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Posted: 8/20/2004 4:54:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 10:36:19 AM EST by MrsGungho]
This morning 14 y/o comes out wearing a skirt and top. I looked at her and said, "Isn't that skirt to short?" She extended her arms down and the length was well below her fingertips. Dress code is skirts, shorts, cutoffs etc. must be below fingertip length. So I let her go to school. I get a call at about 12:15, it is daughter, "Mom can you come get me, I have to change my skirt, they said it was to short." She even extended fingers for the Dean, "To bad, I say it is to short, you need to change and not wear it again." School starts at 7:30 am. so almost 5 hrs after school starts, only 2 more hrs to go and she needs to change. When she wasn't breaking the dress code policy they sent home. Should I call and complain or just sit idle and let it ride? I don't like to interfere with things, but today just really pissed me off.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:24:22 PM EST
Did you go pick her up? I wouldn't have! I would have gone to the school and had a 'discussion' with the dean. If her clothing was within the dress code as described in the handbook, no, she wouldn't have changed or left school.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:28:20 PM EST
Bad mom moment about to be confessed here. I made her walk home in the rain. First off I didn't know it was raining, but I had just laid the baby down for a nap, I wasn't going to wake him to go get her. I did have a neighbor take her back though. I know we were right, I just don't know if this fight is worth figthing. KWIM?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:29:57 PM EST
It honestly depends on how much it pissed you off. Given the right day/mood I would probably wind up in the principal's office asking for a written copy of the guidelines that prove my daughter's skirt was too short. Was your daughter upset by the situation at all? Because they would rile me up too. If she was upset then I would pursue it with the school. Otherwise, as long as it doesn't happen again I would let it go. That doesn't mean you can't mention it to the school principal next time you see him.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:45:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 5:50:02 PM EST by Ogre_4070]
Is it a fight worth fighting? That is entirely up to you and your daughter. I'm not very tolerant of this kind of thing. I don't know how your school system is but there is a lot of favoritism shown to certain groups in the schools here. I think all rules should apply equally so I would probably say something. I have always tried to set an example to my kids by sticking up for what I believe and what is right. If I couldn't have gone to the school, I would have asked to speak to the dean on the phone.

BTW, my kids' teachers hate to see me . I have never been rude or obnoxious but I stick up for my kids.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:49:51 PM EST
The situation is definitely not fair, but it is your call whether or not it is worth fighting. I would certainly ask him why he felt the skirt was too short if it was within the dress code. Did someone complain? How should you measure her skirts from now on?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:07:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 7:08:52 PM EST by wifeofgunnut]
I would complain. If they say fingertip length, then they can not turn around and say "too bad I think it's too short." But, next time trust your gut and if you think it's not right for school, tell her to change. eta - In our area skirts can not be more than so many inches above the knee. You should suggest that your daughter's school uses this to measure skirts instead. Everyone has different length arms and legs, but the knee thing seems to work better.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:06:49 AM EST
I wouldnt complain too much. You thought that the skirt was too short too. Speaking from an immature males perspective I used to love it when a girl would wear a short skirt to school. Speaking as a doting uncle, I would not let my neices go anywhere near boys if I thought the skirt was too short.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 1:39:40 AM EST
If something like that happened with my son, ! I would have to see how upset he was over it,2it would depend on my mood as to whether I wanted to fight that battle. Most likely yes,because I have seen my sons school do the same thing as far as rules and some kids get called on them and others don't. It is up to you though. I wish you luck,and I was glad my son graduated this year so I don't have to deal with schools on any level anymore.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 9:49:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 9:53:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 10:18:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
So, you asked her if it was too short and it met the "code". You obviously felt it was not appropriate for school <or did i read that wrong?> .The dean seemed to agree for whatever reason and sent her home. Dress codes are a touchy thing. What may qualify under one rule may very well break another. <ie.... length is fine, but may be too revealing>

