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Posted: 9/1/2004 7:10:29 PM EST

----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Pansier
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: Fw: SURVEILLANCE BY DOD (FORWARD TO EVERYONE)




Subject: RE: SURVEILLANCE BY DOD (FORWARD TO EVERYONE)


How did you get so dam* lucky? Is that NeoTrace like in Neo-Con?

Pretty soon, they will be able to plant links it in your computer, and then say you were viewing kitty porn, or you are some type of subversive domestic terrorist because you were looking at a terrorist website, which they placed on your hard drive unbeknownst to you. The possibilities are unlimited, especially if they wanted to incarcerate dissenters.

Of course fascist corporations like Microsoft deliberately leave back doors open on their software.

You are guilty if they say you're guilty.

PS: Sorry I have been having computer problems, so if you are expecting an answer, please be patient. I'm trying! Your emails are very important to me. Please feel free to resend if you think you have been overlooked.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: biker
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 6:32 PM
To: Sallie
Subject: SURVEILLANCE BY DOD(FORWARD TO EVERYONE)
Importance: High


Sallie,


Several weeks ago I found I had been checked by someone running an active scan on my confuser. When I traced the isp my tracer shows the signal originating from the DOD Network Information Ceenter, 7990 Science Applications Center, Vienna, Virginia.
A copy of the trace is below the article.

biker


Is The Pentagon Keeping Tabs on Political Websites?
Posted Aug 29, 2004 08:56 AM PST
Here's what happened: KenoshaOnline.net was forced to disable their anonymous posting forum last Sunday following several bombs of "comments" advertising links to Web sites featuring incest, bestiality, underage sex, and just about any other dirty and/or illegal thing you could think of. "We suffered about 20 attacks over a two month period," said John Norquist, administrator for KenoshaOnline. "And each attack resulted in about 10 to 15 different articles ... so, you do the math, that's about three hundred attacks, total." And, now, the punchline: according to the IP address the comments left behind, the computer generating the porn bombs is sitting in Room BF655A of the Pentagon in Washington D.C., property of the United States Department of Defense.
When this website was known as "Rancho Runnamukka" I used to get DOSed from the eoe6 subnet in the White House.

NeoTrace Version 3.25 Trace Results
Target: 11.82.227.148
Date: 5/19/2004 (Wednesday), 2:32:10 PM
Nodes: 4

Node Data
Node Net Reg IP Address Location Node Name
1 - - 209.240.12.83 40.094N, 80.922W noahsarc
2 1 - 209.240.0.205 39.739N, 81.094W
3 2 1 209.240.0.254 39.739N, 81.094W gigaether5-0-0.stclrsvloh.edge.1st.net
4 3 - 11.82.227.148 WASHINGTON D.C.

Packet Data
Node High Low Avg Tot Lost
1 0 0 0 1 0
2 545 545 545 1 0
3 213 213 213 1 0
4 ---- ---- ---- 2 2

Network Data
Network id#: 1
FIRST USA Inc. FIRST-BLK-1 (NET-209-240-0-0-1)
209.240.0.0 - 209.240.31.255
FIRST USA Inc. FUSA-STCLAN-240-0 (NET-209-240-0-0-2)
209.240.0.0 - 209.240.0.255

Network id#: 2
FIRST USA Inc. FIRST-BLK-1 (NET-209-240-0-0-1)
209.240.0.0 - 209.240.31.255
FIRST USA Inc. FUSA-STCLAN-240-0 (NET-209-240-0-0-2)
209.240.0.0 - 209.240.0.255

Network id#: 3

OrgName: DoD Network Information Center
OrgID: DNIC
Address: 7990 Science Applications Ct
Address: M/S CV 50
City: Vienna
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 22183-7000
Country: US

Registrant Data
Registrant id#: 1
See Registrant Pane for registrant contact information.

_____
NeoTrace Copyright ©1997-2001 NeoWorx Inc
40aba817
ad c4
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:12:20 PM EST
Foil hat ON!
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:15:08 PM EST
Of course the DOD is monitoring web sites.. how do you think they're catching faggots like RebelGray?

There's a difference between me checking out al-Jazeera because I'm curious, and posting on some militant web site about how to kill US troops.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:17:18 PM EST
hhhm. my traces take them back to Los Alamos.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:20:50 PM EST
Looks like a legit trace, complete with ARIN lookup.
I would imagine that it could be part of the infamous "echelon" system, although I dont imagine the CIA and NSA are looking to set up the average folks.

It isnt against the law to read and look at things that offend people...let the governement look inside my machine all they like...they will only find the truth.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:36:54 PM EST
Not bloody likely. Sorry man.

The government can certainly track what you do online, if you've attracted their attention. They aren't going to waste their time just trolling randomly; any agency only has so many resources, and right now it's a safe bet to say that they are stretched thin looking at known threats.

There are hundreds of millions of people using the internet, and many, many websites, message boards, and email addresses. Each of those are accessed hundreds, thousands, or sometimes millions of times each day. It's impossible to track some of them or put some of them through a filter, much less do that with all of them. Fizzasist will back The Neutral Observer up on this one if he reads this thread; it's a safe bet he knows what the limits of computing are. Echelon or whatever it's called is a myth.

