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Posted: 3/12/2005 10:26:48 AM EST
Hey guys. I've been hired to supervise a security force at a fairly high speed site. Manning's kinda tight and I need to keep down OT. altho some is currently unavoidable. I've come up with two different schedules, each with it's own advantages and disadvantages for both me and the officers. Everybody here works shifts; which schedule would you rather work?

Schedule One: Five 8 hour shifts and two days off. Most officers rotate between days and swings or swings and mids. Days off are fixed; either M/T, T/W, or Sat/Sun depending on your luck of the draw with shift assignment. There's one open post, a weekend day shift, that somebody either volunteers for or gets put in every week. The open post is the only OT available except for call-offs/vacation.

Schedule Two: A modified 3-2-2-3 (Panama) schedule. 3 days on, 2 off, 2 on, 3 off. It's a mixture of 10, 12, and 14 hour shifts. Week One an officer works two 12s and two 10s, Week Two they work two 14s and one 12. One of the 14s is always a slow weekend shift, so there's only one brutal busy 14 every other week. No rotating, fixed either days or nights. Each officer has every other T/F/Sat off. Each officer has four hours of OT every other week.

The first schedule would be easier for me as a sup-much easier to fill call-offs and vacation time. But I'm trying to look after my guys, and if I was in their spot I'd rather have every other weekend T/F/Sat off and guarunteed OT every other week. What do you think?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:33:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:36:16 AM EST
If it was my choice I would prefer the second schedule. Our Patrol guys work a bull shit 6 on 2 off for four weeks, then go to a 5 on 3 off for two weeks, then back to the 6/2. If you work in a Narcotics division, or a Street clothes detail, you work 5 on 2 off with rotating Sat/Sun, Sun/Mon every week!
My point....a 5/2 schedule can be a long week if you work a second job or a lot of OT! I would much rather have a short week with rotating weekend days off. A 14 hour shift once a week or every other week is nothing! Your second schedule looks GREAT if you ask me!

Sean
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:42:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Striker:
These are your only 2 options?
I use to work a 7 on / 3 off, 7 on / 4 off schedule. 8 hour shifts. It was brutal and we only had 1 weekend off a month.
We are working a 4 on / 5 off 12 hour rotation now and it's great.
How many officers and how many "posts" do you have?



Yeah, there are a lot of great schedules I came up with but couldn't do because of OT requirements.

I don't really want to get into specifics. Let's just say I have four elements and 24/7/365 coverage.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:47:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Irish317:
If it was my choice I would prefer the second schedule. Our Patrol guys work a bull shit 6 on 2 off for four weeks, then go to a 5 on 3 off for two weeks, then back to the 6/2. If you work in a Narcotics division, or a Street clothes detail, you work 5 on 2 off with rotating Sat/Sun, Sun/Mon every week!
My point....a 5/2 schedule can be a long week if you work a second job or a lot of OT! I would much rather have a short week with rotating weekend days off. A 14 hour shift once a week or every other week is nothing! Your second schedule looks GREAT if you ask me!

Sean



Thanks! That's what I was thinking-the 8 hour plan I kind of inherited and had to work with to suit my needs. The second is a modification of a twelve hour schedule I worked in the AF, but I had to massage it quite a bit to meet OT factors. I spent a lot of time working it out and I'm pretty proud of it as I've never had to make one up before-well, I'll be proud if my officers like it.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 12:04:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 12:31:49 PM EST
I work 12 hr shifts..
3 on/4 off

and it goes

3on/4off - 3on/4off - 3on/4off- 3on/3off

The last short week jumps the days back one, so we're stuck in weekends for a couple moths at a time. But it's a good schedule with good time off.

It depends on how many hours a week you require of your personnel.

Ours comes out to 1856 hours a year.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 12:56:01 PM EST
We're on 12 hr shifts - 2 on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, 3 off. One week you work M/T, have W/Th off, work F/S/Su..then the next week is the opposite.

It works out to 84 hrs every two weeks, so you get a choice to come in 4 hours late or go home 4 hours early once every pay period.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 1:53:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wombat_SCSO:
We're on 12 hr shifts - 2 on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, 3 off. One week you work M/T, have W/Th off, work F/S/Su..then the next week is the opposite.

