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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/19/2001 10:25:33 AM EDT
First off, let em say,as someone who has someone VERY close to them who was molested as a child, let me say I have a special sensitivity for victims and detest for rapists. That said...here's my deal - I try to go to the gym 3-5 days a wekk, at lunch for a thirty min workout. There's this blonde bombshell there that good enuf lookin' without giving anything away for free. But today, she shows up in sweats and a "bra" that could only be described as "barely legal" My question is, do such women, to a point, deserve what they get??? A little analysis, if I may. Assuming she is at least 20 years old (she SURE looks it [:D] ) 1. Does she realize that men are turned on by the sight of bare skin?? Not only that, I'd say shes COUNTING on it. 2. Does she realize that there are CRAZIES out there who will act on their sexual impulses , without regard for legality or self control (i.e. rape women)?? I'd say shes watched enuf TV to know that to be true. So, do women who dress scantily in public EARN to some degree the treatment they get??? Is it my fault if I get hit by a car becasue I didn;t look both ways before crossing the street??? Do i then get to sue the driver, opr should the driver go to jail??? granted, the sane self-cotrolled men among us should "be the bigger man" and do the right thing. But when a woman KNOWS there are NUTZO people out there, and they STILL put themselves in harms way, what are we to do??? Editors Note: If a scantily clad women were to be raped in front of me, I would have NO guilt in shooting the rapist dead, and giving the girl my short) Nomex on.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 10:39:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2001 10:51:57 AM EDT by Imbroglio]
IMO it is like wearing lots of gold and flashing wads of cash in public. Sooner or later you are going to attract someone that wants what you have and will take it by force. When it happens you have to take partial responsibility for placing yourself in the situation.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 10:47:26 AM EDT
Part of me says, "If you've got it, flaunt it." But the rational part of me says, why fuel a fire. Some of the women I see have "self-esteem issues", and dress to get attention. The women I know that are really self-confident, don't shake it 'til they break it. Despite the blonde bomb looking really hot, I bet she cries at night when she looks in the mirror.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 10:50:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 11:03:11 AM EDT
The prevailing thought, at least from the violence prevention and women's groups, is that sexual assault is an act of violence. It is the attackers way of gaining power and control over the victim by violating her/him physically. Does wearing revealing clothing contribute? I don't think it does or women at the beach and swimming pools would be getting gang banged all over the parking lot. What definitely DOES contribute is how the victim dealt with the attacker prior to the attack, if there was any contact and it was not a random attack. If the attacker felt put down, or demeaned then rape is their way of getting back at the victim and forcing her/him into a subservient position totally at the mercy of the attacker. Sexual assault is mainly about power, acheived through an act of violence. This is why grandmothers and small children are frequent victims. They are the easiest to gain power over. There also are the so-called non-violent assaults such as child molestation, such as within a family. These are also acts of power but also for gratification of a physical need in addition to the power they have over the victim. It just so happens that these maladjusted attackers are generally unable to succeed normally with an adult so they go after innocence which makes it easier for them to succeed. These attackers are even more dangerous, to a degree, than violent rapists because they work to gain the trust of the victim then violate her/him as many times as they can before they get caught or move on to another victim. Then of course there are the true phsycopaths that find the excitement of totally random attacks. They choose a stranger, usually after watching and stalking them for a period of time, and go after them. The motivation for this may be something that has occurred only in the mind of the attacker, such as a look she gave or way she walked or just the way she combs her hair which set off the rage button in the attacker. If a woman makes herself an easy target to an attacker, whether intentionally or not, they stand a great chance of being a victim.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 11:03:26 AM EDT
You have to keep in mind the situation as well. She was at the gym and you would not expect someone at the gym or beach to be heavily clothed. If I acidently left my keys in the car while running into a 7-11 and my car got stolen I may be aggrivated with myself, but that in no way makes it right for the person to steal my car.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 12:10:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2001 12:21:25 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Garandman, she dresses that way because she knows I like it. Seriously, I've been to places like Rio where every single woman is hot and dresses like a female. Good god it was a frickin dream. However their rape statistics are far lower than the US because they don't stand for that crap and put those who do it in jail for life. In addition if you off some ahole for raping a family member you don't get prosecuted. Maybe if we quit trying to get rapists therapy and just offed the f..kers women would be able to dress it up without fear.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 12:48:39 PM EDT
As far as getting run over while crossing the street is concerned, in Singapore I believe (Could be some other Asian country) if you were to jaywalk and get hit by a car, even if you die your family would have to pay for the damage to the car that hit you.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 2:28:57 PM EDT
once a guy did a study on the possibility of rape being a part of instinct. it envoked lots of contraversy, but think about it. look at animals. they fight it the whole way. im not saying its right, my cousin was raped by some big brotha-man. its horrible, but perhaps a chick waliking around advertising like that, they could trigger somthing in a mentally disterbed man, or even worse, attract the attintion on a rapist.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 3:23:37 PM EDT
It is my observation that the women who cover up just a little bit more than some are the real keepers. They seem to have a little better self-esteem and have an idea as to the whole "action=reaction" gig.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 4:02:39 PM EDT
"Maybe if we quit trying to get rapists therapy and just offed the f..kers" Fine. Just so long as a DNA test is performed beforehand. No more standing behind a mirror and pointing to "Number 5" as the guilty one.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 4:25:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By platform389: "Maybe if we quit trying to get rapists therapy and just offed the f..kers" Fine. Just so long as a DNA test is performed beforehand. No more standing behind a mirror and pointing to "Number 5" as the guilty one.
