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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 8/8/2002 10:45:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2002 10:48:11 AM EST by NYPatriot]
But wait... I thought they only objected to deadly bullet spraying "assault weapons" and easily concealed "junk handguns"??? Reasonable restrictions my ass! Wake up sheeple. Their ultimate goal is [b]Complete disarmament[/b] of the civilian population! [url]www.freep.com/voices/columnists/eguns8_20020808.htm[/url] [b]LOCAL COMMENT: Why wait to tackle gun violence? Germany's timely action should serve as example for America[/b] August 8, 2002 BY DONNA DEES-THOMASES AND CAROLYNNE JARVIS So far this year, 10 Detroit-area children were killed by guns. How can we, as a community and a state, stop this rising tide of gun violence? Other communities that have stood at the dangerous intersection of young people and guns provide a good lesson. The similarities between school shootings in Littleton, Colo., and Erfurt, Germany, are striking -- troubled kids, access to guns and unbearable tragedy. Even more striking: the difference between the two countries' responses. In Littleton, two teenagers gunned down 13 schoolmates and teachers before killing themselves. The law prohibited the underage Columbine High School killers from owning their private arsenal, including a semiautomatic weapon. But the consistent failure of state legislatures or the federal government to implement strong enforcement mechanisms -- like universal background checks, the licensing of gun owners and firearm registration -- made it easy for them to get their guns. All it took was a friend to pick up the murder weapons at a local gun show -- a friend who later testified that she never would have bought the guns if she had been subject to a background check. In the Erfurt case, Germany's gun laws were also insufficient to keep firearms out of the hands of a disturbed youth. Despite a history of troubles at school, a 17-year-old was legally authorized to own the 9mm handgun and pump-action rifle that he used to kill 17 people, including students, teachers, a policeman and himself. He obtained a German firearms license with relative ease -- no psychological examination required. But while nothing has happened three years after the Columbine High killings, seven weeks after the Erfurt shooting, the German parliament passed legislation that tightens the rules on gun ownership. The new laws don't preclude private ownership of guns, they just include common-sense measures: raising the age of ownership for firearms from 18 to 21; requiring that people under 25 seeking to purchase a gun pass a psychological examination; and [b]banning pump-action guns.[/b] This measured response to a horrifying crime is exactly what the United States failed to do in Columbine's wake. Yes, early on, the U.S. Senate passed legislation that would close the infamous gun-show loophole and require background checks for all gun sales at these events. But that modest effort withered in the House. More recently, Senate leaders, including John McCain, R-Ariz., have introduced new legislation to close the loophole, but it's likely that these bills will suffer the same fate. Meanwhile, gun shows have become a reliable source of weapons used in crime and terrorism. In Michigan, Ali Boumelhem, linked to the terrorist organization Hezbollah, was convicted Sept. 10 of conspiring to smuggle guns and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents testified they saw him buying weapons at three gun shows. At the state level, stronger gun legislation is caught in a tug-of-war between widespread public support and gun industry opposition. While states such as California and Illinois have imposed tougher gun laws and defeated efforts to loosen gun regulation, the majority have done little. Even Colorado, home to the Columbine tragedy, failed to act -- until outraged voters tightened gun-show regulations by referendum. Some Michigan legislators, spurred by a well-funded gun industry lobby, plan to introduce legislation in the lame-duck session after the November elections that would allow concealed weapons in theaters, sports arenas and other public venues where they are currently banned. At the same time, they are blocking the introduction of legislation that would enable prosecution of illegal gun traffickers by mandating the tracing of all crime guns to identify when and where they crossed from the legal to the illegal market. The daily litany of gun violence kills nearly 30,000 Americans, including 1,200 Michigan citizens, each year and seriously injure at least three times that many. The incredible ease with which guns are available helped give the United States the highest rate of gun violence in any developed country in the world. Our attitude towards guns and gun violence is shockingly casual. And as a nation, we are continuing to pay the price. Nearly 90 Americans will die in our neighborhoods from gun violence, including suicides, today. And tomorrow, and the day after that. If we want to bring a stop to the daily drumbeat of gun violence, we must learn from the quick German response.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 10:49:12 AM EST
They want to learn from the death camps?
