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Posted: 9/26/2004 5:41:28 PM EST
www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2815906


Sept. 26, 2004, 2:16PM

Teen killed in father's home in apparent accident


Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

Houston police are investigating the shooting death of a teenager at 3919 West Hampton Saturday about 10:20 p.m.

The victim, Eli D. Johnson, 18, of 3919 West Hampton in Houston, suffered a gunshot wound to the chest in what police describe as an accidental shooting.

The teenager was in his father's home, where the son had not lived for several months. When his father, Forrest E. Johnson, 49, returned home, he found the door open and got a gun from his truck. He shot at a dark figure inside the home, police said.

Eli Johnson was shot once in the chest and later died at Ben Taub Hospital.

The investigation is ongoing and will be referred to the Harris County District Attorney's office.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:47:57 PM EST
Accidental my ass.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:48:37 PM EST
The kid didn't live there. He should have known better than to be there unannounced. What was the guy supposed to think? How long was he supposed to hesitate? Tragically stupid on the part of the kid.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:49:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 5:50:19 PM EST by guns762]
Sounds to me like the son was there to help himself. Why were the lights off? Door open? Sounds to me like a thief.

Guy should have had a light.

FYI Guys, if nothing else, Wal-Mart sells a Dysol(sp I think?) small single AAA LED light for 5.95. It has a rear push button switch, and is small enough to fit in your pocket, with out you even knowing. I have three of them and love them. When I'm CCWing, I always have one in my pocket. You will be surprised by how well it works. It is very bright. Not Sure-fire bright, but still works very well, smaller, and batterys are easy to find.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:56:26 PM EST
Broke one of the basic rules: Be sure of your target. If you're not, you don't pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:59:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 6:02:09 PM EST by jimmyjoebob]

Originally Posted By Hoppy:
Broke one of the basic rules: Be sure of your target. If you're not, you don't pull the trigger.



sounds to me like he did things right, he identified a burglar in his home and squarely nailed him, it matters not if there is a blood relation. The kid did not live there, not was he their to spend time with dad( lights off, door open) what is left out is that where is the kids car? If it was in the driveway, then dad would have realized there was no threat.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:59:59 PM EST
Exactly. If possible, no shots should be fired in the home when dark without a light. A Sure Fire Z2 would have done worlds of good for everyone in this situation!
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:02:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hoppy:
Broke one of the basic rules: Be sure of your target. If you're not, you don't pull the trigger.



I don't know about that.

The door was open, lights out, shadowy figure there he wasn't expecting. Most people would assume...bad guy. I'm sure that won't make dad feel any better, but who here would think different?

As clean cut said, the light would have been nice.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:06:45 PM EST
When I was an "unruly teen" (to what extent that I was) and came home late at night, I always made sure to make it obvious who I was when I came in so my dad didn't ventilate me. Even he had a flashlight though.....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:11:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:13:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By tc6969:
While you guys are monday morning quarterbacking think about this.

In a couple of days this guy will go to a church, look down into a coffin and see his child laying there.

If this isnt a fathers worst nightmare I dont know what is!

I cant say what I would have done or what he should have done cause I wasnt there!




Agree 100%
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:16:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By guns762:
Sounds to me like the son was there to help himself. Why were the lights off? Door open? Sounds to me like a thief.

Guy should have had a light.

FYI Guys, if nothing else, Wal-Mart sells a Dysol(sp I think?) small single AAA LED light for 5.95. It has a rear push button switch, and is small enough to fit in your pocket, with out you even knowing. I have three of them and love them. When I'm CCWing, I always have one in my pocket. You will be surprised by how well it works. It is very bright. Not Sure-fire bright, but still works very well, smaller, and batterys are easy to find.



is it this one???


www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=157143
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:17:07 PM EST
I read about a similar incident in the paper a few years ago. An 14 year old girl skips school. Dad comes home early. She panics and hides in the closet. Dad hears noises in the closet, gets a pistol and checks it out. He opens the door, she jumps, he shoots and kills her.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:19:54 PM EST
It has to be quite painful to kill your own child but before all blame is placed on the father just what the hell was the boy doing there and why didn't he identify himself to the father? Any chance this might have been a crackhead ripping off pop for dope money?

I will wait for more details before I condemn anyone but I do send my deepest sympathies to the father who must be suffering terribly.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:20:41 PM EST
I wont argue whether or not he should have blown away his own son.


Teen killed in father's home in apparent accident

Not an accident. The old man meant to shoot him. He did it on purpose. An accident is when your gun goes off ALL BY ITS SELF. It turns into an incident when you screw up.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:21:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By jimmyjoebob:

Originally Posted By Hoppy:
Broke one of the basic rules: Be sure of your target. If you're not, you don't pull the trigger.



sounds to me like he did things right, he identified a burglar in his home and squarely nailed him, it matters not if there is a blood relation. The kid did not live there, not was he their to spend time with dad( lights off, door open) what is left out is that where is the kids car? If it was in the driveway, then dad would have realized there was no threat.



