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Posted: 1/5/2003 12:46:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Sounds like a real example of JBT's, that's for sure. How absolutely evil.
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Posted: 1/5/2003 12:46:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Velcome to Amerika. Papers plezzz
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Posted: 1/5/2003 12:55:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Also these guys have been playing there for years with expressed permission from the owner. Many kids and parents on the field when SWAT arrived.
The guy who posted this has a meeting with the Mayor of Coconut Creek tommarow Monday 1-6-02 at 2:00 pm. He'd appreciate any support he can get before the meeting. You can reach the mayor at: 954-973-6770 Ask for Mayor Jim Walden E-mail for him is at www.creekgov.net |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 12:59:55 PM EDT
[#4]
If it's private property with owner's permission for these people to be here what the heck are the cops doing? Is some other neighbor complaining repeatedly or something, or is it just some gungho cop that for some reason doesn't like paintball? Isn't that a violation of some kind, calling out SWAT for no reason? Someone should be fired over this if there isn't more to it.
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:00:15 PM EDT
[#5]
As long as these gallant officers went home safe that night, then thats enough for me.
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:00:41 PM EDT
[#6]
now, i finally understand why cops need rifles. if the ordinary mk I cops had been issued rifles, it might have saved the taxpayers the cost of a callout by the swat team. obviously, the mk I's were outgunned.
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:05:07 PM EDT
[#7]
This guy needs WRITTEN permission from the land owner to use the property. If he has that, barring some stupid local ordinance, he needs to allow this dumbass to arrest him. Then he should contact his lawyer and go for unlawful arrest. This could pay better than selling paintball equipment!
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:07:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Did you explain the kids all want to be SWAT when they grow up?
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:10:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: This guy needs WRITTEN permission from the land owner to use the property. If he has that, barring some stupid local ordinance, he needs to allow this dumbass to arrest him. Then he should contact his lawyer and go for unlawful arrest. This could pay better than selling paintball equipment! He does have written permission. Beyond that he got verbal expressed permission from the owners of adjoining properties. If you read the original post I think this all stems from a gung ho rookie cop. They left their previous field they were using last year at the request of the city (and without incident) and moved to private property. Seems said new officer followed tehm to the new location and sought to enforce his authority despite being on private property with the permission of the owner. I know Ryan (the owner) and he ain't looking to get arrested. He just want to continue about his business without issues. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:16:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: This guy needs WRITTEN permission from the land owner to use the property. If he has that, barring some stupid local ordinance, he needs to allow this dumbass to arrest him. Then he should contact his lawyer and go for unlawful arrest. This could pay better than selling paintball equipment! Oh, man, I'd pay to sit in on that court session! |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:18:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: He does have written permission. Beyond that he got verbal expressed permission from the owners of adjoining properties. If you read the original post I think this all stems from a gung ho rookie cop. Sounds like "Barney" needs to be encouraged to find another profession. I know Ryan (the owner) and he ain't looking to get arrested. He just want to continue about his business without issues. He certainly has the right to continue his business. I can't blame him for not wanting to get arrested but that would really be the icing on the cake toward legally righting this wrong. I hope he sticks it to them. This crap needs to be addressed. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:25:18 PM EDT
[#12]
SWAT TEAM -vs- Paintballers,
Paintball guns for each side, I’ll bet on the paintballers. I’ve played paintball with cops, they have a slow learning curve for the sport of paintball. SSD |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:27:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Let me get this straight... the rookie cop [i]knew[/i] they were only paintballers, but he called out the SWAT team anyway? What a waste of taxpayer dollars and inefficient use of law enforcement resources. He should be held accountable.
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:31:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Let me get this straight... the rookie cop [i]knew[/i] they were only paintballers, but he called out the SWAT team anyway? What a waste of taxpayer dollars and inefficient use of law enforcement resources. He should be held accountable. I'm surprised he didn't pull out his blaster and waste a couple of these paintball vermin. After all, he was in serious danger of being painted. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:34:03 PM EDT
[#15]
You got this over the internet?