mike



Where to start. Ok, S has very long legs (Like mom) anything looks to short on her. So I did the fingertip test to make sure it went past her fingers. By a good inch, but it didn't even come to mid thigh on her. Dress code clearly states skirts must be past your fingertips. I've pretty much given up trying to tell the girls it isn't appropriate. You just can't find anything suitable out there anymore. It's all short, low rise, belly baring shit.
I see what your saying B_S, it was to revealing, but with her leg length, not much we can do about it. I think I am more upset about it then her. She's at her dads for the weekend and I am sitting her stewing over it. For now, I'll let it go, in the future, if she continually is sent home, I will raise cane. I seen some of the other girls come out the same day after school wearing things much worse.
FYI.. the dean is a female. As my S puts it, short, squatty, ugly bitch. (wonder where she gets that language from )
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:50:59 PM EST
Why does the song "Harper Valley PTA" keep running through my head?

In answer to your question, I have had my run-ins with the schools, but I would probably let this one go since it is already over. However, if you have an infant or other responsibilities in your life, you don't want this kind of thing to happen all the time. You just can't keep dropping everything and running to school to pick her up when she has violated no rules. If it persisits, you may have to tell them to pack sand.

As a father to two teenage daughters (God, help me!), I say "Put more clothes on!!!"


Originally Posted By MrsGungho:
You just can't find anything suitable out there anymore. It's all short, low rise, belly baring shit.



This is a sore point with me, too. My oldest daughter has all that low-rise jean crap. She and my wife claim nobody sells anything else. I find that hard to believe. Yes, I've been to the store with them (Kohl's - the young sales girl was such a stick ... I wanted to cram a sammich down her throat!) and that's all they have. I think if we went to a store where they sold more practical stuff (work/farm/western clothes), that it might be different. I mean, somebody must sell burlap bags and nun's habits!
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 1:51:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 1:53:40 PM EST by GabbasaurusRex]
Hey, you discussed it ahead of time, she was following the rules according the code of conduct. I wouldn't let this just sit. If she gets punished for it, then you need to have a meeting with the dean and bring along a copy of the school rules. If she doesn't get punished, I would still at least write a letter to the dean letting her know that your daughter wasn't in the wrong and that you checked the length of her skirt ahead of time. I personally am a bit of a tomboy and never wore skirts like to school so I never really had to deal with this, but I had a lot of friend sthta did. Hey, your daughter was following the rules. She can argue that.

I'm not suggesting this with an air of feminazism; I only suggest it because it sounds like it could be a big warning sign as to how the dean applies the rules. Maybe this is just one incident where she happened to have a tampon stuck up her ass and picked what she thought was an easy target.

Keep us posted if anything happens.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 2:44:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By RodeoFan:
Why does the song "Harper Valley PTA" keep running through my head?

This is a sore point with me, too. My oldest daughter has all that low-rise jean crap. She and my wife claim nobody sells anything else. I find that hard to believe. Yes, I've been to the store with them (Kohl's - the young sales girl was such a stick ... I wanted to cram a sammich down her throat!) and that's all they have. I think if we went to a store where they sold more practical stuff (work/farm/western clothes), that it might be different. I mean, somebody must sell burlap bags and nun's habits!



If you find a spot, let me know, 2 teen girls here too and I am going crazy!!!
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 3:41:00 PM EST
Well, mid-thigh is rather short. I am a tall, long-legged chick myself, so I understand how hard it is to find a skirt long enough to look appropriate. I would be uncomfortable in fingertip length skirts in polite company. (Yes, I am modest.)

To play devil's advocate: In a way, I find this dean to be slightly refreshing because I am so sick of the "no tolerance" (which really means "no common sense") policies. Most schools don't even need principals or deans anymore because evrything is punished exactly as it is written, which sounds good in theory, but there are always unusual circumstances that go outside the rules and need to be dealt with differently. I can see where it isn't particularly fair to her because of her build, but the dean actually made a judgement call of his own, which tells me that he is capable of thinking beyond the rule books. I would not get overly angry with the situation, but ask him politely for a clarification of the rules as they pertain to your daughter.