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My fellow Marylanders should remember an innocent man on death row for 7 years because of the "mirror and point" set-up.
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 4:38:10 PM EDT
Chicks wear that stuff at my College's weight room all the time. IT DRIVES ME NUTS!!! [:P] Along with most of the other guys in there, due to the extremely high testosterone levels. Hehe, actually, thats how I met a few of my former "playmates of the opposite sex," not to mention the girl I'm dating now! [sex]
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 5:19:14 PM EDT
Rant mode on. Great. Just great. Let's keep women in long skirts with poke bonnets. Women shouldn't go out at night and only to "safe" places during the day. Maybe chadors would be better. Since men can't control themselves, women should hide. That sounds like the rule in a lot of muslim countries. To me that's backwards. I don't blame the victim if the car is stolen (even if the keys are left in it). Parts of the country, you can leave the keys in the car, the back door unlocked and a package on the door step. And I certainly don't blame the woman if some guy decides to show how powerful he is by trying to beat up on her. Gun Toter is right: Rape is a crime of violence and domination. Will you all be saying that he asked for it the next time an AR15.com member (male) is mugged? Maybe he was in the wrong neighborhood. Maybe he "wanted it." Maybe he was driving an expensive car when he was car-jacked. If you change the sex of the victim, very few of you will say that guys should only drive sensible cars (like a Ford instead of a Lexus) in nice neighborhoods in the day. I'll wager none of you would even suggest that he wanted to be the victim of a beating and theft (let alone the ever popular potenial for AIDS). By the way Garandman, what are you and your buddies wearing in the gym? Those cute little shorts and one of those bearly legal tank tops that shows half your chest (and bags out so we can see the other half)? Rant mode off. Frances
Link Posted: 3/19/2001 5:49:34 PM EDT
1) I actually feel intimidated by scantily clad women. (different strokes?) 2) I prefer women be allowed to make the choice, I couldn't imagine how lifeless a society of Muslim clad women would be. 3) I love spring, even if it does make me horny. 4) I wonder if anyone has done a study on rape and semi-nudity. Would be interesting. Maybe it could be as easy as comparing rape arrests in New York versus L.A..
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 12:34:51 AM EDT
Yes, hot sweaty women are a major turn on. :) Gun Toter got it right. I don't think rape is considered a sexual act, but instead, one of violence, control, and humiliation. How else could you account for the psychos out there raping elderly women? I mean, if I guy was hurting that bad to get laid, why not find a hooker? No, sex is not the issue. These guys enjoy hurting women. The worst part is even if the guy gets caught or you take revenge, you can never take back the horror experienced by your woman. Rape is the gift that keeps on giving. As far as women showing too much flesh, I don't know if that's the real issue. I think these days, men are acclimated to seeing half nekkid women. TV, the movies, at the mall -- the women who have it flaunt it. For 35 years women have been going around bra-less. And those people who grew up hanging at the beach will tell you it’s a turn on at the start of summer, but by the end of summer it doesn’t phase you nearly as much. You acclimate to it.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 1:23:46 AM EDT
Don't drive yourself to the point of insanity by trying to figure out why a woman does this or that or if she's asking for this or that. Example. and I've heard this one more than once. Standing and talking to big busted woman. And she says to me, so and so is such a jerk. He was talking to me and looking at my breast the whole time he was talking. And yet this woman is showing so much cleavage you can almost see her navel. Yes it maybe impossible to conceal those large mountains of flesh but then again you don't have to have them half way exposed either. Does she want people to look at them? Hell yes, that's why she's showing them off. Is she going to get mad when someone does look at them? Hell yes. Why? Because she's a woman. I've seen womem complain that men were checking out their ass, so what if they happened to be wearing a thong. Point is don't waste your time trying to figure it out. If they flaunt it, then go ahead and check it out if you please. Yes some of them are asking for it. But for God's sakes realize that the courts aren't going to see it that way even if she's naked with her legs spread, with a welcome sign out. A woman has the right to say no at anytime, and the courts will back that right, no matter what they may have done to lead you on right up till the point they decide to say no. Unless you want to be on Prozac the rest of you life give up trying to understand anything about womem. Hell, they don't understand themselves half the time!