He didn't identify a burglar. He identified a person. Sounds like from what I read, he had not yet determined a reasonable threat. And should probably have either backed off to seek cover and call the police, or order the unknown subject out at gunpoint until determined a threat or not.

What if the son had actually come by to rip him off, then fled leaving the door open, and a neighbor had called in to report the door open at the house, and the police had shown up to check on it when the owner returned home and shot at them instead of his son??? He ought to be charged with 2nd degree murder and let a jury decide if he was reasonable or not.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:23:15 PM EST
That dad was in the wrong, you just dont shoot into your house without first identifying your target
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:24:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 6:25:46 PM EST by Paul]
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:28:14 PM EST
In AZ the shooter could be charged if the intruder was not armed. You cannot use deadly force to protect property.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:30:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
In AZ the shooter could be charged if the intruder was not armed. You cannot use deadly force to protect property.




in Texas you can
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:33:55 PM EST
I may be overly nice, and willfully endangering myself. But if I had a bead on someone in my house in the dark, I would yell at them to identify themselves first, and THEN consider shooting if they did not, or reacted in some way that was threatening.

Not sure I woulc immediately blast away at someone, even if it was in my house. It could be an injured neighbor, looking for help, or any number of other things that do not immediately threaten my life.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:36:04 PM EST
Dumb mother fucker, okay you guys saying door open no lights. kid was up to no good. What if the kid had just arrived and perhaps he didn't have a car maybe he was dropped off and hadn't had time to turn on the lights? Have you never went into a dark room and fumble for a light switch. HE NO DOUBT HAD A KEY TO THE HOUSE SINCE THE DOOR WASN'T KICKED IN. So how the fuck are some of you fucking idots going to say stupid shit about the kid and the dads relationship simply because he wasn't living there at the time... Do you not live with your parents, So I am sure you go and visit them from time to time?

In my book your fucking idiots...

The dad was trigger happy. He shouldn't have just seen a figure and shot, just not the right thing to do.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:38:59 PM EST
You know, you tell people to get a light, and they tell you this kind of thing never happens.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:42:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
I read about a similar incident in the paper a few years ago. An 14 year old girl skips school. Dad comes home early. She panics and hides in the closet. Dad hears noises in the closet, gets a pistol and checks it out. He opens the door, she jumps, he shoots and kills her.



Actually, she was SUPPOSED to be spending the night at a friends house, but snuck back into the house at night, after her parents went to bed.
She made some noise, and hid in the closet. Her father came to investigate the noise, because he and his wife thought that their daughter was at a friends house. She jumped out of the closet to suprise him, and her father shot her.

I had to watch the interview in my CCH class.

Heartbreaking.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:44:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 6:46:30 PM EST by clean_cut]
This is my home defense pistol.

HK USPC .45 with Surefire X200 LED.

(Click on thumb for larger pic).




I'm all for identifying the target.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:48:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 6:51:06 PM EST by Sukebe]
Hydguy, that's the one. Memory fades.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:50:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
In AZ the shooter could be charged if the intruder was not armed. You cannot use deadly force to protect property.




in Texas you can



You can in Illinois as well.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:51:44 PM EST
I dont see the problem. He shot an intruder.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:51:58 PM EST
Boy, I bet that guy feels like shit....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:52:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 6:59:31 PM EST by guns762]

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By guns762:
Sounds to me like the son was there to help himself. Why were the lights off? Door open? Sounds to me like a thief.

Guy should have had a light.

FYI Guys, if nothing else, Wal-Mart sells a Dysol(sp I think?) small single AAA LED light for 5.95. It has a rear push button switch, and is small enough to fit in your pocket, with out you even knowing. I have three of them and love them. When I'm CCWing, I always have one in my pocket. You will be surprised by how well it works. It is very bright. Not Sure-fire bright, but still works very well, smaller, and batterys are easy to find.



is it this one???


www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=157143


Nope. It is much smaller than that, but IT IS a Dorcy. That one uses 2 AAs. and is about twice as big.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:53:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1776:
I dont see the problem. He shot an intruder.




Legally, I don't think they have grounds to charge him in Texas, but he still feels like shit, I bet.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:53:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
The kid didn't live there. He should have known better than to be there unannounced. What was the guy supposed to think? How long was he supposed to hesitate? Tragically stupid on the part of the kid.



Wow, I wouldn't blame the kid as much as the father for popping an unidentified target.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:54:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1776:
I dont see the problem. He shot an intruder.