The bad thing about the 3"above the knee rule (which was used in my school), is that people with my build will find it very nearly impossible to find shorts or skirts that length. I also had a friend in HS who was all of 4'10", and 3" above her knee showed half her rear end. The fingertip rule is a little more fair to different builds, but still has room for error. Maybe they could state "fingertip length and no more than 4" of exposed thigh"...?
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 8:08:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
one more thing.

from a dads perspective,

picking a fight over trivial matters doesn't teach the child anything useful and brands the kids parents as trouble makers <trust me on this it happend with my ex wife and daughter>. I causes the kid extra greif. Sometimes administrators make stupid decisions and life is not fair all the time. If it affects her life, grades, or future, raise hell. If it doesn't it's probobly not worth the fight. You won't change their minds and you will get the ulcer, not them.

mike



From a mother's perspective,

I do not fight over trivial matters. As with anything concerning kids, you learn to pick your battles. I don't run to schools everytime my child has a problem. Actually, very few times in the past 15 years that I have had kids in school. Some things I will let slide or if my child asks me to let them handle it, I let them. If you present your case properly, you CAN get them to change their minds. I don't believe I have been labeled as a troublemaker; I do believe the teachers have respect for me and they have told me that they wish more parents were involved with their children. However, if they wish to think I am a troublemaker for standing up for what is right and fair, then so be it; I really don't care what they think of me. My only concern is the welfare of my children.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 8:19:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrsGungho:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
So, you asked her if it was too short and it met the "code". You obviously felt it was not appropriate for school <or did i read that wrong?> .The dean seemed to agree for whatever reason and sent her home. Dress codes are a touchy thing. What may qualify under one rule may very well break another. <ie.... length is fine, but may be too revealing>

mike



Where to start. Ok, S has very long legs (Like mom) anything looks to short on her. So I did the fingertip test to make sure it went past her fingers. By a good inch, but it didn't even come to mid thigh on her. Dress code clearly states skirts must be past your fingertips. I've pretty much given up trying to tell the girls it isn't appropriate. You just can't find anything suitable out there anymore. It's all short, low rise, belly baring shit.
I see what your saying B_S, it was to revealing, but with her leg length, not much we can do about it. I think I am more upset about it then her. She's at her dads for the weekend and I am sitting her stewing over it. For now, I'll let it go, in the future, if she continually is sent home, I will raise cane. I seen some of the other girls come out the same day after school wearing things much worse.
FYI.. the dean is a female. As my S puts it, short, squatty, ugly bitch. (wonder where she gets that language from )




It is over now so I would agree with letting it go for now. If it happens again I would say something though. The problem I have with this is the fact that she was sent home after being there for most of the day. If it was appropriate for the first few hours of the day, why not the last two? If she was going to send her home it should have been at the beginning of the day.

When my kids started school the dress code stated 3 inches above the knee; now they have the fingertip rule. When I was in school we had neither of these - there was a list of 'body parts' we were not to expose.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 5:37:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:42:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 10:43:30 AM EST by MrsGungho]
Well one thing I can say about S is she stands up for what she knows is right. I never did call the school, to many things going on and never made the time. So today as she is dashing out of the house for school, I yell at her, "I'm not coming to get you if you need to change". She had on the offensive skirt.
Well she just got home, Dean says to her today, that's to short. S says kindly to her, it is past my fingertips, the rules are past the fingertips, therefore I am allowed to wear it. Dean says she still feels it is to short. S tells her, my legs are long so it looks shorter then it actually is, I am not breaking any rules. Dean tells her technically yes the rules say fingertip, but it is left up to them if they feel it is inappropriate, they can send child home to change. So S says to her, if this is the case, then it needs to be in the written policy, until then, I will wear it and there is nothing that can be done.
Can we say my jaw dropped to the floor, I never got a call, she never came home, and she was allowed to wear the skirt the rest of the day. My little girl has some balls.



Edited because I can't spell
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:48:21 AM EST

My little girl has some balls.