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 1:51:18 AM EDT
They dress that way becuase they want to draw the attention of a rich handsome sugar daddy.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 2:10:01 AM EDT
Pictures! I wanna see pictures! [:)]
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 4:18:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Frances: By the way Garandman, what are you and your buddies wearing in the gym? Those cute little shorts and one of those bearly legal tank tops that shows half your chest (and bags out so we can see the other half)? Frances
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I wear shorts to the knees, loose T-shirts. I'm there to work and sweat, and really don't have a bod that is worth showing off. Even if I did, I wouldn't. The other people I know from work dress similarly. Can't speak for peoeple I don't know.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 5:36:33 AM EDT
OK, some thoughtful rsponses, which are appreciated. But here's a question (and I've heard the argument before) - Some say "rape is NOT about sex, its about violence and power." If that be true, then why doesn't a womans attacker just beat her up real bad, or kill her?? Why does he have to violate his victim sexually??? I contend there IS a sexual component to rape - IMO its the main component, else the rapist wouldn't rape, he'd simply murder. Thus, if a woman in her dress fuels his fire, is she not in part creating her own attack???
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 5:53:57 AM EDT
"Sex is evil. Women try to control me and affect me by causing me to have sexual thoughts. She should wear more clothing, she's affecting me, she's trying to control me." "I'll have to teach her a lesson." Yep, I think that were she to run into the wrong person, dressed inappropriately for the location/occasion, this might be the thought process.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 6:00:41 AM EDT
I`m thinking back to all your post about morality. Is this really about someones well being or are you try to push your high moral standards on others again? I have no problem looking at a naked, fine woman. I dont think of rape ever. I know rape happens but if you look at Germany where prostitution is legal you will find rape almost never happens. Christians sin because they have set there own rules and regularly break them. There is no shame in Gods creation. The human body can be a thing of beauty. Dont pervert it by setting rules.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 6:03:33 AM EDT
If you would post pictures of what you are talking about, then we could give a more informed answer. Weapons & scantily clad women, ahhhh life is good.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 6:44:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314: I`m thinking back to all your post about morality. Is this really about someones well being or are you try to push your high moral standards on others again?
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Every time a law is made by your state or Federal legislators, THEY are pushing THEIR "high moral standards" on you. If I were you, I'd be more worried about them than about me. My standards come from the Bible. I'm [b] well aware [/b] that it is WRONG for me to impose Biblical standards on people who haven't first surrendered their lives to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Its "cart before the horse " so to speak. So I don't try to do that, although I'm SURE people THINK I do. My position is this - let's take an open, honest look at causitive factors of social problems. If we find a cause to a social evil (in this case the possiblity of provocative dress exacerbating the incidence of rape) , THEN we can deal with it. The right way to "deal" with it is NOT to make a law, but to inform women of the serious nature of their choices in the area of dress.
Originally Posted By Rich314: I know rape happens but if you look at Germany where prostitution is legal you will find rape almost never happens.
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Don't confuse "reported" rape with the actual incidence of rape. A recent study of Scotland Yards crime reporting stats showed some CLEAR "cooking the books" when it came to reporting violent crimes. With their tourism industries at stake, I would surprised if Germany DIDN'T do teh same. Besides, when sex becomes profligate within a community, it all becomes a "he said / she said" thing, and PROVING rape becomes almost impossible. To use Germany as a comparison here is the SAME thing as using European stats to prove that gun control works. Europe is worlds different in culture than the US. Apples and oranges.
Originally Posted By Rich314: Christians sin because they have set there own rules and regularly break them. There is no shame in Gods creation. The human body can be a thing of beauty. Dont pervert it by setting rules.