Your a fucking asshole, go grab that dildo maybe you can become a bigger one.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:05:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
what police describe as an accidental shooting...





Point of fact. It is not an accidental shooting. It was a deliberate shooting resulting from improper target identification.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:22:32 PM EST
Sept. 26, 2004, 11:35PM

Man kills son, mistaking him for burglar, police say
Death is second such case in city in past six weeks


By MIKE GLENN
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

A southwest Houston man shot and killed his 18-year-old son late Saturday after apparently mistaking him for a burglar, police said.

Eli Johnson, 18, was shot shortly before 10:30 p.m. inside his family's home in the 3900 block of Westhampton. His death comes about six weeks after Alejandra Hernandez, 5, was fatally shot by her stepfather inside their northeast Houston home after he mistook her for an intruder.

Neighbors were shocked by Saturday night's fatal shooting.

"It's a very sad thing," said Mike Kratz, who lives across the street. "It's an accident and can happen to anybody."

Forrest E. Johnson, 49, told detectives he became suspicious when he came home and noticed the partially open front door.

Police said Johnson returned to his pickup to retrieve his handgun, believing his home was being burglarized. When Johnson tried to push open the front door, someone inside pulled the doorknob at the same time, police said.

Johnson spotted someone standing just feet from him and fired a shot. The bullet struck his son in the chest. He was rushed to Ben Taub General Hospital where he later died, police said.

Johnson told detectives his son had moved out of the family home several months ago. The victim, however, still kept a key to the house, police said.

"He wasn't living there on a continuous basis, but he was still their son," said HPD Sgt. W.P. Booth of the department's homicide division. "His parents just weren't expecting him to be there."

Police said Johnson was startled when the front door suddenly opened.

He did not expect to find his son in his home and assumed he was a burglar.

"There was no indication what he (the victim) was doing there," Booth said.

Booth said he didn't know where the victim had been living.

Forrest Johnson and other family members could not be reached for comment Sunday.

Kratz, who moved into the neighborhood last week, said he was asleep when the shooting occurred and didn't hear anything.

"It was very quiet," he said.

Johnson was questioned at the scene but not taken into custody. Police said the case will be referred to a Harris County grand jury.

Kratz said he thinks his neighbor should not face any criminal charges in the fatal shooting.

"I'm against punishing this man. This man has bigger problems," Kratz said. "He is punished for life."

The incident has similarities to another deadly case of mistaken identity — the fatal shooting of Alejandra.

In that incident, Agun Ortega Pina told Houston police he went for his gun Aug. 15 when he heard suspicious noises about 1 a.m. inside the family's home in the 2800 block of Kentucky.

Pina told detectives that he and his wife shared a bed with their three daughters because the only other bedroom in their small home was being rented to a family friend.

Police said Hernandez may have gotten up to use the bathroom and was returning to her parents' bed when she was mistaken for a burglar.

The noise roused Pina from his sleep. He grabbed a pistol from the closet and fired when the girl opened the bedroom door.

She was struck in the chest and taken to LBJ Hospital where she later died.

The case against Pina was referred to a Harris County grand jury, but no charges were filed.


www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2816707


Update on the story.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:31:16 PM EST
I can understand the grand jury no-billing the 18yo killing but the little girl getting shot was extremely wreckless. They had a house full of people! What the hell? And to be sleeping with the kids and having a loaded pistol nearby? The SOB deserves some jail time. No doubt in my mind.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:32:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By guns762:

Originally Posted By Hoppy:
Broke one of the basic rules: Be sure of your target. If you're not, you don't pull the trigger.



I don't know about that.

The door was open, lights out, shadowy figure there he wasn't expecting. Most people would assume...bad guy. I'm sure that won't make dad feel any better, but who here would think different?




Me. If I'm not 100% sure of my target I don't pull the trigger. This wasn't a war zone and I'm not John Wayne.

I would have sought cover, drew my weapon and called 911 on the cell. This man had no business clearing his house and this example is one good reason why.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:37:21 PM EST
What you out of staters don't realize, is that Texas law specifically says you can use deadly force to stop theft of your property at night.


While some of you may question the tactics (ie. light to ID target/ assess threat), it was a good shoot. Not a great one, but a good one.

Like y'all said, he's gotta live with it anyways.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:40:53 PM EST
Turns out this is not so much a pistol light issue as it is a trigger-happy untrained gunowner issue. This guy gives gun owners a bad name. His shoot is within the law, and I support that law, but he obviously did not think about what he would do when in this situation.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:50:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Turns out this is not so much a pistol light issue as it is a trigger-happy untrained gunowner issue. This guy gives gun owners a bad name. His shoot is within the law, and I support that law, but he obviously did not think about what he would do when in this situation.



Well, I think the trigger happy is a bit much...