I smell a hoax here... |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:36:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Is this America? Are we still free? What the hell are we fighting a war on terrorism for? I thought it was to remain free?
[size=3][b]What the frig is going on in this country?[/size=3][/b] Why didn't any of the other cops grab that officer by the ear and slap him one? |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:40:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Yeah, I could understand if a neighbor or passerby called the cops and said there was a terrorist training camp or something. That would have been an honest mistake. But this use of excessive force in inexcusable.
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:41:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: You got this over the internet? I smell a hoax here... Don't think so. SteyrAUG says he knows the owner. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:49:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Is this America? Are we still free? What the hell are we fighting a war on terrorism for? I thought it was to remain free? [size=3][b]What the frig is going on in this country?[/size=3][/b] This hasn't been a free country since 1861. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:49:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Then he is suppressing some information-like when they told the cop to take a hike yesterday somone lost their temper and said they would shoot him if he came back?
Cops overracting to a 911 call about "people with guns" and rolling to SWAT team only to find its people legally playing paintball on private property is, unfortunately, something that has happened enough to be beleveable. But they way he described it, where yesterday they had this argument with a cop over weather or not they could play paintball on this guys property. And then after this face to face meeting with a officer they comeback 24hr later with a SWAT team- for no reason- no I don't buy that. For one thing, that deployment costs money and takes officers off a beat. Now sometimes elected chief leos do strange shit because they think they are god-but usually they are too anal over their budget and schedualing to spare officers for one of their subordinants private grudges... Of course, said officer they argued with could have lied to his superiors about being threatened yesterday, just to be a prick... |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:50:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Is this America? Are we still free? What the hell are we fighting a war on terrorism for? I thought it was to remain free? [size=3][b]What the frig is going on in this country?[/size=3][/b] Why didn't any of the other cops grab that officer by the ear and slap him one? Didnt you see it? Didnt you see that blue wall? It seems to miraculously appear whenever a cop goofs up. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 1:53:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: Is this America? Are we still free? What the hell are we fighting a war on terrorism for? I thought it was to remain free? [size=3][b]What the frig is going on in this country?[/size=3][/b] This hasn't been a free country since 1861. Your raceism, sexism, and ageism is showing... Before 1861 you had to be white, male, christian, over 21, own land and have no debt to be "free". |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:06:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: You got this over the internet? I smell a hoax here... Don't think so. SteyrAUG says he knows the owner. Styer's also been known to stir shit for the pleasure of the stink too. Have you read the ENTIRE LINK, not just Styer's edited version. Searched for a valid news link? Come on people use that grey matter between your ears. [;)] |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:10:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: You got this over the internet? I smell a hoax here... No, I got this from Ryan Toemmes from the Florida Shooters Network where he is a member and is known to me personally. Had you checked the link you would find he posted specific details including the officers involved as well as his personal contact info including his phone number. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:12:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Campy is absolutely right. A clear cut case of the patrol officers being outgunned. Had they a carbine available this situation of calling out the special weapons team would not have been necessary.
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:12:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Then he is suppressing some information-like when they told the cop to take a hike yesterday somone lost their temper and said they would shoot him if he came back? Cops overracting to a 911 call about "people with guns" and rolling to SWAT team only to find its people legally playing paintball on private property is, unfortunately, something that has happened enough to be beleveable. But they way he described it, where yesterday they had this argument with a cop over weather or not they could play paintball on this guys property. And then after this face to face meeting with a officer they comeback 24hr later with a SWAT team- for no reason- no I don't buy that. For one thing, that deployment costs money and takes officers off a beat. Now sometimes elected chief leos do strange shit because they think they are god-but usually they are too anal over their budget and schedualing to spare officers for one of their subordinants private grudges... Of course, said officer they argued with could have lied to his superiors about being threatened yesterday, just to be a prick... Gee your just too damn smart for me...[rolleyes] |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:14:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You got this over the internet? I smell a hoax here... Don't think so. SteyrAUG says he knows the owner. Styer's also been known to stir shit for the pleasure of the stink too. Have you read the ENTIRE LINK, not just Styer's edited version. Searched for a valid news link? Come on people use that grey matter between your ears. [;)] Well this just happened TODAY. Sorry if NBC hasn't covered this yet to your satisfaction. But don't take MY word for it. Why don't you call the owner involved. His name is Ryan and he posted his phone number on the original link and I posted it on the original post here. I may post about controversial shit, but I don't just make shit up either. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:20:06 PM EDT
[#28]
What do you expect ?