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Trust me Rich, if [b] I [/b] were setting the rules, I would make looking at nekkid women MANDATORY. [:D] But as you pointed out, the human body is God's creation (and often QUITE beautiful at that.) As such, God is best able to set the standards of human behaviour that will work best for the human community. These aren't MY rules, they are HIS. But again, my primary thought here is NOT to force God's rules on anyone but myself. I am simply looking at this from a cause and effect POV and trying to see if we can learn anything. You look at a naked women and don't think rape. That's commendable. Many don't have the good sense you do. And if a woman is throwing sparks toward THEIR gas can,we as a society better STOP kidding ourselves, and tell women the truth.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 8:07:11 AM EDT
You and I may be turned on by a physically fit woman in work out gear all sweaty and hot and tan, with beads of sweat running down between her taut...oh, oh sorry, back to the point. I think there is a danger in applying self reference criteria to a rapist. Who the hell knows what trips a rapists trigger? Maybe he likes matronly school marms, or perhaps he has a thing for the uniforms at your local "Eats". Maybe he likes fat chicks in MuMu's. Maybe your wife's attire is just his cup of tea. Do these women "deserve it" also? I like to see women dress in a way to accentuate thier sexuality. It makes life a little more pleasant to see a beautiful woman. They don't "deserve" to get raped because of it.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 8:48:44 AM EDT
Years ago while working at a Mental hospital I verified some study results on just this topic. It was found that girls/women were not assulted at a higher rate when they dressed scantaly IE a thong at the beach or shorts and sports bras at the gym, it was just the opposite the rape rates were LOWER. The reason was determined to be, that the women that wore these outfits projected confidance, that is the one thing slime like rapists don't want to see. This is also the reason when you here of some girl being kidnaped and raped she is usualy dressed in school clothes, or a woman is wearing conservative busness atire. It is just the same as any assualt male or female, if you are showing confidance your chances of assault go way down. In date rape we found that actions, and alcohol were the largest factors, its a shame that some woman love agressive men, then are supprized when they become the target.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 9:21:22 AM EDT
You guys are trying to apply logic and rational thought to the motivations of rapists and murderers. These are the same people that get set off by Barney the dinosaur or some stupid crap. Rapists aren't motivated by "sexy" but by percieved "weakness." It is a power trip. The sexual act is one more way to assert dominance. The only soultion is eradications of these seriously fvcked up individuals.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 9:25:50 AM EDT
G-Man. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter and the kind approach of reproach. You have some good points but I dont agree with them. I look at other countries more like different cultures. What is WRONG here in America is a perfectly natural in 90% of other countries. Comparing gun control in Euro and here is something the NRA does,ie. Switzerland, England. The beaches in most of the world are full of topless and naked women, it`s only here in America were the nipple ist verbotten. The beaches here are full of women wearing less than their underwear. The problem lies in our interpertation of the Bible. I cant remember where God says to cover your body from the view of others. Abraham was drunk and naked outside of his tent. This story shows the lack of respect shown him by his children, it shows him acting like a drunken fool. The nakedness is not the point. Of course rape must never happen in countries that hide their women, like Islam based countries. Are they just not reported too. Rape is a very real problem, but I have to point the finger at the lowlife criminal. If you want to compare......Guns dont cause crime, people do............Womens body`s dont cause crime, other people do. Now, here`s a question. Do you like the Garand better than the M14?
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 9:53:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314: Now, here`s a question. Do you like the Garand better than the M14?
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Oddly, I suppose, YES ABSOLUTELY. The beauty of the Garand (much like that of a beautiful woman [:D] ) lies not so much in a point by point enumeration of functional traits (Okay, leave that ALONE with regard to women [:D] ) but in the intangibles. the Garand was designed by a man who asked NOTHING from his country in remuneration for the design that in large measure won the war. John Garand died nerly penniless, grateful only to have served his country. This rifle was BORN in greatness. No other US infantry weapon has the battle testing of the M1. No other weapon can turn the head of the men who carried it the way the M1 can. Yes, the M14 is technically superior. It is an inherently more accurate design. More accuracy can be wrung out of it by match shooters. It has a detachable mag. I know-I know. i don't care. The M1 makes me go "Yeah, baby." And thats something the M14 will never have.
Link Posted: 3/20/2001 9:54:50 AM EDT
Women dress for other women. It is like a car to a guy. They are in competition for your attention and establishing the order by asserting their superior wares. Rapists attack the weak (generally speaking), like any other criminal.
Link Posted: 3/21/2001 2:21:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Some say "rape is NOT about sex, its about violence and power." If that be true, then why doesn't a womans attacker just beat her up real bad, or kill her?? Why does he have to violate his victim sexually???