It's also fairly easy to completely hide your identity online if you know what you're doing. There are reasons terrorists use the internet for relatively secure communications. It's a big mess and it's easy to hide things in. For every item of interest a government agency finds on the internet, it misses many others. The only ones they find are the dumb ones, usually, barring some dumb luck.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:44:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:45:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:
...any agency only has so many resources, and right now it's a safe bet to say that they are stretched thin looking at known threats.



Cha-Ching.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:49:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:51:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
Room BF655A

Now that's an accurate trace ... I wonder if they can trace my IP address back to which bedroom I'm in ... wonder how hard it would be to spoof an IP address .... nahh, couldn't be done (in less than two seconds).



I prefer to cantenna. From my location I got a bevy of wireless lans. My NIC lets me manually change my MAC so I am truly a ghost in the machine.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:52:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:53:41 PM EST
I'm betting hi-jacked computer. Many of the Democratic faithful work in the gov't.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:54:46 PM EST
The Neutral Observer went for a walk one night through a neighborhood, scanning for wireless signals. Just out of curiosity, you understand, as He didn't actually connect to them.

The Neutral Observer found 4 secure networks (still easy to crack given enough traffic) and over 20 unsecured networks. This was in a lower-middle class subdivision, by the way, so apparently wireless is becoming quite popular and widespread.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:59:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:00:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:02:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:
The Neutral Observer went for a walk one night through a neighborhood, scanning for wireless signals. Just out of curiosity, you understand, as He didn't actually connect to them.

The Neutral Observer found 4 secure networks (still easy to crack given enough traffic) and over 20 unsecured networks. This was in a lower-middle class subdivision, by the way, so apparently wireless is becoming quite popular and widespread.



I get a little more where I am at. But in my EVALUATIONS I find most people create their WEP hash from the SSID (those that are secured). Ain't wireless wonderful...
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:04:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:11:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:

PS: When you get an email that says forward this to everyone you know ... it's a prank



When I get an e-mail that's been forwarded I click "Delete".
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:19:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:28:16 PM EST
"Kitty porn"? That sounds even sicker than Kiddy porn.

Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:35:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
You people THINK this is merely a prank but little do you know. IT'S TRUE!!! I have evidence to back it up!!!

Have you ever noticed that whenever BUCC-guy posts, there's an eye looking around your computer???

Ho-ho-ho, my friends - that's a blatant violation of my privacy!



They'll NEVER get MY steak sauce recipe !!!

Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:45:53 PM EST
I sold the local $%* branch, 4 AMD 3500, socket 939 machines last week. The agent that got them said the "test" case she's got took 2 hours to open on last years machine, 40 minutes on one of these. They are coming, and they will be able to handle the information generated. Those are simple destop machines.

This month the budget must be spent or lost. WHOO HOO

Bankin' Like a NYC OT cop
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 9:03:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
I do know for a fact that all email and more than likely even posts here are scanned by DSC100 using filters that key on certain words. Like "Kill the President".

I was told this story from a fellow IT professor. One of his students was taken out of class by the Secret Service and "interviewed" over the contents of an email he had sent another student in a different state. The email stated that the kid wanted to kill the President who happened to be on his way to speak in the city the college was located. I don't know the full details of the email but it was enough to look serious and the SS grabbed the kid.

So how did the Secret Service come to have the email? Neither the kid or his friend sent it to them. The professor knew his IT staff and the their university wasn't running a scanner - he got in contact with the far end university's IT staff and they weren't either ... meaning the the .gov was running one in the middle.

Carnivore is alive and well and monitoring everything you send. EVERYTHING.

Hi guys



It could have also been the case that the recipient (or an unintended recipient) reported the email, or maybe they had a pre-exisiting interest in either one of the two. Any kid who says that might have done other things worth watching. While a carnivore-type system is technically possible (easy, actually) to implement on any scale, it would be resource intensive even for a small scale. It would take an enormous amount of computing power to simply monitor a site the size of AR-15.com; it could be done, but is the potential payoff worth the effort? Remember, they'd be talking about a cluster to get things done in any reasonable amount of time. It's more a matter of hardware limitations and economics than anything else.

Certainly they have methods of monitoring traffic and harvesting posts off sites they have interest in, but the expense of doing so increases significantly as the amount of traffic increases. The Neutral Observer thinks that a hardware setup required to do this sort of thing is probably beyond the capabilities of a lot of DOJ agencies, and the ones they do have probably have priority missions monitoring known terrorist traffic.

Everything takes up CPU cycles/resources. Harvesting the traffic, extracting text, analyzing or organizing text; multiply it by the amount of traffic, which is generally large for anything internet-related. Parallelization is a huge area of research right now as people try to get around those limitations; this sort of problem seems on the face of it like it would not be too difficult to break into peices, because of the nature of the traffic, but there is only so much you can do with the raw numbers being what they are.