( from the coconut creek website) [b]Welcome to Coconut Creek Coconut Creek, the butterfly capital of the world™, is located in South Florida about 20 minutes northwest of Fort Lauderdale. Incorporated in 1967, this beautiful city is widely recognized as a well planned, rapidly growing community that is considered one of the leading cities in Broward County and South Florida. Environmentally- oriented, the City pursues a friendly, progressive approach to creating a liveable suburban lifestyle for it's residents and businesses. The city is 11.3 square miles with 45,517 residents. Housing is primarily single family homes, condominiums and townhouses within professionally landscaped communities.[/b] [slap] |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:28:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Let me get this straight....This all happened in the same county that was nationally recognized for having a large part of the population that was too stupid to vote, correct?
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:28:34 PM EDT
[#30]
I may post about controversial shit, but I don't just make shit up either. I never said that you make things up. I said that......[i]"Steyr's been known to stir shit for the pleasure of the stink"[/i] I don't doubt that you may know someone involved in this. I do question the childish responses of some to a second hand account of a one sided accusation. Just as I question the validity of the one sided account of the occurrence. But then the cop bashers only need an excuse to begin the choir and you know it. However it's only my opinion and as most opinions its value is limited to me.[;)] |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:40:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Just show a refrence to the incident from a third party, thats all. The media, another board member who was there, another website that refers to it(but not just repeats the same accusation)
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:43:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Note to self: if you ever go Paintballing, bring real AR15s to keep near by to deal with any real criminals that threaten you. Get everybody to do the same thing.
There's only one way this sort of thing is going to go away, that's to start [b]FIGHTING BACK![/b] |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:47:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Just show a refrence to the incident from a third party, thats all. The media, another board member who was there, another website that refers to it(but not just repeats the same accusation) Why don't you just call the guy who left his phone number instead of arguing with a 3rd party? Is it really that difficult? Ryan Toemmes 954-575-5039 |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 2:54:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Note to self: if you ever go Paintballing, bring real AR15s to keep near by to deal with any real criminals that threaten you. Get everybody to do the same thing. There's only one way this sort of thing is going to go away, that's to start [b]FIGHTING BACK![/b] ????[>:/] Oh I get. Start a fire fight with the police. Well [b]PLEASE[/b] feel free. {Animal Mother voice on} "You talk the talk, can you walk the walk"{Animal Mother voice off} |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:00:29 PM EDT
[#35]
What was the nature of the original complaint the first officers rsponded to? Disturbing the peace? Assualt? Vandalism? And who is the informant?