In that case, I would request a longer skirt too.


jk
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:49:37 AM EST
Mid-thigh would be to short for my daughter (although after the birth of my daughter I have been known to say I think those muslims are on to something with the burrka (sp)). Plus your first instinct was that it was to short. Always listen to your mom-instinct.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 1:37:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrsGungho:
FYI.. the dean is a female. As my S puts it, short, squatty, ugly bitch. (wonder where she gets that language from )



My brother works part time at Home Depot. The HR lady at his store is a huge, ugly, nasty bitch. Good looking females never get hired at his store.

Based on your description of the Dean and your daughter's long legs, it sounds like she was guilty of "good looks." (not in a slutty way, but just plain 'ol good looks).
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:24:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrsWildweasel:
If something like that happened with my son, ! I would have to see how upset he was over it,2it would depend on my mood as to whether I wanted to fight that battle. Most likely yes,because I have seen my sons school do the same thing as far as rules and some kids get called on them and others don't. It is up to you though. I wish you luck,and I was glad my son graduated this year so I don't have to deal with schools on any level anymore.



Me too....I hate it when my son wears short skirts to school, buts he says that all he can find to buy. He is 6'2" and 210lbs.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:28:24 PM EST
1911lover.... VERYYYYYY Funny God forbid he ever were a skirt. Although sometimes with the jeans hanging off his ass,I never understood why the school let them wear that crap.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:07:45 PM EST

picking a fight over trivial matters doesn't teach the child anything useful and brands the kids parents as trouble makers


I disagree. I would not say it is trivial. Are all of us who stand up for our 2nd amendment rights troublemakers? If anything it teaches the child that the standard can't be selectively enforced or selectively interpretated. If it were my daughter I would have told her to sit tight and I would contact the dean. I would have ask the dean if my daughter had met the standard (in your case she did) and if she did, as I know she did, I would have asked him what the problem was. If he still had further issue with it, I would have explained my circumstances to him. As in your case, the infant. Had he further wanted to pressure the issue I would inform him that my attorney would contact him next. I am in no way saying what you did was wrong. Just expressing another technique. Good luck with this issue. i have a fealing this isn't the last we'll her of this.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:52:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 8:59:34 PM EST by loonybin]
I'll give my input as a father and a formerly hormone-driven teenage boy.

The fingertip-length limit is way too short and variable. My fingertips come about 1.5" below my crotch. A girl with the same distance would be flashing everyone when she sits down wearing a skirt of that length. For the girl with really long arms and short torso, it wouldn't be as bad. Even you thought it was too short. The teen guys are loving seeing your daughter in short skirts.

There are alternatives. I don't know what your religious/philosophical bent is, but there is a group that puts on a "Pure Fashion" fashion show with stylish, yet modest clothes. Here's a link to a story:
More modest clothes

Another option is to find some styles that your daughter likes in a catalog or whatnot and find a local seamstress (or whatever they're called) who makes clothes and can modify the style to be longer/less revealing. Chances are it'll cost less, too.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:10:48 AM EST
As an educator (although at my institution kids wear uniforms for everything. PE, After school sports, EVERYTHING), I appreciate the dean saying the skirt is too short, proves they pay attention. Have you thought about saying to the dean, "This created a problem with my daughter because the skirt complied with the letter of the school policy." and maybe add "Were you to draft a different policy (knee length, within x inches of knee, whatever) these 'rules' would be easier to enforce, and not force YOU to make subjective decisions." Because in the end, the problem with subjective calls is that they are NOT uniform. Some people get away with dress code violations because of being less visible for whatever reason. This is an opportunity to prove that you are involved as a parent, and want to SUPPORT the administrators so that they can avoid the problem that a less co-operative parent may cause. I think most admin types would quickly realize (and you may want to remind them) that you could be in there taking someone's head off adding words to the rules.