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 10:56:13 AM EST
The part that gets me is they say people should be subjected to a "psychological examination" if they are under 25 years old and want to own a gun. Obviously implying that anyone who wants to buy a gun is mentally unstable. I find that more insulting than saying we should ban pump-guns.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 11:12:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: Meanwhile, gun shows have become a reliable source of weapons used in crime and terrorism. In Michigan, Ali Boumelhem, linked to the terrorist organization Hezbollah, was convicted Sept. 10 of conspiring to smuggle guns and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents testified they saw him buying weapons at three gun shows.
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[b]WTF???!?@?@?!?[/b] A gun show in Lebanon? Like we have any control over that? How does that make US gun shows a risk? What a couple of dumb bitches.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 11:15:26 AM EST
When I talk with people at work, or wherever, and they know very little about guns, they freak out when I tell them I have ONE, then they really freak out when they hear I have more than one, and they imply that I am crazy, psycho, need help, etc. Then they argue with me stating that since they are not registered and I don't have a permit, that I am breaking the law, etc., etc. (you can't register them in Texas and don;t need a permit except for CCWs!) For people who know very little about guns, except for what they see in the movies, they need to learn the facts before jumping to conclusions abd believing what they see on TV. Then when they hear I have a "military-style" firearm, they really go nuts! I hate to break it to them, but many firearms and accessories used by the military (past/present), were developed by and for civilians first... Then they try to argue about full-auto and silenced weapons... they really freak out when they finally believe that they are legal to own in Texas.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 11:23:37 AM EST
hmm, next is lever guns then bolt guns...i see a trend. yeah some people are horrified when they find out i own guns, and they become even more when they find out i started shooting them at 5 years old and got my own at 12. i am pure encarnate evil in some peoples eyes, just wait till im the one that has to save them!
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 11:23:54 AM EST
Whats crazy is they assume universal background checks, the licensing of gun owners, and firearm registration are affective enforcement tools simply because of the friends testimony "that she never would have bought the guns if she had been subject to a background check". Last I knew this "friend" wasn't charged for doing a straw purchase even after a co-worker was prosecuted for selling them a handgun. I suspect she traded public statements for amnesty. Sheeple actually believe this junk science and disinformation be spewed by Anti-Second Amendment zealots. Shok
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 11:24:32 AM EST
The gunshow was stateside and not in Lebanon. Still, it is moronic to buy expensive semi-auto firearms in the U.S., get backgrounded, and ship them when you can easily obtain FA weapons in the third world hole of your choice. Equivalent to ordering donuts from out of state when you live next to a bakery.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 11:29:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 11:42:59 AM EST
The article is written by two women. It is clear they are suffering from PENIS ENVY. Bill
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 11:57:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 12:03:55 PM EST
Meanwhile, gun shows have become a reliable source of weapons used in crime and terrorism. In Michigan, Ali Boumelhem, linked to the terrorist organization Hezbollah, was convicted Sept. 10 of conspiring to smuggle guns and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents testified they saw him buying weapons at three gun shows.
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One example is enough to make this conclusion, unequivocally?
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 12:06:14 PM EST
It is illegal to kill someone so why do these idiots believe a potential criminal will obey one law if not the other? I agree, the sheeple are asleep in the calm liberal meadow.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 12:08:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 1:15:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 1:30:22 PM EST
The 30,000 killed each year number...is this correct? It sounds like a bs number. [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 1:34:58 PM EST
I highly doubt my ancient .22 pump action is a threat to anybody. It's barely a threat to squirrels, and only if I'm having a really really good day. Although I'm sure the .22 feels nice sitting next to the AR-180B that's there to prevent anybody from taking the pump .22.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 1:41:18 PM EST
I'm laughing cause DONNA DEES-THOMASES is one of the 2 women who wrote that story. Wasn't she also the one who tried to make the MMM a grass roots org and tried to get tax-free status? What happened? It went bust. They had to downside, laying off people, closing offices. Wasn't she also a "very good friend" of the clintons?