What are the State Laws, County Ordinances, and City Municipal codes dealing with possession and use of Paint Ball guns? I'll reserve judgement until those questions are answered. PS.. Where did people ever get the idea that laws dont apply on "private property?" |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:00:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Just show a refrence to the incident from a third party, thats all. The media, another board member who was there, another website that refers to it(but not just repeats the same accusation) Well gee lest see... I know the OWNER involved personally and posted his contact information. This JUST happened and surprisingly the media didn't run right out and cover it in a effort to protect his rights. I didn't see the ACLU there either. So what third party verification would you like? Should I track down one of the little kiddies that were playing today? I don't know any of them but I'm sure they would love to come on a gunboard and post verification of the incident. Or perhaps one of the officers on scene. Again, I don't know any of them personally but I'm sure if I asked really nice they would come here and be totally candid and honest about the events of today. Or maybe space aliens just happened to be over Broward County today and imaged the entire incident. I will talk to the people from Alpha Centura IV and see if they would be willing to post still images of todays obervations. Here's the situation folks, I only know the guy it happened to. I only know what he told me and I posted what he posted. I believe him not m=to make up shit like this. He posted it to get HELP because this is the situation he is in. You don't make up a SWAT responce and seek assistance and support on the internet BEFORE meeting with the Mayor. And IF you do, you don't post your phone number, he did. So you can believe it, not believe it, help or not help. I only posted teh information because this guy is gonna need a LOT of help. If or when there is media coverage of this event I will post it. You can also pose questions to Ryan directly by joining the FSN board on the above thread. He is a longtime member there. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:03:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: I may post about controversial shit, but I don't just make shit up either. I never said that you make things up. I said that......[i]"Steyr's been known to stir shit for the pleasure of the stink"[/i] I don't doubt that you may know someone involved in this. I do question the childish responses of some to a second hand account of a one sided accusation. Just as I question the validity of the one sided account of the occurrence. But then the cop bashers only need an excuse to begin the choir and you know it. However it's only my opinion and as most opinions its value is limited to me.[;)] I think you know me well enough that I am far from a cop basher and usually don't particiapte in the cop bashing threads. This isn't about JBTs, although the owner is understandably upset with them at the moment, it is about a guy who is gonna need a bit of help. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:04:32 PM EDT
[#38]
SGB, I consider myself to be a fair person, and I'm not a cop basher. I read the whole link SteyrAUG posted. The references to Nazis and Mayor Hitler were uncalled for IMHO, but there doesn't seem to be any dispute about what basically happened...
1) They were paintballers, a bunch of kids playing with toys, not armed criminals. 2) The rookie cop [i]knew[/i] they were kids playing with paintball guns, and still deployed the SWAT team. BTW, who makes the call to get the SWAT team out, the line officer, the supervisor on duty, the police chief, or ??? 3) The paintballers were playing on private property with the property owner's consent. To me it appears that the rookie cop didn't like the fact that the paintballers didn't do what he wanted them to do, and took it personally, calling out the SWAT team to "teach them a lesson." Does that seem plausible to you? I also understand that Ryan sells and rents paintball equipment, so he has a vested interest in having a place to play. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:07:56 PM EDT
[#39]
To me it appears that the rookie cop didn't like the fact that the paintballers didn't do what he wanted them to do, and took it personally, calling out the SWAT team to "teach them a lesson." Does that seem plausible to you? Yeah it does-to a extent. But over two days? And how does a rookie cop get authority to call out a SWAT team? |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:08:18 PM EDT
[#40]
interesting...