But BEEG +1 on the untrained "owner" as opposed to "trained shooter". Folks, well, basically everywhere think their CCW class is "training". It's not. It's more of a legal update than anything.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 11:05:08 PM EST
I think there might be more to this story.

Hypothetical: The boy got kicked out by his dad a few months earlier. He knew dad would not be home and broke in to steal stuff so he could buy some crack.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 11:06:30 PM EST
Very, very sad.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 11:22:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 11:26:06 PM EST by ishoot2live]

Originally Posted By Hoppy:
Broke one of the basic rules: Be sure of your target. If you're not, you don't pull the trigger.



+1+++

JEFF COOPER’S RULES FOR GUN SAFETY

From Pages 8-10 of The Modern Technique of the Pistol, by Greg Morrison, Gunsite Press, Paulden, Arizona, ISBN 0-9621342-3-6, Library of Congress Number 91-72644, $40

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it; e.g. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance.

All guns are always loaded - period!

This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!"

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
Rule III is violated most anytime the uneducated person handles a firearm. Whether on TV, in the theaters, or at the range, people seem fascinated with having their finger on the trigger. Never stand or walk around with your finger on the trigger. It is unprofessional, dangerous, and, perhaps most damaging to the psyche, it is klutzy looking. Never fire a shot unless the sights are superimposed on the target and you have made a conscious decision to fire. Firing an unaligned pistol in a fight gains nothing. If you believe that the defensive pistol is only an intimidation tool - not something to be used - carry blanks, or better yet, reevaluate having one around. If you are going to launch a projectile, it had best be directed purposely. Danger abounds if you allow your finger to dawdle inside the trigger guard. As soon as the sights leave the target, the trigger-finger leaves the trigger and straightens alongside the frame. Since the hand normally prefers to work as a unit - as in grasping - separating the function of the trigger-finger from the rest of the hand takes effort. The five-finger grasp is a deeply programmed reflex. Under sufficient stress, and with the finger already placed on the trigger, an unexpected movement, misstep or surprise could result in a negligent discharge. Speed cannot be gained from such a premature placement of the trigger-finger. Bringing the sights to bear on the target, whether from the holster or the Guard Position, takes more time than that required for moving the trigger finger an inch or so to the trigger.

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything you have not positively identified. Be aware of your surroundings, whether on the range or in a fight. Do not assume anything. Know what you are doing.


SUMMARY
Make these rules a part of your character. Never compromise them. Improper gunhandling results from ignorance and improper role modeling, such as handling your gun like your favorite actor does. Education can cure this. You can make a difference by following these gunhandling rules and insisting that those around you do the same. Set the example. Who knows what tragedies you, or someone you influence, may prevent?


Link Posted: 9/26/2004 11:44:18 PM EST
You think that's bad? In my neck of the woods, a veteran Sheriff's Officer shot his daughter as she was sneaking back into the house late one night. I can't believe that he didn't have a light in order to identify his target. But, then again, how many people would feel the need to identify someone who is breaking into their home?


Edited to add: Officer's daughter was not killed; only sustained a superficial wound, IIRC.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 11:52:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 11:53:18 PM EST by NightWatchman]
I don't understand why nobody would verbally challenge a shadowy figue in a circumstance like this, like "DON'T MOVE OR YOU DIE"
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:17:23 AM EST
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By 1776:
I dont see the problem. He shot an intruder.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yo, 1776, if you don't see the problem you need to keep your hands in plain view and slowly step away from the friggin' crack pipe.

Sheesh... The gene pool is still full of em' isn't it?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:24:25 AM EST
heard a wise man say "can't shoot what you cant identify." and i agree

sure, the kid wasnt supposed to be there but what self respecting gun owner just starts shooting - yea, real responsible.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:06:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By 1776:
I dont see the problem. He shot an intruder.


Your a fucking asshole, go grab that dildo maybe you can become a bigger one.







WOW. That was an intelligent thought out response.

BTW when you typed the board code size=2 were you thinking of your little dick?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:36:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:35:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
I can understand the grand jury no-billing the 18yo killing but the little girl getting shot was extremely wreckless. They had a house full of people! What the hell? And to be sleeping with the kids and having a loaded pistol nearby? The SOB deserves some jail time. No doubt in my mind.




While I agree that the case involving the little girl should be looked into (I find it hard to believe that you can mistake a 5 year old kid for an adult, even in low light), a lot of gun owners have loaded pistols at the ready at night even with children in the house. WHat good is an unloaded pistol? YOu gonna shout bang at an intruder and hope it scares them away?

I have a Streamlight M3 and M6, and keep one on my Glock at night, and have a Z2 as an additional source of light.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:38:55 AM EST
Fire arms safety rule #4: Know your target... and its back stop.
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