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 1:46:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2002 1:47:29 PM EST by McUZI]
I used to get mad when I read these posts, and the calls to ban guns coming from the mindless hive. But I really don't care anymore. Ya want 'em, come get 'em. That simple. March your million moms on my lawn. I don't have a million rounds on hand, but i'm sure after the first dozen or so of ya go down, y'all will run.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 2:11:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By DarkHelmet:
Originally Posted By Energizer: When I talk with people at work, or wherever, and they know very little about guns, they freak out when I tell them I have ONE, then they really freak out when they hear I have more than one, and they imply that I am crazy, psycho, need help, etc. Then they argue with me stating that since they are not registered and I don't have a permit, that I am breaking the law, etc., etc. (you can't register them in Texas and don;t need a permit except for CCWs!) For people who know very little about guns, except for what they see in the movies, they need to learn the facts before jumping to conclusions abd believing what they see on TV. Then when they hear I have a "military-style" firearm, they really go nuts! I hate to break it to them, but many firearms and accessories used by the military (past/present), were developed by and for civilians first... Then they try to argue about full-auto and silenced weapons... they really freak out when they finally believe that they are legal to own in Texas.
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Yeah I love that. A couple of my coworkers are shooters... one has an AR-15 too. And others in my office are neutral, leaning toward anti. I'm not sure there is really anyone here is extreme anti... the one that is closest is more ignorant than anything else. Anyhow.... they always imply that because I own several that someday I'll snap and go shooting through the office.... it downright offends me and I told them this. One of my coworkers I actually filed a harassment claim against because of his inappropriate refrences to me and shooting up the office after I repeatidly told him to stop. Every time I buy a new gun too, my friends comment, "You're crazy!" but not two sentences later comes, "IF the S ever HTF I'm coming to your house!" So what am I? Crazy of just prudent in planning for possibilities!?!?!
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Same here... I'll buy one and some will, "What are you going to do with all those guns?" or "Why another one?". All BS. Funny thing is, a co-worker was having lunch with a friend and the friend asked him what would happen if anyone "went Postal" at the office. The co-worker said, "I'm running to see Jay... he'll take care of him." Like you, DarkHelmet, they say you're crazy, but you can bet they'll be calling you when that time comes. What's that word??? Oh yeah, hypocrites!
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 2:15:31 PM EST
Here are some interesting points: The Erfurt killer had a Glock and a pump shotgun. He killed every one of his victims with the Glock - most were precision headshots. So they banned pump-action weapons. And Donna Dees-Thomases thinks this was a "common-sense measure." You'll note she has no comment about the fact the Germans [b]didn't[/b] ban handguns. Ali Boumelhem was convicted of trying to ship two (2) shotguns, several hundred rounds of shotgun ammo, and AR-15 [i]parts[/i] to Lebanon - where you can purchase an AK-47 on the street. Big-time gunrunner, wasn't he? His brother was acquitted of similar charges. For some reason, you never hear those details.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 2:47:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By freeride21a: hmm, next is lever guns then bolt guns...i see a trend. yeah some people are horrified when they find out i own guns, and they become even more when they find out i started shooting them at 5 years old and got my own at 12. i am pure encarnate evil in some peoples eyes, just wait till im the one that has to save them!
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Bolt gun? Oh, you mean high-powered sniper rifle.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 5:15:14 PM EST
[b]
At the state level, stronger gun legislation is caught in a tug-of-war between widespread public support and gun industry opposition.
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[/b] She really is confused. In reality it is more like widespread public opposition without any gun industry support.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 5:41:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Goet: The gunshow was stateside and not in Lebanon. Still, it is moronic to buy expensive semi-auto firearms in the U.S., get backgrounded, and ship them when you can easily obtain FA weapons in the third world hole of your choice.
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A lot of would-be terrorists and islamic fanatics reside in the US. Avtomat Doctor, one of the moderators on Campy's AK forum is a muslim who would invite al-quaeda sympathizers from London to go shooting and training with him in Arizona. Fewer red flags go up if your passport is stamped with US-UK stamps, instead of UK-Lebanon-Pakistan stamps I guess, and generally a lot less dangerous. Natually, the solution isn't to ban gunshows....it's to pull racial and terrorist profiling at airports. But naturally, the federal government doesn't do that, because it might offend the terrorists.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 6:50:10 PM EST
It seems thay forgot we still have those bullet spraying assault weapons and bullet spraying semi-automatic weapons. now tell me why a ban on pump-actions would do anything? I can shoot faster with a semi-auto the a pump LOL Thay never stop amazing me with there stupidity.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 6:58:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By freeride21a: hmm, next is lever guns then bolt guns...i see a trend.