shooter
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:27:39 AM EST
I've been a similar situation, except the school couldn't get a hold of me. They made her wear her PE shorts instead of the too short skirt. The skirt was mid-thigh, the PE shorts were upper thigh length. Go figure.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:25:52 PM EST
Another guy response here. I'd have to say first off that for the most part that most parents usually do have their children's best interest at heart...not some bonehead at the schoolhouse. Let someone do something to my son. Actually something did happen one time. I responded bright and early the very next morning by going to see the pricipal with my 1911A1 stuck in the wasteband of my BDUs. I guess my wife called the dude and told hime I was coming and that I was pissed off. You see my son got his arm broken at school at lunch break. He wasnt allowed to call home when he said his arm was hurting. He rode home on the school bus that afternoon. I was very pissed off. I was so mad I was getting tunnel vision when I was waiting in the office to see the principal. Lucky for him he left after my wife called. Noone would even talk to me, the place cleared out when I walked in. The assistant principal was a younger black lady. She was the only one who had guts to speak to me. She asked me to calm down and relax. After talking to her I could tell that she was very intelligent and a reasonable person. I am glad that she was there that day. Things might have been different. Anyway, some of us can go to the extreme. You already know what the right thing to do is. You just want some reinforcement I think. Is it right for your daughter to get sent home from school like that? Maybe not. Was it worth a fight? Maybe not. If you question what your child does it is up to you to not give anyone else the opportunity. If someone harms your child at school or allows harm to come to them? All bets are off, IT'S ON THEN.

Good luck to you and your daughter,

Wes
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:11:36 AM EST
thx everyone.. wes included.

We had open house at the school early last week. As we are rounding a corner to go to yet another class room so I can hear "You have a lovely daughter she is no trouble, her grades are execellent" again. I see the Dean relaxing in a chair in the hall, waiting to give directions to a parent if need be. I asked her if we could speak. of course she said yes, I explained to her my concerns, how even though my child had been following the dress code that day, and the day a week or so later that she wore the same thing, you sent her home and threatened to send her home. She said she felt it was to short, that the dress code was in place, but it was still her right as dean to place judgement on something she deemed inappropriate. I said that was fine, but in the future, if you feel it is offensive, instead of sending said child home, warn them, explain to them why it isn't, let them finish the day then send them home the next time it is worn. I told her I felt it was unfair that the written policy did not specify she could over rule the dress code if she felt like it. Well guess what came home on Friday..... A new dress code.
"shorts & skirts must come past the fingertip OR be midthigh in length, whichever is longer. Staff are also able to judge if an outfit does not meet the environment we wish to have here at TCH Academy and we can send students home if we feel the outfit is inappropriate.
That was all I wanted int he first place, a clarification on the dress code and it was done. Miss S will NOT be wearing said skirt to school again, even though it is mid thigh and is past her fingertips. She is cursed with the long legs that make it look shorter then it really is.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:50:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrsGungho:
thx everyone.. wes included.

We had open house at the school early last week. As we are rounding a corner to go to yet another class room so I can hear "You have a lovely daughter she is no trouble, her grades are execellent" again. I see the Dean relaxing in a chair in the hall, waiting to give directions to a parent if need be. I asked her if we could speak. of course she said yes, I explained to her my concerns, how even though my child had been following the dress code that day, and the day a week or so later that she wore the same thing, you sent her home and threatened to send her home. She said she felt it was to short, that the dress code was in place, but it was still her right as dean to place judgement on something she deemed inappropriate. I said that was fine, but in the future, if you feel it is offensive, instead of sending said child home, warn them, explain to them why it isn't, let them finish the day then send them home the next time it is worn. I told her I felt it was unfair that the written policy did not specify she could over rule the dress code if she felt like it. Well guess what came home on Friday..... A new dress code.
"shorts & skirts must come past the fingertip OR be midthigh in length, whichever is longer. Staff are also able to judge if an outfit does not meet the environment we wish to have here at TCH Academy and we can send students home if we feel the outfit is inappropriate.
That was all I wanted int he first place, a clarification on the dress code and it was done. Miss S will NOT be wearing said skirt to school again, even though it is mid thigh and is past her fingertips. She is cursed with the long legs that make it look shorter then it really is.




good for you, lady
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:22:11 PM EST
I think you did very good. You made them get off their lazy tails and rewrite the rules so they are more understandable. You made them think about what they were doing :)

Lots of school teachers and college instructers are hardcore liberal democrats. That is just the way they do things. They paint pictures in shades of grey until you call them on it. Looks like you got the full color version. Good deal.


Wes
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