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Who knows. I'm sure there are guys out there who get drunk and lose their self-control. Maybe for them it's a crime of opportunity? And there are probably other guys who are more calculating, with the primary desire to hurt and humiliate. Rape affects a woman's sense of safety, her ability to trust men, and if she's married, can affect her relationship with her husband. i.e. "Why wasn't he there to protect me?" I may be wrong, but I thought I heard that when it's all said and done, the majority of serial rapists admit it has nothing to do with sex. They do it to punish and humiliate women. And for them, I say an axe to their dick and a push off a cliff.
Link Posted: 3/21/2001 2:36:38 AM EDT
[sleep]
Link Posted: 3/21/2001 10:51:14 AM EDT
after spend all my time reading this post, i have only one question "WHERE ARE THE SCANTILY CLAD WOMEN" ?[:p]
Link Posted: 3/21/2001 11:16:39 AM EDT
Gotta agree with most of ya. 1. No body deserves to have their physical liberties removed by violence, regardless of sex or intelligence level. 2. Having said that, woman SHOULD be allowed to wear whatever they want. But we, women and men, have to take responsibility for our actions. If our actions increase our risk of violence, we need to own up to it. It doesn't mean that we deserved it. But we've got to be smart enough to realize that bad things happen to good people, and take the proper precautions. Dressing more conservatively isn't going to guarantee that she will be safe, but it might decrease her risk. 3. Personally, I don't know why women do that in public. I imagine some of it might be something to do with self-esteem. "Geez, look at all of those men looking at me. I must be really hot." Then again, for some, they just might like to tease. And then for others, like me, I don't care what ya think, I'm dressing comfortably. I save the bare skin/scantily clad thing for the significant other in the bedroom. But that's just me.
Link Posted: 3/21/2001 11:18:03 AM EDT
Gotta agree with most of ya. 1. No body deserves to have their physical liberties removed by violence, regardless of sex or intelligence level. 2. Having said that, woman SHOULD be allowed to wear whatever they want. But we, women and men, have to take responsibility for our actions. If our actions increase our risk of violence, we need to own up to it. It doesn't mean that we deserved it. But we've got to be smart enough to realize that bad things happen to good people, and take the proper precautions. Dressing more conservatively isn't going to guarantee that she will be safe, but it might decrease her risk. 3. Personally, I don't know why women do that in public. I imagine some of it might be something to do with self-esteem. "Geez, look at all of those men looking at me. I must be really hot." Then again, for some, they just might like to tease. And then for others, like me, I don't care what ya think, I'm dressing comfortably. I save the bare skin/scantily clad thing for the significant other in the bedroom. But that's just me.
Link Posted: 3/21/2001 11:26:56 AM EDT
I stopped trying to figure out how women think when they started putting the hooks in the front!
Link Posted: 3/21/2001 11:54:46 AM EDT
I think that you have to look at it on a case by case basis. Saying that rape is a crime of violence, control, and humiliation probably is the best explination of most rapes, but not all. I think there is a difference between a serial rapist who does it to exert his power, and a horny sociopath who is going "to get laid tonight no matter what she wants." Regardles of their motives, both should be casterated(sp?). Kyle
Link Posted: 3/21/2001 12:03:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYshooter: after spend all my time reading this post, i have only one question "WHERE ARE THE SCANTILY CLAD WOMEN" ?[:p]
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WHAT????? You can't see them?!?!?!!?!?!!? Buaaaaaahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! NYShooter can't see them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Buaaaahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! [;)]
Link Posted: 3/21/2001 7:59:55 PM EDT
This is the kind of woman I would like to see in the frozen food isle at the local grocery store.(.)(.) Headlights At attention ,Almost makes me want to join the gym and workoff some of this fuel tank for the poopoo machine!!!!
Link Posted: 3/21/2001 8:46:59 PM EDT
after seing it so much thu scantey cladness becomes a turn off i just got out of high school last year and alot of the girls dressed scantly after about a couple a months you ended up beging to ignore em took the fun out of fantasying when there wansnt much to think about
Link Posted: 3/22/2001 4:30:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrax777: after seing it so much thu scantey cladness becomes a turn off i just got out of high school last year and alot of the girls dressed scantly after about a couple a months you ended up beging to ignore em took the fun out of fantasying when there wansnt much to think about
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Can we get a spell checker on these posts??? [:D] That aside, I agree. I always thought that sexy left a little to the imagination. For instance, a girl at the beach with the mid-thigh T-shirt was always sexier to me than the girl in the bikini. Something about "unwrapping the present" I guess... [:D]
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