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dont you mean hi powered sniper rifles?? seriously. if they ban my pump gun, i welcome them to try and take it. that would be a definate line in the sand. i will shoot.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 7:17:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2002 7:18:38 PM EST by DefMan]
All this talk of pump is begining to make me want to buy this now... [img]http://www.dpmsinc.com/img/9.gif[/img] [url]http://www.dpmsinc.com/products/p_pump_rifle.html[/url]
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 7:25:32 PM EST
or maybe more to this tune [img]http://www.dpmsinc.com/img/002.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 8:45:29 PM EST
Why dont these people move onto something else like getting rid of Taxes, Hell everybody would be on thier side then. Also The way this article talks about how nasty gunshows are, This article came from the Detroit Free Press, Most of the gun shows atleast in my area, In order to get a table you need to Have a FFL, And I am not exactly clear on the law but i am pretty sure a FFL has to have background check on anyone buying a gun. These people want every short of squirt guns banned.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 8:51:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Energizer: When I talk with people at work, or wherever, and they know very little about guns, they freak out when I tell them I have ONE, then they really freak out when they hear I have more than one, and they imply that I am crazy, psycho, need help, etc. Then they argue with me stating that since they are not registered and I don't have a permit, that I am breaking the law, etc., etc. (you can't register them in Texas and don;t need a permit except for CCWs!) For people who know very little about guns, except for what they see in the movies, they need to learn the facts before jumping to conclusions abd believing what they see on TV. Then when they hear I have a "military-style" firearm, they really go nuts! I hate to break it to them, but many firearms and accessories used by the military (past/present), were developed by and for civilians first... Then they try to argue about full-auto and silenced weapons... they really freak out when they finally believe that they are legal to own in Texas.
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Jesus, what kind of field do you work in?
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 9:05:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2002 9:18:58 PM EST by NYPatriot]
Long before I started this thread, all of us @ AR15.com already understood that the long term goal of the MMM & the "Brady Bunch" is the complete elimination of firearms in the civilian population, regardless of weapon type, method of function, caliber, or appearance. The gun owners that really need to be shown the truth about "reasonable restrictions", and the "for the children" mentality are the ones who exclusively frequent hunting and sport shooting web sites... you know, the great hoard of apathetic and uninformed gun owners who won't care about the 2nd. Amendment until it is their particular ox being gored! By virtue of the MMM tipping their hand, we have been afforded a rare opportunity to spread the word to gun owners who are not on the front lines of the struggle to maintain and restore our 2nd. Amendment freedoms. [b]My suggestion to every board member here is to join as many hunting or sport shooting web sites as you can find on the web, and become an out spoken, articulate, and uncompromising advocate of the right to bear [i]ALL TYPES[/i] of firearms![/b] Use this MMM article as an in to join other boards. Cut & paste it, and then follow it up with other postings that might wake American gun owners out of their political slumber! The guns that you save may be your own!
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 10:32:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 10:34:28 PM EST
it'll never pass, after all semi-autos are clearly a bigger threat then a pump action, dont even worry about it... waste of time. and even if thay ban pumps, in ten years some gay ban sunset crap will happen, WHO COMES UP WITH THIS SHIT??
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 5:09:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By MC_Man:
Originally Posted By DarkHelmet:
Originally Posted By Energizer: ...Every time I buy a new gun too, my friends comment, "You're crazy!" but not two sentences later comes, "IF the S ever HTF I'm coming to your house!" So what am I? Crazy of just prudent in planning for possibilities!?!?!
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...Funny thing is, a co-worker was having lunch with a friend and the friend asked him what would happen if anyone "went Postal" at the office. The co-worker said, "I'm running to see Jay... he'll take care of him." Like you, DarkHelmet, they say you're crazy, but you can bet they'll be calling you when that time comes. What's that word??? Oh yeah, hypocrites!
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Interesting that this happens all the time. My fiance' has a friend who is rabidly anti-gun. We get into heated discussions all the time. But on 9/11, when she realized that personal safety is a personal responsiblity she ended up telling my better half that if the SHTF, she was coming over to my house. Funny that. Isn't it?
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