A lot of the big simulations (game theory, molecular dynamics) take a significant time to run, even up to a week for one shot. Granted, a lot of these are a little harder to break into peices, but the guys at some of the national labs have been running these things on their state of the art clusters, which have umpteen hundred nodes, and it still takes days to run one simulation.

Probable on a small scale, possible on a larger scale, but still a finite capability. The big Echelon/Carnivore rumor has been blown a bit out of proportion on the internet.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 9:25:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
Room BF655A

Now that's an accurate trace ... I wonder if they can trace my IP address back to which bedroom I'm in ... wonder how hard it would be to spoof an IP address .... nahh, couldn't be done (in less than two seconds).



[Inspector Clouseau] Ah hah! We know he's in a bedroom now! But which one? Hmmmm. *scratches chin* [/Inspector Clouseau]

Better watch your six Paul! Loose lips sink ships.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 10:15:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 10:16:22 PM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 2:50:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 2:51:58 AM EST by taptap]
The Neutral Observer,

The technology required to Data Mine an entire web site (regardless of traffic volume), build and catalog profiles of its users, and in turn monitor their activities is out there. You can buy it off the shelf from any number of vendors – most of which already have .GOV contracts.

Checkout the Data Mining Group http://www.dmg.org/
[when reading product descriptions replace the words “Business” with “Law Enforcement”, and “Customer” with “Target”


As you stated the best we can hope for is that technology is centrally located, rigidly controlled, and only used on specific target groups. However, Like all technology its only a matter of time before it filters down.

The day will come when after visiting an ‘anti government’ website that your local PD does a drive by – “just to make sure everything’s OK”
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 3:12:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
I suppose you missed the part where it said that this was a prank right?

First off if you haven't noticed the DoD has been monitoring the Internet for 30 years and one day. Secondly they wouldn't be so 1am3 to get busted by a rank turd like the person writing the letter. Third the carnavore system - now called DCS100 - doesn't and can't run on your computer - you computer frankly lacks the power for what is needed.

Science is fundamental.

PS: When you get an email that says forward this to everyone you know ... it's a prank



+1

Paul is dead-on, as usual.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 12:23:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By taptap:
The Neutral Observer,

The technology required to Data Mine an entire web site (regardless of traffic volume), build and catalog profiles of its users, and in turn monitor their activities is out there. You can buy it off the shelf from any number of vendors – most of which already have .GOV contracts.

Checkout the Data Mining Group http://www.dmg.org/
[when reading product descriptions replace the words “Business” with “Law Enforcement”, and “Customer” with “Target”


As you stated the best we can hope for is that technology is centrally located, rigidly controlled, and only used on specific target groups. However, Like all technology its only a matter of time before it filters down.

The day will come when after visiting an ‘anti government’ website that your local PD does a drive by – “just to make sure everything’s OK”



"A web site" is the key phrase. No doubt the technology is out there. Given a few weeks, any competant person could implement it himself. The Neutral Observer sometimes uses a script to browse forums. But the problem comes in when the scale is considered. Sure, it's simple to do for a website with 400 users. But how about a website with 40, 000 users? It takes a bit more in the way of hardware to do that quickly than it would for a site with 400 users.

Consider the entire internet, or a decent-sized subnetwork. It quickly becomes impossible to monitor that amount of traffic. Run the numbers. CPU cycles per operation, operation per peice of data, peices of data per user, and the total number of users. The hardware limitations and expense of hardware mandate that this technology be centralized and rigidly controlled. Computers are expensive, resulting in a finite amount of them and a finite amount of computer time, which must be used to the greatest effect.

Thus, they have to have known targets to look at. They can't just indiscriminately troll for targets on random websites and look at every email that flies through the ether. Common sense will tell you that the FBI is probably monitoring www.islamicrevolution.com/forums/killinginnocentamericans/
But the resources to monitor every single anti-American website and forum on the internet just aren't there, much less to troll gun forums or anything else looking for random targets.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 12:40:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
Carnivore is alive and well and monitoring everything you send. EVERYTHING.

Hi guys



You betcha! and RAF Menwith Hill here in the UK is were all the NSA types have their 'den' to watch the US from outside Constitutional jurisdiction…


"RAF Menwith Hill is an intelligence-gathering base operated by the US National Security Agency (NSA), located near the town of Harrogate, UK. Founded in the 1950's by British Royal Air Force (RAF) to monitor High Frequency radio communications, the base was handed over by NSA in 1966 has grown to become the worlds biggest spy base outside the US. Nominally a base of RAF, only physical security and UK liaison functions are carried out by MOD personnel, the vast majority of the staff being British GCHQ and American NSA employees as well as U.S. military personnel. The base is known as the NSA field station F83.

The base is highly recognisable by its several dozen radomes ('Golf Balls'), each containing a satellite dish. Many of these are used for signals interception from communications satellites and are commonly thought to be part of the ECHELON system. Other parts of the site are thought to be used by the Space Based Infrared System employed by the US National Missile Defence programme. The latter use of the base, alongside the joint US/UK radar station at Fylingdales was particularly controversial."


BTW… Hi Guys!

I'm on a 'watch list' too! (as is anybody who is connected to the military or Gov)

ANdy
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