusing to say The Pledge in school. Holy sh*t!

F*cking Madison! Berkeley North!

You know, with all the crap going on I can't believe this is happening. The behavior of our people during these troubling times will clearly serve as an indication as to who is with us, and who is against us.

Would that be the Lewinsky rendition :-)?

God it's good to be back! Been busy attempting to get my pilot's license when the SHTF.

When I was in grade school, in Seabrook, TX, we had a large number of Vietnamese refugees' children attending. They were new to this country, and they did not speak much English.

I do remember them, in their broken English, hand over heart, ferverently reciting the Pledge with more emotion than those of us born here.

1972-ish.

Don Out

This just pisses me off!

BKVic