It works out to 84 hrs every two weeks, so you get a choice to come in 4 hours late or go home 4 hours early once every pay period.



Yeah, that's the schedule I based mine off. We used to call that a "Panama" schedule in the AF-no idea why, maybe SPs first starting using it at Howard. But that one is no good for me because it's 36 hours one week and 48 the next. Actually, according to our pay cycle, the F/S/S off version gives you 60 hours one week and 24 the next. Can't do it-too much OT.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 2:55:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 3:57:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 8:31:35 PM EST by natez]

Originally Posted By Wombat_SCSO:
We're on 12 hr shifts - 2 on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, 3 off. One week you work M/T, have W/Th off, work F/S/Su..then the next week is the opposite.

It works out to 84 hrs every two weeks, so you get a choice to come in 4 hours late or go home 4 hours early once every pay period.



We work the exact same sked and it has been my favorite so far. Lots of time off and you can minimize the OT easily (or just factor in 4 hours OT). If you are using this sked, under federal law anyhow, you are technically using an 84 hour two-week pay cycle. OT actually doesn't start until your employees work over 84 hours (hours 81-84 can be paid at "straight time") during the whole two week period, as opposed to after 40 hours in week 1 and 40 hours in week 2, but most employers using this typically start to pay OT at 80 hours out of fairness when compared with those on 40-hour weekly skeds. You can run 12 hour shifts without breaking the OT bank. Twelves also allow a greater number of employees persent at more time than other manning schemes and build coherent teams better, because RDOs are in a block for the shift and you don't have to schedule RDOs and cover gaps. I think the manning formula for 8s is 1.6 employees per slot that MUST be filled, 1.8 for 10s, and 1.2 for 12s. I also vaguely recall a big study from a PD in California from the 1970s or 1980s that found less absenteeism, healthier employees and more job satisfaction and general health on 12s.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 4:18:37 PM EST
We work 6 on 3 off. There are 3 "rotations" on each shift.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 6:03:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wave:
I kind of work schedule one...it's OK I guess.

I'd love to work 4 on 4 off 10 hour shifts.



+1
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:55:54 PM EST
why dont you do like my department 3 on 3 off 12 hours 8am-8Pm or 8PM to 8AM.You work only 15 days a month. one pay period its 96 hours the next it is 84 hours and the next is 72 hours just a suggestion
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:27:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wombat_SCSO:
We're on 12 hr shifts - 2 on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, 3 off. One week you work M/T, have W/Th off, work F/S/Su..then the next week is the opposite.

It works out to 84 hrs every two weeks, so you get a choice to come in 4 hours late or go home 4 hours early once every pay period.



I work the same exact schedule. Awesome.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:23:28 PM EST
We worked 12 hour shifts also, every other weekend off, + plus you can plan your off time for the whole year. It goes m-t days, off w-t, f-s-s nights, off m-t, w-t days, off f-s-s and m-t nights and so on. 84 hours every two weeks, sometimes you get paid for the 4 hours over, or sometimes you get comp time if they don't want to pay ot.

They tried to put us on a 8 hour shift schedule one time and we almost rioted, complained to the press, etc. They backed down 12's are so superior to 8's or any other schedule that once you work them you'll never want to work any other.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 8:43:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2005 8:45:59 PM EST by brian4wd]
My dept is on 12s, 6A-6P/6P-6A, - 3 on/4 off, 4 on/3 off. Shifts are T/W/TH/F or F/S/S/M - the Friday is the alternating day. 84 hours in a pay period - pay period goes Mon thru Sunday, the 4 hours are put in 'holiday' time at straight rate. Minimum shift is 3 officers plus W/C. It works pretty well and most of the veterans like this schedule a lot better than 5/8s or 4/10s.

14 hour days would kick my arse - I have a 1 hour commute each direction.

Only downside I see (I"m a new guy) is that we have no overlap between shifts so unless it's 30 min or less before shift change you're getting the paper.

Brian
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 9:08:08 AM EST
We do something similar to brian4wd (different alternating day). It works pretty well, day shift sucks but you're only on that for 2 months or so and it is back to nights.
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