what was their PC for coming on the private property in the first place? |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:13:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: interesting... what was their PC for coming on the private property in the first place? Probubly a violation of some local law. Like discharging a firearm that launches a projectile by force of compressed air in city limits. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:13:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Your raceism, sexism, and ageism is showing... Before 1861 you had to be white, male, christian, over 21, own land and have no debt to be "free". The biggest slave owner in Louisian history was a black woman. There was never any requirement of christianity for one to be free, most of the founders were transcendentalists. 21? There were plenty of landowners who were younger than that and the age of consent was usually 15-16 years of age. Male in order to be free? So all women were slaves? Have we been reading the "Gor" series a bit too much? And those who were not landed? Having no deed to land did not mean you were somehow not free. There were plenty of people who went west as you may recall and were quite free to do so. Too bad we aren't that way now. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:16:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: What was the nature of the original complaint the first officers rsponded to? Disturbing the peace? Assualt? Vandalism? And who is the informant? What are the State Laws, County Ordinances, and City Municipal codes dealing with possession and use of Paint Ball guns? I'll reserve judgement until those questions are answered. PS.. Where did people ever get the idea that laws dont apply on "private property?" The Florida laws pertaining to paintball guns are basically it is legal unless engaged in "criminal mischief", "vandalism" or a "public nusance." I don't know the nature of the original complaint or the informant. Last year they played on county property (open field far away from residences) without incident. Due to the acts of kids at night (drinking, drugs, etc.) being a nusance everyone (including paintballers) got the boot. They secured private property to play on and it would "seem" a officer from the original complaint found where they moved to and is continuing to harrass them. But that is just my impression, not a known fact. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:20:21 PM EDT
[#44]
SGB, I consider myself to be a fair person, and I'm not a cop basher. I read the whole link SteyrAUG posted. The references to Nazis and Mayor Hitler were uncalled for IMHO, but [red]there doesn't seem to be any dispute about what basically happened[/red]... True, but we've only heard one side. Rarely does the accuser dispute him/herself. 1) They were paintballers, a bunch of kids playing with toys, not armed criminals. 2) The rookie cop knew they were kids playing with paintball guns, and still deployed the SWAT team. BTW, who makes the call to get the SWAT team out, the line officer, the supervisor on duty, the police chief, or ??? 3) The paintballers were playing on private property with the property owner's consent. And did he maybe leave anything out of the story or embellish it to support his cause in any way? I don't know and at this point I would venture that most here don't know either. To me it appears that the rookie cop didn't like the fact that the paintballers didn't do what he wanted them to do, and took it personally, calling out the SWAT team to "teach them a lesson." Does that seem plausible to you? Plausible? Yes Factual? Not proven at this time. If these allegation prove true they need to be addressed. If they prove false the cop bashers won't have to wait long for another opportunity to assemble the choir. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:25:54 PM EDT
[#45]
I have emailed Ryan and invited him here to answer your questions directly.
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:32:52 PM EDT
[#46]
A rookie cop has the authority to activate SWAT?
Now that's funny.[rofl2] |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:36:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: ????[>:/] Oh I get. Start a fire fight with the police. Well [b]PLEASE[/b] feel free. {Animal Mother voice on} "You talk the talk, can you walk the walk"{Animal Mother voice off} You never START a fire fight with the police. You let them fire first and then you respond with all necessary force. Always let the other guy make the first mistake. And yeah if I were in that situation I [b]would[/b] do it (provided I have backup). I notice that you like to bitch but never make any suggestions on how to solve a situation. What would you do in that situation? Submit and surrender like feeble sheep? Yeah, that's what I bet you'd do. The JBTs will own people like you for life. BTW, your animated pic is very annoying. |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:47:17 PM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By kind of: You never START a fire fight with the police. You let them fire first and then you respond with all necessary force. Always let the other guy make the first mistake. So.......you have experience in this? And yeah if I were in that situation I [b]would[/b] do it (provided I have backup). Ah, only in a crowd kinda thing. I understand. I notice that you like to bitch but never make any suggestions on how to solve a situation. What would you do in that situation? Submit and surrender like feeble sheep? Yeah, that's what I bet you'd do. The JBTs will own people like you for life. [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/laugh.gif[/img]OH MY GOD IF YOU ONLY KNEW..........Ok Just FYI, I put my time in as what you lovingly refer to as a JBT.[;)] Thank you very much. PS......I think paint ball sucks, but then that's only me.[:D] BTW, your animated pic is very annoying. Glad you like it. [8D] |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 3:59:45 PM EDT
[#49]
I see now that there are some that will cower when the JBT's come in guns blazing, and then there are some that will be the JBT's.
A legal activity on private property, with the owners permission=SWAT(JBT) intervention. go figure... |
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Posted: 1/5/2003 4:04:57 PM EDT
[#50]
this place should be monitored by highly trained unarmed security guards..
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